Pension verification stamp from "Ministry of foreign affairs"

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, hyku1147 said:

Does the Income Verification Letter need to be translated to Thai before being stamped?

The income letter does not need to be translated if it is in English.

Not all offices want it done and some they were reported before as wanting it done are not asking for it now.

They put a sticker on the income letter stating the signature has been verified. Image of it follows.

 

[007 RED]

I was also informed last year at Rai Khing IO (Nakhon Pathom) when extending my Retirement Visa that the letter from the British Embassy conforming my income needs to be authenticated by the MFA.  I have been extending my visa at the same IO for the past 5 years and I’m on good terms with the staff who normally give quick and good service.  

When I asked why this was necessary the officer said that had encountered a number of forgeries of the letter and that this was now a national requirement.  The officer agreed that on that occasion to extend my visa without the MFA stamp, but said that next year I would require the MFA stamp on the Embassy letter.

On returning home I contacted the Consular officer who issued my letter by email and she advised that they (the British Embassy) had not been informed of any change in procedures from immigration HQ.  She stated that the local IO’s do, however, have the power to require additional information as they see fit.

Last week I visited my local IO for 90 day reporting.  When the officer handed my passport back to me she reminded me that if I submit an embassy letter of income to support my renewal in September it must be verified by MFA.  When I got home and checked the notification slip I saw that a note to the effect that I had been reminded was made on the confirmation slip so I can’t say that they didn’t tell me.

I again contacted the Consular Section at the British Embassy and they reiterated what they had said before, adding that they had mentioned the issue at a meeting last year with the Commissioner who stated that there was no change in procedures.  According to the officer who replied to my enquiry, I appear to be the only person who has experienced this problem.

I’m lucky that going to the MFA in BKK is not really a major problem.  Just a waste of time and added cost.  A preverbal pain the rear end.  The IO have you by the ‘short and curlies’.  If this is a 'national requirement' I see major problems for those who live further away.

Has anyone else experienced this problem ?

[ubonjoe]

20 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

I’m lucky that going to the MFA in BKK is not really a major problem.  Just a waste of time and added cost.  A preverbal pain the rear end.  The IO have you by the ‘short and curlies’.  If this is a 'national requirement' I see major problems for those who live further away.

Has anyone else experienced this problem ?

Unfortunately for you the office you have to use is one of 3 or so that want the signature on the income letter verified. 

Check the flow show chart in English (click to enlarge) here for info on getting it done at the Department of Consular Affairs. http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/services/6441/71860-ขั้นตอนการรับรองนิติกรณ์เอกสาร---Legalization-Proc.html

They will put a sticker on it similar to this one.

[rosk]

First, sorry for my poor English, I am Norwegian. Last winter, February, I tried to convert my tourist visa to " retirement"visa at jomtien immigration, and after running to the office 4 times, and finally gathering all the paperwork they asked for, the rough lady behind the desk told me a must have the stamp from that office in Bangkok  this tread is talking about. ( Stamp on the pension statement I just got from the Norwegian consulate in jomtien and payed 1100 bht for, and which they accept the last 5 years without any problems). They gave me not any information about where to find that office in Bangkok, it was up to me to find out. After that I gave up the whole story and left home to Norway, clearly the message this time was, " we want to make it so difficult as possible for farang to get o-a " retirement visa" inside Thailand, so go home and ask for that visa through the Thai embassy in your home country!"

 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, rosk said:

First, sorry for my poor English, I am Norwegian. Last winter, February, I tried to convert my tourist visa to " retirement"visa at jomtien immigration, and after running to the office 4 times, and finally gathering all the paperwork they asked for, the rough lady behind the desk told me a must have the stamp from that office in Bangkok  this tread is talking about. ( Stamp on the pension statement I just got from the Norwegian consulate in jomtien and payed 1100 bht for, and which they accept the last 5 years without any problems). They gave me not any information about where to find that office in Bangkok, it was up to me to find out. After that I gave up the whole story and left home to Norway, clearly the message this time was, " we want to make it so difficult as possible for farang to get o-a " retirement visa" inside Thailand, so go home and ask for that visa through the Thai embassy in your home country!"

 

That MFA stamp is only required for the "conversion" of your Tourist-Visa to a Non-O Visa by the IO who handles conversions.  It is not reported as required for a 1-year extension, currently.  The person in charge of conversions has purportedly made offers to others to waive all the formalities for a 12K Baht tip, so what you encountered, in this case, is likely a corrupt official who handles that particular service. 

 

A "Non O-A" visa is only obtained through consulates abroad - not the same as a Non-O 90-Day (based on retirement) visa, which you need to start the process - nor the same as a 1-year extension, which you can only get if you already have a Non-immigrant type-visa. 

