Scotland's Sturgeon says: I can win an independence vote

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

 So once again you fail to answer, why N.S.so miserable failed to answer A.N. Questions on the Scottish economy. 

 I do beleive that the SNP are not seeking Independence. If they were,I would be more sympathic to them. What they actually want is separation from a union, in which they are over representated, in order that they can then join ( if they can match the entre requirements) a so called Union, in which they will be treated as a bit player.

 

 

Again, the failure is yours as you, again, prove yourself incapable of defining the question you wish me to answer. Be specific - listen to the video, consider the issues discussed, try to understand them then form your own cogent questions, rather than your usual hiding behind sh!tposts and clickbait headlines. One would be forgiven, otherwise, for thinking that you don't have an original thought in your head. 

 

That aside, as I have pointed out on numerous occasions, I am not a member of the SNP. I see them as a vehicle to delivering a better, fairer Scotland. How I would vote after independence is wholly dependent upon the choices - I am not nearly as tunnel visioned as the majority of posters on this thread seem to be.  

[RuamRudy]

In reply to Nontabury's post on the May Ready for Tough Talks Over Brexit post, #5131, where he wrote:

 

"Except of course,if Scotland were then to join the E.U.

This would result in all the powers being transferred to Brussels,who for sure would not give Scotland the privileges it now enjoys."

 

If powers currently reside in Westminster, why would they be transferred to Brussels in the event of a Yes vote?

[nontabury]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

In reply to Nontabury's post on the May Ready for Tough Talks Over Brexit post, #5131, where he wrote:

 

"Except of course,if Scotland were then to join the E.U.

This would result in all the powers being transferred to Brussels,who for sure would not give Scotland the privileges it now enjoys."

 

If powers currently reside in Westminster, why would they be transferred to Brussels in the event of a Yes vote?

That would be the conditions, that would be dictated by the E.U.

The obvious one,would be that Scotland would have to join the EURO. That would be of course,if Scotland could meet the requirements.

And as you well know,we've been through all the weaknesses and lack of strength regarding the Scottish economy. That I'm now getting very bored with your insistence  on keeping your head in the sand.

As I've told you previously, I've been a passionate supporter of Scottish separation for 50yrs. Though I think it's only right that the Scottish people should have all the True facts placed before them. Not some fairy tale spouted by =

 

Edited May 16, 2017 by nontabury

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

That would be the conditions, that would be dictated by the E.U.

The obvious one,would be that Scotland would have to join the EURO. That would be of course,if Scotland could meet the requirements.

And as you well know,we've been through all the weaknesses and lack of strength regarding the Scottish economy. That I'm now getting very bored with your insistence  on keeping your head in the sand.

As I've told you previously, I've been a passionate supporter of Scottish separation for 50yrs. Though I think it's only right that the Scottish people should have all the True facts placed before them. Not some fairy tale spouted by =

 

You seem to think that the EU will treat an application from Scotland differently from how they deal with every other country. Is there any actual basis for your inference that we would be a vassal state of Brussels, unlike every other member?

 

Personally, I am in favour of Scotland joining the Euro over time. It makes a lot of sense in some respects - but if we don't meet the requirement, then what? There are 7 (?) countries in the EU that are not in the Eurozone - why can there not be 8?

 

If you are bored, no need to keep posting, but your seeming inability to accept that the failings in the economic data that you and the other remoaners keep harping on about have been exposed by experts suggests that it is you who has your head in the sand, unless your statement about facts is just a continuation of the denial that Brexit is anything other than leaping off a cliff in the dark, and let's be honest, no Brexiter should be afforded any credibility when he demands facts, willing as he is, to see the UK trashed on a farrago of lies and manipulation.

[7by7]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

You seem to think that the EU will treat an application from Scotland differently from how they deal with every other country.

 Was it not you who, during the last independence referendum campaign, repeatedly stated that an independent Scotland would not have to apply to join the EU because it is already a member?

 

Have you now accepted that Scotland is no more a member of the EU than London is; that it is the UK who is a member, not each of it's constituent parts and if one of those constituent parts leaves the UK they also leave the EU?

 

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

Personally, I am in favour of Scotland joining the Euro over time. It makes a lot of sense in some respects - but if we don't meet the requirement, then what? There are 7 (?) countries in the EU that are not in the Eurozone - why can there not be 8?

