May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Khun Han]

11 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

Sadly, it's you who chooses not to read and understand the history of the EU nor acknowledge ANY point raised by your interlocutors. You and your colleagues really are turning Brexit into a peasants' revolt! Such a pity we abandoned hanging, drawing and quartering in 1870! It would be such fun ?

 

You know what Grouse, it's as rare as rocking horse poo that I agree with you on brexit, But I agree with you that this is a peasants' revolt. Where we diverge is that the peasants have finally woken up and kicked back against the golobalists. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer under the globaslist and EU system. PM May has identified this, and has promised to address it. She has shown herself to be far to the left of Tony Blair (did you suppport him by the way?), and has directly addressed workng class issues in her media work today again.

[SheungWan]

42 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

You know what Grouse, it's as rare as rocking horse poo that I agree with you on brexit, But I agree with you that this is a peasants' revolt. Where we diverge is that the peasants have finally woken up and kicked back against the golobalists. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer under the globaslist and EU system. PM May has identified this, and has promised to address it. She has shown herself to be far to the left of Tony Blair (did you suppport him by the way?), and has directly addressed workng class issues in her media work today again.

 

Theresa May, leader of the working class. . This thread gets more hilarious by the day.

[rockingrobin]

9 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

True to form, another deliberate misinterpretation of a post.

 

The point was that a region that has had two massively destructive wars in the 20th Century has managed to get along quite peacefully since then ... as a result of closer economic and cultural ties, and EU membership has helped greatly to create that situation. A dis-united Europe is dangerous ... countries on the edge are more vulnerable to predators like Putin ... he has very good reasons to want to see the meltdown of the EU and a Trump presidency that is anti-NATO. And if he does move on a country we are back to more dangerous times. Brexit won because of immigration concerns, but the implications stretch way beyond these matters. When you align your interests with extremists don't be surprised if it backfires on you.

 

 

D Express 2014

The gap between exiting the EU and seeing it completely destroyed and at the economic mercy of Moscow is not one that seems to worry Ukip however

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/479532/Nigel-Farage-is-another-of-Moscow-s-darlings-as-Putin-backs-Right

[Laughing Gravy]

14 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Really?

 

I can't recall anyone saying that.

 

Can you give some examples?

Well if you read the thread and others on the subject in the news section, you will see some TV posters promoting the EU and how the UK will not survive without it. Ilostmypassord, cumgranasalum and sandyf are just a few examples.

[Laughing Gravy]

14 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

Please sir, I don't like sliced bread; not even Hovis ( cue Dvorak )

 

One area the rest of the EU wins hands down is bread!

 

I am frankly astonished that some of the crap we sell in our supermarkets can still be legally described as bread!?

And you claim to be from Yorkshire. Shameful.

[Laughing Gravy]

13 hours ago, AlexRich said:

I don't recall anyone on this thread or previous ones stating that the EU set up is some paragon of governance, I think everyone recognises that it is an organisation that could be run better and achieve more. Despite its faults it has been good for UK prosperity and has helped this region become more peaceful ... most remainers take the view that it is better to stay within, link up with like minded groups and argue the case within the EU ... not the cut your nose off to spite your face approach of the brexiteers ... when Putin, Wilders, Farage, Trump, and Le Pen are all in favour of something we should be on guard ... putting your future in the hands of extremists has never turned out well in the past.

The EU and its faults. That is an understatement. You talk about Putin. The EU is a dictatorship just in another form. The Brexit vote has highlighted that. No negotiation and its our way or none.

 

the UK has tried to work with the EU and it is refusing. Do you think it is just a coincidence that a populist revolt on the EU is just happening by chance. People are not stupid and they see what it is. You don't need an EU to do trade. in fact the EU is actually stopping trade in many levels.

 

You mention faults, so how many years is the EU allowed to continually make faults before enough is enough? Well the UK has decided the time is now. Soon other countries will follow so the constant debating on the EU is futile. It is an organization sinking and with the two clowns of Junket and Tusk are making it easy for others to jump ship. It is going to be a sad year for Europhiles.

[Orac]

The EU and its faults. That is an understatement. You talk about Putin. The EU is a dictatorship just in another form. The Brexit vote has highlighted that. No negotiation and its our way or none.

 

the UK has tried to work with the EU and it is refusing. Do you think it is just a coincidence that a populist revolt on the EU is just happening by chance. People are not stupid and they see what it is. You don't need an EU to do trade. in fact the EU is actually stopping trade in many levels.

 

You mention faults, so how many years is the EU allowed to continually make faults before enough is enough? Well the UK has decided the time is now. Soon other countries will follow so the constant debating on the EU is futile. It is an organization sinking and with the two clowns of Junket and Tusk are making it easy for others to jump ship. It is going to be a sad year for Europhiles.

