SURVEY: Brexit -- Good or Bad Idea?

[simoh1490]

Just now, nauseus said:

The lying part

Goodbye, we're done.

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, rufanuf said:

Its called "curve fitting" Simon. all kinds of people use economic figures to try and prove their points. Where intelligent people figured out a lifetime ago, that statistics can be used to prove or disprove ANY argument.

It's kinda difficult to bend the curve of historic forex rates, they were what they were, suggesting otherwise is a bit like trying to say Christmas last year didn't fall on the 25th December!

[rufanuf]

Just now, simoh1490 said:

It's kinda difficult to bend the curve of historic forex rates, they were what they were, suggesting otherwise is a bit like trying to say Christmas last year didn't fall on the 25th December!

Which is exactly what your saying.

[simoh1490]

OK, I'm guessing this is mostly a UK poster debate that's raising these challenges to fact and I do appreciate it's been a long evening/night for many. So I'm happy to leave things there and I'll go about my business in Thailand whilst others sleep it off and I'll pick up the debate again during more sensible debating hours.

[MaeJoMTB]

Just now, simoh1490 said:

OK, I'm guessing this is mostly a UK poster debate that's raising these challenges to fact and I do appreciate it's been a long evening/night for many. So I'm happy to leave things there and I'll go about my business in Thailand whilst others sleep it off and I'll pick up the debate again during more sensible debating hours.

 

It's 9am in Thailand.

[simoh1490]

3 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

 

It's 9am in Thailand.

I know, I'm in Mae Rim, but it's only 2am in the UK and boy does it show. Go take a look at post 924 from yesterday around this time, today is just a repeat.

Edited November 9, 2017 by simoh1490

[MaeJoMTB]

Just now, simoh1490 said:

I know, I'm in Mae Rim, but it's only 2am in the UK and boy does it show.

(Looks out the window)

Bit misty over your way this morning.

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, MaeJoMTB said:

(Looks out the window)

Bit misty over your way this morning.

It is to my West, over the mountains but the flats over the rice paddies look good, I love the chilly mornings and evenings.

[rufanuf]

14 minutes ago, rufanuf said:

Which is exactly what your saying.

Well at least you didn't ask me what I mean. So I guess there is hope yet.

 

When you move away from debating what economic indicators may or may NOT mean about Brexit, you will be able to have a sensible debate about Brexit, with Brexiteers. Until that time it will just be a load people laying their interpretation of the facts onto their chosen political position. Its because most remoaners rather selfishly only think about their economic circumstance that they cannot get their heads around people who voted leave and by the looks of the poll here would still vote leave. Because they are NOT focused on their own short term economic situation. Brexiteers could make as stronger argument for why for example a fall in the value of the pound is a positive thing for the UK as Remoaners could make an argument for the opposite....see the futility of a debate that isn't focused on the issues. Brexiteers want freedom from outside rule of the United Kingdom....and frankly could give a **** about the short term economic consequence. Perhaps you only need to look at Catalonia to understand why.

Edited November 9, 2017 by rufanuf

[ilostmypassword]

7 minutes ago, rufanuf said:

Well at least you didn't ask me what I mean. So I guess there is hope yet.

 

When you move away from debating what economic indicators may or may NOT mean about Brexit, you will be able to have a sensible debate about Brexit, with Brexiteers. Until that time it will just be a load people laying their interpretation of the facts onto their chosen political position. Its because most remoaners rather selfishly only think about their economic circumstance that they cannot get their heads around people who voted leave and by the looks of the poll here would still vote leave. Because they are NOT focused on their own short term economic situation. Brexiteers could make as stronger argument for why for example a fall in the value of the pound is a positive thing for the UK as Remoaners could make an argument for the opposite....see the futility of a debate that isn't focused on the issues. Brexiteers want freedom from outside rule of the United Kingdom....and frankly could give a **** about the short term economic consequence. Perhaps you only need to look at Catalonia to understand why.

A sensible date with name-calling, apparently.

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, rufanuf said:

Well at least you didn't ask me what I mean. So I guess there is hope yet.

 

When you move away from debating what economic indicators may or may NOT mean about Brexit, you will be able to have a sensible debate about Brexit, with Brexiteers. Until that time it will just be a load people laying their interpretation of the facts onto their chosen political position. Its because most remoaners rather selfishly only think about their economic circumstance that they canot get their heads around people who voted leave and by the looks of the poll here would still vote leave. Because they are NOT focused on their own short term economic situation. Brexiteers could make as stroner argument for why for example a fall in the value of the pound is a positive thing for the UK as Remoaners could make an argument for the opposite....see the futility of a debate that isn't focused on the issues. Brexiteers want freedom from outside rule of the United Kingdom....and frankly could give a **** about the short term economic consuence. Perhaps you only need to look at Catalonia to understand why.

