Adsl In Bangkok

[Bluecat]

There is quite a long and detailed thread on the ADSL in Chiang Mai, with quite a few problems mentioned,...

Are there more service providers in Bangkok?

There are new offers popping up every day and I have difficulty making up my mind on whether I should switch to ADSL or not.

And the CM adsl thread did not help.

Are there people in Bangkok happy with the service?

And if yes, which one?

[lopburi3]

I have had the TRUE 256/128 for a month now and very happy with it. Always tests at 251-254 to Mcafee but connection is at 281-288 and downloads about 100m per hour (although limit is 70m so they must use an average for that). Less than one "loss of ADSL signal" disconnect per day and speed always seems to be at or above advertised rate.

This is a 14 baht per hour service after 40 hours each month 750 baht basic service so not for someone using internet 24 hours a day. But for some of use it provides a reliable and moderate price service. Higher speeds are available but at double the cost for double the speed would not consider it a good deal.

No installation is required and was using service 48 hours after requesting.

And yes, it is really, really nice to be able to download a 50 mg software in a few minutes and to listen to music while you play.

[Guest chingy]

True/clickta=trash, over price, bad services, talk more than action.

ToT 512/256 unlimited international, belong to governm., connection is decent, bad services also, hey! 600baht a month im not complaining, say what you like for 600baht i have the last laught.

[bkk_mike]

I'm on a special offer from True - for Internet Cafes...

2,400 baht/month for always on 512/256 International, which took a bit of hunting for, but seems pretty decent so far. (being for Internet Cafe's - I can have multiple PCs hooked up to the router).

Have had no issues since getting the router up and running, and picking up the ADSL signal.

On bandwidth, I haven't noticed any problem, but it's not like I'm sitting repeatedly going to a speed check site... (and even if I was - the connection is shared between multiple PCs, so would be the amount of bandwidth the router gave that PC, and not necessarily the amount of bandwidth the router had)

However... - downloads from Mozilla or Microsoft generally report average transfer speed of over 55KBytes/sec, so I'm happy. (even large files of 50-60Mb - thats the average transfer speed). Only caveat - I telecommute to a job in the UK, so I'm logged in in the evenings normally. If there are bandwidth issues in the morning - I wouldn't be aware of it)

[ChiangMaiThai]

Why are BKK prices so much more reasonable than everywhere else?

[george]

Why are BKK prices so much more reasonable than everywhere else?

BKK is nearer the backbone. That means quicker and cheaper.

[Guest chingy]

Why are BKK prices so much more reasonable than everywhere else?

maybe its the capital of Thailand

[ChiangMaiThai]

Why are BKK prices so much more reasonable than everywhere else?

maybe its the capital of Thailand

Thanks. And so the question is, if prices can be reasonable in the capital, why can't they be reasonable in other major cities as you find in a number of other countries? I think george may have answered this.

[Firefoxx]

I don't think that prices in Bangkok have come down to an affordable level yet (at least, not for realistic service). Although prices have come down considerably (only a few years ago, it would be 22,000/month for unlimited 64k), it's still relatively expensive compared to other countries. Considering that Thailand has had broadband for about as long as other countries with FAR cheaper/faster broadband, this is not an ideal situation.

TA (now True) does have 512k unlimited international ADSL for 2,400/month. However, there is a gotcha, and that is that it's for internet cafes in the "Goodnet" program. Yes, there are legal documents to sign, with tons of "you must do this" and "do this or else" regarding cafe conduct. If you call the sales people at True, they will say that it's OK, an individual can buy it, no problem, mai pen rai. But if things get ugly, they won't be there to help you out, since they already got their comission.

The other "promotions" at TA all involve the notorious "local" net. You get unlimited "local" access for a sub-1000 baht/month fee. Of course, unless you're only playing online games, this is next to useless. If you want to use "real" internet, then you use another login, and pay by the hour (and it ain't cheap). Some have gotten around this by paying extra for semi-legal "vpn" services, which effectively doubles the monthly fee, but allows "real" internet access 24/7. Oh, did I mention that most areas using "local" net are given a private IP? And that your download is limited to a certain amount? And the "non-stop internet" they advertise so much is actually limited to 24hours, after which they cut you off.

