Australian who fled accident scene and was chased by police hits and kills woman 50 in Udon

[ben2talk]

10 hours ago, MaxYakov said:

Watched the CCTV video several times. The Aussie appeared to be speeding and also appeared to be near the center of the road. The victim underestimated its speed and/or her ability to accelerate out of its way  (providing she even saw the pickup).

 

I, long ago, resolved to not operate motor vehicles on the road in Thailand. I ride a bicycle and would never have attempted what the victim did. For one thing she entered the road without due caution, IMHO. If I rode my bicycles like that, I would have been a victim long ago and would not be here to write this.

 

Yes, I'd put the blame on the bike - it's very hard sometimes to drive defensively at any speed, otherwise you end up just stopping and letting everyone else drive... it's why it often takes 30 minutes to get out of a junction, and why you end up with queues because nobody will 'merge' traffic, they always stop to let everyone else go first...

 

22 minutes ago, anto said:

She payed for it with her life .Mr .Joel McGregor will also pay one way or another .

She's dead, she paid nothing, it's the rest of her family that are paying. Those poor kids spent countless hours suffering Thai education for this moment... for them it's probably a blessed relief... 

 

And the most amazing thing is that, even after everyone's been forced to see this video I'll probably see exactly the same stupid aggressive idiots, jugglers replying to Facebook pages on phones and making right turns simultaneously, and middle aged women on bikes with schoolkids squeezed in and hands permanently holding the brake levers ready to panic and fall off.

 

Compulsory driver education is the only way to improve this situation - and some real response by Traffic Police to dangerous driving which doesn't end up with an accident would be a welcome start (maybe just a few cruisers to start, see how it goes).

 

Until the police actually decide that reason-free rule enforcement isn't the best solution (like taking out a crowd and finding a section of road where you can catch bikes out riding in the middle, or not wearing helmets) then nothing will improve. Thai's love rules above all else.

[giddyup]

10 minutes ago, JustNo said:

I honestly have no idea wha your issue is here, you have the a symbol of the Buddha Dharma in your profile pic but you are not acting so wise my friend. She was also at fault but at a far lesser level. He was literally in a police chase fleeing from the law, speeding, cutting corners and possibly intoxicated. Is he your Daddy or something? I don't get it 

You don't get that I think the woman has to share some responsibility? Well, let's leave it at that shall we?

[NanLaew]

18 hours ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

She went over into the wrong lane on a blind curve and was hit by an erratic pick-up driver.

 

You bang on with the usual "you don't spend time here" and "you don't drive here" apologist nonsense though, the video evidence clearly shows she was not entirely blameless. 

When one wants to cross over a 2-way street, one has to cross at least one lane the 'wrong' way. AFAIK there's nothing illegal there and people do it all over the world in all sorts of vehicles. Some even do it on foot. As explained earlier, she tried to 'shoot the gap' but she didn't factor the speed of the pickup truck into this as nobody drives down that road anywhere near the estimated 100 kph. Even bikes won't get around those bends at 80 kph.

 

It has nothing to with being an apologist.

 

To bang on about blind bends that do not exist is ignorance.

 

To blame the victims for this is quite sickening. 

Edited June 27, 2017 by NanLaew

[ben2talk]

2 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

To blame the victims for this is quite sickening. 

Sure, never blame anyone who rides a bike straight under the wheels of an oncoming pickup.

It's quite right that they should only ever look left, and never check to the right before pulling out, right?

[Artisi]

10 minutes ago, ben2talk said:

Sure, never blame anyone who rides a bike straight under the wheels of an oncoming pickup.

It's quite right that they should only ever look left, and never check to the right before pulling out, right?

Do you mean to say that they actually look at all? 

[ben2talk]

Just now, Artisi said:

Do you mean to say that they actually look at all? 

Quite a lot of them (especially in cars) are looking at their phones... the ones on bikes are usually looking somewhere, but they don't really check both ways so well.

 

I'd put money on it - this woman was watching for traffic coming from the left when she pulled out. I'd also stick my neck out and say that the truck isn't really going much faster than the bike we saw in the opening seconds of the video going in the same direction... 

[NanLaew]

4 minutes ago, ben2talk said:

Sure, never blame anyone who rides a bike straight under the wheels of an oncoming pickup.

