Trump threatens to end insurance payments if no healthcare bill

[WaywardWind]

5 hours ago, tomwct said:

The only people that want to keep ObamaCare is the 9-10 million that get it free. Most are joblesss or don't want to work and free is free. This is a failed system and getting worse everyday. Even the ones that get it free can't use it because of $12,000 to 18,000 deductibles. Socialism won't work in America. 80% of Americans want to pick and choose their insurance.

 

That is absolute rubbish.  There are millions of people whose very lives depend on continuing access to medical care, which is something that did not exist for them until the ACA made insurance companies cover pre-existing conditions. They could not buy coverage at any price before the ACA, and now they can.

 

$12,000 to $18,000 deductibles? Provide links to verifiable examples, not just people who are blowing smoke like you are.

[Berkshire]

1 hour ago, Bill Miller said:

Total lying BS.
Kindly provide links that prove your assertions, and I do not mean links to Trump tweets.
From Health Pocket report:

"The average deductible for 2017 bronze plans marks the first time this average has crossed the $6,000 threshold. Compared to 2016’s average of $5,731, the 2017 average bronze plan deductible for individuals is 6% higher ($6,092). For families enrolled in bronze plans, the average deductible is over $12,000 in 2017.

Cost-Sharing Category 2017 Avg. for Individuals 2017 Avg. for Families of four.

Deductible (Medical) $6,092 $12,39."

These numbers are before subsidies, and do not take into account Medicaid availability.

Yes, some folks live in Red States which have opted out of Medicaid, etc., and these people are screwed... by conservative, i.e., Republican, regimes.
Elsewhere millions of people have insurance who previously did not.

 You're right, tomwct is blatantly lying.  Trump has absolutely no qualms with hurting the average American to win political points.  The simple way to describe Trump is he's a coward and an evil man.  I'd say most of his loyal supporters are very much like him. 

[tomwct]

6 hours ago, darksidedog said:

And that shows how totally out of touch with reality this administration is. The only logical and rational explanation remaining for Trumps behaviour is, he simply has a personal agenda involving Obama. He wants to rub out legislation that carries the Obama name, and to hell with what that might do to the average man in the street. This is a mean, vindictive and narcissistic man. who becomes more repulsive with every ill thought out tweet.

The only people that want to keep ObamaCare is the 9-10 million that get it free. Most are joblesss or don't want to work and free is free. This is a failed system and getting worse everyday. Even the ones that get it free can't use it because of $12,000 to 18,000 deductibles. Socialism won't work in America. 80% of Americans want to pick and choose their insurance.

 

I do think it would be a smart move to cancel the extra insurance benefits that the politicians get that the average citizen does not get. This would force them into repealing ObamaCare and produce a market based insurance for all! This would reduce insurance costs, you can choose your insurance and keep your doctors. This maybe the last choose the President can make by Executive Order since he'll be just cancelling Obama's Executive Order for these benefits.

 

Edited July 30, 2017 by tomwct

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, tomwct said:

The only people that want to keep ObamaCare is the 9-10 million that get it free. Most are joblesss or don't want to work and free is free. This is a failed system and getting worse everyday. Even the ones that get it free can't use it because of $12,000 to 18,000 deductibles. Socialism won't work in America. 80% of Americans want to pick and choose their insurance.

...

 

Totally wrong the first time you said that and STILL wrong. 

To add, recent polls show a healthy majority support for keeping the ACA law intact.

But of course, it's not perfect, and there is lots of support for fixing the problems in a bipartisan way.

But the sleazy POTUS is all about "wins" and revenge. So far he is showing no signs of being a real leader, accepting that the majority of the people actually do want to keep ACA intact, and lead an effort to fix it.

In short, it's not ACA that's a disaster. It's trump. 

[fvw53]

6 hours ago, tomwct said:

The only people that want to keep ObamaCare is the 9-10 million that get it free. Most are joblesss or don't want to work and free is free. This is a failed system and getting worse everyday. Even the ones that get it free can't use it because of $12,000 to 18,000 deductibles. Socialism won't work in America. 80% of Americans want to pick and choose their insurance.

 

Why does it work in all other developed nations ?

[stevenl]

16 minutes ago, tomwct said:

The only people that want to keep ObamaCare is the 9-10 million that get it free. Most are joblesss or don't want to work and free is free. This is a failed system and getting worse everyday. Even the ones that get it free can't use it because of $12,000 to 18,000 deductibles. Socialism won't work in America. 80% of Americans want to pick and choose their insurance.