Not sure who it is you are expecting to jump ship. Le Penn has said recently that she sees France's position as staying within the EU/Eurozone and affecting change from within though no doubt this is partially to attract europhile voters in the upcoming elections. Beppo Grillo, the Italian leader of the 5 Star party has just cut his ties with UKIP in the European Parliament and looks to be throwing his lot in with Guy Verhofstadt's ALDE which has a federalist agenda.

To me it appears that brexit is giving Europeans a common foe to unite against and an opportunity for various actors within it to show strong leadership since it is becoming very clear that in the current political atmosphere of populism it is much easy to gain support by being negative and clearly identifying a 'them' ,be it Mexicans, muslims or Brits who you can attack without upsetting your power base too much.

It is no surprise that a tough line is being taken regarding negotiations as Brexit has given the current EU leadership exactly the excuse they needed to counter right wing populism across Europe and the UK is the turkey that voted for christmas that is giving them the opportunity.

[Laughing Gravy]

22 minutes ago, Orac said:

Not sure who it is you are expecting to jump ship. Le Penn has said recently that she sees France's position as staying within the EU/Eurozone and affecting change from within though no doubt this is partially to attract europhile voters in the upcoming elections

Le Penn did say that France would leave until recently when she says that France would leave the EU if she won and leave later on. She wants the EU to be like the old common Market which just wont happen with the inflexible administration the EU is.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38511058

 

Once the EU crashes and I am convinced it will I firmly believe that other EU members will want out.

 

[sandyf]

On 1/8/2017 at 1:24 AM, Khun Han said:

 

If Article 50 had been enacted the day after the referendum, we would currently trading under the same rules and conditions that we are actually trading under. The 'expert' forecasters have admitted that they got this one badly wrong. It's a shame remainer posters on ThaiVisa are unable to do the same, because it would help the discussions to move on if they did.

Nothing like muddy waters is there.

The statement 

"we would currently trading under the same rules and conditions that we are actually trading under."

applies now and will continue to apply during the negotiating period. However once Article 50 is invoked confidence levels will alter, just a matter of whose.

 

What many conveniently forget is that the UK trades with the world on the back of EU legislation. It is fairly obvious that TM is more prepared to fund changes to UK legislation than fund the NHS or social care. There is only so much money available so the cost of brexit will inevitably impact on living standards.

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Well if you read the thread and others on the subject in the news section, you will see some TV posters promoting the EU and how the UK will not survive without it. Ilostmypassord, cumgranasalum and sandyf are just a few examples.

You did not address the point 7by7 made so you have used my name in an out of context reference, please remove it.

[Laughing Gravy]

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

You did not address the point 7by7 made so you have used my name in an out of context reference, please remove it.

I believe from your posts that you are a strong advocate of the EU and have said so. So what is out of context.

 

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

Please sir, I don't like sliced bread; not even Hovis ( cue Dvorak )

 

One area the rest of the EU wins hands down is bread!

 

I am frankly astonished that some of the crap we sell in our supermarkets can still be legally described as bread!?

Some validity there, as a slight side observation, a friend of mine has a small bakery in the Atlas development in Attercliffe and the last I heard he was doing 19 varieties of bread in loaf format, and selling very well.

[Orac]

Le Penn did say that France would leave until recently when she says that France would leave the EU if she won and leave later on. She wants the EU to be like the old common Market which just wont happen with the inflexible administration the EU is.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38511058
 
Once the EU crashes and I am convinced it will I firmly believe that other EU members will want out.
 

Depends which articles you read but clearly she is going a bit 'soft' on her EU agenda:

"Then le Pen suggested that she might not want to take France out of the EU at all. Asked if she wanted France to leave, she replied: "No, I think we need to renegotiate with the EU to bring back sovereignty to France, backed by a referendum."

And

"Instead, she said: “I want a national currency with the euro as a common currency,”"

http://europe.newsweek.com/marine-le-pen-election-french-presidential-eu-euro-ecu-frexit-european-538928?rm=eu


And she still has to win the election which is not exactly a done deal.

[Laughing Gravy]

1 minute ago, Orac said:

Depends which articles you read but clearly she is going a bit 'soft' on her EU agenda:

"Then le Pen suggested that she might not want to take France out of the EU at all. Asked if she wanted France to leave, she replied: "No, I think we need to renegotiate with the EU to bring back sovereignty to France, backed by a referendum."

Yes I agree her stance is softening from previous years and different papers say different things.

As for negotiating good luck with that. There is only one way to get your sovereignty back and that is to leave. if she did get in that would be a politicians way to say well we tried to negotiate with the EU but they won't allow change so we will leave. Sounds a bit like the UK situation.