 

Many get a 90-day Non-O based on retirement from a nearby consulate, to avoid the "conversion" process.  Then, they can get the annual retirement-extension at their local immigration office.  The "conversion" process is fairly straightforward in Bangkok, but a PITA at some other offices - and you must apply at the office that serves the area where you live (now).

[007 RED]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Unfortunately for you the office you have to use is one of 3 or so that want the signature on the income letter verified. 

Check the flow show chart in English (click to enlarge) here for info on getting it done at the Department of Consular Affairs. http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/services/6441/71860-ขั้นตอนการรับรองนิติกรณ์เอกสาร---Legalization-Proc.html

They will put a sticker on it similar to this one.

Many thanks ubonjoe for your input and the MFA flowchart, much appreciated.  I note that on the flowchart it mentions that the document needs to be translated.  Is this the case (re: your post #32) ?? 

[ubonjoe]

17 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

Many thanks ubonjoe for your input and the MFA flowchart, much appreciated.  I note that on the flowchart it mentions that the document needs to be translated.  Is this the case (re: your post #32) ?? 

That does not mean a translation is needed. The flow chart covers all certifications including translations.

[007 RED]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

That does not mean a translation is needed. The flow chart covers all certifications including translations.

Again... many thanks for the heads up. 

If anyone has had their embassy letter confirming income authenticated by the MFA and can confirm that translation is/is not required I would be very grateful.  I don't want to get to the MFA and find that I need to have the embassy letter translated.  That would be a real pain plus extra cost. 

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

If anyone has had their embassy letter confirming income authenticated by the MFA and can confirm that translation is/is not required I would be very grateful.  I don't want to get to the MFA and find that I need to have the embassy letter translated.  That would be a real pain plus extra cost. 

The MFA don't have a requirement for it to be translated. They only verify the signature on it.

Immigration are the ones that require a translation if is not in English.The translation certification and signature would be two different functions and fees at the MFA.

[007 RED]

On ‎30‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 4:26 AM, 007 RED said:

I was also informed last year at Rai Khing IO (Nakhon Pathom) when extending my Retirement Visa that the letter from the British Embassy conforming my income needs to be authenticated by the MFA.  I have been extending my visa at the same IO for the past 5 years and I’m on good terms with the staff who normally give quick and good service.  

When I asked why this was necessary the officer said that had encountered a number of forgeries of the letter and that this was now a national requirement.  The officer agreed that on that occasion to extend my visa without the MFA stamp, but said that next year I would require the MFA stamp on the Embassy letter.

On returning home I contacted the Consular officer who issued my letter by email and she advised that they (the British Embassy) had not been informed of any change in procedures from immigration HQ.  She stated that the local IO’s do, however, have the power to require additional information as they see fit.

Last week I visited my local IO for 90 day reporting.  When the officer handed my passport back to me she reminded me that if I submit an embassy letter of income to support my renewal in September it must be verified by MFA.  When I got home and checked the notification slip I saw that a note to the effect that I had been reminded was made on the confirmation slip so I can’t say that they didn’t tell me.

I again contacted the Consular Section at the British Embassy and they reiterated what they had said before, adding that they had mentioned the issue at a meeting last year with the Commissioner who stated that there was no change in procedures.  According to the officer who replied to my enquiry, I appear to be the only person who has experienced this problem.

I’m lucky that going to the MFA in BKK is not really a major problem.  Just a waste of time and added cost.  A preverbal pain the rear end.  The IO have you by the ‘short and curlies’.  If this is a 'national requirement' I see major problems for those who live further away.

Has anyone else experienced this problem ?

An Update:

Just been to my local IO at Rai Khing (Nakhon Pathom to extend my permission to stay for another year based upon retirement.  Arrived at the office just before they opened the door at 08:30 and was given ticket number 1.  Within a few minutes I was called to the desk. 

I had prepared all documents in advance and handed them to the officer with my passport.  She went through each copy with a fine toothcomb and quickly stamped my application form and requested 1,900 Baht.  A few minutes later my passport was returned together with receipt for fee.

I had to smile as I left the office.... the IO never looked at the reverse of my embassy letter confirming my income, yet she was the one who insisted that I have it authenticated.  Also within the bundle of documents I gave her was a copy of my 'pink ID Card'.  The IO remarked that she had never seen one and showed it to her colleagues who seemed to give their approval that I had one... not that it made any difference to my application.

Dress casual/smart.... smile... and say thank you (teeth gritted).... In and out in less than 10 minutes.  I just wonder what 'enhancements' they will ask for next year.