It's quite right that they should only ever look left, and never check to the right before pulling out, right?

The two underage girls on a motorbike that t-boned our car at 10 PM about 3 years ago and both ended up in hospital with life-changing injuries probably still blame us and not their unlicensed, uninsured, unlit and totally illegal dash through a red light. Rather than blame himself for allowing them to borrow the bike, their father probably still blames us for the fact that he wasn't able to buy accident insurance at the ER after the accident.

 

What I have been trying to say is here in Thailand where laws are not enforced and driver education is non-existent, one learns... no one HAS to make allowances. When I drive that road, I make allowances for motorbikes that short cut across the SRT yard and squeeze through the railings. The police, city management and SRT aren't about to block that gap are they? So I make allowances for it. When one is under the influence and fleeing the scene of earlier accidents at high speed, your ability to make these very necessary everyday driving allowances is somewhat 'out the window'.

 

If this lady had planted her bike into another bike or been hit by a slower, sober driver, then yes, it would be som nam na and that's what you get for being born and brought up in a country that is culturally moribund, morally bankrupt and discounts the value of your life because of your skin color, your accent and ultimate place in society. But she and the kid that died didn't get that option did they? 

 

I don't really see how anyone can feel good about defending the indefensible or feel in the least bit comforted by blaming these victims.

[MaxYakov]

Has anyone actually seen a chase of a motor vehicle by the RTP? Been here eight years with a lot of road time and I never have. I did see an RTP pillion rider officer jump off the bike and do a foot chase of a "person of interest". That's about it.

 

The CCTV indicates that if the pickup were actually being chased by the police, they were quite a distance behind him since he had several seconds following the collision until they arrived (to shoot out his tires).

[NanLaew]

7 minutes ago, MaxYakov said:

Has anyone actually seen a chase of a motor vehicle by the RTP? Been here eight years with a lot of road time and I never have. I did see an RTP pillion rider officer jump off the bike and do a foot chase of a "person of interest". That's about it.

 

The CCTV indicates that if the pickup were actually being chased by the police, they were quite a distance behind him since he had several seconds following the collision until they arrived (to shoot out his tires).

You are correct, in this incident, there was no 'hot pursuit'. He was intent on placing as much distance between himself and any pursuit including leaving the main road and taking this route which leads onto narrower lanes with many junctions and cross roads.

 

On your first question, there was a really good YouTube last year of a high speed pursuit by a Thai cop on a CBR250 that went on for at least 3 minutes. He had a helmet cam and when he caught up with the guy, shooting out the tires was his first action.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

34 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

The two underage girls on a motorbike that t-boned our car at 10 PM about 3 years ago and both ended up in hospital with life-changing injuries probably still blame us and not their unlicensed, uninsured, unlit and totally illegal dash through a red light. Rather than blame himself for allowing them to borrow the bike, their father probably still blames us for the fact that he wasn't able to buy accident insurance at the ER after the accident.

 

What I have been trying to say is here in Thailand where laws are not enforced and driver education is non-existent, one learns... no one HAS to make allowances. When I drive that road, I make allowances for motorbikes that short cut across the SRT yard and squeeze through the railings. The police, city management and SRT aren't about to block that gap are they? So I make allowances for it. When one is under the influence and fleeing the scene of earlier accidents at high speed, your ability to make these very necessary everyday driving allowances is somewhat 'out the window'.

 

If this lady had planted her bike into another bike or been hit by a slower, sober driver, then yes, it would be som nam na and that's what you get for being born and brought up in a country that is culturally moribund, morally bankrupt and discounts the value of your life because of your skin color, your accent and ultimate place in society. But she and the kid that died didn't get that option did they? 

 

I don't really see how anyone can feel good about defending the indefensible or feel in the least bit comforted by blaming these victims.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with your well written assessment; I drive from Cha-am to Hua Hin several times a week on the Phetkasem Road (4) 

 

…. it is 3 lanes each way with an additional “motorcycle lane" a central reservation and many U-Turns. Motorcycles, scooters, old ladies with their 3 wheelers selling somtum and gai yang, and sometimes cars, are usually driving the wrong way against the flow in the motorcycle lane. It is what they do, I don’t  get angry about it, I understand it, accept it, and make allowances for it.

