Massive petition calls for EU referendum re-run

[alanrchase]

I'm v sure the Brit. govt. will be v pleased about this petition from those who voted 'remain' - and lost.

Looking forward to finding out whether the EU sticks to "no negotiation", and whether the Brit. govt. changes from 'the electorate have decided' response - to something different.

Why? Cameron has accepted and given his resignation. Boris's outfit now. Possibly a short lived reign. No turning back as far as I can see.

[alanrchase]

52 to 48 does look close, but if you look at it by regions then it looks very different. Only really London had a big number for remain. The populations of Scotland and Northern Ireland are relatively small. So I guess London has benefited to most from EU membership. Democracy sucks ! But it's what people in Britain fought for for hundreds of years, so please respect that and accept the result. Otherwise move to live in the EU, get a new passport. Goodbye !

People in Britain fought for hundreds of years? Quite a lot of the fighting was between ourselves.

[MaxYakov]

Just out of curiosity, how many do overs do you get before it goes into the rock-paper-scissors round?

As many as they need to get the right result.

You meant until you get the 'left' result, of course.

[JetsetBkk]

The petition has 2,700,000 signatures and the number is increasing.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

This would be the face saving way for Britain to get out of this mess. First vote was the angry, drunken vote. Now, when even non-politically tuned Brits are realising what the brexit really means, its time to have second, the sober vote.

http://skepticalphilosopher.blogspot.ca/2009/09/persian-strategy-deliberating-while.html

The phrase "clutching at straws" comes to mind.....

Something else comes to my mind...

[impulse]

A majority is a majority, whether it is 1.3 million, 1300, 130 or 13. More people voted to leave than voted to remain. I understand that you don't like it, but there it is.

Incidentally, I wander how many of those petitioning for a revote actually bothered to voted in the referendum? Just a thought.

Personally, I don't really care what the results are. I'm American and we have our own political disasters.

But I hate to see a flawed process- what I refer to as the tyranny of the majority. You either have a representative democracy (a Republic), or you have a referendum democracy. Mix and match them willy nilly based on the prevailing whims coming from the headlines today, and you have a disaster in the making.

What's next? Voting whether to redistribute the wealth of the Royal Family? Because if you put that to a vote, they'd be stripped bare next week. Ban all foreigners visiting from predominately Muslim countries? Would pass in a heartbeat.

Back during the race riots in the '60's, Americans would have voted to deport all blacks to Africa had it come to a referendum. (We'd vote to strip Trump of his citizenship if it came to a vote today...)

And all of them would be wrong. Based on the emotions of a malleable and transient public opinion.

Leave the EU, stay in the EU. I don't care. But 52-48% at a single point in time inflamed by the refugee/migrant situation isn't the way to do it.

[mommysboy]

Look, there is only one poll that mattered, and it was a sound result.

I don't like it, but that's the way it is.

I wonder how many of those on the petition turned out to vote. Likewise if they did it as a joke, or protest vote, more fool them.

[alanrchase]

A majority is a majority, whether it is 1.3 million, 1300, 130 or 13. More people voted to leave than voted to remain. I understand that you don't like it, but there it is.

Incidentally, I wander how many of those petitioning for a revote actually bothered to voted in the referendum? Just a thought.

Personally, I don't really care what the results are. I'm American and we have our own political disasters.

But I hate to see a flawed process- what I refer to as the tyranny of the majority. You either have a representative democracy (a Republic), or you have a referendum democracy. Mix and match them willy nilly based on the prevailing whims coming from the headlines today, and you have a disaster in the making.

What's next? Voting whether to redistribute the wealth of the Royal Family? Because if you put that to a vote, they'd be stripped bare next week. Ban all foreigners visiting from predominately Muslim countries? Would pass in a heartbeat.

Back during the race riots in the '60's, Americans would have voted to deport all blacks to Africa had it come to a referendum. (We'd vote to strip Trump of his citizenship if it came to a vote today...)

And all of them would be wrong. Based on the emotions of a malleable and transient public opinion.

Leave the EU, stay in the EU. I don't care. But 52-48% at a single point in time inflamed by the refugee/migrant situation isn't the way to do it.

Interesting post. Probably very sensible, thanks.

[elfpattaya]

My Thai wife has just signed the petion. So you don't have be British, reside in Britain, or have ever been to Britain.

But she did have to make up a British post code.

did she sign the petition online ? and how

Yes we (Royal we) did it on line just to see if it could be done, out of devilment.

Just go to here https://petition.par...etitions/131215 and make up any name and rubbish you like.

The only thing we lied about was ticking the British resident box and of course making up a postcode. She even told them we were in Thailand.

Edited June 26, 2016 by elfpattaya

[JHolmesJr]

Until yesterday it was being suggested that the LEAVE group had no idea what they were doing…now it seems the REMAIN group has no clue of what they're demanding.

You can't unscramble an egg, luv.

[RickBradford]

The foundation of democracy is that the losers accept that they have lost a popular vote, and cop it.

It's quite a precious attribute, few countries worldwide have achieved this, and if the UK were to lose it, that really would spell ruin for the country.