[PhuketSarah]

On 7/10/2016 at 6:01 PM, OJAS said:

I can't ever see this becoming a national requirement in practice (I was referring purely hypothetically to this possibility in post #6). The MFA would almost certainly not welcome their Bangkok office being lain siege to by hordes of foreign retirees and husbands of Thai nationals who have descended on it from all 4 corners of LOS clutching Embassy income confirmation letters/affidavits for verification.

At one time I had business there and took a Thai friend with me to fill out a form in Thai- not good enough, had to pay an inn house worker 1000 baht to spend about 4 minutes because it was "special Thai language" 

I can very well believe the MFA,  having seen what consulates reap in, will want to cash in. 

Watch for satellite offices in main provinces to open up.  

[JackThompson]

31 minutes ago, PhuketSarah said:

At one time I had business there and took a Thai friend with me to fill out a form in Thai- not good enough, had to pay an inn house worker 1000 baht to spend about 4 minutes because it was "special Thai language" 

I can very well believe the MFA,  having seen what consulates reap in, will want to cash in. 

Watch for satellite offices in main provinces to open up.  

Why open up satellite offices and increase overhead, when you can make the Farangs take special trips to the main-office in Bangkok?  So what if its a pain in our backsides serving no purpose - we should be glad we get to stay here at all, right?

[PhuketSarah]

4 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Why open up satellite offices and increase overhead, when you can make the Farangs take special trips to the main-office in Bangkok?  So what if its a pain in our backsides serving no purpose - we should be glad we get to stay here at all, right?

They know male foreigners will put up with anything for the women.  

[ubonjoe]

22 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Why open up satellite offices and increase overhead, when you can make the Farangs take special trips to the main-office in Bangkok?  So what if its a pain in our backsides serving no purpose - we should be glad we get to stay here at all, right?

You can do the legalizations and signature verification by mail. No need to go to Bangkok.

Info here: http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/services/6441/72113-บริการรับรองเอกสารทางไปรษณีย์---Mailing-Service.html

 

[JackThompson]

7 minutes ago, PhuketSarah said:

They know male foreigners will put up with anything for the women.  

There is a lot of truth to that.  There are some foreign-women who give me dirty-looks when they see me walking hand-in-hand with my wife.  What they probably don't know, is this only serves to remind us to be very thankful for being here, to spite the hassles with Immigration, having reminded us of the culture (or what remains of it) which we left behind.  It is always good to have a reminder to count one's blessings - can brighten up the darkest day.

[JackThompson]

12 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You can do the legalizations and signature verification by mail. No need to go to Bangkok.

Info here: http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/services/6441/72113-บริการรับรองเอกสารทางไปรษณีย์---Mailing-Service.html

 

I had no idea of this.  I was under the impression that only an agent/translator could do it remotely using a courier.  Thank you very much.

[PhuketSarah]

17 hours ago, JackThompson said:

There is a lot of truth to that.  There are some foreign-women who give me dirty-looks when they see me walking hand-in-hand with my wife.  What they probably don't know, is this only serves to remind us to be very thankful for being here, to spite the hassles with Immigration, having reminded us of the culture (or what remains of it) which we left behind.  It is always good to have a reminder to count one's blessings - can brighten up the darkest day.

 I can agree many aspects are very desirable-albeit  I am preparing my own meals, laundry housework etc. Sure,  having a  a personal servant / assistant  young handsome Thai man willing to act as house boy,   interested in  a middle- aged, foreign woman  with some cash would go in the plus column, but such lads  are both rare, and honestly to me,  just more than a bit suspect. I understand it is a different ethos for Thais- acceptable,  but I'm not interested.

 

   I enjoy the cheap rent on a small home in a very quiet place close to all I need. I like going to the farmer's market and having a beach nearby. But there's nothing ethereal  about  it, my life choices have led me to it, not any blessings and it's nothing I can't find in US. 

 

With  stressful hassles and outright rudeness   on  every single necessary encounter with authorities - crossing the border, 90 day reports and now the really absurd TM 30  within 24 hours of travel- which is pretty much a whole day travel for me - just not worth it.  

What's the motto; "Good GUYS in.."

Do you think that' was deliberate,  or just run of the mill sexism

[JackThompson]

8 minutes ago, PhuketSarah said:

... What's the motto; "Good GUYS in.."

Do you think that' was deliberate,  or just run of the mill sexism

I think that reading the statement that way - the mentality that underlies the "pronoun war" - explains exactly a big reason I don't ever want to live in the West, again - among other reasons.

 

That isn't to say I don't give credence to how language is used as a means to control (a good place to start being Orwell's "Politics of the English Language" - and some later essays/speeches by Aldous Huxley).  But dividing populations by ethnicity/race, gender, etc works in direct-opposition to individuals seeing how they are fooled/used by those with power. 