[sandyf]

14 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I believe from your posts that you are a strong advocate of the EU and have said so. So what is out of context.

 

" Actually Grouse some posters on here have claimed the EU is the best thing since sliced bread and leaving it the UK will lose its democratic way. "

7by7 responded to this comment, and you know who from. I have never made any statement along those lines so you cannot quote me as an 'example'

 

To clarify I consider the EU to be an over inflated and badly managed organisation in desperate need of reform BUT it is a preferable option to the fallout from complete separation. Unfortunately there are many, including the PM, that refuse to recognise the toxicity of the fallout.

[Laughing Gravy]

22 minutes ago, sandyf said:

" Actually Grouse some posters on here have claimed the EU is the best thing since sliced bread and leaving it the UK will lose its democratic way. "

7by7 responded to this comment, and you know who from. I have never made any statement along those lines so you cannot quote me as an 'example'

 

To clarify I consider the EU to be an over inflated and badly managed organisation in desperate need of reform BUT it is a preferable option to the fallout from complete separation. Unfortunately there are many, including the PM, that refuse to recognise the toxicity of the fallout.

OK sandyf.

[rockingrobin]

52 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Yes I agree her stance is softening from previous years and different papers say different things.

As for negotiating good luck with that. There is only one way to get your sovereignty back and that is to leave. if she did get in that would be a politicians way to say well we tried to negotiate with the EU but they won't allow change so we will leave. Sounds a bit like the UK situation.

France membership of the EU is written into the French constitution , thus leave is a bit more problematic 

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Some validity there, as a slight side observation, a friend of mine has a small bakery in the Atlas development in Attercliffe and the last I heard he was doing 19 varieties of bread in loaf format, and selling very well.

 

 

    The only bread they sell in Attercliffe is Chapatis. Us Yorkshire folk only dine on the highest cuisine.

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

The EU and its faults. That is an understatement. You talk about Putin. The EU is a dictatorship just in another form. The Brexit vote has highlighted that. No negotiation and its our way or none.

 

the UK has tried to work with the EU and it is refusing. Do you think it is just a coincidence that a populist revolt on the EU is just happening by chance. People are not stupid and they see what it is. You don't need an EU to do trade. in fact the EU is actually stopping trade in many levels.

 

You mention faults, so how many years is the EU allowed to continually make faults before enough is enough? Well the UK has decided the time is now. Soon other countries will follow so the constant debating on the EU is futile. It is an organization sinking and with the two clowns of Junket and Tusk are making it easy for others to jump ship. It is going to be a sad year for Europhiles.

 

'You talk about Putin. The EU is a dictatorship just in another form.' 

[Khun Han]

3 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

 

    The only bread they sell in Attercliffe is Chapatis. Us Yorkshire folk only dine on the highest cuisine.

 

I'd change yer chippy. A bit stingy on the gravy for me (though it's possibly down to some EU directive-or-other about unified volumes) .

[AlexRich]

6 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Well if you read the thread and others on the subject in the news section, you will see some TV posters promoting the EU and how the UK will not survive without it. Ilostmypassord, cumgranasalum and sandyf are just a few examples.

 

Funny, I don't recall any of the above ... most posters who supported staying believed that the UK is better off within the EU, not that it would not survive ... just be poorer economically. 

 

Just quote them saying the UK will not survive and I'll apologise.

[AlexRich]

6 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

The EU and its faults. That is an understatement. You talk about Putin. The EU is a dictatorship just in another form. The Brexit vote has highlighted that. No negotiation and its our way or none.

 

the UK has tried to work with the EU and it is refusing. Do you think it is just a coincidence that a populist revolt on the EU is just happening by chance. People are not stupid and they see what it is. You don't need an EU to do trade. in fact the EU is actually stopping trade in many levels.

 

You mention faults, so how many years is the EU allowed to continually make faults before enough is enough? Well the UK has decided the time is now. Soon other countries will follow so the constant debating on the EU is futile. It is an organization sinking and with the two clowns of Junket and Tusk are making it easy for others to jump ship. It is going to be a sad year for Europhiles.

 

If the EU was a dictatorship we would not be allowed to leave, and we'd be in the Euro ... a comparison with Putin's Russia is laughable.

 

As for faults, all governance systems have them, including our own parliamentary system. Who did you vote to enter the House of Lords? Who did you vote as Head of State? Do you think everybody in the UK is happy with the North-South divide? Or whether we should nationalise some industries. The point is that no system is perfect ... not the EU, and not what we will have after we leave. 

