Attitude of Shop Owners in Pattaya

[robblok]

6 minutes ago, giddyup said:

What do you base your age related negative comments on? Are you an expert on how people behave after a certain age? I don't think the OP is scared, he would just rather not shop where people are aggressive, nothing wrong with that. If he lives in a tourist area, as I do, he's not going to move away just because of aggressive shopkeepers, he'll probably just restrict his shopping to fixed price stores. Shopkeepers who make their living from the tourist trade need to realise what side their bread is buttered and treat customers a bit more respectfully.

I base it on research, I will link it to you as the topic is not about age and fear but i just mentioned it because its not normal to fear shopping like that.

 

http://nocamels.com/2015/06/age-influences-perception-of-fear/

 

[Daveyh]

42 minutes ago, Emster23 said:

A slight tip or two... first I would never say to the shop person "It is too expensive". I would rather ask "Can we take the price down a bit?". "Too expensive" implies they are ripping you off (which, granted, they may be trying to do) and then it becomes question of face and all that baggage that goes with it.

 Maybe treat sales clerk like Trump: give a few compliments, smile, etc and dispose them towards seeing you as chai dee person.

Point taken ............ tip toeing through the mire we walk through in Thailand! Ha! Think 90% of Thai's are slow on the uptake, mainly due to language barriers, but their sense of humor is not anyway closet ours .......... just watch a Thai tv soap & I rest my case, However, I agree with you .... trying to be "jai dee" is always positive here.

 

[giddyup]

Just now, robblok said:

I base it on research, I will link it to you as the topic is not about age and fear but i just mentioned it because its not normal to fear shopping like that.

 

http://nocamels.com/2015/06/age-influences-perception-of-fear/

 

I don't believe the OP mentioned that he was scared, only that he didn't like the attitude of aggressive shopkeepers, and your posting history makes it very clear that you have negative opinions of the elderly.  You miss no opportunity to have a dig at the them, in this case portraying the OP as some jelly kneed nervous nelly frightened of his own shadow.

[NanLaew]

The OP hasn't enlightened us as to the type or location of these shops that he is having all these difficulties in. To be honest, I thought that bartering went out the window in Thailand a fair while ago as Thailand embraced the western-oriented, fixed-price commercial experience. Fixed pricing is more the norm and unless one is haggling for trash in tourist tat stalls, there's typically little opportunity to negotiate. I have managed to get a few hundred baht knocked of the likes of car batteries, aluminium storage racks and bamboo salas being sold roadside but for the most part, unless one is buying several items in the same shop where both the buyer and the seller have the opportunity to round-down, most businesses within the city are fairly barter-averse these days. I think that the Russian invasion, their rude demeanor and their penchant to even try and argue the tab in a restaurant after the meal has been served, pretty much popped that balloon for all parties.

[LannaGuy]

2 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

I had a business mostly directed at Westerners with fixed prices and numerous signs posted pointing it out. I never had any problem with Thais try to bargain, but the occasional farang would argue and argue about it and it was always items that I could easily sell for their marked price. It was one of the most annoying things about having a business in Thailand. 

Yes I never tried! but your general point is well made a sign saying 'fixed prices' helps everyone to understand and 'should' stop bartering. Normally I only barter in markets, if at all and certainly not for food etc., but not shops.

 

I have noticed, however, that Thais are getting a little bit more aggressive I was buying a car recently and the owner of the garage simply said "I don't sell to farang they want to know too much detail and my cars are the best anyway" so that was that  :)  

[Daveyh]

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

I base it on research, I will link it to you as the topic is not about age and fear but i just mentioned it because its not normal to fear shopping like that.

 

http://nocamels.com/2015/06/age-influences-perception-of-fear/

 

Thanks Robblok for your support ..................... I just avoid it all now when out & about. As you know any type of confrontation here is fraud with danger if you are a farang, especially as there is a "motorbike taxi stand" on nearly every corner waiting to give locals assistance. It's not a case of being "scared" as some members have described it .... seen the aftermath several times when farangs (young & old alike) have had the shit kicked out of them in town by groups of locals wearing "coloured jackets"....... yup, it really is the wild west. Law & order is nonexistent if you stray away from the main venues, hence any roaming for me now is out of the question. Cheers & stay safe. 

