Change of permanent address on immigration file nightmare

[Grumpy Old Man]

I would like to share my nightmare of an experience trying to change my permanent address on my Thai Immigration file and do my 90 Day reporting. . . . .

 

I turned up at Chiangmai Thai Immigration centre "The makeshift collection of desks and offices" to process my change of permanent address from Bangkok to Chiangmai and process my 90 Day report, an easy job you'd think, not so as it seems.

 

Firstly after standing in a queue for nearly an hour I was told the office / deck to firstly change my address was upstairs as I can't change my address and do my 90 day report at the same time or office.

 

I go upstairs to another office / desk and join another queue for approximately another hour before producing the required TM28, UK passport with Visa Etc, yellow book for my new address, Thai driving licence in my new address and copies of all to prove my change of address from Bangkok to Chiangmai; at this point you'd think it was a done deal, well not so. . . . . 

 

Not interested in my UK Passport or Thai driving licence, fair enough.

 

They are looking for the TM 30 receipt from my Bangkok rented apartment address and the TM 30 receipt from my wife from our own family home in Chiangmai; I replied saying, the TM30 reporting and receipt for the rented apartment in Bangkok is the responsibility of the owner not me, contact them.

 

I then asked why does my wife have to report on a TM30 when I have a yellow book for our family home; we also visit her parents once a week in Chiangrai province being 25Km away for approximately 26 / 28 hours does that mean they have to report on a TM30 an "Alien" is staying in the house and my wife have to report on a TM30 when we return home to Chiangmai province 26 / 28 hours later; then came the subject of my Monday to Friday in Bangkok and the apartment owner have to do a TM30 every Monday morning or within 24 Hours because I am now in a different province; I then return to Chiangmai on Friday night and I am being told that my wife has to report a TM30 there is an "Alien" staying at my own family home. . . . . I think you get the issues I am now facing

 

I only wanted to change my permanent address to my family home in Chiangmai for 90 Day reporting purposes and all this crap started. . . . .     

 

Still haven't managed to get my address changed because the issue of outstanding TM30 fines came up and they wouldn't process my change of address until the "FINES" had be paid Etc. even after I reminded them that TM30 reporting and TM30 fines are not my responsibility . . . . TO BE CONTINUED      

[BuddyDean]

Many of us got dinged for 1600...if you complain, they threaten to multiply it.  How much did they tell you?  It does sound like you made it overly comp!heated, even though you were being honest.  Logic doesn't work up here.  

[rumak]

if you win your battle with CM  immigration you will be the first !    suggest you find the least painful (and cheapest)

way out.   just a suggestion (up to you)

[rumak]

Only way to avoid a fine at CM immigration is as follows:

you must have a current tm30.......OR.....have just arrived in the country (24 hours)

you then must have the owner (or housemaster as they say) of your new residence report you

as having JUST arrived (again,24 hours) at their location  ( owners must have a signed lease and other

documents to show as well) .  If owners documents are accepted they are issued a receipt which should

be given to you  ( MY daughter now goes there with the new tenant to do all this.  BUT, if the person does

not have a previous up to date tm30 they WILL BE FINED.   those that kicked and screamed and said it was

not their responsibility, still lost!   BTW:  owners of residences have also been fined on occasion.

If you do not change addresses you only have to return to immig. regarding the tm30 when you return from

a trip out of the country.  ( questions about overnight stays, in country vacations, etc always come up but

that is best left up to the individual to figure out best answer  :-)

 

[gabruce]

1 hour ago, rumak said:

Only way to avoid a fine at CM immigration is as follows:

you must have a current tm30.......OR.....have just arrived in the country (24 hours)

you then must have the owner (or housemaster as they say) of your new residence report you

as having JUST arrived (again,24 hours) at their location  ( owners must have a signed lease and other

documents to show as well) .  If owners documents are accepted they are issued a receipt which should

be given to you  ( MY daughter now goes there with the new tenant to do all this.  BUT, if the person does

not have a previous up to date tm30 they WILL BE FINED.   those that kicked and screamed and said it was

not their responsibility, still lost!   BTW:  owners of residences have also been fined on occasion.