 

The U-Turns are, as everyone knows, extremely dangerous by design, especially on this road which is straight and consequently fast flowing. I always adopt the middle lane approaching U-Turns and allow my speed to reduce as my foot hovers over the brake pedal in anticipation. There will often be some bodacious young gun willing to make a risky dash for it, and being able to say he was in the wrong, if I ever wiped one out, would  not prevent me from thinking about it every day for the rest of my life.

 

For me it is not about the illegality of road use by Thai people in Thailand, or being judgmental about the fact that many sensible road laws are just not enforced; it is about accepting the status quo, hoping it will change, but making allowances for the fact that it probably won't  …… trying to keep myself and other road users safe in this country that I love and choose to live in

[Eloquent pilgrim]

13 minutes ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

Unfortunately 'making allowances' and 'loving the country' will not and does not prevent road accident fatalities due to the utter stupidity of the locals.

 

Good luck with trying to 'keep road users safe', you'll definitely need it as no-one else seems to give a ****, least of all the Thais themselves.

Thank you kindly for your advice. I can only act and live in a way that  I deem to be right. I am not so naive as to think that my way of conducting myself will change or influence others. I am also not willing to change how I act because of the way someone else acts or thinks if I believe them to be fundamentally wrong ……. that includes your good self, but thanks anyway 

 

P.S. …. you seem to have an unhealthily poor opinion of Thailand and Thai people; do you live here, and if so why ?? 

 

PEACE ✌️✌️ ?? ?

[JustNo]

2 hours ago, giddyup said:

You don't get that I think the woman has to share some responsibility? Well, let's leave it at that shall we?

I have never said that she is not at fault, my point is that she is now dead so whatever fault she owns has now been taken with her to her grave. This Aussie bloke is in my opinion more at fault and he is still alive, so he is able to be brought to justice and should be quite rightly so. 

Think of it in simple terms. His Karma or 'Kamma' which is basically just 'action' or conscious decisions in motion with intention, was of a negative and selfish origin, shrouded in ignorance and recklessness. He fled from the police at crazy speeds on that specific road, without any care for others on that road clearly. And as a result of his Kamma, some very negative repercussions have transpired, and now that Kamma is coming back to him. You reap the harvest of the seeds you sow 

Edited June 27, 2017 by JustNo

[giddyup]

15 minutes ago, JustNo said:

I have never said that she is not at fault, my point is that she is now dead so whatever fault she owns has now been taken with her to her grave. This Aussie bloke is in my opinion more at fault and he is still alive, so he is able to be brought to justice and should be quite rightly so. 

Think of it in simple terms. His Karma or 'Kamma' which is basically just 'action' or conscious decisions in motion with intention, was of a negative and selfish origin, shrouded in ignorance and recklessness. He fled from the police at crazy speeds on that specific road, without any care for others on that road clearly. And as a result of his Kamma, some very negative repercussions have transpired, and now that Kamma is coming back to him. You reap the harvest of the seeds you sew 

You reap the harvest of the seeds you sew 

Try sow.

[NanLaew]

2 minutes ago, giddyup said:

You reap the harvest of the seeds you sew 

Try sow.

Heads up everyone!

 

Spelling police on duty!!

 

 

Edited June 27, 2017 by NanLaew

[JustNo]

8 minutes ago, giddyup said:

You reap the harvest of the seeds you sew 

Try sow.

Sorry for being imperfect and making a 1 letter typo 

[giddyup]

5 minutes ago, JustNo said:

Sorry for being imperfect and making a 1 letter typo 

A typo, or mispelled. Only you know.

Edited June 27, 2017 by giddyup

[owl sees all]

29 minutes ago, JustNo said:

Think of it in simple terms. His Karma or 'Kamma' which is basically just 'action' or conscious decisions in motion with intention, was of a negative and selfish origin, shrouded in ignorance and recklessness. He fled from the police at crazy speeds on that specific road, without any care for others on that road clearly. And as a result of his Kamma, some very negative repercussions have transpired, and now that Kamma is coming back to him. You reap the harvest of the seeds you sew 

This Karma stuff does not seem simple to me!

