Safest way to normalise high Blood Pressure

[jayboy]

2 hours ago, Oxx said:

 

Not that specific bran, but there are some generic versions of Atenolol available here.

Thanks.However I should have been clearer.I'm trying to find out whether the 25 mg size is available in Thailand as opposed to the 50 mg and 100 mg which are.Tenormin or any generic version of Atenolol is fine.

[Oxx]

11 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Thanks.However I should have been clearer.I'm trying to find out whether the 25 mg size is available in Thailand as opposed to the 50 mg and 100 mg which are.Tenormin or any generic version of Atenolol is fine.

 

Yes.  Prenolol [Berlin Pharm] and Tenrol [GIS Pharma], are both available as 25 mg tablets.

[jayboy]

 
Yes.  Prenolol [berlin Pharm] and Tenrol [GIS Pharma], are both available as 25 mg tablets.

Many thanks


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[xerostar]

Is Perindopril generally available in Thailand ?

I've been taking 4mg per day as prescribed in Australia

I tried asking for Perindopril at a few pharmacies but they didn't stock it.

I'm in Bang Kapi.

Any help appreciated

[Oxx]

34 minutes ago, xerostar said:

Is Perindopril generally available in Thailand ?

 

It's a specially controlled drug - only available on prescription.  The brand name available here is "Coversyl Arginine".

 

You'll need to make an appointment with an hospital consultant and buy from the hospital pharmacy.  Expect it to be expensive.

[xerostar]

Thanks for that info.

I think my BP just went up a bit more !

[MuntyC0re]

Diet
Exercise daily
CoQ10 is an antioxidant that plays an important role in protecting the heart. 
Garlic. Clinical trials have shown that long-acting garlic supplements have a modest but significant impact on blood pressure in people with high blood pressure.

[xerostar]

I went to Vejthani hospital in Lat Prao Rd Bang Kapi
Saw the doctor in cardio clinic who checked my BP etc and advised weight loss. Prescribed Coversyl 5mg daily. Medication 750 baht. Total cost 1550 baht.
Superb hospital building and very attentive friendly service.

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[saakura]

On 23/03/2017 at 2:04 PM, laislica said:

That is one of my strong points:

Nutrition and lifestyle should be firsl and drugs last!

 

Hi Laislica, how very true. But when one is young, you feel invincible and wisdom comes with age when damage may already be done.

[Lumbini]

Good start is : Loosing weight , daily exercise and getting glucose levels down by changing diet radically cutting glycemic foods and stopping snacking between main meals ( checking fasting blood glucose levels and A1C periodically as you make diet and lifestyle changes this is really helpful and I have meter and strips and check my fasting glucose at home every morning as keeping glucose levels down is key to preventing so many health issues and inflammation issues . Over half population in the west is diabetic or prediabetic and half of them don't know it . Work now to keep my fasting glucose levels well below 90 and my A1 C below 5 and also practice time restricted eating going 12hours of each day 8 pm to 8 am with no food with one 48 hour water fast every month to retrain my body to become more of a fat burner that sugar burner adding much more healthy fats to diet and not eating over 60 - 70 grams of protein a day and never more that 30 grams at one sitting as anything over that is turned to glucose.


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[Oxx]

32 minutes ago, Lumbini said:

Good start is : Loosing weight , daily exercise and getting glucose levels down by changing diet radically cutting glycemic foods and stopping snacking between main meals ( checking fasting blood glucose levels and A1C periodically as you make diet and lifestyle changes this is really helpful and I have meter and strips and check my fasting glucose at home every morning as keeping glucose levels down is key to preventing so many health issues and inflammation issues . Over half population in the west is diabetic or prediabetic and half of them don't know it . Work now to keep my fasting glucose levels well below 90 and my A1 C below 5 and also practice time restricted eating going 12hours of each day 8 pm to 8 am with no food with one 48 hour water fast every month to retrain my body to become more of a fat burner that sugar burner adding much more healthy fats to diet and not eating over 60 - 70 grams of protein a day and never more that 30 grams at one sitting as anything over that is turned to glucose.

 

Unscientific skcollob.

 

"stopping snacking between main meals" Snacking helps maintain stable blood sugar levels.

 

"half population in the west is diabetic or prediabetic" is utterly without foundation (though may be true for America).