There's also no need for another vote; the referendum wasn't legally binding, and Parliament has the option to ignore it.

[MJP]

[eliotness]

52 to 48 does look close, but if you look at it by regions then it looks very different. Only really London had a big number for remain. The populations of Scotland and Northern Ireland are relatively small. So I guess London has benefited to most from EU membership. Democracy sucks ! But it's what people in Britain fought for for hundreds of years, so please respect that and accept the result. Otherwise move to live in the EU, get a new passport. Goodbye !

People in Britain fought for hundreds of years? Quite a lot of the fighting was between ourselves.

You are correct. Fighting so every man and women had the right to vote and not just a self appointed elite.

[alanrchase]

My Thai wife has just signed the petion. So you don't have be British, reside in Britain, or have ever been to Britain.

But she did have to make up a British post code.

did she sign the petition online ? and how

Yes we (Royal we) did it on line just to see if it could be done, out of devilment.

Just go to here https://petition.par...etitions/131215 and make up any name and rubbish you like.

The only thing we lied about was ticking the British resident box and of course making up a postcode. She even told them we were in Thailand.

So as a non Brit you troll websites for various referendums and post your vote? It is only the internet. If you wish to believe everything on said internet you are a bit sad.

[eliotness]

The foundation of democracy is that the losers accept that they have lost a popular vote, and cop it.

It's quite a precious attribute, few countries worldwide have achieved this, and if the UK were to lose it, that really would spell ruin for the country.

There's also no need for another vote; the referendum wasn't legally binding, and Parliament has the option to ignore it.

If they do and it is a possibility, then the pressure for a new General Election will be huge. If that then happens not only will the divide in the country become worse, but Farage will have a field-day and UKIP could get the block of MPs he wants. Now is the time for constructive reasoning not knee jerk panic.

[mopar71]

and if the vote goes the other way , will there be a petition for another vote ?

Geez. Of course not. If/When Remain win that will be the end of it because the people will finally have gotten it right!

Same thing happens across America all the time. One side seems to get do-overs on a regular basis while the other always has to accept the vote because "the people have spoken".

I am almost always on the side of the "do-over" crowd, but that doesn't mean I am blind to the unfairness of it all. Kind of like when your team is playing in the championship and is awarded a penalty kick for a non-penalty when the game is tied with seconds remaining. You know the ref made a bulls**t call, but hey...

[eliotness]

Grow up please and move on with the fact the remain lost. I could say fair and square but with the based TV and media coverage it wasn't anywhere near. But the one fact is you were defeated so be mature and even dignified in defeat. The majority of people wanted to leave and they have shown that.

52%- 48% hardly screams out a mandate from the people. Given that the referendum isn't binding, I wouldn't be surprised to see the politicians (even responsible minded politicians if they exist) find a reason and a means to set aside the results. The difference between having 48% of the people pissed off and 52% of the people pissed off at them isn't really significant in the historical scheme of things. An unintended collapse of the economy would be significant in the historical scheme. They'll put some flowery language on it, though.

Frankly, given the immense consequences- both known and unintended, I'm surprised they didn't require a 2/3 majority to make such an historic change.

Never required a 2/3 majority for the original vote in the 70s. Why change the rules now just because Remain lost ?

[alanrchase]

52 to 48 does look close, but if you look at it by regions then it looks very different. Only really London had a big number for remain. The populations of Scotland and Northern Ireland are relatively small. So I guess London has benefited to most from EU membership. Democracy sucks ! But it's what people in Britain fought for for hundreds of years, so please respect that and accept the result. Otherwise move to live in the EU, get a new passport. Goodbye !

People in Britain fought for hundreds of years? Quite a lot of the fighting was between ourselves.

You are correct. Fighting so every man and women had the right to vote and not just a self appointed elite.

Who are the elite? Have more money than me? These days people seem to rally around an "elite" who dupes them into believing everything will be better. Honesty and integrity are things of the past.

[mopar71]

--

Edited June 26, 2016 by mopar71

[MJP]

52 to 48 does look close, but if you look at it by regions then it looks very different. Only really London had a big number for remain. The populations of Scotland and Northern Ireland are relatively small. So I guess London has benefited to most from EU membership. Democracy sucks ! But it's what people in Britain fought for for hundreds of years, so please respect that and accept the result. Otherwise move to live in the EU, get a new passport. Goodbye !

People in Britain fought for hundreds of years? Quite a lot of the fighting was between ourselves.

You are correct. Fighting so every man and women had the right to vote and not just a self appointed elite.

Who are the elite? Have more money than me? These days people seem to rally around an "elite" who dupes them into believing everything will be better. Honesty and integrity are things of the past.

[puck2]

There are 2 sides of the same coin

• a political one. This means in this Brexit case the government should respect the will of the voter majority. Of course, the Brexit enthusiasts will demand follow the vote result.
• a legal side. As already excellently explaind here in this thread the vote has no binding for the parliament. Referring to @ impulse, if you start a referendum about about paying no taxes - and the majority would agree - then think about the value of such a referendum and the binding for the parliament.

