First results in UK's historic referendum on EU membership

[dick dasterdly]

I disagree, from a pragmatic viewpoint it makes more sense for Britain to wait until 1) things have calmed down 2) common sense re. trade takes over from anger following the leave vote and 3) a new PM is elected. Cameron didn't do v well in the last round of negotiations and he supports staying in the EU - hardly the ideal candidate for negotiating 'leave' terms!

What a mistake that shows your total disregard of international trade.

The world will not stop at Brexit and businesses continue to enter into agreements and contracts in EU and elsewhere.

Except in Britain as long as conditions stay uncertain.

The waiting period and blur that you promote will therefore participate to a greater weakening of your country.

In our world of fierce competition other countries thank you.

Are you saying that brexit will result in the destruction of England whilst the EU will go from strength to strength? Or that Britain is better off invoking article 50 now, rather than waiting until things have calmed down and a new PM is installed?

[mommysboy]

Chiangmai and Dick Dasterdly are very good posters imo. I just hope they are not about to embark on a bitter trading war

[dick dasterdly]

Chiangmai and Dick Dasterdly are very good posters imo. I just hope they are not about to embark on a bitter trading war

We're all friends at the end of the day - albeit with different opinions .

[happy Joe]

Are you saying that brexit will result in the destruction of England whilst the EU will go from strength to strength? Or that Britain is better off invoking article 50 now, rather than waiting until things have calmed down and a new PM is installed?

Of course not.

England is a great country that in the past proved its capacity to resist in much more difficult situations.

I simply said that it has absolutely no interest in prolonging the period of uncertainty.

[dick dasterdly]

Are you saying that brexit will result in the destruction of England whilst the EU will go from strength to strength? Or that Britain is better off invoking article 50 now, rather than waiting until things have calmed down and a new PM is installed?

Of course not.

England is a great country that in the past proved its capacity to resist in much more difficult situations.

I simply said that it has absolutely no interest in prolonging the period of uncertainty.

Probably a good idea then to answer the points raised, rather than just stating your opinion.

Edited June 27, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[dick dasterdly]

I've been through this before with another poster. Of course its in the EU's interest for article 50 to be invoked immediately - but not Britains.

[happy Joe]

Are you saying that brexit will result in the destruction of England whilst the EU will go from strength to strength? Or that Britain is better off invoking article 50 now, rather than waiting until things have calmed down and a new PM is installed?

Of course not.

England is a great country that in the past proved its capacity to resist in much more difficult situations.

I simply said that it has absolutely no interest in prolonging the period of uncertainty.

Probably a good idea then to answer the points raised, rather than just stating your opinion.

Certainly not.

A forum is nothing more than an opinion exchange place allowing everyone to reinforce or modify his.

[pitrevie]

I've been through this before with another poster. Of course its in the EU's interest for article 50 to be invoked immediately - but not Britains.

Yes and what has been repeatedly pointed out to you that one of the central claims of that campaign was that it was costing us 350 million pound a week to be a member and we could save that money if we came out and use it for other social projects such as the NHS. However it now appears that it wasn't 350 million after all and there is no longer such a great urgency to save that money and in any event its highly unlikely that any social project such as the NHS will see even an extra bean.

We even have IDS even disassociating himself from the claim of 350 million while being shown previously standing in front of the battle bus with the claim blazoned on it.

The reason its not in the UK interest to hurry things along is that none of the principle proponents of exit have got the first idea what to do next and never did have or if they have they are not telling anyone.

[dick dasterdly]

I've been through this before with another poster. Of course its in the EU's interest for article 50 to be invoked immediately - but not Britains.

Yes and what has been repeatedly pointed out to you that one of the central claims of that campaign was that it was costing us 350 million pound a week to be a member and we could save that money if we came out and use it for other social projects such as the NHS. However it now appears that it wasn't 350 million after all and there is no longer such a great urgency to save that money and in any event its highly unlikely that any social project such as the NHS will see even an extra bean.

We even have IDS even disassociating himself from the claim of 350 million while being shown previously standing in front of the battle bus with the claim blazoned on it.

The reason its not in the UK interest to hurry things along is that none of the principle proponents of exit have got the first idea what to do next and never did have or if they have they are not telling anyone.

True - but it doesn't change the good reasons for GB to wait a while until invoking article 50.

[bkkcanuck8]

I've been through this before with another poster. Of course its in the EU's interest for article 50 to be invoked immediately - but not Britains.

