Need a 800 sqm roof - Advice needed

[Anthony Loh]

We have been looking around for a warehouse to rent but it would cost us 1-1,5 million baht (100-150 baht/sqm) per year. If we can build this for just above 1 million, we would probably rent a piece of land and go for it....

 

Budget so far.... I have looked around and Thais are building roofs with much less material. Need to put some effort on the roof design and also add a few supports in between.

How much for concrete workers, welders and crane rent?

 

Amount Price Total Notes Concrete (m3) 170 1 600 272 000  - 20cm thick, Also Incl a 200 m3 water reservoir Bricks (pcs) 6 000 13 78 000   Colums (meters) 112 890 99 680   Insulated Roof Panels (m2) 1 140 180 205 200  - or 102 000 ininsolated Steel roof ? ? ?  - Any ide about price per ton? Doors, inner office walls ? ? ?   - We might build a platform 10x20m on 4 meters level for office and some storage. Work force ? ? ?  - 500 baht per day and head I have read, plausible or not? Machine/Crane rent ? ? ?  - What can a crane cost per day?           Total     654 880

To get the daily worker by your own to build; for skill worker is from 500 to 800 per day and for the helper is normally 350 to 400 per day. My advice is not to use daily worker unless some of your wife family members can help to supervise and they need to have basic in building works, is also very difficult to control daily worker in Thailand, End out, not effective at all and waste time also money wasted.

Materials costs is a bit sensitive as different location/shop have different prices . To check the price, is better to let your wife do the job and not you as a foreigner. If not, you can't get a good price.

To make things easygoing, I advice you to get few local contractors to quote for the factory and you can choose the best offer but you need to see also they back ground and manpower. As this is not a simple house, not the moo ban man can.

To me, one million batt, it should be enough but subjected to you as a owner. If you are renting the land, be careful of the paperwork. As you don't want to end up, build a free factory for the landlord.


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[Crossy]

All of the above ^^^.

 

AND

 

Don't forget that pretty well anywhere in Thailand a structure of this magnitude is going to need some form of planning permission and that will need drawings certified by a Thai structural engineer.

 

 

[harrry]

18 minutes ago, Crossy said:

All of the above ^^^.

 

AND

 

Don't forget that pretty well anywhere in Thailand a structure of this magnitude is going to need some form of planning permission and that will need drawings certified by a Thai structural engineer.

 

 

Do not forget that the government has compete plans for many structures including possibly this one which are allready approved.  In some cases they are close to free.  Getting planning permision  is not necescarily a straight forward process.

http://www.crossy.co.uk/Thai_House_Plans/

these are house ones someone :) has put online.  THre are ones for factories too but you will probably need a thai to find them.

 

I also notice that in your drawing you have a very low pitch angle...5 degreees or so at a guess  If a wind flies over that it will make a perfect airfoil.  I think it will need to be a lot steeper.

Edited March 20, 2017 by harrry

[inventorinthailand]

20 hours ago, Anthony Loh said:

If you are renting the land, be careful of the paperwork. As you don't want to end up, build a free factory for the landlord.


 

Yea, How to protect my right to the land? Have heard about "Usifrut" I that applyable in my case do you think? Heading out to look at two land lots right now.

[Naam]

3 minutes ago, inventorinthailand said:

Yea, How to protect my right to the land? Have heard about "Usifrut" I that applyable in my case do you think? Heading out to look at two land lots right now.

yes it is applicable. but it's up to the land office to grant or deny a usufruct. to draw up a pertaining contract you need a lawyer.

[Kwasaki]

23 hours ago, Anthony Loh said:

Thank you very much! Just for info, i have been working in construction and building for the pass 20 years as a manager. Completed 76 story condominium in Singapore with 1111 units and many other high rises project.

 

OK expert OP is not asking for 76 story condominium, he wants industrial factory type construction which companies in Thailand are capable of doing he already himself has his size and basic plan of what he wants, and from what he tells us now construction is the least of his problems.
It's a simple construction and nothing too difficult as said he needs quotes so he can pick chose the materials needs for costing.

l have built 100's of these buildings in my lifetime and managers are just a pain in the butt a lot of the time unless they have done hands on physical work themselves IMHO. 