 

Equal opportunity for every individual is a wonderful thing - a woman or person of color who can now become an engineer, lawyer, chemist, or physicist (what a waste of raw-talent and lives in the old-days).  But social-engineering by billionaire's foundations (which is the origin of the pronoun-war) is not about expanding opportunity or choices.  It's about encouraging hate/resentment and expanding tax-bases (more women doing 'tax-able' work they actively-hate), and keeping populations/families divided so they can be more easily played/ruled from above.
 

Social-Engineering gets individuals to fight with others in their own class and culture, instead of working together for mutual-benefit and self-preservation.  On the micro-level, it divides and destroys communities, and families.  On the macro-level, it divides cultures and nations - and by breaking up families, creates a greater dependency on 'the state' for basic survival needs.  Those funding today's social-engineering are not friends of the downtrodden, even though most who work for them probably believe they are.

 

The extent to which Thailand has not succumbed to Western social-engineering is, in my view, a good thing.  There is still some work to do on expanding opportunity, of course, but this can be tackled by technology / education, to a great extent.  Hopefully, more self-supported foreigners' incomes will be allowed to help build the bridge to that future.

[PhuketSarah]

20 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I think that reading the statement that way - the mentality that underlies the "pronoun war" - explains exactly a big reason I don't ever want to live in the West, again - among other reasons..

.[Snipped] 

Hopefully, more self-supported foreigners' incomes will be allowed to help build the bridge to that future.

Sure, as long as they're guys....

I'm not really upset about it,  after all vast majority of foreigners are men with reasons for that outlined in above posting. But language is a tool for  setting societal norms.

 

Now if they used the term  girls.. That one gets my ire up- reducing  women  to children- only if they are sexually attractive, though. Us lesser beings are " ladies.." I've  had a response that calling adult females " women" is an insult.

Something about  patriarchal mandated bizarre worship of intact hymens no doubt.

[JackThompson]

On 8/9/2017 at 3:49 PM, ubonjoe said:

You can do the legalizations and signature verification by mail. No need to go to Bangkok.

Info here: http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/services/6441/72113-บริการรับรองเอกสารทางไปรษณีย์---Mailing-Service.html

 

Within the instructions on that page is a link to a form ("download here" in section #1) and the link is this:
http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/services/1405/21210-คำร้องขอรับรองเอกสาร.html

But when I click on that link, no form is displayed.   Is the MFA's "Legalization Application Form" available elsewhere?

[ubonjoe]

12 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Within the instructions on that page is a link to a form ("download here" in section #1) and the link is this:
http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/services/1405/21210-คำร้องขอรับรองเอกสาร.html

But when I click on that link, no form is displayed.   Is the MFA's "Legalization Application Form" available elsewhere?

The link was working before. Found the download link for it though (changed filename to English). MFA legalization form.doc

[Rv Hawee]

@hotchilli Don't tell me it was the bald guy who asked you ....

[stevew407]

They do not do a "pension verification letter" and immigration does not require one.
See here for "How to obtain a pension/income letter for Thai Immigration". https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-to-obtain-a-pensionincome-letter-for-thai-immigration

Wish that the American Embassy was this helpful and informative. I have some personal questions and issues about the service and performance. See my Facebook page. But I also feel a bit too negative as many of the remarks tend to be in these forums? The sarcasm and humor I do get laughs from.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, stevew407 said:

Wish that the American Embassy was this helpful and informative. I have some personal questions and issues about the service and performance.

Getting the income affidavit is straightforward and easy to get. Make an appointment. Complete the affidavit online and print it out. Then go to the embassy with the affidavit, pay the $50 (or 1800 baht) fee. Then swear an oath before the consular officer it is true and correct and sign it in front of them.

Link for completing the affidavit is on this page. https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/income-affidavit/

 

 

[charliebadenhop]

Two points-

1. The form you directed us to Joe, shows a form for CM and Bangkok only. What will I use living in Chiang Rai?

 

2. The form states- money received from the US.

I get about $500 a month from US Social Security and about $500 a month from Japanese social security (Nenkin). Can I still get the US Embassy to accept what I tell them? 

[ubonjoe]

58 minutes ago, charliebadenhop said:

Two points-

1. The form you directed us to Joe, shows a form for CM and Bangkok only. What will I use living in Chiang Rai?

 

2. The form states- money received from the US.

I get about $500 a month from US Social Security and about $500 a month from Japanese social security (Nenkin). Can I still get the US Embassy to accept what I tell them? 

1. The affidavits are addressed to the immigration bureau which is over all immigration offices. They will be accepted at all immigration offices (worked for me 10 times here in Ubon).

2. They will accept the number you put on the form with no questions asked.

 

[charliebadenhop]

Ok.

As always, thanks Joe!