What next for Bangkok's soapy massage parlours? Raid on Nataree to lead to bigger crackdown?

[Hiyaall]

What next for Bangkok's soapy massage parlours? Raid on Nataree to lead to small fry or the bigger fish?

Image: Manager Online

BANGKOK: -- Monday's raid on the well known Nataree massage parlour in Rachadapisek, Bangkok, could mark a turning point in the industry.

One of the largest of blind eyes has been cast on the "Ap Ob Nuat" or body to body massage industry reported Manager Online.

The closure of the Nataree that operates openly for locals and tourists alike and is owned by a well known public figure will be watched with interest.

The "small fry" whose names appear in handwritten payment lists published in the Thai press will be sought, say police. Prosecutions may follow.

But much larger fish are behind the scenes. The owner of Nataree is known by his initial only as "Mr K" (Nay K - the first letter of the Thai alphabet). He is more commonly referred to as "Sia L" (the word Sia is used for big business owners and wealthy large scale merchants in particular).

Sia L. has been in the sex trade business since the days of the infamous Bangkok Tea Houses many of which offered very cheap sex mostly catering to the Thai market. These were very prevalent in Chinatown in particular in the 1980s. When this business started to die out Sia L. moved increasingly into the body massage business.

A large number of these businesses still operate openly just metres from Nataree as well as in other areas of Bangkok. One or two have closed in recent years but many stay open.

Nataree has previously had conflicts over proximity to educational establishments after legislation was introduced. Sia L is also reputed to have been involved in the purchase of an apartment block in Chok Chai 4, Lat Prao for use as a massage parlour and casino but which foundered due to conflicts with other leading figures.

Sia L reputedly owns other massage places in Bangkok, however.

The raid at Nataree comes after complaints from the NVADER group that has offices in New Zealand and SE Asia. It's stated aim is to "set people free" from sex trafficking. It is a charitable trust and non governmental organization with a loosely Christian base. It includes ex NZ policemen.

Following the raid it has emerged that Nataree was employing several underage sex workers as well as foreigners. Ledgers detailing payments to third parties were seized.

These could lead to the seizure of assets of those involved.

But as the government seeks to address criticism of their record in human trafficking issues the real question is how high will the investigation go.

Following up on complaints from an international NGO may be just the start of a wider operation though skeptics will say that Nataree will be open again shortly with business as usual.

Source: Manager Online

-- 2016-06-08

Ok...well I guess I'll be the non Thai hating voice here. It seems to me, if there is going to be any attempt to "clean up" Thailand without sacrificing the sex industry, you would start by making sure all the ladies are there voluntarily and they are not underage or controlled by foreigners.

There may be other forces at work here, maybe they did not pay their tea mony or something, but in my little utopian mind I would hope there are people trying to making sure there are not teenagers being forced by some pimp like foreigner or Thai to be a soapy massage girl. The bar girls seem so have a lot of freedom that should extend to all sex workers. Human trafficking is no joke, but having never been to soapy I don't really know what the deal is or the forces at work behind the scenes. If I ever go to one, I would rather the girl be there because she wants to make money, not because some mafia is forcing her to be there.

Just my two cents even if they might be nieve.

[ratcatcher]

There is way way too much bride money being received at the top to ever shut down the Thai sex industry, not to mention the billions paid by sex tourists & expats.

There is way way too much bride money being received...."

I think you are confusing Sin Sod with Tea Money.

[cyberfarang]

There is way way too much bride money being received at the top to ever shut down the Thai sex industry, not to mention the billions paid by sex tourists & expats.

There is way way too much bride money being received...."

I think you are confusing Sin Sod with Tea Money.

Not really, just that one is for short time and the other is for as long as the money lasts.

[tukkytuktuk]

Nvader wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvader

Say no more!

Case solved.

The caricature of thai prostitution in the western media is unfortunately marked by ignorance and stereotypes.

This gooders sometimes do not even know what they cause of harm in their zeal.

And from all massage places, this place probably has the least chance of any human trafficking.

The working conditions for the girls were safe and clean. And now?

The raid does not alter the situation for the girls that they must earn money for their boozing fathers, card gambling mothers or for the family debs.