 

I do think it would be a smart move to cancel the extra insurance benefits that the politicians get that the average citizen does not get. This would force them into repealing ObamaCare and produce a market based insurance for all! This would reduce insurance costs, you can choose your insurance and keep your doctors. This maybe the last choose the President can make by Executive Order since he'll be just cancelling Obama's Executive Order for these benefits.

 

A very similar post to another one you made earlier, which has been proven wrong many times already.

[dunroaming]

He is nuts, this is just more evidence of it.  Everyone knows that Obamacare is flawed but it just needs improving.  Trump makes everything personal and is obsessed with Obama and for someone in his position that is absolutely pathetic.  Everyday there is are tweets attacking someone or something.  I sincerely hope that there is going to be something provable about the Russian involvement because this man has to be stopped or sectioned.  Can't believe there are still posters like tomwct that are so misguided to keep trying to defend the moron POTUS.

[Jingthing]

The biggest irony about all this health care mess is that trump has a unique opportunity to be one of the greatest American presidents by doing one surprising thing. For him to aggressively now support UNIVERSAL coverage which any dumbo knows is the ONLY possible way to both cover all Americans and significantly reduce per capita health care spending. He would have a chance of actually passing it that a President Sanders or a President Franken would not. He could get almost all the democrats plus even if he only got about 20 percent of republicans it might be enough. This is something that has been a goal of civilized Americans since FDR. He could do it. 

 

But, alas, we all know, he won't. 

I wonder if he even realizes the opportunity he is squandering. 

 

Any solution other than universal is simply a COST SHIFTING game. Picking different winners and losers and deciding what percentage of the population is palatable to deny any access to coverage. It's not rocket science. There is no other answer. 

Edited July 30, 2017 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

In keeping with the heading of this thread, yes trump is on the warpath and he still wants to trash the now popular ACA bill.

I have no idea whether he will succeed (and what the republican leadership will do) but this article details the current situation rather well:

 

Quote

 

Why Obamacare Is Still in Peril

After this failure, Republicans must figure out whose example they will follow. They can adopt Mr. Trump’s call for yet another scorched-earth campaign. Or they can listen to the likes of Mr. McCain about the benefits of bipartisanship and cooperation.

 

 

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/28/opinion/aca-republicans-mccain-murkowski-collins.html

Edited July 30, 2017 by Jingthing

[maewang99]

if the debt limit isn't increased real soon....

no one will be getting any kinds of checks from Uncle Sam.

that's the law until revoked or amended.
2015 Boehner Obama "reconciliation"... US style.

 

the law.



 

[Jingthing]

5 hours ago, maewang99 said:

if the debt limit isn't increased real soon....

no one will be getting any kinds of checks from Uncle Sam.

that's the law until revoked or amended.
2015 Boehner Obama "reconciliation"... US style.

 

the law.



 

You're right but I think that is a separate topic from this more specific threat from the angry clown potus.

[Thakkar]

11 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

s he doing this because it is the right thing to do? Of course not. Is he doing this after an objective analysis of the facts? Of course not. Not his style. He does not really analyze facts. He barely reads. He is not interested in the wisdom he would get from study. He is all about emotion, anger, and vengeance

Was watching Preibus being interviewed after "resigning" in which he tries to find a word to describe Trump, to try and say something nice about him. He doesn't say the man is smart, thoughtful, deliberative, or anything like that. The word he settles on is "intuitive" — which may be his polite way of saying Trump just does things by the seat of his pants. 

 

Seeing the chaos and lack of results (unless the intention was to have chaotic results) from Trump's decisions, it's hard to conclude that he has either studied the issues, assessed the facts or put any deliberative thought into his decisions.

 

Intuitive indeed.

 

T

[ilostmypassword]

6 hours ago, maewang99 said:

if the debt limit isn't increased real soon....

no one will be getting any kinds of checks from Uncle Sam.

that's the law until revoked or amended.
2015 Boehner Obama "reconciliation"... US style.

 

the law.



 

Yes. And Carthago delendo est, (Carthage must be destroyed) which is what Cato the Elder said at the conclusion of every one of his speeches. I bet that got tiresome real fast. Enough already.

[boomerangutang]

 

7 hours ago, fvw53 said:

Why does it work in all other developed nations ?

One answer:  wealthy are taxed.  A big part of the US imbroglio is: many American wealthy (who already have relatively low tax rates) ....want to decrease their tax rates further.  That's embedded (you could say 'hidden') in the current Republican Health Care bill.  