[Bill Miller]

1 hour ago, Daveyh said:

Is there a LAZADA in Pattaya or one planned for the future?

Lazada is online, not a storefront.
You order something you want and it is delivered to your home, often at no separate charge, and quickly.
Then again, I last ordered an item that was shipped from China and took a ridiculous amount of time. The vendor was waiting for a full freight container worth of orders, and of course, it all had to be broken down and sorted once it arrived in the country. Just be aware of that if you use Lazada. They will normally indicate if the item ships from outside the Kingdom.
I agree about some of the shop clerks being PITA, but maybe everywhere that cell phones are the rule.

[dotpoom]

What you describe has been my experience for as far back as I remember, long before mobile phones.

Since their appearance, I have turned the annoying " glued to the phone" thing to my advantage. I now make sure that the assistant is on her phone before I approach for a "gawk" at what's on offer. That way I might have some chance of peruseing without being shadowed by her good self.

    I still manage to raise a laugh when in a bartering situation with a private shop owner or the likes...

   I ask the owner "cowlie krap"  ( how much please)....when they give me an answer .....I look directly at them and with the straightest face I can muster up I ask them ......"and how much after discount?"......as if we all know her answer was just the opening shot. 

   She either bursts out laughing or will say ....."...sorry, discount already".....even then she will normally smile or give a little chuckle.

PS....I was in a secondhand shop recently looking for a jackhammer ( to break up stones that were larger than what I had not ordered, if anybody wants them PM me). I started the haggleing the way I have described. Long story short....got him from his starting price of 13,000 Bt. down to 6,500 Bt. Seen the same size and make in Sattahip market last Saturday, he wanted 25,000 Bt.

[Daveyh]

3 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

Yes I never tried! but your general point is well made a sign saying 'fixed prices' helps everyone to understand and 'should' stop bartering. Normally I only barter in markets, if at all and certainly not for food etc., but not shops.

 

I have noticed, however, that Thais are getting a little bit more aggressive I was buying a car recently and the owner of the garage simply said "I don't sell to farang they want to know too much detail and my cars are the best anyway" so that was that  :)  

Well said. There's the attitude I'm talking about ..... right there! Daily occurrence, which is so frustrating!

[robblok]

20 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I don't believe the OP mentioned that he was scared, only that he didn't like the attitude of aggressive shopkeepers, and your posting history makes it very clear that you have negative opinions of the elderly.  You miss no opportunity to have a dig at the them, in this case portraying the OP as some jelly kneed nervous nelly frightened of his own shadow.

What you believe is not what the OP is saying.. look at his other post where he clearly shows he is scared post 36.

 

You are just so afraid to accept that when aging certain things change that you perceive everything as an attack on the elderly. 

 

How people see danger just changes with age.. i think the OP is over the top in that aspect of fear. If you fear getting beat up in a shop then something is wrong.

[Daveyh]

5 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

Lazada is online, not a storefront.
You order something you want and it is delivered to your home, often at no separate charge, and quickly.
Then again, I last ordered an item that was shipped from China and took a ridiculous amount of time. The vendor was waiting for a full freight container worth of orders, and of course, it all had to be broken down and sorted once it arrived in the country. Just be aware of that if you use Lazada. They will normally indicate if the item ships from outside the Kingdom.
I agree about some of the shop clerks being PITA, but maybe everywhere that cell phones are the rule.

Thanks ..... I'll try this. Gotta be better than trolling the streets for it & getting insulted! Sad for the Thai economy though eh?

 

[robblok]

8 minutes ago, Daveyh said:

Thanks Robblok for your support ..................... I just avoid it all now when out & about. As you know any type of confrontation here is fraud with danger if you are a farang, especially as there is a "motorbike taxi stand" on nearly every corner waiting to give locals assistance. It's not a case of being "scared" as some members have described it .... seen the aftermath several times when farangs (young & old alike) have had the shit kicked out of them in town by groups of locals wearing "coloured jackets"....... yup, it really is the wild west. Law & order is nonexistent if you stray away from the main venues, hence any roaming for me now is out of the question. Cheers & stay safe. 

Mate your too scared, sorry to say it but the risk of you getting beat up during normal shopping in a shop is not high at all. Maybe if you try fake watch sellers they are known to be violent but normal shops. I can't recall any news articles about clients getting beat up in shops. 

