Mangmoom Card - is it ever going to happen?

[Argus Tuft]

Heading back to Bangkok in 2 weeks.  Have been following the "one card to rule them all" story for a few years, and it did seem the cross-system spider card was getting close to launch again a few months back

 

Any recent updates on this from anyone?  Can't seem to find anything later than April.

 

Would be interested to hear where it stands now...

[Argus Tuft]

For anyone new to the saga - the Mangmoom Card is supposed to be a stored value smart card which will be accepted for travel across the BTS, MRT, ARL systems so that multiple cards are not longer necessary.

[Estrada]

Actually it is already being used by 200,000 people as part of the testing period. The Ministry of Transport announced that, from 1st October 2017, Bangkok commuters will get to use the new Mangmoom (spider in Thai) Card — a stored value card that can be used with the Bangkok Mass Transit Authority’s NGV buses and at the interchange stations of the MRT system, the BTS Skytrain system and the Airport Rail Link system. The primary goal of the Ministry of Transport is that the joint ticket will be available for 5 routes: MRT Blue Line, MRT Purple Line, BTS Silom line, BTS Sukhumvit line and NGV buses.  At first the Mangmoom card will be installed at interchange stations, such as Chatuchak Station, Asoke Station, Phayathai Station etc. All other stations will be upgraded to be able to use mangmoom cards by March 2018.
 

[Lakegeneve]

2 hours ago, Estrada said:

Actually it is already being used by 200,000 people as part of the testing period. The Ministry of Transport announced that, from 1st October 2017, Bangkok commuters will get to use the new Mangmoom (spider in Thai) Card — a stored value card that can be used with the Bangkok Mass Transit Authority’s NGV buses and at the interchange stations of the MRT system, the BTS Skytrain system and the Airport Rail Link system. The primary goal of the Ministry of Transport is that the joint ticket will be available for 5 routes: MRT Blue Line, MRT Purple Line, BTS Silom line, BTS Sukhumvit line and NGV buses.  At first the Mangmoom card will be installed at interchange stations, such as Chatuchak Station, Asoke Station, Phayathai Station etc. All other stations will be upgraded to be able to use mangmoom cards by March 2018.
 

I'm not sure that you should believe everything that you cut and paste there Estrada.

 

Yes, for the 1 Oct launch on some BMTA buses - though I highly doubt that 200K people are "already using it" - where did you get that info????.

 

However, a big no for the MRT, BTS and ARL for at least 12 months (or longer) according to the latest update from Crossy from 11 July 2017;

Quote

 

The Low Income variant of Mangmoom (may be) operating on (some) buses this year.

 

But as yet, none of the rail operators have had any instruction from OTP / MOT / PM to start work modifying the systems to accept the card. Since there is no advantage to the operators to accept the card, they will do nothing until forced to (an issue not unique to Thailand).

 

The upgrade is not a small job with significant software changes needed to the front-end kit, blame the government committees for that with their highly complex business rules. I estimate 1 year to implement from a notice to proceed (and no contractors are involved yet).

 

I am sure that he will reply to this thread soon and can add more.

[Estrada]

2 hours ago, Lakegeneve said:

I'm not sure that you should believe everything that you cut and paste there Estrada.

 

Yes, for the 1 Oct launch on some BMTA buses - though I highly doubt that 200K people are "already using it" - where did you get that info????.

 

However, a big no for the MRT, BTS and ARL for at least 12 months (or longer) according to the latest update from Crossy from 11 July 2017;

I am sure that he will reply to this thread soon and can add more.

I originally served as an advisor to the MRTA in 1994 and have been following the progress of the Mass Transit system for the last 35 years. I have published articles on the Grey Line Monorail and BTS extensions here in Bnagkok. I get updates from the Minister of Transport, my fellow engineers working for CK, ITD, STEC, BTS, BEM, Siemens, Bombardier etc as well as the BMA. I got this update from  a Thai engineer  friend, who translated it from Thai. 200,000 cards were issued for testing during the current testing period. They need another 1 million cards. As I published above, the card cannot be used effectively until March next year.

[Katipo]

The spider card launch has been delayed, quite possibly well into 2018.

 

The cards are not the problem, but more likely the system integration and compatibility side of things.

[Crossy]

@EstradaI don't want to worry you but I'm afraid your sources are misinformed. Are you still in the transit industry? Fancy a beer? PM me.

 

As of today a total of no, none, nada, zero cards have been issued for test, anywhere. OTP have about 150,000 (have to verify the number) "Limited Edition" cards sitting in boxes on the 4th floor, but there's no equipment out there that can process them and no company set up to operate the clearing system (supposed to be sorted by MRTA).

 

BTS have received no instruction to implement the card, even with a Notice to Proceed today it's unlikely that it could be working in less than 18 months. Same with BEM and SRTET.