Yes and what has been repeatedly pointed out to you that one of the central claims of that campaign was that it was costing us 350 million pound a week to be a member and we could save that money if we came out and use it for other social projects such as the NHS. However it now appears that it wasn't 350 million after all and there is no longer such a great urgency to save that money and in any event its highly unlikely that any social project such as the NHS will see even an extra bean.

We even have IDS even disassociating himself from the claim of 350 million while being shown previously standing in front of the battle bus with the claim blazoned on it.

The reason its not in the UK interest to hurry things along is that none of the principle proponents of exit have got the first idea what to do next and never did have or if they have they are not telling anyone.

True - but it doesn't change the good reasons for GB to wait a while until invoking article 50.

There is no good reason to invoke article 50 if you really did not want to leave in the first place - only crying wolf trying to get the attention of your partner.... of course... in this case your partners are going fine... bye!

In the meantime - you just end up stalling and pushing into recession both the British economy and the EU economy... and the longer you play games the more damage that is done.

We all now know that this was all a bluff and the people in charge of the leave campaign were never serious.... otherwise they would be pushing to invoke article 50 so the politicians don't find a way to change the question of the referendum retroactively and say - look we renegotiated a new deal - you did not actually vote to leave you voted to renegotiate and become a non-voting member with exactly the same obligations

Edited June 27, 2016 by bkkcanuck8

[Caps]

I can't see the EU agreeing to any form of UK beneficial trade agreement that doesn't include freedom of travel/domicile for EU nationals which would make the immigration argument mute.

Why not? Nobody has ever said ( not that I can remember) that we are going to kick out all the people that live in the UK that came from the EU. All they have said is that they want to control it. Nobody has said they want nothing to do with the EU, nobody has said they don't want to work closely with the EU , nobody has said they don't want trade with the EU..... All they have said is we want to be in control and not be controlled.

Even Merkel has said that she will do what's in the best interest of the German People and Economy when dealing with the U.K. They sell a lot to the UK!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk whilst drinking a cold beer

Edited June 27, 2016 by Caps

[Caps]

I've been through this before with another poster. Of course its in the EU's interest for article 50 to be invoked immediately - but not Britains.

Yes and what has been repeatedly pointed out to you that one of the central claims of that campaign was that it was costing us 350 million pound a week to be a member and we could save that money if we came out and use it for other social projects such as the NHS. However it now appears that it wasn't 350 million after all and there is no longer such a great urgency to save that money and in any event its highly unlikely that any social project such as the NHS will see even an extra bean.

We even have IDS even disassociating himself from the claim of 350 million while being shown previously standing in front of the battle bus with the claim blazoned on it.

The reason its not in the UK interest to hurry things along is that none of the principle proponents of exit have got the first idea what to do next and never did have or if they have they are not telling anyone.

True - but it doesn't change the good reasons for GB to wait a while until invoking article 50.

There is no good reason to invoke article 50 if you really did not want to leave in the first place - only crying wolf trying to get the attention of your partner.... of course... in this case your partners are going fine... bye!

In the meantime - you just end up stalling and pushing into recession both the British economy and the EU economy... and the longer you play games the more damage that is done.

We all now know that this was all a bluff and the people in charge of the leave campaign were never serious.... otherwise they would be pushing to invoke article 50 so the politicians don't find a way to change the question of the referendum retroactively and say - look we renegotiated a new deal - you did not actually vote to leave you voted to renegotiate and become a non-voting member with exactly the same obligations

If you had to invoke Article 50 within the first 10 minutes of the results then it would state that in Article 50. But it doesn't. So there is no rush, why be pushed, that's why we left..... They can wait

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk whilst drinking a cold beer

[MJP]

Quid's down over 3% already this morning. Good laugh!

[bkkcanuck8]

Yes and what has been repeatedly pointed out to you that one of the central claims of that campaign was that it was costing us 350 million pound a week to be a member and we could save that money if we came out and use it for other social projects such as the NHS. However it now appears that it wasn't 350 million after all and there is no longer such a great urgency to save that money and in any event its highly unlikely that any social project such as the NHS will see even an extra bean.

We even have IDS even disassociating himself from the claim of 350 million while being shown previously standing in front of the battle bus with the claim blazoned on it.

The reason its not in the UK interest to hurry things along is that none of the principle proponents of exit have got the first idea what to do next and never did have or if they have they are not telling anyone.

True - but it doesn't change the good reasons for GB to wait a while until invoking article 50.