 

He was driving recklessly and she was driving without due care and consideration for herself and her passengers' safety.

 

End result?! A tragedy!!

 

Edited June 27, 2017 by owl sees all

[NanLaew]

11 minutes ago, giddyup said:

A typo, or mispelled. Only you know.

...and only you care.

[ben2talk]

1 hour ago, JustNo said:

Sorry for being imperfect and making a 1 letter typo 

Sure, but thank you so much for pointing out that we've been spelling 'Kamma' so badly wrong for so long. Need to update my spellchecker to auto-replace 'karma' from here on.

 

Impossible to imagine a typo where we replace the Right hand middle finger 'o' with a left hand middle finger 'e' on the keyboard.

Try typing it - key koy key koy... laughable.

 

Just wait for the mods to remove the off-topic spam.

Edited June 27, 2017 by ben2talk

[Laab Muu]

3 hours ago, NanLaew said:

The two underage girls on a motorbike that t-boned our car at 10 PM about 3 years ago and both ended up in hospital with life-changing injuries probably still blame us and not their unlicensed, uninsured, unlit and totally illegal dash through a red light. Rather than blame himself for allowing them to borrow the bike, their father probably still blames us for the fact that he wasn't able to buy accident insurance at the ER after the accident.

 

All your statement does is highlight some peoples refusal to take on personal responsibility and their need to always be a victim. People make their own choices, and people then need to take responsibility for the results of those choices. Having a forum mostly inhabited by foreign residents and visitors intent on excusing locals of taking responsibility for their actions is a curious thing, and screams of people wanting to be 'accepted' at any cost, even if that cost is throwing all logic out of the window. Imagine if this had happened in your home town, in your home country. What would be the reaction? 

Edited June 27, 2017 by Laab Muu

[JustNo]

2 hours ago, owl sees all said:

This Karma stuff does not seem simple to me!

 

He was driving recklessly and she was driving without due care and consideration for herself and her passengers' safety.

 

End result?! A tragedy!!

 

Karma isn't mystical, it isn't an entity or 'punishment / reward' - it is simply cause and effect through a conscious decision. if you have a negative cause or action, you will most likely end up with a negative outcome, be it gross or subtle. And it doesn't have to be a physical outcome, you may be left with negative thoughts which will impact your emotion and state of mind. It's pretty simple. 

And so yes both parties made negative choices here but 1 is dead and cannot be bought to justice, the other is alive and so will and should be brought to justice. 

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Laab Muu said:

All your statement does is highlight some peoples refusal to take on personal responsibility and their need to always be a victim. People make their own choices, and people then need to take responsibility for the results of those choices. Having a forum mostly inhabited by foreign residents and visitors intent on excusing locals of taking responsibility for their actions is a curious thing, and screams of people wanting to be 'accepted' at any cost, even if that cost is throwing all logic out of the window. Imagine if this had happened in your home town, in your home country. What would be the reaction? 

 

'Throwing logic out the window'. 'I'll put my crash helmet on when I'm going to have an accident'.

 

 

'I have to sit my friends at uni and talk and be part of the gang' (Mostly female students.)

Never mind getting 'C' for very course, then asking the professor if it's possible to do extra assignments to improve her grade. Answer is no and the student considers it unfair.

 

No acceptance whatever that her personal actions are responsible for her 'C' grading.

Edited June 27, 2017 by scorecard

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, Laab Muu said:

All your statement does is highlight some peoples refusal to take on personal responsibility and their need to always be a victim. People make their own choices, and people then need to take responsibility for the results of those choices. Having a forum mostly inhabited by foreign residents and visitors intent on excusing locals of taking responsibility for their actions is a curious thing, and screams of people wanting to be 'accepted' at any cost, even if that cost is throwing all logic out of the window. Imagine if this had happened in your home town, in your home country. What would be the reaction? 

My statement doesn't refer in any way to the initial anger and frustration we experienced of having an otherwise nice evening buggered up by "irresponsible locals." This wasn't tempered by the foot-dragging police and the pathetic victims 'krieng jai' and 'song sahn'  that prevails in a country where you rightly point out, nobody accepts responsibility for their actions. But after about three weeks (which apparently is the usual time it takes for a local insurance company to completely satisfy all parties involved) it all went away, no extra considerations or expenses.

