Chiangmai Forum Get Togethers

[meadish_sweetball]

Those were not just any burgers, they were supreme quality burgers, the best I've had in Chiang Mai.

Great get-together meeting yesterday! I will definitely revisit Mango Tree, to enjoy the delicious food as well as the company of the great hosts.

[francois]

hi' all

I'll definitely come back there for future meetings & food..

it's all said in those words

I did not expect so many people when this restart was setup, and p1p was surprised like me ... happily

the evening was simply great, happy to meet all of you, and dearly hope that these meetings will now go on by friendly and easy basis, just come to meet some other members, have a nice dinner or just pop up for a drink to say hello.

like ctg told me, we have more in common that what we think, but ctg will say this better than me don't you?

this last meeting made my day

thanks to you all, and see you there next time .. some other wenesday or friday.

cheers to you all

francois

ps; I have to add this, p1p asked me "how did I do?" ...

I'm for nothing in here, I just made another appointment and it worked out this time ...

and it was like an asking from a member .. so we all tried to make it happen this time.

WE ALL made this happening

[Ajarn]

Last night was great. Everyone was so friendly and warm to each other.

I'm glad I came out of my cave long enough to meet some really nice folks. Hope to see y'all again soon

[Georgie-Porgie]

I am a Mango Tree customer. I enjoy the food, the staff and the atmosphere, however, let's face it, the real fun is afterwords, out on the street.

All these ######s going on about Loi Kroh being "sleazy", should be forced to go live in the American suburbs for the rest of their lives and leave the fun-loving , open-minded expats who've retired here alone.

You puritanical, fascist, phonies can pretend to be as "wholesome" as you want out there in Alabama, and you will have lots of red-neck, born again, Christian hypocrites for company.

Die missionaries and puritanical scum!

[chanchao]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, down boy, down..!!!

Todays Assignment: Find any post here on the Chiang Mai regional forum by someone who outright condemns the nightlife and/or who has anything good to say about Christian hypocrites, or even of Christianity in general. (Not counting Ms. "I've seen the light" exchange volunteer, she's not a resident and didn't mention any kind of nightlife either, for or against.)

Also re-read some of the comments 'against' Loi Kroh that were made, also by me. Most are very practical in nature, not against that kind of nightlife per say.

These practical issues revolved around our respective significant others, and were:

1 She may be suspicious of a group of guys (mostly) meeting up in that

kind of area, and

2 Walking along Loi Kroh with your wife/girlfriend and be greeted

cheerfully by many of the staff who know you by name and

everything may be, erm, embarassing.

(Yes, the last one is a bit hypocritical :-) )

Cheers,

Chanchao

[maerim]

Anyway, right before p1p got interested, the Kiwi raised the prices of the food considerably, and then p1p bought in, and kept simular prices.

Nothing to do with saving the city; an established restaraunt in a pretty good location.

The "save the area" hype was started by the Kiwi, but he was gay, and used to hit the boy bars elsewhere and go around fondling the staff for free!

This site really is just chock full of hypocrites!

Got to hand it to the Judge,don't say much but when he does it interesting.

Whats the chance of booking him (or her) once or twice a month say at 8-30 am on a Thursday?

Start the day with a smile,get it over with.

[Norman d'Plume]

Reading this post today I only wish I could have been at last night's meeting.

I don't quite understand what Judge & Mae Rim have against the Mango Tree and why they need to post in what seems to be such a vindictive manner. I can only assume they got food poisoning there!

Just wish to point out one or two factual errors in Judge's post. The Mango Tree's earlier incarnation, the Easy Diner, closed because the next-door-neighbours went to the landlord & offered considerably more in rent to be able to take over the premises. There were, in fact, still three years remaining on the lease but fighting the case was simply not worth the time or hassle.

When the Mango tree was taken over, the menu was expanded considerably and prices lowered by an average of 20-25%. As far as I can see, they have since been lowered even more.

Regarding "Saving the Area" and speaking purely for myself, but I'm sure the Mango Tree feel the same:

I have nothing against the bars or the girls who make their living out of them. I simply do not care to patronise them myself. However each business that changes from a prostitution front to a restaurant or bar serving nothing more than food and/or drinks is inevitably "cleaning up" the area. In the same manner that any "legitimate" business that fails and is replaced by another girlie bar can be regarding as helping to "sleaze-up" the locality.