There are currently 9 EU member countries not in the Eurozone.

 

Two of them, the UK and Denmark, negotiated opt outs in the Maastricht Treaty which exempted them from joining; the other 7, who joined the EU post Maastricht, are obliged to join at some point as a condition of EU membership.

 

Scotland will be under the same obligation.

 

So far the EU have been pretty lax on enforcing this obligation; but who knows if they will continue with such laxity.

 

Don't forget Schengen; all new EU members have to join the Schengen area.

 

So, if an independent Scotland joins the EU she will lose most of the control over her borders, and, at some point in the future, lose all control over her economy.

 

What is the difference between that and the present situation?

[Flustered]

I feel so sorry for the majority of Scottish people who want to stay in the United Kingdom but have to put up with the constant whinge, whinge, whinge of the minority who are so blinkered they cannot see that Scotland is an economic basket case on it's own. Geographically and economically it is linked to England and for all extents and purposes they are one country. It is only this vociferous minority of Scots that are causing all of the problems and issues.

 

After this general election, I will be very surprised if the SNP do not lose at least half of their seats. But they will call that a great victory.

[RuamRudy]

14 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Was it not you who, during the last independence referendum campaign, repeatedly stated that an independent Scotland would not have to apply to join the EU because it is already a member?

My contention was, if I recall correctly, that as a de facto member now (i.e. not the signatory on the agreement but complying with the rules of membership) that membership would not be overly difficult to attain. I still believe that to be the case. Although Brexit wasn't even a thing then (remember the scare story by Better Together - the only way to remain the EU was to remain in the UK? Hah!) so it is possible that I suggested that an internal relocation of power should not necessitate a major or insurmountable shift in Scotland's relationship with the EU.

 

17 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Have you now accepted that Scotland is no more a member of the EU than London is; that it is the UK who is a member, not each of it's constituent parts and if one of those constituent parts leaves the UK they also leave the EU?

I am not sure I ever suggested anything to the contrary - certainly when the foolishness of Brexit won the day, I never suggested that Scotland should simply refuse to leave.

 

21 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

So, if an independent Scotland joins the EU she will lose most of the control over her borders, and, at some point in the future, lose all control over her economy.

 

What is the difference between that and the present situation?

The one big difference is that a member state of the EU has greater say over the direction of the EU than Scotland has over the UK. But that aside, the following is a list of matters reserved, not by Brussels, but by Westminster:

 

- Benefits & social security

- Broadcasting

- Constitution

- Defence

- Employment

- Equal opportunities

- Foreign policy

- Immigration

- Trade & industry

 

Which of these do you suggest Brussels will make a grab for?

[7by7]

Not counting local elections, in the last four years the Scottish people have been asked to cast their votes four times:

• 2014 independence referendum,
• 2015 general election,
• 2016 EU referendum,
• 2017 general election.

It is easy to assume that the SNP's desire to hold yet another independence referendum in the very near future is based, at least in part, on the hope that voter fatigue will mean only those committed to their cause will have the motivation to get out and vote for a fifth time in such a short period!

 

[RuamRudy]

27 minutes ago, Flustered said:

I feel so sorry for the majority of Scottish people who want to stay in the United Kingdom but have to put up with the constant whinge, whinge, whinge of the minority who are so blinkered they cannot see that Scotland is an economic basket case on it's own. Geographically and economically it is linked to England and for all extents and purposes they are one country. It is only this vociferous minority of Scots that are causing all of the problems and issues.

 

After this general election, I will be very surprised if the SNP do not lose at least half of their seats. But they will call that a great victory.

What particular aspects of the Scottish economy is it that makes you think it is a basket case?

What problems are being created by people expressing their democratic right to hold a political point of view contrary to yours?

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Not counting local elections, in the last four years the Scottish people have been asked to cast their votes four times:

• 2014 independence referendum,
• 2015 general election,
• 2016 EU referendum,
• 2017 general election.

It is easy to assume that the SNP's desire to hold yet another independence referendum in the very near future is based, at least in part, on the hope that voter fatigue will mean only those committed to their cause will have the motivation to get out and vote for a fifth time in such a short period!

 

To be fair, only one was at the SNP's request: one was legally required, one was a mistake initiated by the Tories and the last is a vanity play by the PM - you cannot blame the SNP for 75% of them.