CS/Loxinfo has introduced a 256k unlim/inter deal for 1,000/month. The catch is that it's only for TOT lines. So far TOT ADSL coverage (and line reliability) has been very sub-par, even in Thai standards.

Many people thought that the CAT's (Communication Authority of Thailand) HiNet program would be a godsend. Wow, 2 mbits of real unlimited internet for only 1,000/month, unheard of in Thailand but typical elsewhere. However, there are big catches. 1. It's only for TT&T lines (with TOT/True expected, but no date given) 2. You get a private IP (which means a lot of applications are not possible) and 3. (my favorite) The 2 mbit speed applies only to local sites, you are capped at 128kbit for international sites. The reliability also hasn't been great, with outages measured in the several hours. You would think that the entity which by law owns ALL international and local links (and overcharges ISPs HEAVILY for those links) would be able to give a decent internet service. But hey, TIT, and CAT is full of goverment officials.

The TOT has its own ADSL service, but it's comparable in speed/price to True. Reliability and coverage are NOT comparable and downright abyssmal.

I think all the new ADSL action in Thailand this year is just old goverment entities paying lip service to the ICT's demands for affordable ADSL. It looks good on paper (ie. all the glowing press releases), but in reality it's just a huge wreck. I'm not surprised, since this is the modus operandi Thai government.

[ChiangMaiThai]

I don't think that prices in Bangkok have come down to an affordable level yet (at least, not for realistic service). Although prices have come down considerably (only a few years ago, it would be 22,000/month for unlimited 64k), it's still relatively expensive compared to other countries. Considering that Thailand has had broadband for about as long as other countries with FAR cheaper/faster broadband, this is not an ideal situation.

TA (now True) does have 512k unlimited international ADSL for 2,400/month. However, there is a gotcha, and that is that it's for internet cafes in the "Goodnet" program. Yes, there are legal documents to sign, with tons of "you must do this" and "do this or else" regarding cafe conduct. If you call the sales people at True, they will say that it's OK, an individual can buy it, no problem, mai pen rai. But if things get ugly, they won't be there to help you out, since they already got their comission.

The other "promotions" at TA all involve the notorious "local" net. You get unlimited "local" access for a sub-1000 baht/month fee. Of course, unless you're only playing online games, this is next to useless. If you want to use "real" internet, then you use another login, and pay by the hour (and it ain't cheap). Some have gotten around this by paying extra for semi-legal "vpn" services, which effectively doubles the monthly fee, but allows "real" internet access 24/7. Oh, did I mention that most areas using "local" net are given a private IP? And that your download is limited to a certain amount? And the "non-stop internet" they advertise so much is actually limited to 24hours, after which they cut you off.

CS/Loxinfo has introduced a 256k unlim/inter deal for 1,000/month. The catch is that it's only for TOT lines. So far TOT ADSL coverage (and line reliability) has been very sub-par, even in Thai standards.

Many people thought that the CAT's (Communication Authority of Thailand) HiNet program would be a godsend. Wow, 2 mbits of real unlimited internet for only 1,000/month, unheard of in Thailand but typical elsewhere. However, there are big catches. 1. It's only for TT&T lines (with TOT/True expected, but no date given) 2. You get a private IP (which means a lot of applications are not possible) and 3. (my favorite) The 2 mbit speed applies only to local sites, you are capped at 128kbit for international sites. The reliability also hasn't been great, with outages measured in the several hours. You would think that the entity which by law owns ALL international and local links (and overcharges ISPs HEAVILY for those links) would be able to give a decent internet service. But hey, TIT, and CAT is full of goverment officials.

The TOT has its own ADSL service, but it's comparable in speed/price to True. Reliability and coverage are NOT comparable and downright abyssmal.

I think all the new ADSL action in Thailand this year is just old goverment entities paying lip service to the ICT's demands for affordable ADSL. It looks good on paper (ie. all the glowing press releases), but in reality it's just a huge wreck. I'm not surprised, since this is the modus operandi Thai government.

Well written Firefoxx. I fell for the TSpeed offer and can confirm everything you said. Nowhere did they mention that international speeds and domestic speeds would be so dramatically different. Actually, they didn't even mention that you'd share the line with 50 users until I asked.

So what company or person is out there making billions of baht by overcharging ISP's? Why can Japan, South Korea and even countries like Australia, which has such a small potential market, offer such excellent speed and reliability for $40 or $50 a month? What the he#l has gone wrong here? Who and or what is holding Thailand back? You'd think Dear Leader would get in on the ADSL business, but it seems that all the government does is come up with fancy names and fantastic plans that amount to very little.