So now the girls are forced into filthy, dark street work without any safety.

One of the top 5 massage parlors in Thailand busted for human trafficking, clap your hands, a round of applause. Tomacht8 you are so right when you suggest that this will force the sex industry to go underground. No book keeping, no working standards, nothing but criminal Mafioso run businesses with girls locked in dungeon like conditions. Remember the war on drugs in the U.S during the Regan administration, same bs is going on here. Glory today, but misery in the near distant future. Why not legalize prostitution in Thailand, it's no secret to anyone, any more. Give working girls rights, sex worker's are doing a job, a hazardous job. The government can regulate their work and conditions. The workers can contribute to the economy by paying tax like everyone else. But no, no, this won't happen because the wives of politicians are to high up in their ivory towers to ever concider this idea and mock their husbands that would ever dream of such a scheme.

[marcofunny]

I think they didn't have enough cash this month to make the usual payoffs and somebody high up got pissed.

[nodomino]

Not to worry, all will be well again once the relevant parties will reach amicable arrangements,

places like this one don't get raided for nothing, a message or a warning was a foot here...

I hope there is an amicable agreement. Reformers, particularly reformers of a Christian bent have been a stain on human history where ever their hypocrisy has been given rein. Mark my words. In time they will be found to be frauds of the First Water, just another among the innumerable tribes of charlatans that inhabit the netherworld of manufactured sin.

[tomacht8]

Nvader wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvader

Say no more!

Case solved.

The caricature of thai prostitution in the western media is unfortunately marked by ignorance and stereotypes.

This gooders sometimes do not even know what they cause of harm in their zeal.

And from all massage places, this place probably has the least chance of any human trafficking.

The working conditions for the girls were safe and clean. And now?

The raid does not alter the situation for the girls that they must earn money for their boozing fathers, card gambling mothers or for the family debs.

So now the girls are forced into filthy, dark street work without any safety.

One of the top 5 massage parlors in Thailand busted for human trafficking, clap your hands, a round of applause. Tomacht8 you are so right when you suggest that this will force the sex industry to go underground. No book keeping, no working standards, nothing but criminal Mafioso run businesses with girls locked in dungeon like conditions. Remember the war on drugs in the U.S during the Regan administration, same bs is going on here. Glory today, but misery in the near distant future. Why not legalize prostitution in Thailand, it's no secret to anyone, any more. Give working girls rights, sex worker's are doing a job, a hazardous job. The government can regulate their work and conditions. The workers can contribute to the economy by paying tax like everyone else. But no, no, this won't happen because the wives of politicians are to high up in their ivory towers to ever concider this idea and mock their husbands that would ever dream of such a scheme.

Can only agree with you 100%.

And to regulat it, has nothing to do with loss of face.

Every country in the world has its form of prostitution.

All Prohibitions in the oldest profession in the world, promote only shadow economy, extortion, corruption and criminal structures.

This is what we can see here.

Pay for the exception.

Come in this exclusion zone then emerge all dark figures.

The other way to legalize the inevitable bustle and the government control it necessarily, is the better way.

Not to make the prostitutes as victims of extortion.

And exactly that takes place here.

[FarangJon]

The cops and armys cash for whiskey finished,,

no problem, just one more raid and everything will be fine again

Big news here haha

[mpyre]

Nvader wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvader

Say no more!

Case solved.

Read the Nvader profile and you will find another organization in it for the money...they collect from many sources, including a number of US government agencies...a great business with a wonderful, politically correct agenda...a can't lose concept!

[ozyjon]

I can't recognize any of these girls,

let me have another look.

[cyberfarang]

Nvader wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvader

Say no more!

Case solved.

The caricature of thai prostitution in the western media is unfortunately marked by ignorance and stereotypes.

This gooders sometimes do not even know what they cause of harm in their zeal.

And from all massage places, this place probably has the least chance of any human trafficking.

The working conditions for the girls were safe and clean. And now?

The raid does not alter the situation for the girls that they must earn money for their boozing fathers, card gambling mothers or for the family debs.

So now the girls are forced into filthy, dark street work without any safety.

