In detention right now about to be deported

[JackThompson]

2 minutes ago, YetAnother said:

germane to the topic due to the monetary requirement; so is it the case : that if i want to shop in Tachilek (myanmar) and i do the re-entry permit foolishness. upon re-entry in Mae Sai. i have to show 20000 in hand ?

(am on retirement extension)

28 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

The 20k in cash requirement,

does it also apply to holders of extension of stay and a re-entry permit?

 

22 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Technically no since is not a new entry with a visa. I don't recall anybody having a problem when entering with a re-entry permit.

They tried pulling this stunt with one extension+multi-entry permit case, who was coming back from a day-trip to Malaysisa (land border) - but he threatened to call Bangkok, and they let him in without it.
I do not recall any other cases where this was requested.

[Old Croc]

There could be more to this story than has been revealed.

The OP is 24, has had 4 tourist visas and one visa on arrival and was a couple of days overstayed on last departure. He doesn't say how long he has been living in Thailand, but wants to live and stay here. He has a condo, belongings and his training (?).  There is no indication on how he supports himself. Perhaps he's yet another wealthy young person living on accumulated savings or with rich parents who are happy to pay for him to disappear in Asia? 

He has gone the Ed visa route this time with a language school. Perhaps he didn't satisfy the officer that he is a genuine student.

Perhaps the "power tripping" Immigration officer has huge concerns about how he supports himself, and considers he is likely to be working illegally. Incidentally, Immigration officers anywhere are unlikely to allow unprocessed passengers out to the public area to access ATMs.  The officer usually has better things to do and the likelihood of someone bolting is high.

Thailand has traditionally been wide open for visitors and has allowed long term stay using border runs.

I don't know if they are now tightening up on these visitors and this lad was unlucky to be caught up in a new stricter regime. At the least, the OP, after so many entries should have worked out that he should always meet the required funding parameters. Although, that didn't seem to help the other character who was assessed as working illegally.

 

As someone who has to produce 800,000B to get a 1 year stay here, it is difficult for me to sympathise too much, and I have my thoughts on the likelihood he is working illegally here.

[jspill]

32 minutes ago, tonray said:

We shouldn't have a cow here folks that you show about $600 bucks US for a 30 day (or more) stay. How could this be so onerous ?..I think people need to sit back and realize that this is not a big deal. If you come to a foreign country and do not have $600 bucks to support yourself then you should not be allowed in. Travelers need to start being adults and follow the rules.

Lol everyone has the money but the problem is it isn't advertised as a requirement anywhere, no one but thaivisa forum regs know about this. 

 

Consulates don't ask for it either, even though it's technically a requirement to get a visa, ideally they'd ask for it and then say ok keep the cash on you for your flight back as well.

[YetAnother]

19 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

In the other case, he had 25K Baht and was denied on "suspicion of working" entering with a Tourist Visa. 

I don't think that would have happened in this case, with the ED visa, if he had the cash - but that is speculation on my part.  ED visas are known to send certain IOs into a "negative-space" - to put it nicely.

 

Best not to fly in at all, if you have spent considerable time here and are attempting to enter Exempt, or using a Tourist or ED Visa to enter.

 

I recall a couple cases where the person had the money, was never asked for it, but denied for not having it.  Upon seeing why they were denying him, they showed it, and were told "it's too late now, sorry."

 

Not strange at all, it is standard practice.  It isn't really "about the money" - or about Farangs from wealthy nations coming in to "work illegally" - it is about Keeping Out longer-staying Farangs. 

 

See the threads on the raised-bars for applying for longer-stay visas - also justified under the "abuse" / "crackdown" language.  There is a certain clique who Does Not Want Us Here long-term. 

 

That said, most of the IOs I have met at land-borders are nice folks who want to help people - evidently not all are part of this problem-clique.

 

They don't want to "solve" the problem.  They want the longer-staying Farang GONE.

your viewpoint is appreciated, hope it isnt that bad; there has been chatter elsewhere that the real rulers want to thin out the expats here; i just hope it doesnt spill over into the extension process

[jspill]

22 minutes ago, tonray said:

And yet they have time to keep their faces buried in facebook and instagram while they walk into traffic. Time to be be adults if they want some respect. 

Ironically you sound like a child here. And are being totally disinhonest, there is in fact little to no information online anywhere about needing 20k baht cash at the airport, outside of Thaivisa.com. Only some info about it being a technical requirement to get a tourist visa at a consulate.