If you do not change addresses you only have to return to immig. regarding the tm30 when you return from

a trip out of the country.  ( questions about overnight stays, in country vacations, etc always come up but

that is best left up to the individual to figure out best answer  :-)

 

I'll just note that I had to pay the TM30 fine because I stayed in a hotel overnight in Bangkok before proceeding to ChiangMai - arriving home on a Sunday morning. Monday morning was more than 24 hours from the time I entered the country. Unfair in my view, and I paid the fine because they insisted.There may have been some issue as well as my entry card listed ChiangMai as my destination.

[worgeordie]

Welcome to Chiang Mai. !

regards Worgeordie

[rumak]

Gabruce,, Maybe you were next in line after Grumpy Old Man ?     Just kidding folks !   CMI  definitely can ruin one's

day .....

[Skeptic7]

Totally asinine, outrageous, silly and stupid...yet absolutely, totally, completely 100% Thai! So all is as it has been and always will be. Sorry to hear about your troubles, but at least take solace in knowing a lot (most) of us feel your pain and empathize.

 

You are not alone...

[CMKiwi]

Hey BuddyDean,

 

   logic isnt just missing from 'up here'. I think it applies to the most if not all of Thailand.  Sometimes however it seems that the bureaucratics double dip in this catergory.  Anything that will generate income (Additional or otherwise) seems to be a government officials mantra.

 

  They ovbiously havent heard of or used the acronym K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid) for they need to keep things so complicated that its easier to confuse customers into paying ludicrous fines.

 

  Maybe its something to do with their pay packets or lack thereof why they do this?  But it is strange that CM Immigration appear to be the most difficult to deal with unless....you use an agent!

[zaZa9]

I know this is about a poor fellows problems with CM.

And it appears those in Phuket will have the same issues IF they attend Patong Immigration.

BUT , it also appears that currently Phuket Town Immigration are not interested in these petty  '24 hour deadlined , "I didnt stay in my loom" idiotic issues.

So Phuket readers , just go to PT and carry on as before ...

[zaZa9]

Why are there no more Post numbers here  btw  ?

[habanero]

9 hours ago, CMKiwi said:

Hey BuddyDean,

 

   logic isnt just missing from 'up here'. I think it applies to the most if not all of Thailand.  Sometimes however it seems that the bureaucratics double dip in this catergory.  Anything that will generate income (Additional or otherwise) seems to be a government officials mantra.

 

  They ovbiously havent heard of or used the acronym K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid) for they need to keep things so complicated that its easier to confuse customers into paying ludicrous fines.

 

  Maybe its something to do with their pay packets or lack thereof why they do this?  But it is strange that CM Immigration appear to be the most difficult to deal with unless....you use an agent!

 

15 hours ago, Grumpy Old Man said:

I would like to share my nightmare of an experience trying to change my permanent address on my Thai Immigration file and do my 90 Day reporting. . . . .

 

I turned up at Chiangmai Thai Immigration centre "The makeshift collection of desks and offices" to process my change of permanent address from Bangkok to Chiangmai and process my 90 Day report, an easy job you'd think, not so as it seems.

 

Firstly after standing in a queue for nearly an hour I was told the office / deck to firstly change my address was upstairs as I can't change my address and do my 90 day report at the same time or office.

 

I go upstairs to another office / desk and join another queue for approximately another hour before producing the required TM28, UK passport with Visa Etc, yellow book for my new address, Thai driving licence in my new address and copies of all to prove my change of address from Bangkok to Chiangmai; at this point you'd think it was a done deal, well not so. . . . . 

 

Not interested in my UK Passport or Thai driving licence, fair enough.

 

They are looking for the TM 30 receipt from my Bangkok rented apartment address and the TM 30 receipt from my wife from our own family home in Chiangmai; I replied saying, the TM30 reporting and receipt for the rented apartment in Bangkok is the responsibility of the owner not me, contact them.

