Foreigner married to Thai - laws regarding home ownership

[williamgeorgeallen]

10 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

Have you ever seen a foreigner get money from a landed property in a divorce?

i did see it once. i have seen others win court cases but they never actually got anything other than the legal bill.

[MikeyIdea]

15 hours ago, trogers said:

And being in your Thai wife's name means all of it belongs to her.

No 50/50 split should the relationship goes sour.

 

That is rubbish, totally wrong. You have by any chance never been to family court have you? And yet you post

 

Family court do not care about the agreement that foreigners married to Thai's have to sign at the land department if wife buys land

 

I have myself been in Family court when a wife tried to push it and the judges disregarded it and still split assets 50/50 

 

Edited November 12, 2016 by MikeyIdea

[chiang mai]

4 hours ago, Djw6 said:

Buy a condo. It's in your name (freehold), and it will always be in your name.

Buy a house. Never in your name. The wife owns it 100%. You split up, you get 0%.

Good luck.

"Buy a house. Never in your name. The wife owns it 100%. You split up, you get 0%.

Good luck".

 

Rubbish, it's a 50/50 split of assets acquired during marriage.

[MikeyIdea]

14 hours ago, trogers said:

 

Even if in her name, because her foreigner husband need not sign a disclaimer to any ownership interest when the condos were transferred to her name. Unlike acquisition of landed properties.

 

Wrong again. Ownership disclaimer is not required for the first condo but I have in court seen cases of both disclaimer required and no disclaimer for condo number two onwards

 

I have a feeling that you will not stop posting wrong information regardless of how many people who post and tell you that they in court have seen the opposite

 

Edited November 12, 2016 by MikeyIdea

[trogers]

6 hours ago, MikeyIdea said:

 

Wrong again. Ownership disclaimer is not required for the first condo but I have in court seen cases of both disclaimer required and no disclaimer for condo number two onwards

 

I have a feeling that you will not stop posting wrong information regardless of how many people who post and tell you that they in court have seen the opposite

 

 

Not wrong. You already have said, you seen cases of no disclaimers need for condos, and my own cases of  five condos with my wife's name in two of them.

 

But a disclaimer is definitely need for landed property.

Edited November 13, 2016 by trogers

[trogers]

6 hours ago, MikeyIdea said:

 

That is rubbish, totally wrong. You have by any chance never been to family court have you? And yet you post

 

Family court do not care about the agreement that foreigners married to Thai's have to sign at the land department if wife buys land

 

I have myself been in Family court when a wife tried to push it and the judges disregarded it and still split assets 50/50 

 

 

There is no judiciary precedent in Thailand. Lower courts need not be bound by decisions made even by the Supreme Court.

 

If you are dead sure, please explain why a Japanese tried to kill his ex-thai wife after the Family Court award her sole ownership to both house and car?

[RichardColeman]

Rent - fool. You have an easy plan !

[MikeyIdea]

2 hours ago, trogers said:

 

There is no judiciary precedent in Thailand. Lower courts need not be bound by decisions made even by the Supreme Court.

 

If you are dead sure, please explain why a Japanese tried to kill his ex-thai wife after the Family Court award her sole ownership to both house and car?

 

Neither you nor I know what had gone on in the obligatory negotiations in court, what the Japanese guy had done, what the wife had done or perhaps fabricated, something must have happened and we have no idea what. And what he did to "clear the problem" was utter stupidity

 

Appeals in Family and Juvenile court is quick, not at all as in criminal court. He should have appealed and he would have been in the appeals court in a year and gotten justice. Unless his wife set him up and fabricated evidence. It's also easy to frame an idiot, wife deliberately build up a "debt" for the family is a common one. We simply don't know

 

The problem is the foreigners Thai lawyers who absolutely need a negotiated agreement if the judges want it or plain dishonesty

 

Just refuse and let court order and Justice works in Family and Juvenile.  

 

Edited November 13, 2016 by MikeyIdea

[joskeshake]

I also looking to buy a house, but I need to make a compagny, 2 thai names and me ? I live together with lady for nearly 6 years,whats the best i can do ?

[HampiK]

6 hours ago, joskeshake said:

I also looking to buy a house, but I need to make a compagny, 2 thai names and me ? I live together with lady for nearly 6 years,whats the best i can do ?

 

This only my opinion:

To buy a house in company name I think is not a good idea... in my thinking it is in the gray area, and maybe in the future could give problems.

To put the house in your lady name is dangerous as well.

 

Only take care, that if you really buy the house you have the right to life in the house as long you life, even when the house is owned for example by your lady.. so she can't sell the house easy because even when have a new owner, you would have the right to stay in the house... Maybe there are some people with more and more detailed knowledge about this matter...

[xylophone]

21 hours ago, joskeshake said:

I also looking to buy a house, but I need to make a compagny, 2 thai names and me ? I live together with lady for nearly 6 years,whats the best i can do ?

 

If this is what it seems to be, which is a house owned via a nominee company, then it is illegal and has been cracked down on from time to time, and I do believe there is more to come.