[YetAnother]

got to be one big black market associated with this detention process

[JackThompson]

2 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

There could be more to this story than has been revealed.

The OP is 24, has had 4 tourist visas and one visa on arrival and was a couple of days overstayed on last departure. He doesn't say how long he has been living in Thailand, but wants to live and stay here. He has a condo, belongings and his training (?).  There is no indication on how he supports himself. Perhaps he's yet another wealthy young person living on accumulated savings or with rich parents who are happy to pay for him to disappear in Asia? 

He has gone the Ed visa route this time with a language school. Perhaps he didn't satisfy the officer that he is a genuine student.

Perhaps the "power tripping" Immigration officer has huge concerns about how he supports himself, and considers he is likely to be working illegally. Incidentally, Immigration officers anywhere are unlikely to allow unprocessed passengers out to the public area to access ATMs.  The officer usually has better things to do and the likelihood of someone bolting is high.

Thailand has traditionally been wide open for visitors and has allowed long term stay using border runs.

I don't know if they are now tightening up on these visitors and this lad was unlucky to be caught up in a new stricter regime. At the least, the OP, after so many entries should have worked out that he should always meet the required funding parameters. Although, that didn't seem to help the other character who was assessed as working illegally.

 

As someone who has to produce 800,000B to get a 1 year stay here, it is difficult for me to sympathise too much, and I have my thoughts on the likelihood he is working illegally here.

There is a lot of "perhaps" there - but no evidence of wrongdoing.  He was not denied-entry for a criminal record, proof of working, etc.  I think "training" is a reference to the education / tuition which he has already paid for. 

 

If the IO was genuinely serious about a monetary issue, he would have let this fellow withdraw the money from an ATM.  In other cases, those wishing to avoid a detention-cell can pay an IO to sit with them in departures - far less use of a security-officer's time for a 5-minute walk.  As this is not on-offer, a genuine concern about how the OP supports himself is clearly not the "real" issue.

 

With regard to sympathy - it's not about that.  You could, of course, advocate for the abolition of ED visas, entirely, if you believe that it is unfair that others stay here without producing 800K or showing 65K/mo income.  "Married to Thai" foreigners only have to show half as much.  It might seem 'unfair' - but we don't get to make the rules. 

[tonray]

1 minute ago, jspill said:

Ironically you sound like a child here. And are being totally disinhonest, there is in fact little to no information online anywhere about needing 20k baht cash at the airport, outside of Thaivisa.com. Only some info about it being a technical requirement to get a tourist visa at a consulate.

Immigration Regs Section 12

 

Section 12

 

Aliens which fall into any of the following categories are excluded from entering into the Kingdom:

1. Having no genuine and valid passport or document used in lieu of passport; or having a genuine and valid passport or document used in lieu of a passport without Visaing by the Royal Thai Embassies or Consulates in Foreign countries; or from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, excepting if a visa is not required for certain types of aliens in special instances. Visaing and visa exemption will be under the learn and conditions as provided in the Ministerial Regulations.
2. Having no appropriate means of living following entrance into the Kingdom.
3. Having entered into the Kingdom to take occupation as a laborer or to take employment by using physical without skills training or to work in violation of the Ministerial Regulations.
4. Being mentally unstable or having any of the disease as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.
5. Having not yet been vaccinated against small pox or inoculated or undergone any other medical treatment for protection against disease and having refused to have such vaccinations administered by the Immigration Doctor.
6. Having been imprisoned by the judgement of the Thai Court; or by a lawful injunction; or by the judgement of the Court of foreign country, except when the penalty is foe petty offense or negligence or is provided for as an exception in the Ministerial Regulations.
7. Having behavior which would indicated possible danger to the public or likelihood of being a nuisance or constituting any violence to the peace or safety of the public or to the security of the public or to the security of the nation, or being under warrant of arrest by competent officials of foreign governments.
8. Reason to believe that entrance into the Kingdom was for the purpose of being involved in prostitution, the trading of woman of children, drug smuggling, or other types of smuggling which are contrary to the public morality.
9. Having no money or bond as prescribed by the Minister under him.
10. Being a person prohibited by the Minister under Section 16.
11. Being deported by either the Government of Thailand that of or other foreign countries; or the right of stay in the Kingdom or in foreign countries having been revoked; or having been sent out of the Kingdom by competent officials at the expense of the Government of Thailand unless the Minister shall consider exemption on an individual special case basis.

[Chou Anou]

9 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

There could be more to this story than has been revealed.

 

Precisely.  One must always take this into account, especially when reading a post made by someone with such a low post count.  No offense, OP, just something for everyone to keep in mind.