[robblok]

Just now, Daveyh said:

Thanks ..... I'll try this. Gotta be better than trolling the streets for it & getting insulted! Sad for the Thai economy though eh?

 

Thai shops are the ones that supply lazada so you do pump money in the economy. I like lazada its convenient and often a lot cheaper as in normal shops. 

[Daveyh]

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

What you believe is not what the OP is saying.. look at his other post where he clearly shows he is scared post 36.

 

You are just so afraid to accept that when aging certain things change that you perceive everything as an attack on the elderly. 

 

How people see danger just changes with age.. i think the OP is over the top in that aspect of fear. If you fear getting beat up in a shop then something is wrong.

It's not being scared at all or fearful as you have quoted ............ It's being aware of your surroundings, environment that you are in, avoiding confrontations etc etc. If you are in a fix as a farang with locals around you in their multiples of more than one don't for an instant think help will be on it's way here! There is lots wrong here incase you've not noticed ..... keeping out of trouble & being aware works for me.

[Techno Viking]

35 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

The OP hasn't enlightened us as to the type or location of these shops that he is having all these difficulties in.

Prolly haggling at Soi Buakhao markets for some Chang wife beaters.

[giddyup]

2 minutes ago, Daveyh said:

It's not being scared at all or fearful as you have quoted ............ It's being aware of your surroundings, environment that you are in, avoiding confrontations etc etc. If you are in a fix as a farang with locals around you in their multiples of more than one don't for an instant think help will be on it's way here! There is lots wrong here incase you've not noticed ..... keeping out of trouble & being aware works for me.

Robblok insists you are scared, and after all he knows you better than you know yourself.

[bkk6060]

Well, he did say:  

 

I buy very little these days.

They have aggressive behavior

They are confrontational, aggressive and rude.

I avoid contact with female staff.

I find it intimidating and embarrassing.

 

Sounds like he is scared to me.

 

I don't find this as a major issue here.  The only place I do see it is the first floor at Mike's mall.

They are probably mostly sick of the Cheap Charlie's sometimes arguing over 10 b.

 

[KittenKong]

2 hours ago, catman20 said:

The least you have to do with these people the better. I'm sure they feel the same way about us.

 

That's probably true. But the difference is that I dont have a job or lifestyle that requires me to talk to them so I can easily go for weeks on end without having to do so. Anyone who chooses a job that requires them to talk to people should really give more consideration as to whether they like doing that. Anyone who chooses to sell things to tourists even more so.

[robblok]

24 minutes ago, Daveyh said:

It's not being scared at all or fearful as you have quoted ............ It's being aware of your surroundings, environment that you are in, avoiding confrontations etc etc. If you are in a fix as a farang with locals around you in their multiples of more than one don't for an instant think help will be on it's way here! There is lots wrong here incase you've not noticed ..... keeping out of trouble & being aware works for me.

To me it sounds real scared and fearful if you worry you get beat up in a normal shop. Sorry I find that a bit over the top. 

[robblok]

17 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Well, he did say:  

 

I buy very little these days.

They have aggressive behavior

They are confrontational, aggressive and rude.

I avoid contact with female staff.

I find it intimidating and embarrassing.

 

Sounds like he is scared to me.

 

I don't find this as a major issue here.  The only place I do see it is the first floor at Mike's mall.

They are probably mostly sick of the Cheap Charlie's sometimes arguing over 10 b.

 

I read that too as scared.. not sure how else i should interpret that. 

[giddyup]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

I read that too as scared.. not sure how else i should interpret that. 

No need to interpret, you have already decided he's scared. How many more times do you want to say it? I count 6 times so far.

[JSixpack]

38 minutes ago, Daveyh said:

when farangs (young & old alike) have had the shit kicked out of them in town by groups of locals wearing "coloured jackets"....... yup, it really is the wild west. Law & order is nonexistent if you stray away from the main venues

 

This nonsense undermines your OP and confirms the "problem" stems from your own bias & attitude, not the shop assistants. Nothing said here is going to change that--once a victim, always a victim--but dotpoom, robblock, Ulysses G, kenk24, Ermster23, and NanLaew have given you rational perspectives.