 

I then asked why does my wife have to report on a TM30 when I have a yellow book for our family home; we also visit her parents once a week in Chiangrai province being 25Km away for approximately 26 / 28 hours does that mean they have to report on a TM30 an "Alien" is staying in the house and my wife have to report on a TM30 when we return home to Chiangmai province 26 / 28 hours later; then came the subject of my Monday to Friday in Bangkok and the apartment owner have to do a TM30 every Monday morning or within 24 Hours because I am now in a different province; I then return to Chiangmai on Friday night and I am being told that my wife has to report a TM30 there is an "Alien" staying at my own family home. . . . . I think you get the issues I am now facing

 

I only wanted to change my permanent address to my family home in Chiangmai for 90 Day reporting purposes and all this crap started. . . . .     

 

Still haven't managed to get my address changed because the issue of outstanding TM30 fines came up and they wouldn't process my change of address until the "FINES" had be paid Etc. even after I reminded them that TM30 reporting and TM30 fines are not my responsibility . . . . TO BE CONTINUED      

You should have brought ?

[Dipterocarp]

16 hours ago, Grumpy Old Man said:

I would like to share my nightmare of an experience trying to change my permanent address on my Thai Immigration file and do my 90 Day reporting. . . . .

 

I turned up at Chiangmai Thai Immigration centre "The makeshift collection of desks and offices" to process my change of permanent address from Bangkok to Chiangmai and process my 90 Day report, an easy job you'd think, not so as it seems.

 

Firstly after standing in a queue for nearly an hour I was told the office / deck to firstly change my address was upstairs as I can't change my address and do my 90 day report at the same time or office.

 

I go upstairs to another office / desk and join another queue for approximately another hour before producing the required TM28, UK passport with Visa Etc, yellow book for my new address, Thai driving licence in my new address and copies of all to prove my change of address from Bangkok to Chiangmai; at this point you'd think it was a done deal, well not so. . . . . 

 

Not interested in my UK Passport or Thai driving licence, fair enough.

 

They are looking for the TM 30 receipt from my Bangkok rented apartment address and the TM 30 receipt from my wife from our own family home in Chiangmai; I replied saying, the TM30 reporting and receipt for the rented apartment in Bangkok is the responsibility of the owner not me, contact them.

 

I then asked why does my wife have to report on a TM30 when I have a yellow book for our family home; we also visit her parents once a week in Chiangrai province being 25Km away for approximately 26 / 28 hours does that mean they have to report on a TM30 an "Alien" is staying in the house and my wife have to report on a TM30 when we return home to Chiangmai province 26 / 28 hours later; then came the subject of my Monday to Friday in Bangkok and the apartment owner have to do a TM30 every Monday morning or within 24 Hours because I am now in a different province; I then return to Chiangmai on Friday night and I am being told that my wife has to report a TM30 there is an "Alien" staying at my own family home. . . . . I think you get the issues I am now facing

 

I only wanted to change my permanent address to my family home in Chiangmai for 90 Day reporting purposes and all this crap started. . . . .     

 

Still haven't managed to get my address changed because the issue of outstanding TM30 fines came up and they wouldn't process my change of address until the "FINES" had be paid Etc. even after I reminded them that TM30 reporting and TM30 fines are not my responsibility . . . . TO BE CONTINUED      

Welcome to Chiang Mai! Chiang Mai Immigration started with the the TM30 last year. It has been a nice little earner for them.

I stay in a condo unit that I have owned since 2008. Like many others I had to pay 1600 baht. Now I update at Promenada every time within 24 hours of arrival.

 

Your situation is more complicated how many different fines are they trying to get you for?

[midas]

11 hours ago, gabruce said:

I'll just note that I had to pay the TM30 fine because I stayed in a hotel overnight in Bangkok before proceeding to ChiangMai - arriving home on a Sunday morning. Monday morning was more than 24 hours from the time I entered the country. Unfair in my view, and I paid the fine because they insisted.There may have been some issue as well as my entry card listed ChiangMai as my destination.

 

 

Are you saying they fined you even though you arrived in Chiang Mai on Sunday after staying overnight in Bangkok which was Saturday and both days immigration would have been closed? Surely you could have lodged an objection about that?

[Dipterocarp]

12 hours ago, gabruce said:

I'll just note that I had to pay the TM30 fine because I stayed in a hotel overnight in Bangkok before proceeding to ChiangMai - arriving home on a Sunday morning. Monday morning was more than 24 hours from the time I entered the country. Unfair in my view, and I paid the fine because they insisted.There may have been some issue as well as my entry card listed ChiangMai as my destination.