[jspill]

1 minute ago, tonray said:

Immigration Regs Section 12

 

Section 12

 

Aliens which fall into any of the following categories are excluded from entering into the Kingdom:

1. Having no genuine and valid passport or document used in lieu of passport; or having a genuine and valid passport or document used in lieu of a passport without Visaing by the Royal Thai Embassies or Consulates in Foreign countries; or from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, excepting if a visa is not required for certain types of aliens in special instances. Visaing and visa exemption will be under the learn and conditions as provided in the Ministerial Regulations.
2. Having no appropriate means of living following entrance into the Kingdom.
3. Having entered into the Kingdom to take occupation as a laborer or to take employment by using physical without skills training or to work in violation of the Ministerial Regulations.
4. Being mentally unstable or having any of the disease as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.
5. Having not yet been vaccinated against small pox or inoculated or undergone any other medical treatment for protection against disease and having refused to have such vaccinations administered by the Immigration Doctor.
6. Having been imprisoned by the judgement of the Thai Court; or by a lawful injunction; or by the judgement of the Court of foreign country, except when the penalty is foe petty offense or negligence or is provided for as an exception in the Ministerial Regulations.
7. Having behavior which would indicated possible danger to the public or likelihood of being a nuisance or constituting any violence to the peace or safety of the public or to the security of the public or to the security of the nation, or being under warrant of arrest by competent officials of foreign governments.
8. Reason to believe that entrance into the Kingdom was for the purpose of being involved in prostitution, the trading of woman of children, drug smuggling, or other types of smuggling which are contrary to the public morality.
9. Having no money or bond as prescribed by the Minister under him.
10. Being a person prohibited by the Minister under Section 16.
11. Being deported by either the Government of Thailand that of or other foreign countries; or the right of stay in the Kingdom or in foreign countries having been revoked; or having been sent out of the Kingdom by competent officials at the expense of the Government of Thailand unless the Minister shall consider exemption on an individual special case basis.

Which says nothing about 20k baht in cash... just 'no money', everyone has some money on them, OP had 8000 baht, ATM cards to withdraw more, etc.

Edited July 14, 2017 by jspill

[tonray]

2 minutes ago, jspill said:

Which says nothing about 20k baht in cash... just 'no money', everyone has some money on them, OP had 8000 baht, ATM cards to withdraw more, etc.

Perhaps instead of arguing against reality, you can start a blog to assist future travelers. Have a good day.

[Essecola]

5 minutes ago, jspill said:

Ironically you sound like a child here. And are being totally disinhonest, there is in fact little to no information online anywhere about needing 20k baht cash at the airport, outside of Thaivisa.com. Only some info about it being a technical requirement to get a tourist visa at a consulate.

Do these people with 2 or 3 previous posts who suddenly get detained at the airport and post the experience here all of a sudden just "discover" the thaivisa forum after they arrive in the detention room. Could that be why they had no idea of the cash in hand requirement?

[ThailandYoda]

Yes Thai Immigration does have signs with the 20K requirement.

[Kerryd]

I can't find any ATM/Bank/Exchange locations in the Arrival area, prior to Immigration. 

 

All the ones noted on the airport maps are in areas after you go through Immigration. There are some in the Baggage Carousel area and then near the Exit doors in the "Meeting" area.

 

The OP noted that the IO "didn't trust him". Well, maybe the IO thought the OP would just head "zig" towards the nearest ATM then "zag" out the door instead of getting the cash and coming back to the counter. 

 

Someone will say "well the IO could have kept his passport until he came back", but that's no guarantee and the IOs have probably been told to not do things like that. Don't want a bunch of foreigners wandering around the terminal without passports and doing the "I can't remember which guy I was talking to" thing after all.

I've gone through Suvarnabhumi Immigration probably 24+ times (Arriving) since it opened in 2006, mixed between the "cattle class" and Business Class Immigration areas, travelling on 30 Day stamps and Non-O(A) Visas/Extensions and never once been asked to prove funds. I used to specifically wait until I arrived in Thailand to take money out of an ATM (or exchange it) to avoid fees and exchange rate issues.
 

Which leads me to wonder why the IO would single the OP out and was apparently so unwilling to admit him.

 

 

Edited July 14, 2017 by Kerryd
added a "y" because "y" not !

[jspill]

15 minutes ago, tonray said:

Perhaps instead of arguing against reality, you can start a blog to assist future travelers. Have a good day.