One of the top 5 massage parlors in Thailand busted for human trafficking, clap your hands, a round of applause. Tomacht8 you are so right when you suggest that this will force the sex industry to go underground. No book keeping, no working standards, nothing but criminal Mafioso run businesses with girls locked in dungeon like conditions. Remember the war on drugs in the U.S during the Regan administration, same bs is going on here. Glory today, but misery in the near distant future. Why not legalize prostitution in Thailand, it's no secret to anyone, any more. Give working girls rights, sex worker's are doing a job, a hazardous job. The government can regulate their work and conditions. The workers can contribute to the economy by paying tax like everyone else. But no, no, this won't happen because the wives of politicians are to high up in their ivory towers to ever concider this idea and mock their husbands that would ever dream of such a scheme.

It will never happen as there are no incentives for this to happen, because there are too many high ups, criminal gangs, companies and big bosses creaming off the profits into their own pockets. Better for them to continue this as a racket whereas profits are paid into individual bank accounts rather then a regulated legal industry where everything has to be declared and taxes paid directly to the government. And this is what makes the whole Thai sex industry unsavory, not the sex workers themselves.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Let the implosion begin...

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

I was wondering where all the white skin girls worked and now I know for the third time...

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Hide those faces so your mommas will know what they already know. Only the guilty hide their faces.

[gemguy]

Have you ever been to a numbers hotel? Stayed at one for a week, and others for a few days, they are cheap and play porn no girls on offer, just cars turning with couples in, I'm sure one there against her will could have run off or sought help. If you have proof lets see it.

Yes...at one time back in the day while my friend also stayed at Hotel 23 on Sukumvite Road.... back in the day.

The room was 100 baht per day for long term stay, say 2 weeks or more while the friendly manager / pimp offered my friend a different girl everyday for additional 50 Baht a day.

Most of the girls were Laotian girls...all young and all of them not there because they decided to be a prostitute and working at the Hotel 23

Some of the numbered hotels have evolved into hotels or rooms to rent by the hour ( short time rooms ) or by the day or weekly but now there are no girls there on the premises...but if you want a girl they most certainly will arrange one for you ...but believe me, there are still plenty of Numbered Hotels around Bangkok that remain as Brothels.

Cheers

[cyberfarang]

Have you ever been to a numbers hotel? Stayed at one for a week, and others for a few days, they are cheap and play porn no girls on offer, just cars turning with couples in, I'm sure one there against her will could have run off or sought help. If you have proof lets see it.

Yes...at one time back in the day while my friend also stayed at Hotel 23 on Sukumvite Road.... back in the day.

The room was 100 baht per day for long term stay, say 2 weeks or more while the friendly manager / pimp offered my friend a different girl everyday for additional 50 Baht a day.

Most of the girls were Laotian girls...all young and all of them not there because they decided to be a prostitute and working at the Hotel 23

Some of the numbered hotels have evolved into hotels or rooms to rent by the hour ( short time rooms ) or by the day or weekly but now there are no girls there on the premises...but if you want a girl they most certainly will arrange one for you ...but believe me, there are still plenty of Numbered Hotels around Bangkok that remain as Brothels.

Cheers

Not for an additional 50 baht they won`t. When was this, back during the period of the the Burmese–Siamese wars?

[foxteen]

A black day for the sexpat community in Thailand

Do you not know that those places are predominately for THAI men to frequent?

Thailand sex trade ..99% of these girls knows what they doing. There places for Thai man only and farangs and farangs Thais..so the market still open and will ever be. Cann't stop the music. Demand still higher

[Strangebrew]

That is brib list payments the missing payments are reason for raid back in business when arears paid.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Strangebrew

[soalbundy]

I think they didn't have enough cash this month to make the usual payoffs and somebody high up got pissed.

didn't work too well then because 4 officers have been moved to inactive posts

[gemguy]

Have you ever been to a numbers hotel? Stayed at one for a week, and others for a few days, they are cheap and play porn no girls on offer, just cars turning with couples in, I'm sure one there against her will could have run off or sought help. If you have proof lets see it.

Yes...at one time back in the day while my friend also stayed at Hotel 23 on Sukumvite Road.... back in the day.