 

You would be well advised to seek out other threads on this, because there is much, much good information on them, as well as the usual "uninformed" stuff. Even more confusing is the fact that some Thai lawyers will set this process up for you for a fee, irrespective of the fact that it is not a legal way for a foreigner to acquire a house/land.

 

Check out usufruct as a way of getting round some of the problems with ownership and being able to live in the place, all the while understanding that you cannot own land in your own name/right (actually there is an exclusion to this by virtue of the fact that you have to invest something like 40 million baht, or thereabouts, in the country to get that right).

 

This is different to the topic under discussion, so check out the other threads on this subject.

 

[NickJ]

Hard or near impossible to get a mortgage. My friend had all his salary deposited into his wife's act for two years so it looked like she was the earner. He works on line and gets paid well. A bank here bought into his fabrication. many turned her down. Age is also a factor. they will almost never give an older person a mortgage. The person getting the loan also need to pre pay a life insurance policy with the bank as the beneficiary. 

[sometimewoodworker]

On 12/11/2016 at 9:14 PM, Bangkok Barry said:

What happens if the Thai wife dies and the house is put up for sale as required, but then it doesn't sell within the period (one year?) allowed?

You don't have to sell the house. You do have to sell the land.

 

if you have been sensible you have an usufruct. If you are lucky you can sell the land for a price that is reasonable, if not then a low price. But if you have an usufruct you can continue living in your house on somebody else's land.

 

i think that the government may get the land if you don't sell it, but you should talk to a lawyer.

 

Edited November 14, 2016 by sometimewoodworker

[chiang mai]

8 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You don't have to sell the house. You do have to sell the land.

 

if you have been sensible you have an usufruct. If you are lucky you can sell the land for a price that is reasonable, if not then a low price. But if you have an usufruct you can continue living in your house on somebody else's land.

 

i think that the government may get the land if you don't sell it, but you should talk to a lawyer.

 

"You don't have to sell the house. You do have to sell the land".

 

Say what??? Since when can the two things be separated and sold independent of each other!

 

If the wife dies and there is an usufruct in place, the foreign husband has one year to sell both. If they cannot be sold ownership of the property, the land and the house, passes to the wife's Thai heirs, none of which impacts the usufruct and the husbands right to live in the house, on the land, it's just that the one year window in which to make a sale will have closed. However, as an usufruct owner the foreign husband will be able to issue a 30 year lease on the property (and land), should he so wish.

[Paul944]

A mortgage will be very difficult to near impossible to get. Also the mortgage interest is high, about 6%, so renting would be more advisable to start with.

 

If you insist on buying. The maximum mortgage is about 80% so you will need at least 20% of the money. 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

"You don't have to sell the house. You do have to sell the land".

 

Say what??? Since when can the two things be separated and sold independent of each other!

 

If the wife dies and there is an usufruct in place, the foreign husband has one year to sell both. If they cannot be sold ownership of the property, the land and the house, passes to the wife's Thai heirs, none of which impacts the usufruct and the husbands right to live in the house, on the land, it's just that the one year window in which to make a sale will have closed. However, as an usufruct owner the foreign husband will be able to issue a 30 year lease on the property (and land), should he so wish.

It is easy to separate the ownership of land and house and isn't uncommon.

 

i own property but not land in the U.K. and while I have owned it the land has been sold more than once.

 

So you are Not correct.

 

A foreigner can own the house. So there is no compulsion to sell it. AFIK at the end of the usufruct term the land owner becomes the owner of everything on it, unless there is a lease but that usually can't be renewed so eventually the land owner will own the house (unless it is moved or demolished before that.)

 

He/she can't own the land so is forced to sell that.

 

the usufruct only effects the usufructee's right over the land. If the usufructee were to sell both land and house then that would be a very interesting situation and it could easily be argued that they had abandoned the right to live in a house they did not own.

 

However the only good answer is to consult a lawyer who's specialisation is in that field of law

Edited November 14, 2016 by sometimewoodworker

[chiang mai]

Just now, sometimewoodworker said:

Not correct.

 

A foreigner can own the house. So there is no compulsion to sell it.

 

He/she can't own the land so is forced to sell that.

 

the usufruct only effects the usufructee's right over the land. If the usufructee were to sell both land and house then that would be a very interesting situation and it could easily be argued that they had abandoned the right to live in a house they did not own.

 

However the only good answer is to consult a lawyer who's specialisation is in that field of law

 

You're delusional if you think that's true. And from earlier debates on usufruct it's clear that you don't understand their application entirely! 

 

 

[Jimi007]

On 11/11/2016 at 8:11 PM, craigt3365 said:

Have you ever seen a foreigner get money from a landed property in a divorce?

Yes I have. It took years but the courts ruled and she had to sell the land and pay him or the court would size the land and sell it. An American friend.

[Delight]

On 11/12/2016 at 8:56 PM, Djw6 said:

Buy a condo. It's in your name (freehold), and it will always be in your name.