 

[grollies]

On 20/03/2017 at 0:42 AM, inventorinthailand said:

6000 bricks later and more steel beams.... Need to work on the details and then run some load simulations and hopefully reduce the roof weight significantly. 

 

Picture-4

Looks like you've got it covered....

 

[Kwasaki]

16 hours ago, grollies said:

Looks like you've got it covered....

 

Aesthetically that's nice but not the less expensive way to do it. 

[Kwasaki]

On 3/20/2017 at 5:37 PM, harrry said:

I also notice that in your drawing you have a very low pitch angle...5 degreees or so at a guess

5 degree roof pitch will not be a problem. 

[Naam]

3 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

On 3/20/2017 at 5:37 PM, harrry said:

I also notice that in your drawing you have a very low pitch angle...5 degreees or so at a guess

5 degree roof pitch will not be a problem. 

the low pitch could cause problems in Isaan's winters when there is heavy snowfall which means additional load on the roof structure

[Kwasaki]

3 minutes ago, Naam said:

the low pitch could cause problems in Isaan's winters when there is heavy snowfall which means additional load on the roof structure

Nah !!  the OP can hold beginners skiing lessons on his roof. 

[grollies]

7 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Aesthetically that's nice but not the less expensive way to do it. 

Did that one go over your head?

 

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, grollies said:

Did that one go over your head?

 

Joking apart NO !!  Frankly the OP sounds like his over his head. 

[Crossy]

Ok, I think we've had enough discussion of aerodynamics.

 

Any roof, flat or not will generate lift to some degree, the structure must be capable of resisting this lift with an adequate safety factor. This is why we employ structural engineers.

 

 

[grollies]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

 

It's a typo, even this dumb Brit knows that.

 

Enough now, any more and I'll close the topic to further (not really getting anywhere anyway) discussion.

 

Aerodynamics are NOT the topic.

 

No, but it is about roof design and lift effect in high winds is pertinent to the topic.

 

My pool roof is bolted to 4 x 2ft sq. pillars, welded to the top of 4 x 4" concrete pillars and struts bolt to the bottom of the pillar.

 

I reckon the tiles would give way before lifting the steel frame (where's that fingers crossed emoticon?).

 

It has a 2m overhang from the support struts but I used carbon steel, not the galvy stuff. Steel sourced with certificate stating SMYS and I worked out the bending moments with a x3 safety factor.

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

Aerodynamics are NOT the topic.

 

Evidently this fell on deaf ears.

 

Closed

 

EDIT OK, I've cleaned up a lot of posts. We know the roof will generate lift, aerodynamic principles are not the subject of this thread. Let's stick to structural issues shall we.

 

Re-opened, but I'm watching, there are no second chances.

[Kwasaki]

On 3/24/2017 at 5:02 PM, grollies said:

No, but it is about roof design and lift effect in high winds is pertinent to the topic.

 

My pool roof is bolted to 4 x 2ft sq. pillars, welded to the top of 4 x 4" concrete pillars and struts bolt to the bottom of the pillar.

 

I reckon the tiles would give way before lifting the steel frame (where's that fingers crossed emoticon?).

 

It has a 2m overhang from the support struts but I used carbon steel, not the galvy stuff. Steel sourced with certificate stating SMYS and I worked out the bending moments with a x3 safety factor.

You could be right but be careful about the truth,

[grollies]

46 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

You could be right but be careful about the truth,

To be fair to Crossy he re-opened it.

[inventorinthailand]

Ok, playing around with a new software and using a more common roof design. Not sure if beams or trusses is the best way to build it in Thailand though. Added a 5x40=200sqm second office and storage floor as well. All parts bolted so it can be moved if needed as it will be built on a rented land.

 

 

Edited March 30, 2017 by inventorinthailand

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, inventorinthailand said:

Ok, playing around with a new software and using a more common roof design. Not sure if beams or trusses is the best way to build it in Thailand though. Added a 5x40=200sqm second office and storage floor as well. All parts bolted so it can be moved if needed as it will be built on a rented land.

 

 

Yep !!  very straight forward a Thai construction company could carry that out with no problem at all as long as said before you have the local gov's permission etc.