Mango Tree, and the Mayflower Restaurant next door to them, are trying to be legitimate businesses in a slightly less-than-salubrious area. It seems a great pity that the majority of the potential clientelle for both restaurants prefer to be judgemental more about the area than thebusinesses themselves. In many cities around the world, the best restaurants are traditionally found in the red light areas and "quality" clientelle flock to them enjoying the somewhat rakish, naughty atmosphere outside on the street. I find the "Can't go there because of their neighbours" attitude to be both laughable and sad in equal measure.

[Georgie-Porgie]

In many cities around the world, the best restaurants are traditionally found in the red light areas and "quality" clientelle flock to them enjoying the somewhat rakish, naughty atmosphere outside on the street. I find the "Can't go there because of their neighbours" attitude to be both laughable and sad in equal measure.

chanchoa, this isn't really meant to refute your unwaranted attack on me ( just kidding ).

I've actually been in a hurry to get home and edit my last post, because I certainly didn't mean to attack Mr p1p, he's a nice guy, and didn't start the stuff about "saving the neighborhood".

Other people say it and he just sort of goes along with it, but I have seen his big ole' eyes twirling like saucers, when some hot young thing is prancing around in front of his door. He doesn't pretend to be other than human.

Also, I have nothing against Christians who can mind their own business. I just kind of threw that in for the fun of it; I've noticed that Christian bashing is a good way to get people on your side on this site.

Puritans are who I want to rave about today; Bullsh1t artists who came over here for the same reason that the rest of us did, the girls, then they got married, and now they act like when you grow up your d1ck falls off.

I still have mine, and it likes to go to Loi Kroa Road sometimes. Please leave Loi Kroa alone.

[Doisaketmoobaan]

Thanks to P1P for for having such a great enviroment to have fun. Me and the mrs. enjoyed meeting everyone and would defintly love to do it again the only negative was that we didnt have enough time to get to talk with everyone longer!!

[BillW]

I can only echo what others have said. I had a great time – good people and good food. We will certainly be returning to the Mango Tree.

I don’t have a problem with the neighborhood or with the surrounding businesses. They didn’t appear to get in the way of everyone’s good time last night.

[cm boy]

Looks like I missed another good night! Drat!! Now that P1P has done quite well (thank you) out of the meetings I trust this 'bon homme' will be shared around the other, suitable, expat venues. I know alternative places have been discussed at some length and I missed the final summation of it all, nevertheless lets not get bogged down in one place when I'm sure there are similar locations which would equally stimulate the meetings and provide food and service of the same quality and dare I say it, maybe even better that The Mango Tree (God forgive me!)

What these place may be lacking is the support and promotion (and sheer adoration) that I feel P1P was afforded (instigated?) but that's not to say they are not worthy of our esteemed patronage. I know Dave and Ann at the Bears Den and dear old Bob at Lanna Paradise, to name but two, would be delighted with the kudos bestowed by our benefaction not to mention the extra Baht especially during the forthcoming downturn in business.

So, for those who can tear themselves away from The Mango Tree, (and the Hamburgers) at most for a few hours, let us once again open the topic of the meeting point for our next get-together before the bars close at 8 and the alcohol ban becomes total (and we become teetotal...shudder).

cm boy

[Snark]

deleted

[Georgie-Porgie]

I have looked through your old posts, and I don't think that the labeling you as puritanical would be remiss.

Here's just a few examples of the World according to Snark, and by the way, the theory about Thai woment preferring farangs is completely silly, although it is what they tell us.

Snark Posted:

I'm talking about stray pussy looking for sleeze farangs to dive in to. A several million dollar a night gig. Along with that crap we got drugs and disease. Degradation, appeal to the most base and sordid side of human nature.

Snark Posted on: Tue 2004-05-11, 08:24:14

Loi Kroh is strictly use are your own risk. Sorry.

Now, if we can just get the gals to wear warning labels...

Snark Posted : Welcome to the LOS. Land of slime, that is. Where it is culturally accepted men have second wives or visit the 'girls'. Where butterfly has an entirely different meaning centuries old.

In turn, the average Thai woman thinks Thai men are, as a general rule, scumballs. Thus the reason they jump at the chance for a REAL relationship with a farang.

[chanchao]

Ok, fair enough, I'd say Georgie passed the assignment with flying colors in finding some posts indeed negative of the nightlife.. But then again, Snark didn't say he had a problem with MT for this reason, in fact he was there at the meeting..