Reality is anyone reading that one line in the huge immigration act will conclude that it means no completely bankrupt people with no access to funds at all to support their stay.

 

There should be more mention of the exact 20k baht requirement and the fact you won't be allowed to use an ATM. Sure one poster above has gone on Google images and found some outdated sign from over a decade ago... but the best location to tell people would be when they apply for visas at consulates, on the paperwork.

 

Besides there are many reports of people still being denied with 20k + on their person. 

 

I do have a blog.

Edited July 14, 2017 by jspill

[tomacht8]

4 minutes ago, ThailandYoda said:

Yes Thai Immigration does have signs with the 20K requirement.

LOL
A person who wears shorts, slippers and has untidy long hairs = no entry.
This would exclude the half of all Pattaya visitors.
Think this is probably not an official legal text.

[JackThompson]

10 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

The OP noted that the IO "didn't trust him". Well, maybe the IO thought the OP would just head "zig" towards the nearest ATM then "zag" out the door instead of getting the cash and coming back to the counter. 

 

Someone will say "well the IO could have kept his passport until he came back", but that's no guarantee and the IOs have probably been told to not do things like that. Don't want a bunch of foreigners wandering around the terminal without passports and doing the "I can't remember which guy I was talking to" thing after all.

Think that through, for a minute.  A German citizen with Ed-paperwork and visa is going to "make a break for it,"  try to escape the Airport without getting arrested, and stay in Thailand illegally, sans-passport (hard to check into a hotel, even), risking prison-time and deportation ??  I think not.  He would be able to remember who had his passport, even if the absent-minded type.

 

As well, the same security-person who took him to detention could have taken him to an ATM, instead.

 

10 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

Which leads me to wonder why the IO would single the OP out and was apparently so unwilling to admit him

He was singled-out because he had spent considerable time here and produced a way to stay another year.  There is a clique within Immigration which doesn't want longer-staying Farangs here at all, and they are going after the easiest-targets, first.  Not having the cash makes you an easy-target.

Then there are the friendly IOs in Issan - maybe who have family married to Farangs, and see how their female family-member's children have financial-support from a man for the first time ever, and are happy to see us here.  Or family with a business that receives income from long-stay Farangs. Their attitude is much closer to the Philippine perspective, realizing the good we do.

Edited July 14, 2017 by JackThompson

[PoorSucker]

1 minute ago, tomacht8 said:

LOL
A person who wears shorts, slippers and has untidy long hairs = no entry.
This would exclude the half of all Pattaya visitors.
Think this is probably not an official legal text.

Immigration Act, B.E. 2522

Section 16

 

In the instance where for reason of national welfare or safeguarding the public peace, culture, morality, or welfare, or when the Minister considers it improper to allow any alien or any group of alien to enter into the Kingdom, the Minister shall have power to exclude said alien or group aliens from entering into the Kingdom.

[anto]

>>a person with Hippy characteristics (described in the above notice ) after he enter the kingdom ,He will be immediately deport << 

 

What about all such people every day in KSR and Pai up North .

[CutiePi]

Maybe when you get things sorted and attempt your next airport entry, fly business class. I've entered dozens of times on all manner of visasand visa exemptions with never any issue but I always fly business or first class. My guess is the IOs working the Premium Lane figure people flying Business have allot of money and are good for Thailand. At least it's worth a try.

[MrPatrickThai]

50 minutes ago, YetAnother said:

the black cloud hanging over all our heads

nonsense as was the reply you quoted about there being an anti-farang atmosphere.

 

They don't want tourists with no money. Have you any idea the problems they have with criminal tourists?

 

Also, there are many that look like beggars. I saw one yesterday on the BTS with no shoes and long matted hair. I know he may have lots of money and probably just a non-habit forming marijuana user. But how is the immigration officare going to decide?

 

Show proof of funds is normal for any country. My wife has just gone to Germany to visit her cousin. She had hoops to jump through. Thailand is developing, if you love her, you should be happy with new restrictions. 

 

 

[Adeeos]

1 hour ago, tonray said:

We shouldn't have a cow here folks that you show about $600 bucks US for a 30 day (or more) stay. How could this be so onerous ?..I think people need to sit back and realize that this is not a big deal. If you come to a foreign country and do not have $600 bucks to support yourself then you should not be allowed in. Travelers need to start being adults and follow the rules.