This isn't just a selfish farang talking. True high speed internet at reasonable prices could benefit Thailand in numerous ways. So who is preventing it?

[sking_is_leaving]

Hello all

I am moving to Thailand in a couple of months, and will be doing some work for my old employer. I will probably need to put in about 1 day per week, using my (client) laptop to query Oracle databases on a server in the UK.

I assume, therefore, that speed is the key. I also assume that disconnections or delays are less of an issue (although for all I know, delays may cause ODBC errors, I don't know too much about network performance issues - I just write BO reports).

Anyway, I've been reading this post and the Chiang Mai ADSL post and sounds like Bangkok is the safest option (shame, I'd had my heart set on Hua Hin or somewhere in the near south).

I've never worked remotely and don't know the relative pros and cons of broadband / satellite, particularly given my specific needs. Does anyone else out there do similar work and can advise me on performance issues?

Any help much, much appreciated.

[Guest chingy]

thailand fail badly compare to other country.

[Firefoxx]

Hello all

I am moving to Thailand in a couple of months, and will be doing some work for my old employer. I will probably need to put in about 1 day per week, using my (client) laptop to query Oracle databases on a server in the UK.

I assume, therefore, that speed is the key. I also assume that disconnections or delays are less of an issue (although for all I know, delays may cause ODBC errors, I don't know too much about network performance issues - I just write BO reports).

Anyway, I've been reading this post and the Chiang Mai ADSL post and sounds like Bangkok is the safest option (shame, I'd had my heart set on Hua Hin or somewhere in the near south).

I've never worked remotely and don't know the relative pros and cons of broadband / satellite, particularly given my specific needs. Does anyone else out there do similar work and can advise me on performance issues?

Any help much, much appreciated.

If you're not going to use the line other than for that 1 day per week and you need the speed, then you'd probably have to go with True's 1mbit plan. If you buy it with 40 hours of internet/month, then it's around 1,800 baht/month, giving you 4 days of 10 hours use. The speed is decent most of the time, and the coverage area is the best for Bangkok (which isn't saying much, since the only other provider is TOT). Otherwise, you can get 512k+VPN or 1024k+VPN for 24/7 use. I've tried VPN before, and it's pretty good, which is to be expected considering the price.

About CAT's monopoly on communications: One radio spot keeps saying that "We're the ONLY provider of overseas long-distance calls in Thailand". Well, DUH! By law nobody else can be a provider, so they use it as a marketing gimmic. Next thing you know the electric authority will be advertising "We're the ONLY provider of electricity in Thailand".

[sking_is_leaving]

Thanks for that. 1800 per month sounds fine. Is that 256k then? And do you think I would get similar speeds by satellite outside Bangkok?

[sking_is_leaving]

Sorry, ignore that first question. You said 1mg. That's great. Still, I would like to base myself outside Bangkok - willing to pay a few thousand baht per month if the speed is OK - maybe I'll try and find out a bit more about Phuket.

[bkk_mike]

TA (now True) does have 512k unlimited international ADSL for 2,400/month. However, there is a gotcha, and that is that it's for internet cafes in the "Goodnet" program. Yes, there are legal documents to sign, with tons of "you must do this" and "do this or else" regarding cafe conduct. If you call the sales people at True, they will say that it's OK, an individual can buy it, no problem, mai pen rai. But if things get ugly, they won't be there to help you out, since they already got their comission.

I personally, didn't sign anything - my wife did that because all the forms were in Thai...

However, I thought the only restrictions were the rules that applied to Internet cafe's. - i.e. Children aren't allowed to play net games after 10 at night (not an issue - they have to get up at 5:30 to get ready for school - so they're in bed by that time anyway).

I'm using the connection predominantly to connect to the company VPN in the UK, for which it seems ideal.

[camerata]

So what company or person is out there making billions of baht by overcharging ISP's? Why can Japan, South Korea and even countries like Australia, which has such a small potential market, offer such excellent speed and reliability for $40 or $50 a month? What the he#l has gone wrong here? Who and or what is holding Thailand back? You'd think Dear Leader would get in on the ADSL business, but it seems that all the government does is come up with fancy names and fantastic plans that amount to very little.