 

Had you payed the 1600 before? Fines are not due for days immigration is closed.

 

Same situation once this year stayed first night in BKK, arrived in CM on TG too late to attend Imm. 

I went in the next morning.

There is one lady IO at the TM30 office every day (young, short hair, basically no English)

I sensed she was about to pounce closely examining my passport and arrival card with a frown!

 

I proffered the printed receipt from ALOFT Bangkok and my boarding pass from TG and I was off the hook.

 

Edited October 4, 2017 by Dipterocarp

[MaeJoMTB]

I don't even understand 'changing permanent address', 90 day reports require no proof of address, you just fill it out and hand it in.

Mind you, I've given up on anything to do with CM immigration 18 months back. I get my marriage VISA from Laos and get a flight out of CM every 90 days ......... none of this silliness with reporting anything to anyone, just my address on my entry form.

[CMBob]

Based on what I've experienced, what Immigration has told me, and what other posters (who seem to be clear and knowledgeable about the subject), the original TM30 has to be signed by the owner and cannot be signed by the so-called tenant.  Updating, of course, can be done by either the tenant or the owner.

 

I'm confused a bit by the OP's story but it seems to me that any fines levied relate to no TM30 having been ever filed for the OP (whether in Bangkok and/or wherever the "family home" is located). I'm also confused by his TM28 comments.  Most posters here over the last two years who have tried to file one have had them handed back to them (Immigration doesn't want them).

 

Unfortunately, due to the confusion, the OP's story doesn't really help clarify what are the rules about the subject here in CM. 

Edited October 4, 2017 by CMBob

[jak2002003]

So, let me get this straight....

 

If I go out of the country for a holiday... then arrive back to my home in Chiang Mai... I have to go to the immigration office within 24 hours to.... tell them I am back in the country?  

 

We have never done that before.  They see out passports each time to do a 90 day report, and when we renew our visas, and they have never said anything about us being out of the country.

 

If, this time, I go down there to report we are back I might be giving them their opportunity to get into typical CM immigration staff mode and start charging me lots of fines.

 

Or, is this reporting in 24 hours thing a new rule? 

 

I looked on the net and there is nothing about having to do this.. as the immigrating at the airport stamps the passport and processes the information.. then at the next 90 day they have the info at Chiang Mai immigration office.   Maybe if the airport immigration is used, then people don't have to go to the Prom Immigration office?

 

 

 

 

[hml367]

7 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

So, let me get this straight....

 

If I go out of the country for a holiday... then arrive back to my home in Chiang Mai... I have to go to the immigration office within 24 hours to.... tell them I am back in the country?  

 

We have never done that before.  They see out passports each time to do a 90 day report, and when we renew our visas, and they have never said anything about us being out of the country.

 

If, this time, I go down there to report we are back I might be giving them their opportunity to get into typical CM immigration staff mode and start charging me lots of fines.

 

Or, is this reporting in 24 hours thing a new rule? 

 

I looked on the net and there is nothing about having to do this.. as the immigrating at the airport stamps the passport and processes the information.. then at the next 90 day they have the info at Chiang Mai immigration office.   Maybe if the airport immigration is used, then people don't have to go to the Prom Immigration office?

 

 

 

 

Section 37 of the Immigration Act (1979)

Edited October 4, 2017 by hml367

[sqwakvfr]

Arrived at CNX Airport at 1800 on a Wednesday and on Thursday at 1000 I was at the 2nd level TM 30 Office at Promenada to comply with the reporting requirement(within 24 hours of returning to Thailand).  It does not make sense to me but so far I have the following papers stapled to my passport: 1) TM 6-Departure/Arrival Card  2) Receipt of Notification of Address  3) 90 Day Report Notification.  I believe I have complied with all applicable Immigration Regulations(that is until I am told to do something else).  

[midas]

1 hour ago, jak2002003 said:

So, let me get this straight....

 

If I go out of the country for a holiday... then arrive back to my home in Chiang Mai... I have to go to the immigration office within 24 hours to.... tell them I am back in the country?  

 

We have never done that before.  They see out passports each time to do a 90 day report, and when we renew our visas, and they have never said anything about us being out of the country.