Looking forward to meet you at some future meeting as well Georgie..!

Cheers,

Chanchao

[Snark]

deleted

[Georgie-Porgie]

When it comes to the Mango Tree, remember that we are in agreement. I am trying to be as clear as possible that I like the owner and that I like the place. I was moaning about the people trying to close down my playground out in front of it.

As far as giving you insights into looking at the bright side of Thailand, I don't know how to do that. It just comes naturally to me. What scares me is having to live somewhere else.

I've heard all the same stories from the girls that you have, and maybe more. There are a lot of sad stories for sure, but also, many, many happy ones.

Of course, I purposely choose girls who enjoy what they are doing.

For me, in the farang-oriented sex businesses, the good outweighs the bad.

However, have you been to the cheap brothels for Thai men?

The girls are truly slaves in many of them, and if a customer won't use a condom, they can't stop him.

Many are underage.

They are sometimes beaten.

They make very little money.

Those places make me sick.

I wish that the NGOs would put them out of business, but they don't seem much concerned with them, even though they are a much, much larger part of the sex industry then anything to do with farangs.

Hypocritical, wouldn't you say?

[chanchao]

> My postings are from experience alone. I speak on behalf of the girls

> for they are my friends and have taken me into their confidence.

Alrightie, there we are. Up to here I wasn't sure if you thought the girls were bad or that 'thai society' / 'life' is bad. Happy to see it's the latter.

Some people get into a relationship with a bargirl and then get burnt for it and become very bitter towards bars & bargirls or even 'women' or 'Thailand' in general. Again good to see that this isn't you either.

> I speak on behalf of the women, having been subjected to countless hours of sobs

> and moans by hundreds of them regarding how Thai men have certain tendencies.

Or Farang men, or rather men in general. This is my own opinion anyway. Not for a nanosecond am I under the impression that the average Western resident of Thailand is 'better' than the average Thai guy in any way. Well, disposable income perhaps and having no particular preference for light skin colours.

Also keep in mind you're hearing only half the story from Thai girls. "I had a baby and then he left me." Well golly.. maybe you could have thought of that before getting your knickers off in that rice-paddy shelter-sala with the cute guy from the motorcycle shop.

> PS We must get together and shred christians some time.

:-))))))))))))))))) LOL...

Cheers,

Chanchao

[chanchao]

Actually as it happens I went to some of the bars in Loi Kroh with the specific target of shooting some atmosphere shots as an angle for a post on Mango Tree on the food-website. (I liked it, and will add it soon). Anyway the 'angle' would be like we've been discussing: 'raising' the level of that stretch of Loi Kroh but of course also doing some nice pictures of the bars around, some pics that also would look rather positive, mind you. (Because the second you add a picture of a bar then it WILL look bad in the eyes of a neutral reader unless the fun is basically dripping from the pictures. The second you show people outside Thailand a picture of anything nightlife related then they associate it with prior 'knowledge' of under-age sex slaves chained to the bed during the day..)

(Does everyone follow that..? Rather than posting pictures of just food and the merits of it I like to touch on other Thai/Chiang Mai related stuff. And girlie bars are too juicy a topic to ignore..

Cheers,

Chanchao

[chanchao]

> My postings are from experience alone. I speak on behalf of the

> girls for they are my friends and have taken me into their confidence.

> I speak on behalf of the women, having been subjected to countless

> hours of sobs and moans by hundreds of them

That kind of sort of happened to me all the time too when I just came to Chiang Mai and had really 'deep' discussions with bar girls. I still see some people do that, with the best of intentions. You know, asking her "why did you start working in a bar", "does your family/children know what kind of work you do", "do you like the customers you meet." and so on.

I'm not sure this line of discussion is doing anyone a favour. A bargirl once even asked me "why do people always ask me these things?" adding that she never quite knew what to say.

Anyway, I suggested saying something like:

Him: Why do you work in a bar?

Her: Well what job do you do?

Him: Well, um, I'm a web designer.

Her: Well I work in bars for pretty much the same reason as you design webs.

Or: "Well that's because money doesn't grow on trees. I tried planting a 100 baht note once, but no luck."

Or: "There's real downturn in rocket science with the end of the cold war and all, so here I am."