 

Juncker is undoubtedly a clown, but a clown with not much influence unless supported by member states. Theresa May sold her soul to the Daily Mail in order to gain their support for her leadership bid and guarantee that her rivals would be rubbished ... there's more to Boris's quick exit than meets the eye (I suspect that there are a few more skeletons in his cupboard that have yet to come out, but would have if he had run for office) and Leadsom, whose record was rubbished (and no doubt threats made) to get her resignation. So we end up with a stooge in charge ... with backers to pay off. 

 

Taking back control ... horse manure!

 

[7by7]

On ‎08‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 6:27 AM, Laughing Gravy said:

Actually Grouse some posters on here have claimed the EU is the best thing since sliced bread and leaving it the UK will lose its democratic way.

 

On ‎08‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 11:19 AM, 7by7 said:

 

Really?

 

I can't recall anyone saying that.

 

Can you give some examples?

 

9 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Well if you read the thread and others on the subject in the news section, you will see some TV posters promoting the EU and how the UK will not survive without it. Ilostmypassord, cumgranasalum and sandyf are just a few examples.

 

Myself and others have often said that, despite it's faults, being in the EU is better for the UK than being out of it; but that is not the same as your ridiculous misrepresentations.

 

Certainly no one has said, to the best of my knowledge, that leaving the EU means the UK will "lose it's democratic way" nor you new claim that "the UK will not survive without it."

 

So do you have any examples, or are you just making things up?

[7by7]

16 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

It won't be easy with those mendacious scumbags in Brussels .who's only concern is to squeeze cash out of blighty till the last seconds 

 

People like Nigel Farage, you mean?

Nigel Farage plans to pocket his £84,000 MEP salary until we officially quit the EU, and his 'expenses' of course!

 

Not that he does much in the way of work for it!

Quote

Farage himself is one of the biggest skivers from parliamentary sessions. He is ranked 746th out of 751 MEPs when it comes to voting on things. 

 

[jpinx]

16 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

 

 

Myself and others have often said that, despite it's faults, being in the EU is better for the UK than being out of it; but that is not the same as your ridiculous misrepresentations.

 

Certainly no one has said, to the best of my knowledge, that leaving the EU means the UK will "lose it's democratic way" nor you new claim that "the UK will not survive without it."

 

So do you have any examples, or are you just making things up?

Pretty much everyone agrees that the EU is a top-heavy, bureaucratic colossus and only gets bigger and more invasive in the individual member country's affairs.  There has been no serious attempt to reform or streamline from within, or we would see a few results already, but instead of that we have Junkers, Tusk, Schultz and others all baying for a fully federalised europe.  If anyone can point out the clear indications of the remainers hoped-for signs of "reform-from-within" we could discuss them, but there is nothing tangible coming up in the thousands of posts in this and other brexit-related threads.  I talk to people with close contacts in Brussels and the feed-back is all about how to put enough tripwires in the way of Brexit to prevent it happening - to prevent what they all dread -- the break-up of the EU. 

 

Le Penn has talked in a softer way about her intentions, but the reality is that if she wants more sovereignty, that means leaving.  Sovereignty is not something that can be divided between to "governments".  France is potentially the tipping point for the EU in 2017.

 

There is no need for extremism.  A so-called Soft Brexit would probably be perfectly acceptable to most people.

[7by7]

Sorry, jpinx, but I fail to see the relevance of the above post to the quote of my post with which you began it.

[jpinx]

36 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Sorry, jpinx, but I fail to see the relevance of the above post to the quote of my post with which you began it.

You said:  "......being in the EU is better for the UK than being out of it....."  and I was outlining the fact that both sides do have common ground in defining the EU as it is now, and both sides want reform.  The differences are between "Leave to reform" or "Remain to reform"   To be honest the rest of the discussions in these threads is a bit irrelevant.  

 

 

 

[nontabury]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

People like Nigel Farage, you mean?

Nigel Farage plans to pocket his £84,000 MEP salary until we officially quit the EU, and his 'expenses' of course!

 

Not that he does much in the way of work for it!

 

 

Why should he attend this talk shop,as he like the majority of the British people do not believe in it. Yet  his constituents must continue pay into this so- called Union. Better to do as he is now doing, speaking up for the Majority, and putting pressure on TM to fulfill her obligations.

[Laughing Gravy]

9 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

 

 

Myself and others have often said that, despite it's faults, being in the EU is better for the UK than being out of it; but that is not the same as your ridiculous misrepresentations.

 

Certainly no one has said, to the best of my knowledge, that leaving the EU means the UK will "lose it's democratic way" nor you new claim that "the UK will not survive without it."

 

So do you have any examples, or are you just making things up?

There you go again asking for examples. I gave you some on a previous request. Why don't you go and spend some time reading the previous threads and you won't need to ask. I will not be giving you more examples for your inability to go back and read what people have said.

[SheungWan]

Sterling slides another 1% on Hard Brexit sounds popping out of Theresa May's mouth.