 

If, this time, I go down there to report we are back I might be giving them their opportunity to get into typical CM immigration staff mode and start charging me lots of fines.

 

Or, is this reporting in 24 hours thing a new rule? 

 

I looked on the net and there is nothing about having to do this.. as the immigrating at the airport stamps the passport and processes the information.. then at the next 90 day they have the info at Chiang Mai immigration office.   Maybe if the airport immigration is used, then people don't have to go to the Prom Immigration office?

 

 

 

 

 

" If I go out of the country for a holiday... then arrive back to my home in Chiang Mai... I have to go to the immigration office within 24 hours to.... tell them I am back in the country?  "

 

I did this because I didn't want to be fined and it appeared to me that they certainly expected everyone to do be doing this. But instead of the huge list of photocopies of various documents they wanted when it was first done and because it was simply a renewal of reporting after being absent the lady simply asked for a photo copy of the i.d. part of the passport with your photo and a copy of the arrival card showing the stamp you get after arrival at the airport. That's all.

Then she tore out the existing receipt stapled in the back of the passport from when the reporting was first done and replaced it with a new one. 

[stag4]

If you have not changed your address do you still need to report to immigration within 24 hours of returning from overseas?

 

[CMBob]

15 minutes ago, midas said:

....the lady simply asked for a photo copy of the i.d. part of the passport with your photo and a copy of the arrival card showing the stamp you get after arrival at the airport. That's all.

When I'm updating, they've told me that all I have to do is hand them my passport.  They then play with their computer for a few seconds and add a date stamp (with or without the circular red stamp) to the existing TM30 Notification of Receipt stapled in the back of my passport.  And I've done this 5-6 times over the last couple of years within 1 to 5 days after re-entering the country without any problem at all. 

 

I did prepare some documents the first time I updated but they handed them back to me and said all they need is the passport with the existing TM30 Notification of Receipt.

[BuddyDean]

21 minutes ago, stag4 said:

If you have not changed your address do you still need to report to immigration within 24 hours of returning from overseas?

 

Yes, this is for certain.  A few are even claiming you do it when you leave the province, but that has much less verification, and people dinged for that, may not have been in compliance here.  I actually changed an airline ticket so I arrive on a Wednesday instead of a Saturday to avoid Monday at Prom.  I am thinking about taking some crackers and doing a fake vomit on their floor if they are uncooperative.

[midas]

1 hour ago, stag4 said:

If you have not changed your address do you still need to report to immigration within 24 hours of returning from overseas?

 

 

yes-somebody has to - either your landlord or you

[Dante99]

1 hour ago, CMBob said:

When I'm updating, they've told me that all I have to do is hand them my passport.  They then play with their computer for a few seconds and add a date stamp (with or without the circular red stamp) to the existing TM30 Notification of Receipt stapled in the back of my passport.  And I've done this 5-6 times over the last couple of years within 1 to 5 days after re-entering the country without any problem at all. 

 

 

If they think your are nice, even 7-10 days is okay.

[Si Thea01]

What is it with Immigration in Chiang Mai, why are there so many problems.  I had to change my permanent address almost three months ago now, after I had moved from Loei to Nakhon Pathom province.  As I recently sold my Thai properties, I now rent, so this was a new immigration experience for me.  After obtaining my lease agreement, copies on the landlord's signed house book and ID, my passport and the signed TM forms, I attended Nakhon Pathom immigration. 

 

Here I spoke to an officer, told her why I was there and even though she had a client, she took my documents, and within a couple of minutes processed his and then mine.  I was then informed that I would have to return in a month for my 90 report but if I was not able to, then anyone I knew could do so.  It took a whole 10 minutes and  it was all over red rover.  I do have an advantage though, I am able to speak Thai and maybe this and being polite was why everything went smoothly. 

[Grumpy Old Man]

TO BE CONTINUED and concluded.

 

At this stage I must introduce my wife and it will put the continuation and conclusion in persecutive; Mrs "Grumpy Old Man" has worked for the same corporation for over twenty three years being recruited before even finishing University and hold three degrees in different business related subjects, I guess you'd say she's a very smart cookie. . . . 