[sometimewoodworker]

The crane cost per day will depend on its lift capacity. The ones we used in our build for lifting the trusses and roofing materials were 12,000 Baht per day. The trusses we used were about 18 meters.

[inventorinthailand]

Getting quotations from China on a prefabricated steel building with sheet metal walls and roof for $35/sqm or $40/sqm for sandwich walls and roof with 2 normal door and 2 4x4m "garage doors". Anyone here who have order any similar from China and assembled here in Thailand?

[inventorinthailand]

One supplier, with the best price, is suggesting trusses instead of I-beams. They say that it is much cheaper and easier to assembly well here on site. The saving is $6000. 

 

Shipping cost is the same they say, but it seems that trusses would require much more container space.

 

Anyone here who can advice me here regarding this?

[sometimewoodworker]

47 minutes ago, inventorinthailand said:

One supplier, with the best price, is suggesting trusses instead of I-beams. They say that it is much cheaper and easier to assembly well here on site. The saving is $6000. 

 

Shipping cost is the same they say, but it seems that trusses would require much more container space.

 

Anyone here who can advice me here regarding this?

They might require more container space but would need less steel and be lighter weight 

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, inventorinthailand said:

Anyone here who can advice me here regarding this?

Wouldn't think so on DIY forum,  steel-work engineering web sites would be more useful IMO.

 

Don't understand why supplier would talk of space, if they say costs are the same.

 

 

[inventorinthailand]

2 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Wouldn't think so on DIY forum,  steel-work engineering web sites would be more useful IMO.

 

Don't understand why supplier would talk of space, if they say costs are the same.

 

 

Seems to be a few professionals here as well who might be able to help. And I did, as you suggested, posted in a structure steel forum so we if any answers :-)

[Kwasaki]

49 minutes ago, inventorinthailand said:

Seems to be a few professionals here as well who might be able to help. And I did, as you suggested, posted in a structure steel forum so we if any answers :-)

Yeah there's lots of information out there don't blame you for exhausting every avenue.

Out of interest what is the Unit for.

[sometimewoodworker]

On 20/04/2017 at 0:38 AM, inventorinthailand said:

Getting quotations from China on a prefabricated steel building with sheet metal walls and roof for $35/sqm or $40/sqm for sandwich walls and roof with 2 normal door and 2 4x4m "garage doors". Anyone here who have order any similar from China and assembled here in Thailand?

I know a little about someone who was building a steel framed house near Udon a few years ago. AFIR he paid for all the material and construction but had to abandon it ¾ built as the parts did not fit and it was too difficult and expensive to alter.

 

So unless the cost is at least !/2 the price (including building it) for a locally constructed building you may regret your choice. Quality control is a little difficult. 

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I know a little about someone who was building a steel framed house near Udon a few years ago. AFIR he paid for all the material and construction but had to abandon it ¾ built as the parts did not fit and it was too difficult and expensive to alter.

 

So unless the cost is at least !/2 the price (including building it) for a locally constructed building you may regret your choice. Quality control is a little difficult. 

OP is in a different ball park with reference to house build there's standard set fabricated steel sections set and made by companies for factory frames which are just adjusted to the steel design size.

 

Our house is two story part steel construction and the steel sections and roof beams were fabricated on site.

Your Udon someone must of had a incompetent builder,  your TV name suggests you know what you can do with wood if alterations are required, well it can done with steel also. 

[sometimewoodworker]

5 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Our house is two story part steel construction and the steel sections and roof beams were fabricated on site.

Your Udon someone must of had a incompetent builder,  your TV name suggests you know what you can do with wood if alterations are required, well it can done with steel also. 

Steel fabricated on site, or at least locally, can be adjusted if any problem develops and is the way to go. I did exactly that in my build.

 

The person in Udon was having the prefabricated structure put up by the company selling and making it.

 

I am well aware that you can make many more adjustments in steel than you can easily in wood. I would love to be able to make a board longer, a steel section can easily be made longer 

 

The potential problem comes with complete imported prefabricated structures. For sure you will be able to get competent welders to correct mistakes in fabricated sizes but that is where you start incurring significant extra costs and why the imported structure needs to be a lot cheaper to be a good idea.