 

Note:  health care at prisons is not bad.   Don't be surprised if some Americans break the law in order to go to prison to get some health care.  Was it Norway?  I can't recall, but there's at least one European country where some elderly people break the law in order to get thrown in jail, because it's at least food and shelter - compared to hardscrabble existence on sidewalks.

 

Another offshoot we'll likely see from the broken US system, with highest pharma costs in the world, and other v. expensive issues:   an increasing # of Americans, particularly low-income elderly, will go visit Mexico, Thailand and other places where medical costs are much lower than the US.   

[Basil B]

Hopefully it will be a case of Trump being all mouth and no trousers...

[joecoolfrog]

14 hours ago, tomwct said:

The only people that want to keep ObamaCare is the 9-10 million that get it free. Most are joblesss or don't want to work and free is free. This is a failed system and getting worse everyday. Even the ones that get it free can't use it because of $12,000 to 18,000 deductibles. Socialism won't work in America. 80% of Americans want to pick and choose their insurance.

 

Socialised healthcare works well in most of the rest of the developed world. No reason that a single payer system shouldn't work well in the USA , its simply corporate greed and individuals dogmatic , illogical fear that prevents it happening.

 

[Nigel Garvie]

14 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

 

Yet if a person drinks like a Bowery bum, and smokes 3 packs of cigs a day, should public coffers pay for a liver transplant, lung transplant, heart transplant, and all the other expensive fixes that person will need?  I say no.

I do come from a western country where we have "free" healthcare,  of course we pay for it through our taxes. Though I understand your point of view (I think for example that obese people should be given a pair of trainers and told to take some exercise), what you say here is not really accurate. They will almost always not give a Lung transplant to someone who doesn't stop smoking, or a liver transplant to someone who does not stop drinking. This is not a moral judgement (The person doesn't deserve the treatment) but a practical one, if you don't get healthy you are unlikely to benefit from the transplant whereas others would.

 

What I think is critical though is that the US - despite having wonderful doctors, in magnificently equipped  clinics, offering the latest treatments - is a healthcare failure. In the HALE adjusted life expectancy table the US comes 36th, behind Cuba, the Maldives, and Croatia. Needless to say all the main European countries, plus Japan (1st) Singapore, Canada, NZ and Aus etc have significantly longer life expectancy. Add to this dismal record the fact that the US is spending considerably more per capita on healthcare than any other country, then even a bawbag like Trump should be able to work out that the system isn't working. This is what Obama was making the first tentative steps in trying to repair, and stop the US public being utterly ripped of by doctors and insurance companies, often working in cahoots with one another.

 

It is a measure of a decent person, that they care about others in the world less fortunate than themselves. Conversely it is the measure of a civilised society that it takes care of the disadvantaged within it.  It is hard to argue that the US qualifies for the label "Civilised" on this count. 

[Trouble]

15 hours ago, Jingthing said:

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

ACA exchange health plans are never free. They are SUBSIDIZED at different levels based on income.

Traditional MEDICAID which existed before ACA has nothing to do with ACA.

ACA did expand Medicaid in many states, but that was rejected by many states as well. 

Expanded Medicaid provides coverage for the significant portion of the population, mostly working, that aren't poor enough to qualify for traditional Medicaid, but not making enough (still quite low) to enter the highest level of subsidies for ACA exchange private plans.

Was that the group you were talking about? Those using expanding Medicaid?

Again, most of them are working.

Also  the low income Americans qualifying for higher subsidies, that's a very significant number of people.

Also, the Americans that could not qualify to buy any plan, regardless of subsidy level, because of PREEXISTING CONDITIONS, and now can under ACA, are you seriously trying to sell the republican B.S. that most of those people are not happy with ACA?

I get it that people getting towards upper middle class incomes paying full price or low subsidies for ACA plans are less happy.

Nobody said ACA was perfect. It's not. But it was a step in the right direction from the status quo before ACA, and also, it's important to keep in mind that the core structure of ACA (mandates, penalties, etc.) was a REPUBLICAN idea.

As soon as a democratic president, and God Forbid a black one demonized by demagogic bigots like trump as not even an American, supported it, then they were against it. Sleazy politics ... nothing to do with helping the people. 

 

An interesting theory about how the sleazy republicans have milked their hypocritical opposition to ACA for political gain up till now ...

 

"Republicans had quite the racket going—a very long, nearly successful con. For seven years, they convinced much of the country that every health care–related problem people faced could be directly attributed to Obamacare, a socialist plot enacted by Democratic votes and signed into law by nefarious Barack Obama."