[7by7]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

To be fair, only one was at the SNP's request: one was legally required, one was a mistake initiated by the Tories and the last is a vanity play by the PM - you cannot blame the SNP for 75% of them.

 No, but I can blame the SNP for cynically taking advantage of them!

 

The EU referendum a mistake initiated by the Tories? Maybe; in the same way as the 2014 independence referendum was a mistake initiated by Labour and continued by the Tory/LibDem coalition!

 

Except, in my opinion, the EU referendum result was the wrong result whilst the Scottish independence result was the right one.

 

The forthcoming general election a vanity play by the PM? How so?

 

After Cameron's resignation and May becoming PM, many said she had no mandate from the electorate to be PM (I was not one of those as I understand the way such things work in the UK) and that as a prominent Remain supporter should not be in charge of the Brexit negotiations.

 

One of the reasons, indeed the main reason, she has called this election is to give her the mandate to secure the best, in her view, possible post Brexit deal.

 

In other words, back me or sack me.

 

(I haven't forgotten your previous response to my earlier post but time is pressing; so forgive me if I come back to that at another time.)

 

 

[RuamRudy]

10 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

No, but I can blame the SNP for cynically taking advantage of them!

Politicians in  "Taking Advantage of Political Climate to Meet Objectives Shocker!". It is the nature of the beast, I am afraid.

 

12 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

The EU referendum a mistake initiated by the Tories? Maybe; in the same way as the 2014 independence referendum was a mistake initiated by Labour and continued by the Tory/LibDem coalition!

 

Except, in my opinion, the EU referendum result was the wrong result whilst the Scottish independence result was the right one.

Opinions - the great thing about living in a democracy is that we are all allowed to have them.

 

16 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

The forthcoming general election a vanity play by the PM? How so?

You answered that yourself. She had a reasonable majority and very little dissent from within the tory party. While the stronger one's hand the better, of course, I wasn't of the opinion that she was wobbling prior to calling the election.

 

18 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

(I haven't forgotten your previous response to my earlier post but time is pressing; so forgive me if I come back to that at another time.)

That's ok - I am used to you pulling things from pages back and presenting them totally out of context so no need to apologise on this occasion. 

[Flustered]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

What particular aspects of the Scottish economy is it that makes you think it is a basket case?

What problems are being created by people expressing their democratic right to hold a political point of view contrary to yours?

The list of links to the economic problems of an independent Scotland would fill many pages. It is accepted by just about every major economic institution, think tank and blogger that on it's own, Scotland would spend at least ten years in economic turmoil and pain before returning to where it is today and that is not a healthy state.

 

Not my political agenda, the agenda of the Scottish people. The SNP are ignoring the will of the Scottish people in how they voted for independence. I should not complain about this because the general election will see the halving of the SNP MPs in Westminster and then the gradual decline as more and more Scots realise that they have been lied to time and time again by the SNP.

 

At least in a few years, we can look forward to working as a Union rather than listening to Mary Doll spouting off her vitriolic lies.

[nontabury]

1 minute ago, Flustered said:

The list of links to the economic problems of an independent Scotland would fill many pages. It is accepted by just about every major economic institution, think tank and blogger that on it's own, Scotland would spend at least ten years in economic turmoil and pain before returning to where it is today and that is not a healthy state.

 

Not my political agenda, the agenda of the Scottish people. The SNP are ignoring the will of the Scottish people in how they voted for independence. I should not complain about this because the general election will see the halving of the SNP MPs in Westminster and then the gradual decline as more and more Scots realise that they have been lied to time and time again by the SNP.

 

At least in a few years, we can look forward to working as a Union rather than listening to Mary Doll spouting off her vitriolic lies.

If only you where right. Unfortunately as we see on this thread, some people are so blinded to their beliefs,that they are not even prepared to even contemplate. That maybe,just maybe, that they've got it wrong.

 

 

[RuamRudy]

The list of links to the economic problems of an independent Scotland would fill many pages. It is accepted by just about every major economic institution, think tank and blogger that on it's own, Scotland would spend at least ten years in economic turmoil and pain before returning to where it is today and that is not a healthy state.
 
Not my political agenda, the agenda of the Scottish people. The SNP are ignoring the will of the Scottish people in how they voted for independence. I should not complain about this because the general election will see the halving of the SNP MPs in Westminster and then the gradual decline as more and more Scots realise that they have been lied to time and time again by the SNP.
 