 

Her current corporate position includes document constancy, document investigations including document fraud; to say she is very precise, meticulous and tenacious is an understatement; she always says, if something smells fishy and she feels someone is taking the piss, it usually does and they usually are.

 

After my nightmare at Chiangmai immigration "See Above" and confirming the information I had relayed to her was correct and accurate she didn't bother with the immigration office at Promenada Chiangmai she contacted the "Thai Immigration  Investigations Division" based near the airport in Chiangmai and had a word in their skull, I will never know the full extent of the conversation but I would guess it was very polite but firm.

 

I had an appointment with an Officer from the  "Thai Immigration  Investigations Division" at 09100Hrs today and my wife also confirmed the documents I was required to take with me.

 

The Officer I had my appointment with spoke excellent English and that made this so much easier; he listened to my report of the pervious days nightmare and checked the documents I had brought with me; he then apologised for the way I was treated at the immigration office at Promenada.

 

He then took the submitted documents and let his fingers do the walking on his computer keyboard and produced a document with a few red stamps and signatures on it with the instructions of, make copies of this, keep the original in your passport and when dealing with any immigration issues submit a copy of this document with all other required documents and you'll not have a problem.

 

The  "Thai Immigration  Investigations Division"  Officer I was dealing with for my immigration issue was so helpful and professional if I wasn't there myself I would never have believed it, I take my hat off to him.

 

I now have a completed notification of permanent change of address to Chiangmai, no TM30 issues including "Fines" and I'll do my 90 Day report on Wednesday . . . Bonus !

 

I am under no illusion that without my wife's intervention, her experience with documentation, policies and procedures there would have been a far different outcome; there my immigration nightmare concludes. . . . . .   

[BuddyDean]

Sure would be easy if you could do a walk in there after getting off the plane at CNX.  I thought the hut was closed down, but that isn't the first report of people getting g service there after everything was moved.  What did he tell you about coming back from BKK?

[hml367]

11 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Man said:

TO BE CONTINUED and concluded.

 

At this stage I must introduce my wife and it will put the continuation and conclusion in persecutive; Mrs "Grumpy Old Man" has worked for the same corporation for over twenty three years being recruited before even finishing University and hold three degrees in different business related subjects, I guess you'd say she's a very smart cookie. . . . 

 

Her current corporate position includes document constancy, document investigations including document fraud; to say she is very precise, meticulous and tenacious is an understatement; she always says, if something smells fishy and she feels someone is taking the piss, it usually does and they usually are.

 

After my nightmare at Chiangmai immigration "See Above" and confirming the information I had relayed to her was correct and accurate she didn't bother with the immigration office at Promenada Chiangmai she contacted the "Thai Immigration  Investigations Division" based near the airport in Chiangmai and had a word in their skull, I will never know the full extent of the conversation but I would guess it was very polite but firm.

 

I had an appointment with an Officer from the  "Thai Immigration  Investigations Division" at 09100Hrs today and my wife also confirmed the documents I was required to take with me.

 

The Officer I had my appointment with spoke excellent English and that made this so much easier; he listened to my report of the pervious days nightmare and checked the documents I had brought with me; he then apologised for the way I was treated at the immigration office at Promenada.

 

He then took the submitted documents and let his fingers do the walking on his computer keyboard and produced a document with a few red stamps and signatures on it with the instructions of, make copies of this, keep the original in your passport and when dealing with any immigration issues submit a copy of this document with all other required documents and you'll not have a problem.

 

The  "Thai Immigration  Investigations Division"  Officer I was dealing with for my immigration issue was so helpful and professional if I wasn't there myself I would never have believed it, I take my hat off to him.

 

I now have a completed notification of permanent change of address to Chiangmai, no TM30 issues including "Fines" and I'll do my 90 Day report on Wednesday . . . Bonus !

 

I am under no illusion that without my wife's intervention, her experience with documentation, policies and procedures there would have been a far different outcome; there my immigration nightmare concludes. . . . . .   

 

 

I have never done a TM30 transaction at Promenada. I always do them now at the office you are referring to - even though it was reported on ThaiVisa Chiang Mai forum that it could not be done.

 

The Investigations office has always been polite, efficient, and quick.  My wife with me or not has had no effect on how I have been treated in this office.