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/07/republicans_never_really_hated_obamacare.html

 

The problem with the entire issue is the fact that nothing was clearly presented to the American people nor did Congress debate the Obamacare plan when it was first passed.  It was fraudulently represented in a big way to the American people.  Further it is very difficult to get concise figure as to how many people were on Medicaid, how many are on the expanded medicaid, how many receive subsidies on the parts of Obamacare and how many are on the plan that pay their own way.  It is quite obviously the insurance companies have had to withdraw from some areas and have lost money to the tune of hundreds of billions as well, and have raised premiums almost everywhere in an attempt to balance their books.  You can go on name calling Republicans, lambasting insurance companies, drug companies, etc. all you want but the simple economic fact of the matter is that the money to pay for health care for Medicaid and subsidized health care has to come from somewhere and Obamacare used faulty methodology to try and fund the program.  So yes it is nice that more people have health care but the poor guy who was paying for his family is now paying higher premiums to subsidize someone else.  All that bullshit that Obama preached as he went around the country was blatantly false.  That's what many of the people are upset about. If the Democrats and Republicans want to provide a health care system for everyone that's fine with me.  Just create a national sales tax and tax everyone according to what they spend to pay for it.  Fair for everyone.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Trouble

[connda]

This is what happens when the government gets involved in healthcare.  Congress and the Senate need to get out of the healthcare business and allow market forces to bring healthcare costs back in line. 

[WaywardWind]

6 hours ago, Trouble said:

The problem with the entire issue is the fact that nothing was clearly presented to the American people nor did Congress debate the Obamacare plan when it was first passed.  It was fraudulently represented in a big way to the American people.  Further it is very difficult to get concise figure as to how many people were on Medicaid, how many are on the expanded medicaid, how many receive subsidies on the parts of Obamacare and how many are on the plan that pay their own way.  It is quite obviously the insurance companies have had to withdraw from some areas and have lost money to the tune of hundreds of billions as well, and have raised premiums almost everywhere in an attempt to balance their books.  You can go on name calling Republicans, lambasting insurance companies, drug companies, etc. all you want but the simple economic fact of the matter is that the money to pay for health care for Medicaid and subsidized health care has to come from somewhere and Obamacare used faulty methodology to try and fund the program.  So yes it is nice that more people have health care but the poor guy who was paying for his family is now paying higher premiums to subsidize someone else.  All that bullshit that Obama preached as he went around the country was blatantly false.  That's what many of the people are upset about. If the Democrats and Republicans want to provide a health care system for everyone that's fine with me.  Just create a national sales tax and tax everyone according to what they spend to pay for it.  Fair for everyone.

Have you ever taken the time to turn off Fox News, and research the origins and the operation of the ACA?

 

From your statements above, it is clear that either you haven't done so, or you did not understand what you were reading, because virtually every complaint that you assert is dead wrong.

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, connda said:

This is what happens when the government gets involved in healthcare.  Congress and the Senate need to get out of the healthcare business and allow market forces to bring healthcare costs back in line. 

Which is why virtually every industrialized country - where governments are heavily involved with health care - has a far better record than the USA?

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, connda said:

This is what happens when the government gets involved in healthcare.  Congress and the Senate need to get out of the healthcare business and allow market forces to bring healthcare costs back in line. 

Exactly, to guarantee that many will not be able to have insurance.

[spidermike007]

15 hours ago, Thakkar said:

Was watching Preibus being interviewed after "resigning" in which he tries to find a word to describe Trump, to try and say something nice about him. He doesn't say the man is smart, thoughtful, deliberative, or anything like that. The word he settles on is "intuitive" — which may be his polite way of saying Trump just does things by the seat of his pants. 

 

Seeing the chaos and lack of results (unless the intention was to have chaotic results) from Trump's decisions, it's hard to conclude that he has either studied the issues, assessed the facts or put any deliberative thought into his decisions.

 

Intuitive indeed.

 

T

 

He is literate, as far as I know. He actually went to university, after he was able to secure his Vietnam deferments due to a "bone spur". A real front line man. More than likely he would wet his pants if he faced a bullet, or a gun, or even a street fight. He talks tough, but you know he is one of those guys who would go down with a slap across the face. 

 

He refuses to read, nor study up on an issue. He clearly thinks he always knows what is best, regardless of the facts, which are of little consequence. You see, when you are the smartest man in the world, you do not have to study. You just know. I suppose that was what Preibus was talking about. He had nothing good to say about the man, as there is nothing good to say. What could he say? He is a fool? He is a gangster? He is a crime lord? He mistrusts everyone, and is suspicious of everyone? He loves only himself? He is arrogant, foolish, impetuous, naive, hateful, racist, xenophobic, inexperienced, and foolhardy. He cannot lead. He cannot rally congress or the senate to back him. He cannot keep his house in order. I mean what could the man really say?