At least in a few years, we can look forward to working as a Union rather than listening to Mary Doll spouting off her vitriolic lies.

Well why not just post a sample, rather than hiding behind a weak response as above?

The SNP was elected as the overwhelming majority in Westminster. Independence supporting parties have, yet again, a majority in Holyrood. Clearly the will of the Scottish people is not as cut and dried as southern based 'experts' like to think.

As for the GE, only time will tell, but I would caution you not to get your hopes up about a Tory renaissance north of the border. The wheels on RD's wagon are looking shooglier by the minute.

[Flustered]

20 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Well why not just post a sample, rather than hiding behind a weak response as above?

 

 

The list is almost endless but to make you happy. Here is is just a few of the first ones on the endless list.

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15142997.Economic_case_for_independence_lies____in_tatters___/

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/the-scottish-governments-own-figures-demolish-the-economic-case-for-independence/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/03/14/five-charts-show-economically-risky-scottish-independence-would/

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/20/scotland-cannot-afford-to-become-independent-says-jeremy-corbyn

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/independent-scotland-now-bankrupt/

[RuamRudy]

The list is almost endless but to make you happy. Here is is just a few of the first ones on the endless list.
 
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15142997.Economic_case_for_independence_lies____in_tatters___/
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/the-scottish-governments-own-figures-demolish-the-economic-case-for-independence/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/03/14/five-charts-show-economically-risky-scottish-independence-would/
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/20/scotland-cannot-afford-to-become-independent-says-jeremy-corbyn
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/independent-scotland-now-bankrupt/

Certainly there is an endless queue of people lining up to tell us that we are incapable of doing what many other countries do easily (maybe you have some thoughts on why Scots are incapable of running their own country?).

Your selection is, of course, almost exclusively from pro union publications and at least one avowed unionist writer, but I notice all were focused on oil, and all mentioned this supposed deficit.

Last year Norway produced very similar quantities of oil to the UK, in very similar operating circumstances. Why did the UK income from oil revenues underperform Norway's massively for similar volumes of production? Could it be the economic mismanagement or deliberate contrivance of Westminster to convince us that oil is finished?

As for the deficit... Do you know what it actually is? If you do, you are in a very exclusive club of 1. As has been shown, the UK does not have the ability to allocate revenue to the regions, so it is impossible to say how much Scotland contributes to the exchequer. So we know how much Scotland spends but we don't know how much it earns. How then, can the deficit be calculated?

[RuamRudy]

If only you where right. Unfortunately as we see on this thread, some people are so blinded to their beliefs,that they are not even prepared to even contemplate. That maybe,just maybe, that they've got it wrong.
 
 

What exactly have we got wrong? Only a subset, and polls can be fickle, but this suggests that there might be a lot of us who you consider to have gotten it wrong.

[7by7]

On ‎16‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 11:21 AM, RuamRudy said:

On ‎16‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 11:01 AM, 7by7 said:

(I haven't forgotten your previous response to my earlier post but time is pressing; so forgive me if I come back to that at another time.)

That's ok - I am used to you pulling things from pages back and presenting them totally out of context so no need to apologise on this occasion

Like the many other members who also "pull things from pages back" I have a job and a life outside this forum. Which means that I cannot always respond to those posts I wish to immediately after they have been posted and on many occasions have to wait until the next day, or longer, before I can respond.

 

During that period others may have posted. If the topic is popular enough this can take the topic onto the next one, two or even more pages.

 

Out of context? How so, when I'm on topic and quote the post I am responding to?

 

After you recovered from your strop and started responding to me again, I hoped that we may be able to have an intelligent conversation without your petty insults. I see that I was wrong.

 

[Dellboy218]

On 13/03/2017 at 7:56 PM, NanLaew said:

Or at least wait until oil prices improve?

That wont work either.  Many years ago the Shetland Isles said that if Scotland ever became independent from the rest of the UK then it would want independence from Scotland as the oil is theirs and not Scotlands.

[Khun Han]

On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 2:01 PM, RuamRudy said:

 

Certainly there is an endless queue of people lining up to tell us that we are incapable of doing what many other countries do easily (maybe you have some thoughts on why Scots are incapable of running their own country?).