This isn't just a selfish farang talking. True high speed internet at reasonable prices could benefit Thailand in numerous ways. So who is preventing it?

Good question, but the answer is a bit complicated. The fundamental problem is the long-term monopolies and duopolies operating in Thailand. On the one hand there is CAT, which has a monopoly on overseas telecoms that by default makes it the regulator of the (ISP) business and apparently gives it the right to do ISP business in direct competition with the private sector. On the other hand, there is TOT, which shares its monopoly in voice-call business in Bangkok with True (a.k.a. TA) and upcountry with TT&T, and the state gets hefty concession fees from both.

CAT and TOT both operate like private fiefdoms, which is why two governments have been unable to privatize them.

CAT is in the worse position of the two. Its main revenue comes from overseas calls, and that's under attack from voice-over-IP. Both CAT and TOT are afraid of what will happen after telecoms liberalization in 2006, so CAT in particular doesn't want to give up ANYTHING.

The main cost for ISPs in Thailand is international bandwidth, and this is particularly true of broadband services. In Thailand, about 75% of traffic is international whereas in Japan and Korea it's only around 20%. That's because Japan and Korea have good local content and they aren't interested in English-language content overseas.

But the deal in Thailand is ISPs have to go through CAT to get their international bandwidth. They have to pay what's called a "half-circuit" charge to an international cable provider and another half-circuit charge to CAT. The cable operator provides the cable as far as Thailand, and CAT provides the cable from the landing point (usually Songkhla) to Bangkok, plus other local facilities. Yet CAT's charge for this is typically DOUBLE the cable operator's charge. Why doesn't CAT reduce this charge? Well, it would like all ISPs to use it's own "international gateway," which is cheaper. If it succeeds, it will control virtually everything (it already controls the only domestic gateway) ahead of 2006.

If you remember, TOT is allowed overseas communication only with Laos, Cambodia and Malaysia, so CAT went ballistic when TOT said they were going to buy their own int'l bandwidth from Malaysia. I think there was even talk of lawsuits. That's why TOT still gets its bandwidth via an ISP.

So along comes the government without a clue about the real costs of ADSL and announces we'll have 2Mbps for 500 baht a month, generating 1 million new users. Nice vote-getting scheme, if you can pull it off. But when the ICT Ministry approached the ISPs about how to achieve this, the unanimous response was to the effect: "Give us back the 35% of our shareholding that we had to give CAT free!" Needless to say, that was seen as a separate issue.

The upshot of all this is that the scheme was initially thrown to CAT and TOT. And since they aren't too friendly these days, CAT started off with TT&T upcountry. Presumably CAT can waive most of its own massive half-circuit charge, and yet they still can't provide the service for 500 baht. TOT is negotiating with ISPs, but I don't see how they can offer a low price unless they can get cheap overseas bandwidth.

You can see now why ISPs are offering creative packages with different speeds for domestic and international access. It isn't a scam - it's just the only way they can get the price down. And it's exactly the same as the schemes they use to sell leased line connections. Higher domestic speeds don't make much sense for foreigners needing international access, but it makes a lot of sense for local companies needing Internet contact with branch offices around the country.

[JJDinsay]

TA/True is the way to go. Have not had one issue yet - knock on wood. Only issues I ever had were the modem losing its settings and I had to redo it again. That's about it. Works on a TA line which is better than TOT and the bandwidth is pretty fast as well - averaging about 520/212 - not good consider when I have the 1024/512 package but its more than good enough.

Thailand does seem to be behind the times. Went to Vietnam recently and a buddy of mine was clocking pretty high, I think 400+/200. He was paying about $30 US per month too.

thanks

[camerata]

There is quite a long and detailed thread on the ADSL in Chiang Mai, with quite a few problems mentioned,...

Are there more service providers in Bangkok?

There are new offers popping up every day and I have difficulty making up my mind on whether I should switch to ADSL or not.

And the CM adsl thread did not help.

Are there people in Bangkok happy with the service?

And if yes, which one?

While I'm not a big fan of True/TA because it operates in quasi-monopoly mode most of the time, I think TA ADSL is the way to go. The main ADSL providers in Bangkok now are TA, SBS (Samart Broadband) and TOT. Each provider needs a telephone operator to piggy-back its network on (SBS has some kind of agreement with TOT) and an ISP. So you'll see each of these providers' ADSL offered by different ISPs in different flavors.