 

"one 48 hour water fast every month to retrain my body" is mumbo jumbo.

 

"never more that 30 grams at one sitting as anything over that is turned to glucose" is pseudoscientific nonsense.

 

Doubtless this is all stuff and nonsense that you've read on the Internet.  Try reading peer reviewed articles from scientific journals instead.  You might learn something.

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2018 by Oxx

[Lumbini]

No it's things I have practiced for 18 months that changed my life ( especially glucose levels that were pre-diabetic before and got my blood pressure to optimal like never before and so much more . Don't believe me and cheat yourself out if the real experience [emoji106]

 

 

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[laislica]

3 hours ago, Oxx said:

 

Unscientific skcollob.

 

"stopping snacking between main meals" Snacking helps maintain stable blood sugar levels.

 

"half population in the west is diabetic or prediabetic" is utterly without foundation (though may be true for America).

 

"one 48 hour water fast every month to retrain my body" is mumbo jumbo.

 

"never more that 30 grams at one sitting as anything over that is turned to glucose" is pseudoscientific nonsense.

 

Doubtless this is all stuff and nonsense that you've read on the Internet.  Try reading peer reviewed articles from scientific journals instead.  You might learn something.

 

 

 

 

Firstly,  My I suggest that you read the post that started this thread?

Secondly,  Where to find a scientific review that is reliable in the first place, and then reviewed by reliable peers?

Would you be kind enough to provide some links.

 

IMHO, much of the science has been deliberately manipulated by excluding data or even falsifying data to get the required results.

 

As an example:

The current "Food pyramid" has been in use for 50-60 years, it was said to be scientifically proven by Dr Axel Keys that to eat in that way would solve all the heart conditions, diabetes, obesity etc., because it was dietary fat that was responsible for all those problems.

Indeed, food production by the farmers and manufacturers was radically altered to reduce fat in our diet.

Anecdotal evidence over those years clearly shows that the science was flawed because the incidence of those very diseases increased considerably over this period rather than decreasing.

 

I look forward to following the links to the peer reviewed articles from scientific journals that you provide.

 

I would like to learn more.

 

 

[Lumbini]

Try all the things I suggested ( they have no side effects like the drugs ) then recheck blood pressure as you do the action .

"Tomorrow you will wish you started today .... just do it - the talking , posting and thinking seems like a way to avoid the doing


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[mommysboy]

I recently had a short spell in hospital, which involved having my BP taken many, many times over a few days.  It was the usual complete muddle- ranging from 100-58 to 160-88.  

 

I took my doctor's advice (and Sheryl's) a few months ago and ditched the home monitor.  

 

It's more important to have a physical, take doc's advice, and maintain a reasonable lifestyle.

[laislica]

6 hours ago, mommysboy said:

I recently had a short spell in hospital, which involved having my BP taken many, many times over a few days.  It was the usual complete muddle- ranging from 100-58 to 160-88.  

 

I took my doctor's advice (and Sheryl's) a few months ago and ditched the home monitor.  

 

It's more important to have a physical, take doc's advice, and maintain a reasonable lifestyle.

 

 

For sure, a reasonable lifestyle is key to good health.

 

I too was in hospital for a few days in November: a kidney infection.

They also monitored and then just added some meds....

Then the numbers became stable and normal.

Not that numbers mean anything much.

As Sheryl said in an earlier post, BP meds only normalise the numbers but don't cure heart disease.

(Would possibly prevent some kidney problems and stroke though?)

[ignis]

Get fed up with Drs...  the leg and feet Dr cannot change medication, and for some reason the Diabetic Dr refuses to change medication !! [do have knee problems]

 

a 6 day stay in Hospital early last year [Stage 5 kidney problems] I was put on 5mg Amlopine a day...  only in October did I learn that the feet leg and knee swelling [great difficulty to walk] was most likely because of these BP tablets....

 

Last visit to Leg and feet Dr he said to ask my Diabetic Dr change this medication... + gave me another load of pills for the leg and feet problem......... 26th December Diabetic Dr yet again did not change and gave me another 90 x 5mg Amlopine  pills...

 

Since the 26 Dec, have not been taking them = can walk, can sleep, can even get upstairs to go to bed, very little swelling....  when the BP gets to 180/116 then I take a pill = goes down = more swelling on my feet... so now on 1 x 5mg Amlopine every 4th day..