Buy a house. Never in your name. The wife owns it 100%. You split up, you get 0%.

Good luck.

Not quite true.

If the foreigner has evidence that he brought the money into Thailand -then in the case of divorce  he will get  minimum 50%.

The evidence can simply be an entry in a bank book. Money brought in  just prior to the house purchase.

In Thai divorce law each party keeps their assets prior to marriage- maybe not relevant in this case.

50/50 split on assets accrued during marriage.

 

 

[bwanajohn]

I agree with General Chaos ,I've personal known of more than one case where the courts found that the although the farang partner could of course not have ownership of property when things went south he was entitled to be compensated under the ,50/50 rule and when evidence showed that all or most of the money came from the farang partner more that was taken into consideration as well.

[bradiston]

There is at least one very well established law firm in Bangkok with a team of American lawyers, amongst others. They can't represent you in court, but I'd say their advice is trustworthy 100%. Recommend you come and talk to them. Here, you will get anecdotes and personal experience, but not reliable legal advice. Both have their value of course!

[thesetat2013]

If you are planning to use Thai wife to get a mortgage then the house will need to be in Thai wife's name. The loan will also be only in her name. You can own the house if you buy it outright but you can not own the land. You can however buy the land for the wife in her name. But I believe the money for this can not be from outside the country. The money must come from Thai source. Also, if you do get the land in wifes name then get the house in your name. Then you should make the wife sign a land lease for 50 years to allow you to rent the land for 100  baht a year. This way, should there be a marriage problem in the future you can rest easily that you will still be able to live in the house. 

[heybuz]

On 11/12/2016 at 2:11 PM, craigt3365 said:

Have you ever seen a foreigner get money from a landed property in a divorce?

Yes me.

[PeachCH]

Had a condo in the name of my wife. 

Then she died and the family wanted 50%.

Had to take a lawyer and got to the court in Nakon Si Thamarat. 

Because there was a testament in my name, the court ruled in my favor (without tea money 💵 😁) 

The rule, that I have to sell in one years time, could be overturned by my lawyer. 

[jippytum]

Yes

[couchpotato]

On 11/12/2016 at 10:50 AM, craigt3365 said:

These condos were in her name.  Cheaper price if bought under the Thai allotment.  I have to say, I was shocked he got anything!

Then she agreed to the 50/50 otherwise he would have no claims on the Condos..so different scenario

[WDSmart]

I looked into this a long time ago. What I found then was that if a couple (a foreigner married to a Thai woman) were to buy property (land), it would have to be done under the Thai woman's name, but the foreigner husband's name would also be listed on the property. Although the husband wouldn't own the property, the Thai wife couldn't sell it without the husband's permission. 

That was 15 years ago, so the laws may have changed by now.

[couchpotato]

4 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I looked into this a long time ago. What I found then was that if a couple (a foreigner married to a Thai woman) were to buy property (land), it would have to be done under the Thai woman's name, but the foreigner husband's name would also be listed on the property. Although the husband wouldn't own the property, the Thai wife couldn't sell it without the husband's permission. 

That was 15 years ago, so the laws may have changed by now.

Wrong then, and now. The only reason the husband could/would be on the Chanute is if a mortgage/loan was registered at the same time. This is recorded on the Chanute and yes the land owner could not sell until the loan has been discharged.

 

Caveat......Can be joint Thai/foreign ownership with a Condo, not land.

[hotandsticky]

10 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

Wrong then, and now. The only reason the husband could/would be on the Chanute is if a mortgage/loan was registered at the same time. This is recorded on the Chanute and yes the land owner could not sell until the loan has been discharged.

 

Caveat......Can be joint Thai/foreign ownership with a Condo, not land.

 

I would imagine that owner COULD sell the property if the buyer accepted the incumbrance of the mortgage?

[WDSmart]

3 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

13 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I looked into this a long time ago. What I found then was that if a couple (a foreigner married to a Thai woman) were to buy property (land), it would have to be done under the Thai woman's name, but the foreigner husband's name would also be listed on the property. Although the husband wouldn't own the property, the Thai wife couldn't sell it without the husband's permission. 

That was 15 years ago, so the laws may have changed by now.

Wrong then, and now. The only reason the husband could/would be on the Chanute is if a mortgage/loan was registered at the same time. This is recorded on the Chanute and yes the land owner could not sell until the loan has been discharged.

 

Caveat......Can be joint Thai/foreign ownership with a Condo, not land.

@couchpotato, Thanks for your comment, but my Thai wife and I (USA) have multiple properties, including rice land, that have chanote deeds and have no loans out against them. When we bought them, the land office in our area (Phetchabun) told us the properties had to be in my wife's name but would include my name and require both of our approvals of any sale or even using the properties for collateral on a loan. Also, we sold one of the rice fields we owned (no mortgage), and I was required to sign during the sale.

 

Now, maybe my signature was not REQUIRED, but we were told it was at the time. That sale was about five years ago. That was clearly the belief of the land office here in Phetchabun.