Or: (whisper) "I'm a vampire and regularly need newbie tourist blood"

Anyway, didn't work of course, but the suggestions still caused a laugh. Which is probably best with girls you meet in bars: be pleasant and have a laugh.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[cutethaigirl]

Excuse me but what relevance has 90% of the above to CM forum meetings???

It was a very pleasant evening and nice to meet so many new friends with a common interest in one go.

If you are in CM and read this forum come along to the next posted event.

I think in fairness it does not have to be held in the same venue each time?

(this is not a comment about the venue, just saying it could be anywhere as and when).

Probably not as often as two times a week 'officially'. Anyone turning up that wants to make arrangements with any others for a daily meeting, fine. Similarly to a monthly , fine. But personally think that an impromptu 'big' meeting will attract a better feeling and turnout? Othyerwise can cecome like 'Rotary Club', just as an example?

As said thoroughly enjoyed it and vote for the next one to be on a Friday night in the Star Six Club:-))

CT

[Judge]

cutethaigirl has a point, and I like the food at Mango Tree too.

[Monte Christo]

I did hear on the grapevine that Basher and The Gentleman are coming to the next meeting as they are on holiday in Chiangmai......Any thruth in it?

[cutethaigirl]

Purely observation, no views:-)

The following members and/or IP adresses are banned for a while from posting on this forum:

basher

the gentleman

The Gentleman Scamp

see under Forum Support.

all good stuff

[p1p]

Just back on line after a few problems.

Thank you to all who came to the meeting. I was stunned at the turn out.

Thank you too to all of you who have voiced support for the Mango Tree. We truly do value your support, your custom and your friendship. If you ever have any problems relating to M-T, or feel we could improve in any way, please let us know. We rely on such feedback to keep up our quality.

Regarding our position and the bars etc. I have never been on any form of crusade to close down the bars. I took over Mango Tree in the full knowledge and appreciation of it's surroundings. Nor do I have any particular problem with the girls or the patrons of the bars. We really do inhabit different worlds. I simply wish that more people would look beyond the doorway and see that Mango Tree is a truly safe and decent place to bring your children, Grandmother, your sister or your wife. Indeed, we are frequently used as a wife's meeting place so they can watch over hubby on his bar crawl outside. (Whoops, perhaps I shouldn't have said that.)

We are only too happy to offer our premises for future meetings and even to be a sort of informal club house. (Any ThaiVisa member will always be entitled to a discount.) However we are also only too happy to quietly step aside if the members prefer some other location.

Thank you all, once again and I greatly look forward to meeting you all again soon, singly or as a party.

P

[p1p]

PS.

CTG: Please tell us about the Star Sick Club. Do you work there??

[cutethaigirl]

P1P you promised never to say you met me there:-(( now all will know!

Your venue is way better !

CT

[Georgie-Porgie]

Snark, I really think that you have it backwards concerning the local sex-trade. The farang-oriented business is a tiny percentage of the whole, and the huge trade for local men is what propels the industry.

If you haven't read it already, read "Sex Slaves" by Louise Brown. She was one of the first experts to lay the blame on local trade, rather than "sex-tourists".

She pretty much lets foreign men off the hook, because the freedom, earnings and conditions of the girls are not even in the same stratosphere.

The book is considered to be among the best concerning the sex industry in Asia.

Another interesting one is "Patpong Sisters" by Cleo Odzer.

[Johpa]

If you haven't read it already, read "Sex Slaves" by Louise Brown. She was one of the first experts to lay the blame on local trade, rather than "sex-tourists".

<P>

The book is considered to be among the best concerning the sex industry in Asia.

Another interesting one is "Patpong Sisters" by Cleo Odzer.

There was a small book published by the ILO around 1979 that showed that only 10% of the sex industry was aimed at the foreign tourist while 90% was aimed at the local and "regional" trade. Nothing has changed since that report. That same report noted that out of all Thai women between the ages of 15 and 55 about 30% had been engaged in the sex trade at one time or another.

<P>

As for the Odzer book, great and humerous gonzo journalism, although nothing really insightful, by one who was indeed a sister of the Patpong bar girls in both spirit and life choices. A fun read, but her family gets no sympathy for me for her early death.

[maerim]

What is the commest cause, circumstance, which leads the /average/ Thia woman to become a prostitute?

Money.

Followed very closely by bad spelling.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

What is the commest cause, circumstance, which leads the /average/ Thia woman to become a prostitute?

Money.

Followed very closely by bad spelling.

Heheheheh I like that Maerim That classic education is showing through.