Your selection is, of course, almost exclusively from pro union publications and at least one avowed unionist writer, but I notice all were focused on oil, and all mentioned this supposed deficit.

Last year Norway produced very similar quantities of oil to the UK, in very similar operating circumstances. Why did the UK income from oil revenues underperform Norway's massively for similar volumes of production? Could it be the economic mismanagement or deliberate contrivance of Westminster to convince us that oil is finished?

As for the deficit... Do you know what it actually is? If you do, you are in a very exclusive club of 1. As has been shown, the UK does not have the ability to allocate revenue to the regions, so it is impossible to say how much Scotland contributes to the exchequer. So we know how much Scotland spends but we don't know how much it earns. How then, can the deficit be calculated?

 

 

The issue is not that the Scots aren't capable of running their own country, it's what their starting base would be. And the SNP policy of trying to get an independant Scotland into the EU is a pandora's box. Scotland is entitled to it's independence if it wants it. But it should be under no illusions. Brexit will be a bumpy road for the UK, but it will be worth it. An independant Scotland throwing it's lot in with the German-dominated EU under the SNP's guidance could be a disaster.

[Flustered]

4 hours ago, Dellboy218 said:

That wont work either.  Many years ago the Shetland Isles said that if Scotland ever became independent from the rest of the UK then it would want independence from Scotland as the oil is theirs and not Scotlands.

A unified Scotland indeed

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9794316/Alex-Salmond-warning-over-Shetland-oil-after-independence.html

 

Under the two fishes leadership and arguments, the Shetlands would be perfectly entitled to independence away from Scotland and putting their lot in with the rest of the UK.

 

But then again, after the next general election, the SNP will be a much diminished force.

[RuamRudy]

8 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

The issue is not that the Scots aren't capable of running their own country, it's what their starting base would be. And the SNP policy of trying to get an independant Scotland into the EU is a pandora's box. Scotland is entitled to it's independence if it wants it. But it should be under no illusions. Brexit will be a bumpy road for the UK, but it will be worth it. An independant Scotland throwing it's lot in with the German-dominated EU under the SNP's guidance could be a disaster.

 

The entire premise of your post speaks of double standards - the uncertainty of Brexit is worth the risk whereas the uncertainty of Scottish independence is not? I respect your feelings antipathy towards the EU, but that is all they are - feelings, not facts. As for our starting base - if uncertainty makes independence a non-starter, then it has no chance of becoming a reality at any time in the future.

[RuamRudy]

8 hours ago, Flustered said:

A unified Scotland indeed

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9794316/Alex-Salmond-warning-over-Shetland-oil-after-independence.html

 

Under the two fishes leadership and arguments, the Shetlands would be perfectly entitled to independence away from Scotland and putting their lot in with the rest of the UK.

 

But then again, after the next general election, the SNP will be a much diminished force.

The big difference is that Shetland and Orkneys have never existed as independent states, nor do they have their own state institutions.

 

Also worth noting is that he islands are not as averse to the SNP as our Unionst press like to proclaim. In the 2015 GE the SNP came second, with the Lib Dems getting 41% of the votes and the SNP getting 38%, from an overall turnout of 66%. It will be interesting to see what happens next month, whether they re-elect their MP, who was found in a court of law to have lied about the Frenchgate memo and about breaking purdah, and tried to shift the blame onto an underling.

[RuamRudy]

There is a very interesting article here that goes some way to helping explain the drive behind the independence movement seen in recent years.

 

"When I went to Edinburgh to cover the Scottish Independence Referendum of 2014, I was ready with my tin hat. I expected a strong dose of anglo-phobia and was even worried about whipping out my English accent in pubs. Instead, I discovered a nation of Scandinavian social democrats determined to live in an oil rich, big state utopia like Norway. They envied “nanny states” like Sweden and Denmark and dreamt of a day they could follow them."

 

Unfortunately the meat of the article is behind a paywall, but you can read the full thing here.

[Flustered]

30 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

There is a very interesting article here that goes some way to helping explain the drive behind the independence movement seen in recent years.

 

"When I went to Edinburgh to cover the Scottish Independence Referendum of 2014, I was ready with my tin hat. I expected a strong dose of anglo-phobia and was even worried about whipping out my English accent in pubs. Instead, I discovered a nation of Scandinavian social democrats determined to live in an oil rich, big state utopia like Norway. They envied “nanny states” like Sweden and Denmark and dreamt of a day they could follow them."