There is no good reason to invoke article 50 if you really did not want to leave in the first place - only crying wolf trying to get the attention of your partner.... of course... in this case your partners are going fine... bye!

In the meantime - you just end up stalling and pushing into recession both the British economy and the EU economy... and the longer you play games the more damage that is done.

We all now know that this was all a bluff and the people in charge of the leave campaign were never serious.... otherwise they would be pushing to invoke article 50 so the politicians don't find a way to change the question of the referendum retroactively and say - look we renegotiated a new deal - you did not actually vote to leave you voted to renegotiate and become a non-voting member with exactly the same obligations

If you had to invoke Article 50 within the first 10 minutes of the results then it would state that in Article 50. But it doesn't. So there is no rush, why be pushed, that's why we left..... They can wait

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk whilst drinking a cold beer

Yes, who cares about the common folk having to pay 10% more for groceries - when instead maybe it would have been 5% more.

In the meantime the Lib Dems can try and orchestrate the fall of the government and a win in the general election and the referendum is all for not.

Edited June 27, 2016 by bkkcanuck8

[MissAndry]

Quid's down over 3% already this morning. Good laugh!

I don't care if it's down 25%.

When I came to Thailand I brought enough money with me to last the time I intend to stay here.

If Thailand becomes expensive, I'll live in England for a while.

Foreigners out!

[Caps]

Yes and what has been repeatedly pointed out to you that one of the central claims of that campaign was that it was costing us 350 million pound a week to be a member and we could save that money if we came out and use it for other social projects such as the NHS. However it now appears that it wasn't 350 million after all and there is no longer such a great urgency to save that money and in any event its highly unlikely that any social project such as the NHS will see even an extra bean.

We even have IDS even disassociating himself from the claim of 350 million while being shown previously standing in front of the battle bus with the claim blazoned on it.

The reason its not in the UK interest to hurry things along is that none of the principle proponents of exit have got the first idea what to do next and never did have or if they have they are not telling anyone.

True - but it doesn't change the good reasons for GB to wait a while until invoking article 50.

There is no good reason to invoke article 50 if you really did not want to leave in the first place - only crying wolf trying to get the attention of your partner.... of course... in this case your partners are going fine... bye!

In the meantime - you just end up stalling and pushing into recession both the British economy and the EU economy... and the longer you play games the more damage that is done.

We all now know that this was all a bluff and the people in charge of the leave campaign were never serious.... otherwise they would be pushing to invoke article 50 so the politicians don't find a way to change the question of the referendum retroactively and say - look we renegotiated a new deal - you did not actually vote to leave you voted to renegotiate and become a non-voting member with exactly the same obligations

If you had to invoke Article 50 within the first 10 minutes of the results then it would state that in Article 50. But it doesn't. So there is no rush, why be pushed, that's why we left..... They can wait

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk whilst drinking a cold beer

Yes, who cares about the common folk having to pay 10% more for groceries - when instead maybe it would have been 5% more.

So invoking Article 50 today will save my mum 5% on her carrots? Doubt it

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk whilst drinking a cold beer

[MJP]

Quid's down over 3% already this morning. Good laugh!

I don't care if it's down 25%.

When I came to Thailand I brought enough money with me to last the time I intend to stay here.

If Thailand becomes expensive, I'll live in England for a while.

Foreigners out!

Foreigners out of England or foreigners out of Thailand? Or English out of England to a foreign place? Or foreigners out of foreign places . . .

Help me out here.

[bkkcanuck8]

There is no good reason to invoke article 50 if you really did not want to leave in the first place - only crying wolf trying to get the attention of your partner.... of course... in this case your partners are going fine... bye!

In the meantime - you just end up stalling and pushing into recession both the British economy and the EU economy... and the longer you play games the more damage that is done.

We all now know that this was all a bluff and the people in charge of the leave campaign were never serious.... otherwise they would be pushing to invoke article 50 so the politicians don't find a way to change the question of the referendum retroactively and say - look we renegotiated a new deal - you did not actually vote to leave you voted to renegotiate and become a non-voting member with exactly the same obligations

If you had to invoke Article 50 within the first 10 minutes of the results then it would state that in Article 50. But it doesn't. So there is no rush, why be pushed, that's why we left..... They can wait

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk whilst drinking a cold beer

Yes, who cares about the common folk having to pay 10% more for groceries - when instead maybe it would have been 5% more.