It's great to have this sense of idealism and patriotism and I mean that quite sincerely, but it's impossible to divorce that from the prevailing economics. For example: as it was the population was asked to vote for Brexit or Remain, but if they'd been asked to vote in the knowledge that Brexit could mean a substantial cut in standards of living and services, I wonder what the percentage split would have been, do you really think that the view you've expressed is representative of that of the population, somehow I don't think so.  As for any pain being short term, that has to be a hope and a wish rather than anything of greater substance.

[rufanuf]

1 minute ago, simoh1490 said:

It's great to have this sense of idealism and patriotism and I mean that quite sincerely, but it's impossible to divorce that from the prevailing economics. For example: as it was the population was asked to vote for Brexit or Remain, but if they'd been asked to vote in the knowledge that Brexit could mean a substantial cut in standards of living and services, I wonder what the percentage split would have been, do you really think that the view you've expressed is representative of that of the population, somehow I don't think so.  As for any pain being short term, that has to be a hope and a wish rather than anything of greater substance.

So you are back to implying all those who voted to leave are idiots? And you wonder why you get labelled as remoaners. Oh dear.

[simoh1490]

16 minutes ago, rufanuf said:

So you are back to implying all those who voted to leave are idiots? And you wonder why you get labelled as remoaners. Oh dear.

I have absolutely no idea how you managed to get from what I wrote, to what you wrote in reply, so I'm just going to skip your post entirely. I can only presume you don't have an answer to what I wrote so you decided to try and discredit it by reading something into it that was neither written, implied or even thought about.

 

OK, good bye for now, I've got get about my business.

[rufanuf]

20 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

I have absolutely no idea how you managed to get from what I wrote, to what you wrote in reply, so I'm just going to skip your post entirely. I can only presume you don't have an answer to what I wrote so you decided to try and discredit it by reading something into it that was neither written, implied or even thought about.

 

OK, good bye for now, I've got get about my business.

Thats exactly why you cannot understand that the EU is a dictatorship.

[simoh1490]

2 hours ago, rufanuf said:

Thats exactly why you cannot understand that the EU is a dictatorship.

What you wrote is not even loosely connected to what we were debating!

 

You're not in this for a serious debate are you, you're in it because you either want change no matter what, at any cost and regardless of the consequences or, you're consumed by the patriotism bug and it's all emotional on your part which you're trying to disguise, rather  unsuccessfully, with word plays - given that you wrote, "Brexiteers want freedom from outside rule of the United Kingdom" I suspect strongly it's the latter of the two. That being the case we don't have much we can debate together I'm afraid.

[rufanuf]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

What you wrote is not even loosely connected to what we were debating!

 

You're not in this for a serious debate are you, you're in it because you either want change no matter what, at any cost and regardless of the consequences or, you're consumed by the patriotism bug and it's all emotional on your part which you're trying to disguise, rather  unsuccessfully, with word plays - given that you wrote, "Brexiteers want freedom from outside rule of the United Kingdom" I suspect strongly it's the latter of the two. That being the case we don't have much we can debate together I'm afraid.

What is a serious debate? One in which one side or the other convinces the other that they are right? If so your correct I am not in it for a serious debate. We have so many poorly educated, "educated types" now in Europe whose education is more like an indoctrination than a useful edcuated outlook on the worlds problems. That being said If I can convince just one of these poor deluded fellows, it wouldnt have been a wasted effort. And I know I have made at least two people change their minds about the merits of the EU since the Brexit vote happened. So there is light at the end of the tunnel.

[aright]

On ‎08‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 11:08 AM, Grouse said:

Brexit is bad but I wouldn't suggest it's a Malthusian Catastrophe ?

Typical Remainer! My dinner's in the oven so sod you!

[simoh1490]

22 minutes ago, rufanuf said:

What is a serious debate? One in which one side or the other convinces the other that they are right? If so your correct I am not in it for a serious debate. We have so many poorly educated, "educated types" now in Europe whose education is more like an indoctrination than a useful edcuated outlook on the worlds problems. That being said If I can convince just one of these poor deluded fellows, it wouldnt have been a wasted effort. And I know I have made at least two people change their minds about the merits of the EU since the Brexit vote happened. So there is light at the end of the tunnel.

On the basis of that I think you can join your inebriated chum from this morning on my ignore list because you're just wasting peoples time in this. Bye!