The room was 100 baht per day for long term stay, say 2 weeks or more while the friendly manager / pimp offered my friend a different girl everyday for additional 50 Baht a day.

Most of the girls were Laotian girls...all young and all of them not there because they decided to be a prostitute and working at the Hotel 23

Some of the numbered hotels have evolved into hotels or rooms to rent by the hour ( short time rooms ) or by the day or weekly but now there are no girls there on the premises...but if you want a girl they most certainly will arrange one for you ...but believe me, there are still plenty of Numbered Hotels around Bangkok that remain as Brothels.

Cheers

Not for an additional 50 baht they won`t. When was this, back during the period of the the Burmese–Siamese wars?

This was back in 1988 / 1989.

Also, you are not understanding the point.

The girls at the brothels do not have a choice, while it was not their decision concerning the 50 baht...To do or not to do..... for an additional 50 Baht...rather when the Pimp / Manager says do it, then they do it...just like the entrapped slaves that they were in that particular numbered hotel.

The girls do not get the money...the Brothel gets the money and keeps it.

Some Brothels are worse than others while continually indebting the girls in various small mined ways making it nearly impossible for the girls to pay down the debt that is owed and extracted out of the girls by way of sex services performed with the Brothel clients.

Cheers

[aslimversgwm]

The leaders are serious. They know that the world is taking a closer look at Thailand's reputation for transparency and honesty.

Some big issues in Thailand are being transmitted around the world quickly and it is happening on a daily basis. The government sees this as damaging to the country's image and are trying

to implement restrictions on various social media to slow the flow of negativity.

To be taken seriously, and they desire this, they need to step up to the mark on human rights, health and safety, honesty and transparency of the administration.

They know their credibility is on the line

I do not think it is the Sex Industry that is at issue, many countries have a thriving sex industry, where it is legal or tolerated.

What I think is at issue is that those working in the industry should be at least 18, of sound mind, legal to work in Thailand and not coerced into working in the sex industry.

And they should be paying tax on earnings, but what is at issue more probably is the Mr Big's and corrupt officials who are making billions of Bahts and do not pay any tax on their ill gotten earnings.

A sensible response - at last! Thank you Basil B

[Krataiboy]

well done the authorities for making a serious effort to control this trade.the task is uphill, though, as the industry is deeply entrenched at all levels of society.

A little premature, I would have thought. Time will tell whether the "authorities" are really serious about controlling sex trafficking or just pursuing a personal vendetta through a red mist.

[gemguy]

The leaders are serious. They know that the world is taking a closer look at Thailand's reputation for transparency and honesty.

Some big issues in Thailand are being transmitted around the world quickly and it is happening on a daily basis. The government sees this as damaging to the country's image and are trying

to implement restrictions on various social media to slow the flow of negativity.

To be taken seriously, and they desire this, they need to step up to the mark on human rights, health and safety, honesty and transparency of the administration.

They know their credibility is on the line

I do not think it is the Sex Industry that is at issue, many countries have a thriving sex industry, where it is legal or tolerated.

What I think is at issue is that those working in the industry should be at least 18, of sound mind, legal to work in Thailand and not coerced into working in the sex industry.

And they should be paying tax on earnings, but what is at issue more probably is the Mr Big's and corrupt officials who are making billions of Bahts and do not pay any tax on their ill gotten earnings.

A sensible response - at last! Thank you Basil B

The sex trade and flesh trade has always been a deemed to be sleazy and nefarious undertaking while historically interconnected with corruption practiced by the very people and authorities that are supposed to stop the practice and or shut down the establishments that provide sex for sale throughout history.

The way that the sex trade has evolved throughout history has commonly been far from favorable for most of the people, women mainly, who are providing the sexual services.

In this day and age there are a dozen variations while Thailand has a long list of sex for sale variations and avenues of access.

Yes some ( as in some ) people in positions of authority would like to stop the human trafficking and sexual enslavement aspect of the sex for sale industry but I would surmise they know they are fighting a very steep uphill battle that is basically impossible to stop and or contain....short of an all out war on the sex trade and prostitution.

You have to remember the base of the problem is sex itself while sex is the most fundamental aspect of humanity so they are trying to stop a human desire that is hard to contain.