 

The only railway I know that will be using the card is the Red Line, opening in 2020 ish. It took a lot of persuading to get SRT to agree, and they still want their own card as backup.

 

EDIT As of now there are  :-

• 180k Adult cards in stock at OTP, with another 100k on order.
• 1.5 million of the special dual-interface Low Income variant card on order, no idea of expected delivery date. These are the cards which will go live on the buses later in the year, maybe.

 

[blackcab]

On 04/08/2017 at 3:14 PM, Crossy said:

EDIT As of now there are  :-

• 180k Adult cards in stock at OTP, with another 100k on order.
• 1.5 million of the special dual-interface Low Income variant card on order, no idea of expected delivery date. These are the cards which will go live on the buses later in the year, maybe.

 

What do you mean when you say Low Income?

[Crossy]

31 minutes ago, blackcab said:

What do you mean when you say Low Income?

One of the features of Mangmoom is the ability to class a card as "low income", persons registered as low income can get one of these (complete with a photo on the card).

 

The feature automatically loads to a set value each month which is usable only for travel (initially bus only). The idea being that the free bus will be phased out.

 

The government has decided that these cards will also entitle the holders to discount/free electricity and water, in order to be compatible with the existing ID card readers the cards need to have a contact interface as well as the normal contactless. Hence the need to buy >1.5 million dual-interface cards.

 

All going to be fun making it work.

[Lakegeneve]

On 8/5/2017 at 4:14 PM, Crossy said:

One of the features of Mangmoom is the ability to class a card as "low income", persons registered as low income can get one of these (complete with a photo on the card).

 

The feature automatically loads to a set value each month which is usable only for travel (initially bus only). The idea being that the free bus will be phased out.

 

The government has decided that these cards will also entitle the holders to discount/free electricity and water, in order to be compatible with the existing ID card readers the cards need to have a contact interface as well as the normal contactless. Hence the need to buy >1.5 million dual-interface cards.

 

All going to be fun making it work.

Depressing news Crossy.

 

It really is beyond stupidity that commuters will still have to suffer for another couple of years while the MRTA and MOT work out how to implement a common ticketing platform that they first started discussing back in 2008! A requirement to implement such should have been part of the contract terms for every new contract since 2014.

 

 

[Crossy]

2 hours ago, Lakegeneve said:

Depressing news Crossy.

Tell me about it LG, myself and some very senior colleagues have been trying to get something on the lines of Octopus going since before 2008.

 

Thwarted at every turn by politics or commercial issues (or both).

 

We really need a government agency with teeth, along the lines of LTA in Singapore. What they say, goes, or else!

 

[kkerry]

I wonder what will happen first... Red Bull "Boss" returns to Thailand to face justice... or Bangkok gets a travel card usable across multiple train and bus services... too close to call?

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 8/11/2017 at 5:20 PM, Crossy said:

Tell me about it LG, myself and some very senior colleagues have been trying to get something on the lines of Octopus going since before 2008.

 

Thwarted at every turn by politics or commercial issues (or both).

 

We really need a government agency with teeth, along the lines of LTA in Singapore. What they say, goes, or else!

 

 

That fits with my recollection as well. I had friends who worked for BTS, and remember having discussions with them in the early 2000s, like 2004-06, about plans at the time for BTS and MRT to have some kind of joint ticketing system.  And now more than 10 years later, zippo.

 

Thailand, the land of broken promises and dreams.

 

[Estrada]

On ‎8‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 3:14 PM, Crossy said:

@EstradaI don't want to worry you but I'm afraid your sources are misinformed. Are you still in the transit industry? Fancy a beer? PM me.

 

As of today a total of no, none, nada, zero cards have been issued for test, anywhere. OTP have about 150,000 (have to verify the number) "Limited Edition" cards sitting in boxes on the 4th floor, but there's no equipment out there that can process them and no company set up to operate the clearing system (supposed to be sorted by MRTA).

 

BTS have received no instruction to implement the card, even with a Notice to Proceed today it's unlikely that it could be working in less than 18 months. Same with BEM and SRTET.

 

The only railway I know that will be using the card is the Red Line, opening in 2020 ish. It took a lot of persuading to get SRT to agree, and they still want their own card as backup.

 

EDIT As of now there are  :-

• 180k Adult cards in stock at OTP, with another 100k on order.
• 1.5 million of the special dual-interface Low Income variant card on order, no idea of expected delivery date. These are the cards which will go live on the buses later in the year, maybe.

 

Following yesterdays meeting with MRTA, BTS, and BEM and all interested parties it was announced that the MoU between BTS and BEM for the joint ticketing system, Mangmoon card will be signed on August 31.

For non-transport operators, there are currently negotiations with CP, Central and the Mall.

On October 1st, passengers will be able to use Mangmoon card with BMA buses, then by the end of 2017 - early 2018 the card used with the Airport Rail Link and the Purple Line. The MRT and BTS lines will gradually start implementing the card from mid 2018 onwards.
 