 

Do I need to visit the Leg and feet Dr on the 22nd of this month ???  my foot was even bigger on Dec 26th when the Dr looked at it.. took photo on 30th

 

[tonray]

39 minutes ago, ignis said:

Get fed up with Drs...  the leg and feet Dr cannot change medication, and for some reason the Diabetic Dr refuses to change medication !! [do have knee problems]

 

a 6 day stay in Hospital early last year [Stage 5 kidney problems] I was put on 5mg Amlopine a day...  only in October did I learn that the feet leg and knee swelling [great difficulty to walk] was most likely because of these BP tablets....

 

Last visit to Leg and feet Dr he said to ask my Diabetic Dr change this medication... + gave me another load of pills for the leg and feet problem......... 26th December Diabetic Dr yet again did not change and gave me another 90 x 5mg Amlopine  pills...

 

Since the 26 Dec, have not been taking them = can walk, can sleep, can even get upstairs to go to bed, very little swelling....  when the BP gets to 180/116 then I take a pill = goes down = more swelling on my feet... so now on 1 x 5mg Amlopine every 4th day..

 

Do I need to visit the Leg and feet Dr on the 22nd of this month ???  my foot was even bigger on Dec 26th when the Dr looked at it.. took photo on 30th

 

If your BP rises to 180/116 you are in serious danger of organ damage as, well as heart attack and stroke. You say you have kidney issues.. Are you under the care of a specialist  ?

[ignis]

27 minutes ago, tonray said:

If your BP rises to 180/116 you are in serious danger of organ damage as, well as heart attack and stroke. You say you have kidney issues.. Are you under the care of a specialist  ?

Before visiting the Diabetic Dr have to be at the Hospital @ 6 am to have blood tests 4 sometime 5 vials are taken + Pee test, Dr says all is under control .. every 3 months.

[Sheryl]

That leg definitely needs to be seen by a doctor, and as soon as possible.  While amlodipine can indeed cause swelling in the legs what you have seems to be in one leg only and it also looks inflammed. Do not delay. You coulkd have a cellulitis (tissue infection) or blood clot.

 

Regarding the side effects of the amlodipine, ask your doctor about combining amlodipone with an angiotensin receptor blocker like losartan, this combination seems to result in both good BP control and fewer side effects for some patients

 

And since you seem unhappy with your doctors why not change to other doctors, find ones more responsive to your concerns? that would be wiser than simply ignoring their prescribed treatments...especially given that you suffer from some serious chronic conditions.

 

 

[ignis]

11 hours ago, Sheryl said:

That leg definitely needs to be seen by a doctor, and as soon as possible.  While amlodipine can indeed cause swelling in the legs what you have seems to be in one leg only and it also looks inflammed. Do not delay. You coulkd have a cellulitis (tissue infection) or blood clot.

 

Regarding the side effects of the amlodipine, ask your doctor about combining amlodipone with an angiotensin receptor blocker like losartan, this combination seems to result in both good BP control and fewer side effects for some patients

 

And since you seem unhappy with your doctors why not change to other doctors, find ones more responsive to your concerns? that would be wiser than simply ignoring their prescribed treatments...especially given that you suffer from some serious chronic conditions.

 

 

Many thanks Sheryl..  just a few points.. No not a blood clot, had twice had a full scan of the blood vain's [2 hours on the table] + some other scan for bones...      since 26 Dec have stopped taking Amlopine every day = now 6 weeks on both legs and feet look near the same with just a little swelling...  but = high BP ...  The Doctors are at the Hospital [Red Cross BKK] are not always the same ones..  The Hospital is a pain but told very lucky to be accepted,  to get there for 6 am must leave home at 03:45, now the Metro + Purple line are connected no longer take the car, next door both the Husband and wife work at that Hospital for over 20 years so get a lift in with them and get public transport back.. 

I wear thigh length elastic stocking in the day + diabetic shoes when going out...  I see the Diabetic Foot Dr every 6 months [6 floor] see the Foot and leg Drs [5th floor] every 3 months and the blood test and Diabetic Dr [13 th + 1st floor] every 3 months.  so many Drs look and prod my legs and feet.