The way that the sex is achieved is questionable, without a doubt, in a perfect world, but as we can see the act of sex and all that is entailed often includes sex for profit and sex for sale as it is a means and way for some ( as in some ) to make money and make a living...although a highly frowned upon way to make money and deemed sleazy in all societies.

I Believe it exists in every country and it is one of those issues where you have to ask which came first???: "The Chicken or the Egg"

In other words, Was it or is it the people selling their sex for money that comes first or is it the people willing to pay the money that comes first while either way the sex trade and sex for money always has and presently is and will remain so a very convoluted and also a very contentious social issue that will never go away.

You can not stop people from having sex and if the sex comes with compensation in some manner then how can you stop or control people trading sex for monetary compensation or a form of barter trade if there is no money involved...but some form of compensation is understood to be forthcoming for the sexual experience to be provided by the sexual provider.

So...if you were selling your used car for say 200,000 Baht and along comes an attractive women who says: "I will give you 150,000 baht and sex with me for the next month, any which way you want ...and the car is mine after 1 month and written into the contract that has to be obligated by both parties"

Would that be a socially acceptable way to profit from a persons sexuality....either way, for provider or receiver???

Just saying.

Meantime all around you and 7.5 billion people later there is sex and more sex and a LOT of sex going on everywhere..as in "everywhere" you go and the fact that some of it has monetary compensation attached to it and or people make a business out of it should not be a surprise to anyone.

Unfortunately, all too much of all that sexuality comes with nasty implications attached to the sex and seen by way of human trafficking and sexual enslavement and sexual exploitation.

The focus has to be concentrated on those nefarious aspects of sexuality and sex for sale rather than trying to stop people trading sex for money based on their own free will to do so and decisions to continue to participate in the sex for sale industry.

Cheers

[mikebell]

A knock on effect - bars in soi 6 were visited by BIB & told no boom-boom upstairs. You had to take the girl across the road to a short-time 'hotel'. So I've heard. Don't know how long this effect will last.

[jacko45k]

Darn, this is going to put prices up!

[ThailandLOS]

A black day for the sexpat community in Thailand

Do you not know that those places are predominately for THAI men to frequent?

Touchy subject for you I'm sure, but thanks for filling me in on your preferences.

A hooker is a hooker no matter where you meet her- From the popularity of this thread I very much doubt that what you say is true.

Edited June 9, 2016 by ThailandLOS

[PomRakBKK]

None of these girls are trafficked. Its an urban legend. 1 out of 99 might not be there on her own will but the rest is just part of thai culture.

Ever wonder what the girls do after they finish work? They go across the street and pay some 'handsome' thai studs to screw their brains out. Rinse and repeat.

No different in so called 'gentlemen clubs' where the income is quite similar.

No Thai sex worker is going to pay a Thai guy for sex. That's crazy talk son. There are a few women's clubs that have good looking men on supply to "entertain" - but these cater to wealthier, sometimes mature clientele - and are very private.

Massage girls around Ratchada/Petchburi/rama9 tend to head to clubs in the RCA/Ratchada area or to after hours clubs to 1) secure another client, or 2) meet up with client they serviced earlier in the day.

Nevermind - pointless.

Edited June 9, 2016 by PomRakBKK

[brewsterbudgen]

A knock on effect - bars in soi 6 were visited by BIB & told no boom-boom upstairs. You had to take the girl across the road to a short-time 'hotel'. So I've heard. Don't know how long this effect will last.

Previous crackdowns in soi 6 have never usually lasted for long.

[elgordo38]

Alleged records of bribes. Ah ha a little insurance added for just this day. I am sure this will be the end of these types of raids as the raiders names may be in the records unless they get to the records first.

[Sakeopete]

Though I don't condone police receiving bribes from this type of establishment I worry what will happen if the BIB lose their cash cows. The greed and requirement to pay their superiors will not go away if this government makes it too difficult to collect bribes.

The BIB may go the way of their South American counter parts getting involved in kidnapping and extortion of private citizens. Thai culture will not change corruption will always be the norm. I'd rather the BIB take small bribes from motorists and large bribes from illegal business than worry about a family member being kidnapped.