TA isn't an ISP, but for many of its services it uses AsiaNet ISP, which is part of the TA Group. In fact, they operate so closely that you never hear much about AsiaNet. Obviously, this gives TA/AsiaNet an advantage over ISPs dealing with a separate entity. When TA launched ADSL it did it exclusively with AsiaNet for about a year before making deals with other ISPs. This gave their own company a head's start and also enabled them to do plenty of testing before a wider launch.

Stay away from "unlimited" services for now, because these attract all the SMEs and heavy users, and are likely to be slow in office hours. Most of what I've heard about TA's "not-unlimited" services has been good, and I think this is because having a quota of X hours or X megabytes per month keeps away the heavy users. If you don't need the "always-on" experience, but you do need good speeds for an hour or two a day, this is probably the way to go. TA seems to be pretty professional too. SBS's quality is pretty good but TOT's is... what you'd expect from a state enterprise.

I don't know what the real story is with TT&T upcountry. I suspect they are new to ADSL technology, under pressure from CAT and the government, and short of investment funds.

[Firefoxx]

Re The 512k Unlimited Net Cafe deal: The owner of the line has to sign the papers. The papers say very clearly that you have to be a a net cafe in the "Goodnet" net cafe program, which means that you have to join the program first before getting this promotion. In order to join Goodnet, you have to follow and sign a lot of other agreements. The net cafe deal also requires that you put up posters of certain games in front of your cafe and installation of said games on computers, pending inspection by the company, among other things, failure to do so resulting in termination of service.

Wow, camerata, a guy who actually knows all the dirt behind the scenes. I'm truly impressed. I couldn't have said this stuff better (well, I didn't know about a lot of it... but even I didn't realize it was THIS sordid). I do know that the employees at CAT are paid pretty well... one person I know just retired and got a pension plan in excess of 10 million baht. And she wasn't even high management. A little more: when Thai ISPs were formed, it was required by law that CAT have a huge stake in their companies for FREE. Now, after being pressured to let go of the stakes, CAT is indeed letting go. But not for free. They're offering the stakes back to the ISPs for tens of millions of baht. I think only CSLox was able to afford that.

I know that ISPs aren't the main reason why broadband is expensive, but I also think that they're really doing a lot of misleading marketing for their creative packages. The Thai ads for TA have always said "5 times faster!" "Up to 8 mbits!" "online all the time! no cuts!" "all for 550 baht!". While the reality was that 1. 550 baht=local service=useless 2. you're cut every 24 hours and 3. There isn't any 8mbit service, period.

True just showed all of Bangkok today just how great a company it was, especially after going through all the trouble of changing its name. From noon of wednesday until midnight, most of True's ADSL users were left twiddling their thumbs while some glitch ate up the system. Call the call center and you'd get a busy signal. This is a repeat of the exact same event that occurred a couple of months ago, so you can expect a repeat performance at your inconvenience.

I don't really think that you should avoid unlimited deals. It's only true when the ISP doesn't have the bandwidth to take care of the load (ie. CAT, Qnet Meganet, Samart 2mbit, etc.). In the case of True, which offers both metered and unlimited (albeit only to companies and cafes) the levels of service in both are on the same level.

The only reason I'd recommend True is that it's the lesser of two evils, and there isn't much choice here. If there was any way I humanly could, I'd move to Japan and enjoy 45mbit ADSL for 1,000 baht/month.

Ugh, Thailand is slower than Vietnam? Well, just goes to show how the leaders of Thailand are letting everyone else and their dogs pass us by.

[bkk_mike]

True just showed all of Bangkok today just how great a company it was, especially after going through all the trouble of changing its name. From noon of wednesday until midnight, most of True's ADSL users were left twiddling their thumbs while some glitch ate up the system. Call the call center and you'd get a busy signal. This is a repeat of the exact same event that occurred a couple of months ago, so you can expect a repeat performance at your inconvenience.

I've been logged in since mid afternoon today with no issues at all... (with True ADSL)

Is it possible it's just an issue with one exchange/concentrator?

[Firefoxx]

Nope, not just one exchange concentrator, but rather nearly all of them. If you can read Thai, go to the web board at www.adslthailand.com. There were SOME people who didn't have any problems, but they were the exception, not the rule.