 

Maybe the Dr did help [was a male Dr never seen before] the only thing changed was my Insulin from 'NovoMix'  to something I have not had before called 'Mixtard'   no idea if that would make BP difference or foot leg swelling to go down.? 

 

Just taken pic

 

[laislica]

12 hours ago, Sheryl said:

That leg definitely needs to be seen by a doctor, and as soon as possible.  While amlodipine can indeed cause swelling in the legs what you have seems to be in one leg only and it also looks inflammed. Do not delay. You coulkd have a cellulitis (tissue infection) or blood clot.

 

Regarding the side effects of the amlodipine, ask your doctor about combining amlodipone with an angiotensin receptor blocker like losartan, this combination seems to result in both good BP control and fewer side effects for some patients

 

And since you seem unhappy with your doctors why not change to other doctors, find ones more responsive to your concerns? that would be wiser than simply ignoring their prescribed treatments...especially given that you suffer from some serious chronic conditions.

 

 

 

Now my age is 76.

Well of course, I'm not a doctor but I do remember what doctors used to be and how they have changed.

When I was young, our family saw one doctor who dealt with all health issues.

He knew quite a lot about everything.

Over the years this has changed and doctors are specialised.

Generally, they know everything about one subject.

Now we have to see a heart specialist, an oncologist a urologist, brain specialists etc.

Doctors are also only allowed to use approved treatments (protocols).

So in some ways it's better and in others, maybe not so good.

 

I had hip problems, worn joints as can be seen on the x-rays.

The doctor prescribed very powerful pain killers with side effects to ruin my stomach if taken for a long time.

 

I thought about that and came to some conclusions.

That I must not rely on meds to keep me pain free, I needed to make some life style changes.

After all, if I stop being able to digest food as well as I can now, I may become undernourished and then get a whole load more health problems.

 

I was overweight so lowered my intake of carbohydrates and gradually lost a little weight.

Just that was a great help to my hips.

In Thailand we can buy fresh coriander so my wife added that to my daily stir fried veggies.

I love the taste and it has helped to reduce general inflammation in my body and I don't have pain in my hips as a general rule.

I can still walk everywhere on our days out, something I couldn't do 2 or 3 years ago!.

 

March 2017 we both had extensive medical checkups in a hospital.

I had kidney stones.

We spend the summer in Spain and in June, I started taking large doses of vitamin C, Ascorbic Acid.

I found that in large doses the acid was too much so I added a dash of bicarbonate of soda.

It fizzed a bit but it was no longer acidic and easier to take.

I would make up a carafe with 1 liter if water and 6-12 grams of vitamin C powder (suitably buffered with the bi-carb) and sip it during the day.

You see, I had read that this might cause the kidney stones to shrink so I thought, what harm can vitamin C do apart from causing diarrhea?

 

In November I had a kidney infection and stayed a few days in hospital in Spain.

They did lots of tests, including ultrasound and said that there were no kidney stones....

Maybe the stones started to move and they can be very sharp.

Maybe they made a few cuts in the kidney and that caused the infection? No one really knows.

 

So, thinking about your situation.

Because you are taking obviously powerful meds if I were you, I would be careful about taking "home remedies" because they may interact badly with your prescribed meds.

I would change doctors as Sheryl wisely suggests and I would ensure that both doctors were fully informed as to what treatment they were each prescribing because I feel that it is better if they work co-operatively.

 

I would ask about turmeric in your diet, not as a supplement, but as a whole food (don't be supprised if they don't know so much about turmeric, for this you need another specialist - a Nutritionist).

I would also increase the amount of natural vitamin C in my daily diet from fruit and vegetables and I would ensure that the doctors are aware of my thinking on these matters.

I would also ask if there were any life style changes that they could recommend to help me improve my conditions.

I say this because in the OP, I told this story:-

"In my early 40’s my blood pressure was seen as a little high.

The nurse at work said that it was marginal for needing medication.

However, my GP prescribed 100mg Atenalol and the numbers fell from 139/95 to the ideal of 120/80.

Some 15 years later I went on a 6 week juice diet to detox and I lost 25Kg.

During this time, I observed that my BP started to become too low so I only took half the pill.

As I lost more weight and became healthier, my BP continued to be too low so I took a quarter of the pill, eventually only a fifth.