So.. a traveler could have umpteen amount of $$$ in an account, that's available at one of the hundreds of thousands of ATM all over,, But maybe not like to carry more than say $300 in their pocket,, and be turned away? I'm sure the cabbies in que at the airports, also any and all other sketchy scammers, BIB, etc, etc,,  will be thrilled to know for a fact,, that every single person landing at Swampy on an international flight is carrying a bare minimum of $600 in cash on their person... 

Edited July 14, 2017 by Adeeos

[MekkOne]

No flights from Laos to BKK airport at all...


This is an acceptable signature (hopefully)

 

[Old Croc]

12 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

There is a lot of "perhaps" there - but no evidence of wrongdoing.  He was not denied-entry for a criminal record, proof of working, etc.  I think "training" is a reference to the education / tuition which he has already paid for. 

 

If the IO was genuinely serious about a monetary issue, he would have let this fellow withdraw the money from an ATM.  In other cases, those wishing to avoid a detention-cell can pay an IO to sit with them in departures - far less use of a security-officer's time for a 5-minute walk.  As this is not on-offer, a genuine concern about how the OP supports himself is clearly not the "real" issue.

 

With regard to sympathy - it's not about that.  You could, of course, advocate for the abolition of ED visas, entirely, if you believe that it is unfair that others stay here without producing 800K or showing 65K/mo income.  "Married to Thai" foreigners only have to show half as much.  It might seem 'unfair' - but we don't get to make the rules. 

I used the word "perhaps" because there is no evidence available to readers here as to what actually happened, other than the account given by the OP. In my experience people who find themselves with such problems will only ever give their side of the encounter. Human nature.

Of course, this hasn't stopped you talking in absolutes! You have completely taken the OP statements here as facts, and added your version of what the IO should have done!

Unless you were there you have no knowledge of the "real" issues.

 

Whether I am sympathetic or not is my prerogative, I don't need the likes of you telling me how I should think or what I should start advocating!

[jspill]

5 minutes ago, Cletus said:

Hmm, this is the second case in few days, and the OPs appear to have discovered ThaiVisa Forum after entering the detention cell.

I know this guy actually, it's not a troll. Don't know the other guy

 

Tiny % of expats / tourists actively post on this forum

Edited July 14, 2017 by jspill

[jspill]

1 minute ago, MekkOne said:

No flights from Laos to BKK airport at all...

 

Laos Airlines

[Lovethailandelite]

How about this one somebody just sent to me from someone who actually knows this guy? May not be a good idea to keep calling people liars.
I don't know the guy but was reported in another forum apparently yesterday evening.

Sitting in detention room at DMK. I was denied entry today. My first in/out ever as I am going to my home country next month so I didn't bother getting a visa for just over a month. 
They said I was in/out many times, though in total i have taken 2 actual holidays out of the country and only today was an actual "in/out". 
They also mentioned something about an overstay I had 6 months ago which was a total accident and ignorance on my part. As I had an METV and just followed the date on the visa and overlooked the actual stamp. After paying the overstay my visa was still valid on my next entry (contradicting much?). 
Today I showed 20k baht in cash, printed bank statements showing over 500k, as well as a real itinerary for a flight out. 
No go.
Update : three other foreigners here, brand new tourist visas from Penang. All in the same boat.

Edited July 14, 2017 by ubonjoe
removed quote of a removed post

[Kerryd]

5 minutes ago, MekkOne said:

No flights from Laos to BKK airport at all...

 

3 minutes ago, jspill said:

Laos Airlines

 

Vientiane, Laos (VTE) to Bangkok (all airports)

7:00 am	→	8:35 am	Lao Airlines 441	S	M	T	W	T	F	S	VTE-BKK
11:40 am	→	12:55 pm	Bangkok Airways 944	S	M	T	W	T	F	S	VTE-BKK
1:20 pm	→	2:25 pm	Thai Smile 571	S	M	T	W	T	F	S	VTE-BKK
6:05 pm	→	7:40 pm	Lao Airlines 445	S	M	T	W	T	F	S	VTE-BKK
9:30 pm	→	10:35 pm	Thai 575	S	M	T	W	T	F	S	VTE-BKK

 

Just a few.

 

[overherebc]

12 minutes ago, Cletus said:

Hmm, this is the second case in few days, and the OPs appear to have discovered ThaiVisa Forum after entering the detention cell.

 

OP was posting on TV from end of last year so didn't just discover it.

[seancbk]

2 hours ago, Adeeos said:

???? So you're require to TRAVEL with $20k+ 

 

20,000 Baht, not $20,000  

Although it can be in any currency so you could carry US$ 600 or you could carry travelers cheques to that value.

It's hardly a lot of cash.