The call center was so badly pounded that True resorted to using a taped reply.

[Guest chingy]

The call center was so badly pounded that True resorted to using a taped reply.

are you kidding me, their services is awful, problaly only 2 people sitting there answering the phone

[camerata]

Wow, camerata, a guy who actually knows all the dirt behind the scenes.  I'm truly impressed.  I couldn't have said this stuff better (well, I didn't know about a lot of it... but even I didn't realize it was THIS sordid).

I think it only seems sordid if you look at it from a Western point of view. Thailand has a history and tradition of state monopolies that provide a basic service and outsource anything else for juicy concession fees. A good example is TOT's 1222 access number, the operation of which was outsourced to Hatari - a Thai company doing phonecard business! And people wonder why it doesn't work well. If you look at CAT's free share of ISPs as a concession fee, it all makes perfect sense. The shares allocated to CAT staff does seem a bit tacky, though.

A little more: when Thai ISPs were formed, it was required by law that CAT have a huge stake in their companies for FREE.  Now, after being pressured to let go of the stakes, CAT is indeed letting go.  But not for free.  They're offering the stakes back to the ISPs for tens of millions of baht.  I think only CSLox was able to afford that.

Well, as usual the facts are a lot more interesting than the myths. There wasn't any law that required CAT to take free stakes in ISPs but for the most part they did it anyway, because as default regulator they could do whatever they wanted. The first ISP was Internet Thailand, which was a joint venture initiated by NSTDA with TOT and CAT, all of whom paid up their share capital. This is a matter of public record. Then up popped KSC and, according to a CATperson quoted in the Bangkok Post, effectively made them an offer they couldn't refuse. So CAT decided to use this model for all the other ISPs. The only thing different about the ISP licenses is the validity. The shortest ones will be expiring next year. That's why a couple of ISPs will be sweating bullets if the NCC isn't formed and empowered to renew licenses this year.

I know that ISPs aren't the main reason why broadband is expensive, but I also think that they're really doing a lot of misleading marketing for their creative packages.  The Thai ads for TA have always said "5 times faster!" "Up to 8 mbits!" "online all the time! no cuts!" "all for 550 baht!".  While the reality was that 1. 550 baht=local service=useless 2. you're cut every 24 hours  and 3. There isn't any 8mbit service, period.

I agree. The first ADSL providers - Lenso and UBT - used to advertise "10Mbps - always on!". Yeah, right! I think the cutting every 24 hours may be so that the ISP can get accounting information and statistics from the Radius Stop record.

I don't really think that you should avoid unlimited deals.  It's only true when the ISP doesn't have the bandwidth to take care of the load (ie. CAT, Qnet Meganet, Samart 2mbit, etc.).  In the case of True, which offers both metered and unlimited (albeit only to companies and cafes) the levels of service in both are on the same level.

Well, it depends what you mean by "doesn't have the bandwidth." ISPs have to do a costing exercise to establish how many users they allow on per Mb of bandwidth to break even. That number determines their contention ratio. Suppose their contention ratio is 20:1 and they break even with 12 users, that's fine unless the users have unusually heavy traffic. Then they get congestion before they reach 20:1, which is when their costing model allows them to upgrade bandwidth. This tends to happen with unlimited ADSL in Thailand. If it doesn't happen with True, it's probably because they are not applying the contention ratio yet (i.e. losing money by having excess idle bandwidth) so that they can build a good reputation and gain market share. If that's what they are doing, it's working. But I think the day will come when they really apply some realistic contention ratio.

[Firefoxx]

Thailand has lots of nice traditions, but also has too many bad traditions. Tea money, cronieism, nespotism, bribery, contract killing, etc. etc. Most of these traditions mean that a select few will get really rich, and that the rest will have to live with the consequences.

Ah, so that's why 1222 is so horrible. Thank god I never used it.

Wow, you sure do know a lot about this subject. The version I wrote of course is the one that most people believe, but your version sounds a lot more believeable. I would love it if you could give all the dirt on the ISP situation in Thailand, you seem to know what has happened and how they connect. About ISP licenses, isn't it true that only the current ISPs are allowed to operate, with no new ISPs allowed?