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Are the funds going to expire after a month like on that  stupid Rabbit card?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, Estrada said:

On October 1st, passengers will be able to use Mangmoon card with BMA buses, then by the end of 2017 - early 2018 the card used with the Airport Rail Link and the Purple Line. The MRT and BTS lines will gradually start implementing the card from mid 2018 onwards.
 

I'll believe it when I see it. And that probably won't be any time soon.

 

[kkerry]

12 minutes ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

Are the funds going to expire after a month like on that  stupid Rabbit card?

 

If you are an infrequent traveler, use the stored value option. Your Rabbit card credit is then valid for two years.

 

If you think you can't use all your credit for train travel in that time, you can also use it to make purchases at various retail outlets. 

[Argus Tuft]

1 minute ago, kkerry said:

 

If you are an infrequent traveler, use the stored value option. Your Rabbit card credit is then valid for two years.

 

If you think you can't use all your credit for train travel in that time, you can also use it to make purchases at various retail outlets. 

^ yes, this

 

I use it as stored value, not as trips (which expire each month)

My credit lasts for two years, and as I am only in Bangkok every few months, this is perfect.  Top up before I leave, ready to go when I land

[Lakegeneve]

On 8/21/2017 at 9:29 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I'll believe it when I see it. And that probably won't be any time soon.

 

MRTA is still saying  mid 2018 for the metro lines for what it is worth.........

 

https://mgronline.com/business/detail/9600000088698

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

11 minutes ago, Lakegeneve said:

MRTA is still saying  mid 2018 for the metro lines for what it is worth.........

 

https://mgronline.com/business/detail/9600000088698

BK Mag had an article the other day on BTS's planned fare hike upcoming. And in that article, they referred to the Mangmoom project as being "indefinitely delayed." Rightly or wrongly.

 

[Lakegeneve]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

BK Mag had an article the other day on BTS's planned fare hike upcoming. And in that article, they referred to the Mangmoom project as being "indefinitely delayed." Rightly or wrongly.

 

Based on Crossy's info I'd say rightly for the metros.

 

However, it still seems that the roll out on some BMTA buses will start (very slowly) by next month or slip towards the end of the year......

[Crossy]

13 minutes ago, Lakegeneve said:

However, it still seems that the roll out on some BMTA buses will start (very slowly) by next month or slip towards the end of the year......

"Something" will certainly go live on the buses, equipment is installed and limited testing is under way.

 

Staff are frantically programming and personalising "Low Income" cards. Just how many will be ready and distributed (and for that matter whether they will actually work) is unclear at this time. I don't believe that the regular-Somchai will be able to buy and use a "normal" card this year. But we shall see.

 

By the way, if you are Thai and earn under 400 Baht per day you can register for the Low Income card which doubles as a PromptPay card to get subsidised power and water (currently MEA / MWA region only I believe).

 

What we can guarantee is a big public show on go-live day, probably followed by a period of total silence as the engineers work out the bugs.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

They're great at making grand announcements.

 

Not so great at actually making those announced things work, or keeping them working once they've been launched.

 

[Argus Tuft]

News update today from Thai Visa Line feed:

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-ticket-system-skytrain-subway-trains-delayed/

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Argus Tuft said:

News update today from Thai Visa Line feed:

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-ticket-system-skytrain-subway-trains-delayed/

 

 

 

I think in the ThaiPBS report, they actually mean it probably won't be ready by March 2018 -- even though the article says March 2017.  Not hard to predict that it won't be ready by March 2017, since that was 5+ months ago.

 

Dates, numbers, details, facts, correct information -- never a particular strong suit of Thai journalism.

 

Now, if they could just get their board to approve them all taking their heads out of their a**es...

 

 

[CLW]

I recently saw some card reader at BMTA busses installed and some information in Thai about E-Ticket. Has this something to do with the introduction of the Mangmoon card or is it yet another separate card?

[Crossy]

38 minutes ago, CLW said:

I recently saw some card reader at BMTA busses installed and some information in Thai about E-Ticket. Has this something to do with the introduction of the Mangmoon card or is it yet another separate card?

Weeelllll, sort of, at least theoretically it's the Low Income incarnation of Mangmoom.

 

But ...

 

Sorry, but Thailand's libel and defamation laws prevent me from revealing my true opinion (I had zero to do with the BMTA job).

 

Let's just say someone "forgot" to read the Mangmoom requirements spec.

 

[blackcab]

14 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Let's just say someone "forgot" to read the Mangmoom requirements spec.

 

That's ok. Just change the spec to v.4.0.

[Crossy]

Just now, blackcab said:

That's ok. Just change the spec to v.4.0.

Do not even joke about that ...

 

[CLW]

Please don't tell me they are not compatible with the Mangmoon card...