I visited my GP and discussed this with him.

He told me to stop taking Atenalol because 20mg was not a therapeutic dose, and congratulations.

It seems that I had changed my life style, lost the excessive weight, got healthier so my body Fixed itself!"

 

Mostly, I would control my thinking.

I would stay calm and not spend time worrying because it raises your stress levels.

That causes you to have more stress hormones and if they persist for too long, they can cause health issues.

 

I did say life style changes but who really makes changes for life?

OK, I stopped smoking aged 30, but that was fairly easy because I don't need the smokes to live.

I gave them up totally, but I can't give up food!

 

So over the years, I have regained weight and got older.

Then I'm back on the meds.

Then eventually I stop making excuses and start to resist temptation, start to eat less carbohydrates and gradually lose weight which in turn helps my hips and my blood pressure.

 

The getting older is perhaps the real problem and no one can do anything about that!  hee hee.

Like my car, things start to wear out...

Don't ask about my night vision or prostate or .....

 

It's not easy and there is no "one size fits all"  as a solution to everyone's problems.

So all the best of luck to you, keep on keeping on!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Redcurry]

Hmm....lose some weigh, exercise, not getting angry, keep calm, all can help!  

[laislica]

So, returned to Thailand mid January.

Cut out bread and all products with flour, cut out all dairy and continued with veggies and a little chicken.

Only had about one bottle of beer per week, (apart from a week in Pattaya when I had lots LOL)

 

4 weeks later, weight had dropped a tiny bit (now just under 74Kg) but BP was now low.

I took half a pill, still too low.

Next day, half a pill, still too low.

Stopped the pill and BP is normal and has been for a week now.

 

My veggie diet includes some fruit but I try not to eat too much.

(Hard when my wife brings plates full of delicious fruit.....)

Letting unsolicited food go to waste seems to have got the message through though!

 

Also, since returning I have been to a Wat three times and used their Sauna on a Sunday morning.

 

Effectively I have been on a low calorie diet for about 6 weeks.

Food cravings are considerably less.

 

I am now tempted to do a fast for a day or two per month....

I wonder if it will help reduce my large prostate?
I mention this because, since the last couple of weeks, my nightly number of trips to the loo have reduced somewhat.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rimbuman]

18 hours ago, laislica said:

So, returned to Thailand mid January.

Cut out bread and all products with flour, cut out all dairy and continued with veggies and a little chicken.

Only had about one bottle of beer per week, (apart from a week in Pattaya when I had lots LOL)

 

4 weeks later, weight had dropped a tiny bit (now just under 74Kg) but BP was now low.

I took half a pill, still too low.

Next day, half a pill, still too low.

Stopped the pill and BP is normal and has been for a week now.

 

My veggie diet includes some fruit but I try not to eat too much.

(Hard when my wife brings plates full of delicious fruit.....)

Letting unsolicited food go to waste seems to have got the message through though!

 

Also, since returning I have been to a Wat three times and used their Sauna on a Sunday morning.

 

Effectively I have been on a low calorie diet for about 6 weeks.

Food cravings are considerably less.

 

I am now tempted to do a fast for a day or two per month....

I wonder if it will help reduce my large prostate?
I mention this because, since the last couple of weeks, my nightly number of trips to the loo have reduced somewhat.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think it will help already what you do, check Dr. Morse on youtube, he's amazing. All about all fruit and regenerative healing, well worth to look into. To find out about the benefits and how to do fasting right you could start with this and search on, you'll be able to find a lot of information about dry-fasting on the web. For example this one young guy's explanation 

 

 

[Oxx]

4 hours ago, Rimbuman said:

I think it will help already what you do, check Dr. Morse on youtube, he's amazing.

 

I think that should have been "amazing quack".

 

He has no medication training or qualification.  His website lists his education as being in "Naturopathy, Naturopathic Medicine, Biochemistry, Iridology, Reflexology, Nutrition & Fitness, and as a Master Herbalist."

 

He is a proponent of nonsense such as "detoxification" and dangerous beliefs such as "medicine ... has no curative value. "

 

He may sincerely believe that his expensive tinctures and teas are effective, but for patients they most certainly aren't.  The only thing they're effective for is swelling "Dr" Morse's bank balance.

[Sheryl]

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