[rufanuf]

5 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

On the basis of that I think you can join your inebriated chum from this morning on my ignore list because you're just wasting peoples time in this. Bye!

You will ignore everything, until your freedom is taken away. Then it will be too late.

[SheungWan]

On 11/6/2017 at 9:15 PM, rufanuf said:

What do you know then? That the rest of us don't? Simply amazes me that so many stupid people think big government is a good idea, reagardless of ANY economic reason in favour of or against the EU..the EU is simply a repeat effort by this generations power brokers, using this generations methods, as the last generations powerbrokers using the last generations methods. Greedy people trying to carve up the fruits of as many other normal hardworking people between themselves as they possibly can. It never ends....just cycles.

Mr Normal cycles in circles.

[SheungWan]

On 11/7/2017 at 4:39 AM, Khun Han said:

 

Just read it. Absolutely nothing of substance in it. Just a remain journalist trying to create a story out of nothing.

Good job we have your contributions offering us vice versa.

[SheungWan]

8 hours ago, rufanuf said:

What is a serious debate? One in which one side or the other convinces the other that they are right? If so your correct I am not in it for a serious debate. We have so many poorly educated, "educated types" now in Europe whose education is more like an indoctrination than a useful edcuated outlook on the worlds problems. That being said If I can convince just one of these poor deluded fellows, it wouldnt have been a wasted effort. And I know I have made at least two people change their minds about the merits of the EU since the Brexit vote happened. So there is light at the end of the tunnel.

And then you untied them?

Edited November 9, 2017 by SheungWan

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, rufanuf said:

You will ignore everything, until your freedom is taken away. Then it will be too late.

Looking at the current Brexit shambles its Too Late. To Apologise.

 

 

[Khun Han]

8 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Looking at the current Brexit shambles its Too Late. To Apologise.

 

 

 

Is there no end to your talents? Fully qualified dressmaker, connoisseur of boy bands.....you'll be telling us that you're an expert on the weekly soaps next.

[Jip99]

9 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Looking at the current Brexit shambles its Too Late. To Apologise.

 

 

 

 

Personally, I prefer D:Ream...

 

 

[adammike]

43 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Is there no end to your talents? Fully qualified dressmaker, connoisseur of boy bands.....you'll be telling us that you're an expert on the weekly soaps next.

I am sure he is an expert on the Conservative party. 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

On 08/11/2017 at 5:34 AM, simoh1490 said:

And that's another feature of Brexiteers, when an article or set of numbers is put forward to support an argument by the remain camp, it's always exactly what you just wrote in your post above, we think the source is biased, we don't like them so we won't believe them, go find something else that we will believe. There's never a hint of Brexiteers saying, OK, but here's a different data set that shows you're wrong and we're right, it's always, that's rubbish we don't believe it, go get something else to show us, next! It's nonsense, utter utter nonsense.

So all the facts presented by both sides were correct?

I have talked to a few people that really can't grasp what it was about, most voted "Status Quo" but want the EU to reform(?). Others wanted stay in their peer group of friends, Labour or Conservative.

The nonsense is Brussels:

Here's a clue for those that don't understand (and I have another that explains the use and manipulation of statistics for the simple minded):

 

 

This was written by someone who understood, had been in high politics long before the EU Constitution and Maastricht farce or the Euro, never mind the ex-USSR countries joining and the flood of immigrants. It is brilliantly portrayed by some fine actors. Sometimes humour is the best way to explain to those that do not comprehend, while all can have a laugh at the same thing.

Enjoy.

 

 

Edited November 9, 2017 by George FmplesdaCosteedback

[dundee48]

20 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Well we know it was cheaper because there were hardly any (meaningful) currencies that didn't see a gain versus the Pound, the only question is how much. And since I wrote "by up to 20%" I'm quite happy for people to pick and chose on this point. GBP fell by around 14% and THB as you have said fell by about 18%, it was the worst fall in the value of the Pound in over 30 years:  https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/23/british-pound-given-boost-by-projected-remain-win-in-eu-referendum

Hahahahah-the guardian.Where the remoaners get 90% of their "facts".Hahahahaha.

They never learn and keep on quoting this rag.

Edited November 9, 2017 by dundee48

[SheungWan]

16 minutes ago, dundee48 said:

Hahahahah-the guardian.Where the remoaners get 90% of their "facts".Hahahahaha.

They never learn and keep on quoting this rag.

In BrexiteerLand it is OK to hold the graphs upside down.

Edited November 9, 2017 by SheungWan

[dundee48]

1 minute ago, SheungWan said:

In BrexiteerLand it is OK to hold the graphs upside down.

In remoaner land it is ok to read the guardian-hahahaha.