[Thakkar]

11 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 I mean what could the man really say?

 

Yada, yada?

 

 

 

 

[tonray]

3 hours ago, connda said:

This is what happens when the government gets involved in healthcare.  Congress and the Senate need to get out of the healthcare business and allow market forces to bring healthcare costs back in line. 

Perhaps that will work once government gets out of the capital markets and banking. Let market forces bring things back in line and then we can talk about the rest.

[Skywalker69]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

 

He is literate, as far as I know. He actually went to university, after he was able to secure his Vietnam deferments due to a "bone spur". A real front line man. More than likely he would wet his pants if he faced a bullet, or a gun, or even a street fight. He talks tough, but you know he is one of those guys who would go down with a slap across the face. 

 

He refuses to read, nor study up on an issue. He clearly thinks he always knows what is best, regardless of the facts, which are of little consequence. You see, when you are the smartest man in the world, you do not have to study. You just know. I suppose that was what Preibus was talking about. He had nothing good to say about the man, as there is nothing good to say. What could he say? He is a fool? He is a gangster? He is a crime lord? He mistrusts everyone, and is suspicious of everyone? He loves only himself? He is arrogant, foolish, impetuous, naive, hateful, racist, xenophobic, inexperienced, and foolhardy. He cannot lead. He cannot rally congress or the senate to back him. He cannot keep his house in order. I mean what could the man really say?

I give you one like and hope they restore the like buttons soon!

[Bill Miller]

On 7/30/2017 at 2:32 PM, tomwct said:

The only people that want to keep ObamaCare is the 9-10 million that get it free. Most are joblesss or don't want to work and free is free. This is a failed system and getting worse everyday. Even the ones that get it free can't use it because of $12,000 to 18,000 deductibles. Socialism won't work in America. 80% of Americans want to pick and choose their insurance.

 

I do think it would be a smart move to cancel the extra insurance benefits that the politicians get that the average citizen does not get. This would force them into repealing ObamaCare and produce a market based insurance for all! This would reduce insurance costs, you can choose your insurance and keep your doctors. This maybe the last choose the President can make by Executive Order since he'll be just cancelling Obama's Executive Order for these benefits.

 

You really are very ignorant I believe. The ACA, AKA "Obamacare", was not the result of executive orders.
It was passed into law by the 111th Congress and signed into law by President Obama on March 23rd, 2010.
The insurance companies still compete for the business. The ACA does not replace insurance companies. There goes your "market based" suggestion.
What exactly are the "extra insurance benefits" the politicians all have? Congress critters and their staff are in fact required to participate in the ACA. They have, as do most civilian employees, a partial subsidy of the premiums by their employer, who is yes, the federal government.
Yes, there is a Federal clinic where members can go for a band aid or some aspirin. Not big budget medical.
Why don't you learn something about this stuff you keep spouting from places other than Trump tweets and uber right wing reactionary "news" sources? I am not suggesting HuffPo or Daily Kos, either. Congressional Budget Office reports are available on line, as an example, or do you still think they are controlled by Obama and Clinton?
By the way, "...this may be the last choose..." is completely meaningless. Did you by chance mean choice? Take a moment to proof read, and/or use spell check.

[Thakkar]

4 hours ago, connda said:

This is what happens when the government gets involved in healthcare.  Congress and the Senate need to get out of the healthcare business and allow market forces to bring healthcare costs back in line. 

I didn't think it  possible to fit so much ignorance into two sentences. But then, I didn't think Americans would ever vote in such an imbecilic president either, so wha do I know, eh?

 

It would take a long, long screed to unpack and refute the amount of ignorance packed so tightly into those sentences, and I' sorely tempted. But I'll take Oscar Wild's advice instead:

 

"Ignorance is like a delicate exotic fruit; touch it and the bloom is gone"

 

T

[YetAnother]

On 7/30/2017 at 7:38 AM, rooster59 said:

Without assurances, many plan to raise rates an additional 20 percent by an Aug. 16 deadline for premium prices.

hard to believe; havent lived there in a Long time, however i recall the health insurance premiums and deductibles were borderline within reach of the middle of the middle class at that time

[YetAnother]

On 7/30/2017 at 7:38 AM, rooster59 said:

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump threatened on Saturday to end government payments to health insurers

the usa is subsidizing health insurers ?