Cutting every 24 hours... actually TA used to cut every 12 hours when they first came out with ADSL service. The argument of getting accounting data from RADIUS servers would be valid, except that the 24 hour cut applies to all services, including unlimited local/inter connections. And wouldn't just cutting at the end of the billing month be enough?

I know about contention ratios, but have no idea about costing models, so I can't comment more on this... heh. I remember, at about 1997, the standard rate for 64kbit leased line (for the internet charge, the line charge was extra) was around 60k/month, usually requiring a one year contract. Man, those were the days.

[camerata]

I would love it if you could give all the dirt on the ISP situation in Thailand, you seem to know what has happened and how they connect.

Well, it's a pretty pathetic story - an industry that has never been profitable, has no leverage at all, has no representative organization (other than a fractious "ISP Club") and is controlled by a regulator that competes with it for business. And everyone knows that ultimately it's a "winner takes all" game, that in the end there will be something like a Thai AOL dominating the market.

About ISP licenses, isn't it true that only the current ISPs are allowed to operate, with no new ISPs allowed?

Since the process to form a National Communications Commission began, CAT lost its "right" to issue or renew ISP licenses. But any company can buy out one of the rinky-dink little ISPs that exist on the edge of bankrupcy. The license stays with the company. Pacific Internet did this, and Cable & Wireless, and ArcCyber, I believe. It didn't do them much good, though. ArcCyber already went belly-up.

Cutting every 24 hours... actually TA used to cut every 12 hours when they first came out with ADSL service.  The argument of getting accounting data from RADIUS servers would be valid, except that the 24 hour cut applies to all services, including unlimited local/inter connections.  And wouldn't just cutting at the end of the billing month be enough?

Well, a lot can happen in a month. I don't think here's anything strange about having a session limit for pay-per-use services. For unlimited broadband services, each connection takes up a port - perhaps they are worried some users might use a port indefintely. Since ADSL is always a "shared bandwidth" model, perhaps they don't like users hogging a port for themselves.

[bkk_mike]

ArcCyber already went belly-up.

Cutting every 24 hours... actually TA used to cut every 12 hours when they first came out with ADSL service.  The argument of getting accounting data from RADIUS servers would be valid, except that the 24 hour cut applies to all services, including unlimited local/inter connections.  And wouldn't just cutting at the end of the billing month be enough?

Well, a lot can happen in a month. I don't think here's anything strange about having a session limit for pay-per-use services. For unlimited broadband services, each connection takes up a port - perhaps they are worried some users might use a port indefintely. Since ADSL is always a "shared bandwidth" model, perhaps they don't like users hogging a port for themselves.

I thought ArcCyber merged with CS Internet, just before CS and Loxinfo merged. Or was that a merger in the "we'll take over your debts if you also let us take over your customers" mould?

As for the 24 hour dropping of ports. Have you noticed that you never get the same IP address back?

It almost looks like they're cycling IPs just to prevent people running websites on ADSL service where it's not been sold with a fixed IP address (at significantly higher cost).

[camerata]

I thought ArcCyber merged with CS Internet, just before CS and Loxinfo merged. Or was that a merger in the "we'll take over your debts if you also let us take over your customers" mould?

I don't recall exactly how it happened but I'm sure CS would have been happy to take on the ArcCyber customers when it closed.

As for the 24 hour dropping of ports. Have you noticed that you never get the same IP address back?

It almost looks like they're cycling IPs just to prevent people running websites on ADSL service where it's not been sold with a fixed IP address (at significantly higher cost).

With services that offer dynamic IP, I doubt you'd get the same IP immediately after logging in again. I'm pretty sure that cycling IPs is the default method of allocation for dynamic IP. I agree if TA cuts the session after 12 or 24 hours, it's probably to prevent users having a service that is too similar to leased line service. Leased line service for corporates makes up about 80% of the access revenue for big ISPs, so they are not going to endanger their most profitable services with cheap ADSL that has a "de facto" fixed IP.

With fixed IP, even though the user may log in and authenticate via Radius, idle-timeout and session timeout attributes don't work. To cut a session, either the user logs off or the ADSL carrier has to cut the connection.

One interesting point about IP numbers is that they are in short supply in the Asia-Pacific region. The CEO of one ISP once suggested that they should be treated as a "national resource," meaning that after telecom liberalization in 2006 if foreign ISPs took over Thailand's ISP business, Thailand would lose a national resource.