So invoking Article 50 today will save my mum 5% on her carrots? Doubt it

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk whilst drinking a cold beer

If they had invoked article 50 before the opening of the markets and published a blueprint of the process of leaving and the goals of when it will all be completed - so companies can actually plan... then the drop in the currency very well could have been lessened... the more confusion, the more economic damage is done and the more you pay for imports because of the damage to the economy and it's affect on your currency.

[Gweiloman]

Most of the remainers on here talks incessantly about immigration and the 350 million that was meant to be ploughed back into the NHS. These are just the populist issues and not the underlying reasons that LEAVE won.

I wonder how many of the remainers were open minded enough to watch and listen to the other side. Talks by Lord Owen, Rees Mogg etc. You will find that immigration is not the key issue - it is just one of many. Also, if Britain were to save 10 billion pounds a year, don't you think that some of this will inevitable find it's way into the NHS.

However, I think it has to do with a patriotic issue - that is the continued loss of sovereignity if the UK sought ever deepening ties with the United States of Europe

[MissAndry]

Yes, who cares about the common folk having to pay 10% more for groceries - when instead maybe it would have been 5% more.

Groceries aren't priced according to cost plus principles.

They are priced on what the market will stand.

Let me explain, with one simple example.

Orange juice, costs about 5 pence to produce and package 1 liter, 2 pence to transport anywhere in the world.

In the UK it's priced at 1 pound per liter because that's what the British people will pay for it.

If exchange rates change the distributor makes less/more profit, he doesn't reprice the product.

The only product I know that was tied to a currency ($US) was oil, and that's so cheap now, it doesn't matter.

Edited June 27, 2016 by MissAndry

[bkkcanuck8]

Yes, who cares about the common folk having to pay 10% more for groceries - when instead maybe it would have been 5% more.

Groceries aren't priced according to cost plus principles.

They are priced on what the market will stand.

Let me explain, with on simple example.

Orange juice, costs about 5 pence to produce and package, 2 pence to transport anywhere in the world.

In the UK it's priced at 1 pound because that's what the British people will pay for it.

If exchange rates change the distributor makes less/more profit, he doesn't reprice the product.

The only product I know that was tied to a currency ($US) was oil, and that's so cheap now, it doesn't matter.

Only if you think Britain is the world market for oranges. Commodity prices are priced based on supply / demand.... and if it is an import - the exchange rate has to be taken into account AFTER the price is made and the local companies usually adjust prices based on their costs.

Last year Cauliflour in Canada (an import) was priced at $10 / head.... not because that was the price that Canadians could afford but because of supply / demand issues outside of Canada.

Edited June 27, 2016 by bkkcanuck8

[angiolo]

Quid's down over 3% already this morning. Good laugh!

SOON it will have nowhere to go but UP UP UP

[MissAndry]

Only if you think Britain is the world market for oranges. Commodity prices are priced based on supply / demand.... and if it is an import - the exchange rate has to be taken into account AFTER the price is made and the local companies usually adjust prices based on their costs.

It doesn't matter what product you use,

LED Televisions,

$200 to produce, $10 to ship anywhere in the world.

Sold for $600 in the USA, 600gbp in the UK, 800EU in Germany.

Same TV, the exchange rates don't set the selling price, it's what the locals will pay.

Yes, you might find the occasional item priced by scarcity value, but this isn't the norm.

Edited June 27, 2016 by MissAndry

[bkkcanuck8]

Only if you think Britain is the world market for oranges. Commodity prices are priced based on supply / demand.... and if it is an import - the exchange rate has to be taken into account AFTER the price is made and the local companies usually adjust prices based on their costs.

It doesn't matter what product you use,

LED Televisions,

$200 to produce, $10 to ship anywhere in the world.

Sold for $600 in the USA, 600gbp in the UK, 800EU in Germany.

Same TV, the exchange rates don't set the selling price, it's what the locals will pay.

Different type of market..... groceries are a commodity.

TVs have to be approved and certified and be packaged for the country that it is being shipped to -- and there is typically a distributor that has the rights (monopoly) to that country. It is the reason why in many cases you cannot order from somewhere like the US and have it shipped, the US company does not have the rights to that market it is a local distributor. For example, Denon receivers were priced 80% more (after 40% currency difference) in Canada than the US. I could walk across the border and buy it with cash and save money, but I could not order from the US because they did not have the Canadian rights to that market - a local distributor had all rights to Canada and that distributor had it's own markup added to the product.