 

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, LannaGuy said:

I have noticed, however, that Thais are getting a little bit more aggressive I was buying a car recently and the owner of the garage simply said "I don't sell to farang they want to know too much detail and my cars are the best anyway" so that was that  :)  

Toyota marketing 101.

[NanLaew]

40 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

The only place I do see it is the first floor at Mike's mall.

..and most of those traders aren't even Thai.

[NanLaew]

19 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

 

This nonsense undermines your OP and confirms the "problem" stems from your own bias & attitude, not the shop assistants. Nothing said here is going to change that--once a victim, always a victim--but dotpoom, robblock, Ulysses G, kenk24, Ermster23, and NanLaew have given you rational perspectives.

 

Now he's going to stop posting due to the rude, aggressive and intimidating nature of those rational perspectives.

 

 

[MyFriend You]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

The OP hasn't enlightened us as to the type or location of these shops that he is having all these difficulties in. To be honest, I thought that bartering went out the window in Thailand a fair while ago as Thailand embraced the western-oriented, fixed-price commercial experience. Fixed pricing is more the norm and unless one is haggling for trash in tourist tat stalls, there's typically little opportunity to negotiate. I have managed to get a few hundred baht knocked of the likes of car batteries, aluminium storage racks and bamboo salas being sold roadside but for the most part, unless one is buying several items in the same shop where both the buyer and the seller have the opportunity to round-down, most businesses within the city are fairly barter-averse these days. I think that the Russian invasion, their rude demeanor and their penchant to even try and argue the tab in a restaurant after the meal has been served, pretty much popped that balloon for all parties.

Not totally off-topic but at a beach in Nha Trang Vietnam they sell BBQ Lobster, Shrimp, Crabs right on the beach, a big hairy Russian  guy wanted a Lobster, clearly marked at 300,000 dong about $14.  She BBQ'd the lobster and took it to his beach bed, he said very loudly I only pay 30,000, not 300,000  and grabbed it from her, threw the money on the beach and started eating, this old lady just looked at him, picked up the 3 bills he threw down on the sand along with a hand full of sand and dropped them in the plate with the lobster, then trotted off with her BBQ buckets..........security police standing right there, pointing at th sign that clearly said "No Outside Food can be brought to this area".  She had the "sand" to do that to such a big guy.  It was funny.

[Henryford]

I hate bartering. I just want to know the cost of something and decide to buy it or not. If their first price is not reasonable i walk away.

[Daveyh]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

Well, he did say:  

 

I buy very little these days.

They have aggressive behavior

They are confrontational, aggressive and rude.

I avoid contact with female staff.

I find it intimidating and embarrassing.

 

Sounds like he is scared to me.

 

I don't find this as a major issue here.  The only place I do see it is the first floor at Mike's mall.

They are probably mostly sick of the Cheap Charlie's sometimes arguing over 10 b.

 

So you agree there are pockets of aggression locally ..... got nothing to do with "cheap charlie's" either. Been here since 1964 on & off, ex military & contract soldier .... 35yrs. Think I know what goes on around here. Don't think there is anything I've seen to be fearful of in my lifetime ...   just know how to keep out of trouble & being respectful ...... trouble is easily found here by pressing the wrong button! No assistance available by the BiB if you are a farang ..... keeping a low profile works for me.

[Daveyh]

30 minutes ago, TunnelRat69 said:

Not totally off-topic but at a beach in Nha Trang Vietnam they sell BBQ Lobster, Shrimp, Crabs right on the beach, a big hairy Russian  guy wanted a Lobster, clearly marked at 300,000 dong about $14.  She BBQ'd the lobster and took it to his beach bed, he said very loudly I only pay 30,000, not 300,000  and grabbed it from her, threw the money on the beach and started eating, this old lady just looked at him, picked up the 3 bills he threw down on the sand along with a hand full of sand and dropped them in the plate with the lobster, then trotted off with her BBQ buckets..........security police standing right there, pointing at th sign that clearly said "No Outside Food can be brought to this area".  She had the "sand" to do that to such a big guy.  It was funny.

Yup, think the Russians screwed it all up for all of us with their attitude & the Thai's just will never ever lose face, hence tempers flare. It's a flash point society we live in, hence I'm cautious, but if I was ever really threatened I'd plead self defence. No question about that ...... 

[Rimmer]

Off topic removed