In this Brexit case it has been obvious the majority of (a lot of obviously uninformed) voters made their decision with their heart and NOT with their brain. The demand for a new refendum confirms this. It confirms too, that such an important decision with major implications should be made by the parliament. Believe it or not, in general they have a better and deeper information than the normal voter with his beer-pub-knowledge.

Edited June 26, 2016 by puck2

[Thaiwine]

I blame the media, they could have promoted calm and spoke of democracy, telling the losers to vote for their opinions at the next election, but that is not what big businesses want they want no change

[mopar71]

Frankly, given the immense consequences- both known and unintended, I'm surprised they didn't require a 2/3 majority to make such an historic change.

Exactly.

[sirineou]

A majority is a majority, whether it is 1.3 million, 1300, 130 or 13. More people voted to leave than voted to remain. I understand that you don't like it, but there it is.

Incidentally, I wander how many of those petitioning for a revote actually bothered to voted in the referendum? Just a thought.

Personally, I don't really care what the results are. I'm American and we have our own political disasters.

But I hate to see a flawed process- what I refer to as the tyranny of the majority. You either have a representative democracy (a Republic), or you have a referendum democracy. Mix and match them willy nilly based on the prevailing whims coming from the headlines today, and you have a disaster in the making.

What's next? Voting whether to redistribute the wealth of the Royal Family? Because if you put that to a vote, they'd be stripped bare next week. Ban all foreigners visiting from predominately Muslim countries? Would pass in a heartbeat.

Back during the race riots in the '60's, Americans would have voted to deport all blacks to Africa had it come to a referendum. (We'd vote to strip Trump of his citizenship if it came to a vote today...)

And all of them would be wrong. Based on the emotions of a malleable and transient public opinion.

Leave the EU, stay in the EU. I don't care. But 52-48% at a single point in time inflamed by the refugee/migrant situation isn't the way to do it.

Also an American, and yes in deed, a very sensible post.

In such an important matter, does such a small majority provide the mandate necessary to move forward?

Personally , I dont think so, and I believe if the wishes of the other half of the Uk are not taken in to consideration it would serve to fracture the Union.

[connda]

So amazingly predictable.

[impulse]

Frankly, given the immense consequences- both known and unintended, I'm surprised they didn't require a 2/3 majority to make such an historic change.

Never required a 2/3 majority for the original vote in the 70s. Why change the rules now just because Remain lost ?

I'd have said the same thing about a vote to join the EU. Just as America's founding fathers said about changes to our constitution, or over-riding a presidential veto. Too important to let the whims of 50% + 1 vote decide, especially when based on public opinion at a single point in time. Require 66%, and you have more than a whim.

[samuibeachcomber]

Frankly, given the immense consequences- both known and unintended, I'm surprised they didn't require a 2/3 majority to make such an historic change.

Exactly.

good point...but why did n't the remain vote win?...you cant keep asking for a rerun just because they dont like the verdict,It's what brussels did to referendum outcomes they did n't like,that's why brexit won people are fed up.Any result was always going to be devisive and would be the same if remain had won.

[ace]

4% is a sizeable margin in a political vote, about 8% ahead. If people want to back pedal, maybe they could consider the margin in England over 55-45. Apparently the Scots are planning to veto the whole thing anyway. That should work out well...

[alanrchase]

Frankly, given the immense consequences- both known and unintended, I'm surprised they didn't require a 2/3 majority to make such an historic change.

Exactly.

good point...but why did n't the remain vote win?...you cant keep asking for a rerun just because they dont like the verdict,It's what brussels did to referendum outcomes they did n't like,that's why brexit won people are fed up.Any result was always going to be devisive and would be the same if remain had won.

Think there would be similar sentiments if the vote went the other way by a narrow margin. Everendum was touted by some people. Good or bad we are out. Britain voted, live with it.

[RickBradford]

The foundation of democracy is that the losers accept that they have lost a popular vote, and cop it.

It's quite a precious attribute, few countries worldwide have achieved this, and if the UK were to lose it, that really would spell ruin for the country.

There's also no need for another vote; the referendum wasn't legally binding, and Parliament has the option to ignore it.

If they do and it is a possibility, then the pressure for a new General Election will be huge. If that then happens not only will the divide in the country become worse, but Farage will have a field-day and UKIP could get the block of MPs he wants. Now is the time for constructive reasoning not knee jerk panic.

There is constructive reasoning going on, as follows

1 ) Parliament ignores referendum result

2 ) General Election called

3 ) New government elected which has no need to abide by promises made by old government

4) New government therefore refuses to instigate Article 50.

5) UK therefore remains in the EU to the vast relief of self-serving, unelected, unaccountable, incompetent and extravagant bureaucrats plus crony capitalists worldwide.

The UK's image would be fatally tarnished, both in the eyes of the world and in its own estimation, but the anti-democrats in the EU could care less about that.

[impulse]

Here's a question that will make me real popular with our British cousins. Does anyone think a few percent may have voted differently had the vote been taken before the Euro hooligan brawls hit the news?

And if so, would that mean that the Russkies actually tipped the vote to the Exit side?

Just food for thought and discussion... Go ahead- I asked for it. I'm ready to be lambasted.

Edited June 26, 2016 by impulse