[SgtRock]

Despite the feet stamping hysterics of certain EU officials

The German government is saying there will be no informal discussions between Britain and the European Union before the British government has invoked formal divorce proceedings by making a request under article 50 of the Lisbon treaty, a German government spokesman said this morning.

According to Reuters, Steffen Seibert, a spokesman for Angela Merkel, told a briefing:

One thing is clear: before Britain has sent this request there will be no informal preliminary talks about the modalities of leaving.

Only when Britain has made the request according to article 50 will the European Council draw up guidelines in consensus for an exit agreement.

Edited June 27, 2016 by SgtRock

[bkkcanuck8]

I've been through this before with another poster. Of course its in the EU's interest for article 50 to be invoked immediately - but not Britains.

Germany has ruled out informal talks before invoking article 50.... so if you really want to leave then article 50 will have to be invoked and then negotiations can begin.... or we can sit around pretending the referendum did not take place for the next decade until everyone forgets

[bkkcanuck8]

Despite the feet stamping hysterics of certain EU officials

The German government is saying there will be no informal discussions between Britain and the European Union before the British government has invoked formal divorce proceedings by making a request under article 50 of the Lisbon treaty, a German government spokesman said this morning.

According to Reuters, Steffen Seibert, a spokesman for Angela Merkel, told a briefing:

One thing is clear: before Britain has sent this request there will be no informal preliminary talks about the modalities of leaving.

Only when Britain has made the request according to article 50 will the European Council draw up guidelines in consensus for an exit agreement.

At least they are being consistent... invoke article 50 and leave....

Whereas Brits seem to not want to actually leave...

[Orac]

Most of the remainers on here talks incessantly about immigration and the 350 million that was meant to be ploughed back into the NHS. These are just the populist issues and not the underlying reasons that LEAVE won.

I wonder how many of the remainers were open minded enough to watch and listen to the other side. Talks by Lord Owen, Rees Mogg etc. You will find that immigration is not the key issue - it is just one of many. Also, if Britain were to save 10 billion pounds a year, don't you think that some of this will inevitable find it's way into the NHS.

However, I think it has to do with a patriotic issue - that is the continued loss of sovereignity if the UK sought ever deepening ties with the United States of Europe

Of course there are many issue involved here but, as you say, the popular ones were immigration and the 350m which is already being virtually denied.

Both Johnson and Gove as well as some on here seem to be talking about some sort of Norway deal and though we will almost certainly end up with something slightly different tailored more specifically to the UK/EU trading needs it will be virtually impossible without some sort of freedom of movement of people so, not only would we still have the same immigration from the EU, but we would lose our veto to block Turkey joining, unlikely as it is.

[Gweiloman]

Most of the remainers on here talks incessantly about immigration and the 350 million that was meant to be ploughed back into the NHS. These are just the populist issues and not the underlying reasons that LEAVE won.

I wonder how many of the remainers were open minded enough to watch and listen to the other side. Talks by Lord Owen, Rees Mogg etc. You will find that immigration is not the key issue - it is just one of many. Also, if Britain were to save 10 billion pounds a year, don't you think that some of this will inevitable find it's way into the NHS.

However, I think it has to do with a patriotic issue - that is the continued loss of sovereignity if the UK sought ever deepening ties with the United States of Europe

Of course there are many issue involved here but, as you say, the popular ones were immigration and the 350m which is already being virtually denied.

Both Johnson and Gove as well as some on here seem to be talking about some sort of Norway deal and though we will almost certainly end up with something slightly different tailored more specifically to the UK/EU trading needs it will be virtually impossible without some sort of freedom of movement of people so, not only would we still have the same immigration from the EU, but we would lose our veto to block Turkey joining, unlikely as it is.

Neither Hannan nor May want to stop immigration per se. They both agreed that the right move is to allow EU nationals in on the condition that they have a job and not to come and THEN start looking for a job

[DrTuner]

Despite the feet stamping hysterics of certain EU officials

The German government is saying there will be no informal discussions between Britain and the European Union before the British government has invoked formal divorce proceedings by making a request under article 50 of the Lisbon treaty, a German government spokesman said this morning.

According to Reuters, Steffen Seibert, a spokesman for Angela Merkel, told a briefing:

One thing is clear: before Britain has sent this request there will be no informal preliminary talks about the modalities of leaving.

Only when Britain has made the request according to article 50 will the European Council draw up guidelines in consensus for an exit agreement.

At least they are being consistent... invoke article 50 and leave....

Whereas Brits seem to not want to actually leave...

Merkel is checking if they are bluffing.