 

But why would I have bothered to mention it? I do not (never have and never will) assume to be on any path to 'Thainess' but maybe you confuse me with someone who says they love Thailand. I don't. I am not about making excuses for their lack of law enforcement and the type of behavior it spawns in all aspects of life here. It has bugger all to do with being accepted here: I do not need to be accepted here. It is not my home. What I have said before and will say again is that to get by here, one does have to accommodate what we see as their shortcomings and make allowances. Whether that manifests itself as biting my tongue when someone pushes in at the check-out or braking to allow a motorbike to cut in in busy traffic, so be it. I am not condoning their bad habits but I am damn sure I am not going to waste my time and make an exhibition of myself by harrumphing at the check out or leaning on the horn like some would. Remember, Thailand traditionally doesn't have any doormats. Get over it.

 

Yes, this forum is chock full of foreigners, mostly living here. But that doesn't convey them any right to challenge the way the locals behave does it? It certainly doesn't grant them any rights to try and change things that's for sure. Anyone that thinks that "if we all work together, we can change their ways" needs to reconsider why they need  to be in control. You cannot ever be in control here, but you can have a heart attack trying.

 

Finally, none of this did happen in either my home town or home country nor yours where I assume broadly similar sensible law and order prevails. Why bring that up?

[Boycie]

8 hours ago, anto said:

She payed for it with her life .Mr .Joel McGregor will also pay one way or another .

I believe the driver of the pick-up is a Mr. Joel Niven McGarry

[anto]

Just now, Boycie said:

I believe the driver of the pick-up is a Mr. Joel Niven McGarry

Another Forum they gave McGregor  and somebody else did say McGarry .I have never heard the name McGarry but McGregor is quite common ,so i go for McGregor ,as most likely to be correct .

[balo]

McGarry also has a Facebook page , Australian with links to Thailand. 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2017 by balo

[bannork]

3 hours ago, Laab Muu said:

All your statement does is highlight some peoples refusal to take on personal responsibility and their need to always be a victim. People make their own choices, and people then need to take responsibility for the results of those choices. Having a forum mostly inhabited by foreign residents and visitors intent on excusing locals of taking responsibility for their actions is a curious thing, and screams of people wanting to be 'accepted' at any cost, even if that cost is throwing all logic out of the window. Imagine if this had happened in your home town, in your home country. What would be the reaction? 

This is not your home town or home country, we're not in Kansas now, We're in Thailand where industrialization arrived at breakneck speed.

The rapid growth, boom, of the Thai economy in the 1980s and 90s meant millions of people purchased motorbikes and now pick-ups without any driving instruction. They just learnt on the road, the result of which is a high accident rate but also an unwritten code where people get used to motorbikes, carts going against the traffic, pulling across , cutting in front.

Unfortunately on that day the lady and her son and nephew on the motorbike came across an idiot  in a pick-up driving way too fast in an attempt to avoid getting caught for his previous collisions. She probably saw him out of the corner of her eye but didn't register the speed he was going at on that stretch of the road. that was her fatal error.

[NanLaew]

34 minutes ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

Offshore worker. Thought he looked familiar. 

But the picture on the LinkedIn page isn't close to what we see of him in the post-accident pictures.

 

Maybe he hadn't updated it for a while.

[Laab Muu]

4 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

But the picture on the LinkedIn page isn't close to what we see of him in the post-accident pictures.

 

Maybe he hadn't updated it for a while.

It would be ironic if it is his page cosidering his personal statement, part of which I have quoted below. ?

 

 

"I also excel at finding innovative solutions to complex problems. This is not only referring to the analytical way that I address regular issues that come up frequently, but also the cool head that I use to handle emergency situations calmly and with great focus on lowering risk and fixing the problem rapidly."

 

[anto]

3 minutes ago, Laab Muu said:

It would be ironic if it is his page cosidering his personal statement, part of which I have quoted below. ?

 

 

"I also excel at finding innovative solutions to complex problems. This is not only referring to the analytical way that I address regular issues that come up frequently, but also the cool head that I use to handle emergency situations calmly and with great focus on lowering risk and fixing the problem rapidly."

 

True ,he will soon be able to add to his resume ,infamous throughout Thailand .