 

Unfortunately the meat of the article is behind a paywall, but you can read the full thing here.

Merely one persons point of view with no facts behind it.

 

Rudy, you must understand one thing. It would be my best guess that the majority of English people would love Scotland to be independent. What gets up our goat is the constant vitriolic drippings coming out of the mouths of Mary Doll and Big Alex. They never have a civil word to say and from the very start are insulting and abusive. The SNP are seen as the mouthpiece of Scotland and as such, Scottish people are judged by what the SNP say and how the act.

 

Little wonder that so many people in England have become anti Scottish when attacked in this manner. You never hear TM bad mouthing the SNP leaders or any other member of the SNP so why are the SNP so insulting?

 

I for one will be very happy the day that Scotland gets it's independence.

[RuamRudy]

Merely one persons point of view with no facts behind it.
 
Rudy, you must understand one thing. It would be my best guess that the majority of English people would love Scotland to be independent. What gets up our goat is the constant vitriolic drippings coming out of the mouths of Mary Doll and Big Alex. They never have a civil word to say and from the very start are insulting and abusive. The SNP are seen as the mouthpiece of Scotland and as such, Scottish people are judged by what the SNP say and how the act.
 
Little wonder that so many people in England have become anti Scottish when attacked in this manner. You never hear TM bad mouthing the SNP leaders or any other member of the SNP so why are the SNP so insulting?
 
I for one will be very happy the day that Scotland gets it's independence.

Please provide some examples of insults and abusive statements that the SNP leadership have issued towards opposition politicians.

Any will do, but maybe those that, say, focus on their physical appearance (such as Mary Doll)?

[nontabury]

9 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

The big difference is that Shetland and Orkneys have never existed as independent states, nor do they have their own state institutions.

 

Also worth noting is that he islands are not as averse to the SNP as our Unionst press like to proclaim. In the 2015 GE the SNP came second, with the Lib Dems getting 41% of the votes and the SNP getting 38%, from an overall turnout of 66%. It will be interesting to see what happens next month, whether they re-elect their MP, who was found in a court of law to have lied about the Frenchgate memo and about breaking purdah, and tried to shift the blame onto an underling.

You forgot to mention that the Shetland and Orkneys were only part of a independent Scotland for 200yrs, while they've been part of the U.K for 300yrs. 

Perhaps it would be better for them to re-join their ancestral country,Norway.

 The same for Edinburgh, rejoining its ancestral home,the Kingdom of Northumbria, 

with it's capital the City of York. Now that would please Yorkshire folk such as Flustered.

 

 

 

[RuamRudy]

On ‎18‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 1:13 PM, RuamRudy said:

Please provide some examples of insults and abusive statements that the SNP leadership have issued towards opposition politicians.

Any will do, but maybe those that, say, focus on their physical appearance (such as Mary Doll)?

 

So, almost two days has passed and you have presented nothing to back up your claim:

 

On ‎18‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 11:45 AM, Flustered said:

What gets up our goat is the constant vitriolic drippings coming out of the mouths of Mary Doll and Big Alex. They never have a civil word to say and from the very start are insulting and abusive.

I noticed that, yesterday, you took umbrage at an inference of racism in your post on another thread, where you mentioned a Nigerian lady receiving NHS treatment when she went into labour, and that you requested evidence of said racism. In the absence of evidence to back up your statement here, can we expect a retraction of your claims about the FM and AS?

[Flustered]

41 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

So, almost two days has passed and you have presented nothing to back up your claim:

 

I noticed that, yesterday, you took umbrage at an inference of racism in your post on another thread, where you mentioned a Nigerian lady receiving NHS treatment when she went into labour, and that you requested evidence of said racism. In the absence of evidence to back up your statement here, can we expect a retraction of your claims about the FM and AS?

No and to compare an accusation of a racist slur to one of a comment on a politician bad mouthing another is below you and I would have expected better. I am flattered however that you follow my posts with such interest. maybe there is hope.

 

if you watched Nicola Sturgeon lately on the various news programs, she stands there with her hands on her hips fairly dripping vitriol as she attacks TMs policies. Not just disagreeing with them but positively aggressive.