Mass Transit

[bttao]

I was watching a video how to use  BKK mass transit system ; and among things mentioned : people over 60 years get 50% discount... but you have to get your ticket at a window not a machine...

Does that apply to expats as well (the 50% discount)? and RR/1st class?

 

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by bttao

[BritTim]

There are multiple mass transit systems in Bangkok. The two important ones are the BTS and MRT. On the MRT, expats can, indeed, get the 50% discount. Sadly, expats are not eligible for the senior discount on the BTS.

[westsail]

If you buy a senior card for the MRT at the window you can add money to it using the machines, so you don't have to go to the window each time.

[Bangkok Barry]

Correct. BTS operates a racist Thai-only policy, while the MRT applies the discount to all humans regardless of place of birth.

[JackThompson]

6 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Correct. BTS operates a racist Thai-only policy, while the MRT applies the discount to all humans regardless of place of birth.

Racism and recognition of Citizenship are not the same thing.  MRT and BTS operate as public/private partnerships, operated under a mandate to benefit Thai citizens and businesses - i.e. "what national-governments are supposed to do."

 

I am glad they believe that allowing foreigners to use them at standard-rates supports that mission, and not surprised that discounts for retired citizens are not universally applicable to non-citizens.

[Bangkok Barry]

1 minute ago, JackThompson said:

Racism and recognition of Citizenship are not the same thing.  MRT and BTS operate as public/private partnerships, operated under a mandate to benefit Thai citizens and businesses - i.e. "what national-governments are supposed to do."

 

I am glad they believe that allowing foreigners to use them at standard-rates supports that mission, and not surprised that discounts for retired citizens are not universally applicable to non-citizens.

So what difference is there between the MRT setup and that of the BTS? What makes one offer the discount and not the other? But the bottom line is that if you gladly accept charging based on race or citizenship then you've been in Thailand too long. I originate from London, where such a policy would not only be outlawed but unthinkable.

[timendres]

59 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

So what difference is there between the MRT setup and that of the BTS? What makes one offer the discount and not the other? But the bottom line is that if you gladly accept charging based on race or citizenship then you've been in Thailand too long. I originate from London, where such a policy would not only be outlawed but unthinkable.

Here we go again with the racism card.

 

I am from the US, which one could agree is almost as PC as England. We have many such policies that, on the surface, might appear discriminatory, but are in fact based on sound reasoning. For example, many State benefits can only be enjoyed by those who pay income tax or property tax in that State. And that makes total sense. As the previous poster pointed out, the BTS is government subsidized, and as such it may (I am not informed enough to speak to the subject) be employing a reasonable policy.

[ignis]

had no idea about the discount on the MRT, will try it next week as it is a pain driving the 55 km each way........ as the Purple Line is also called MRT = ? going to Red Cross Hospital and back should cost halve price ? Purple Line + Metro

 

What do you do show your Passport or Drivers Licence to get the Discount ?  [late 60's] 

 

Have been driving there, as takes the same time and cost much less by car, just have to inform the day before security to reserve parking [Blue Badge Holder]. 

[Rimmer]

Moved to General Forum

[tonray]

43 minutes ago, ignis said:

had no idea about the discount on the MRT, will try it next week as it is a pain driving the 55 km each way........ as the Purple Line is also called MRT = ? going to Red Cross Hospital and back should cost halve price ? Purple Line + Metro

 

What do you do show your Passport or Drivers Licence to get the Discount ?  [late 60's] 

 

Have been driving there, as takes the same time and cost much less by car, just have to inform the day before security to reserve parking [Blue Badge Holder]. 

They may not even ask for proof...but passport or DL will work equally well. I am very looking forward to getting the new fares next July when I hit 60...in fact it is a major consideration into possible relocation to a nice area near the north end of the purple Line for me with the great ability to get into downtown BKK at low cost whenever I want. 

[Thaidream]

I use the MRT all the time- no ID required- simply tell them Senior or your age and they will give you the 50% discount with a smile. Well run organization.

 

The BTS does not give it to foreigners and it has nothing to do with government assistance etc. The BTS is interested in profit and nothing else. They have been ordered for years by the government to provide lifts that work for the elderly and disabled as well as escalators at all stations. They have ignored the order.  In addition- they should have put in place many more trains to avoid the current congestion. Again, delay and obfuscation- they could care less about the elderly and the disabled.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

So what difference is there between the MRT setup and that of the BTS? What makes one offer the discount and not the other? But the bottom line is that if you gladly accept charging based on race or citizenship then you've been in Thailand too long. I originate from London, where such a policy would not only be outlawed but unthinkable.

I am not under the impression that the govt of the UK, or my country (USA), or of the city of London, is in any way concerned with prioritizing their own citizens' interests over non-citizens.  Hopefully that will change, so that we have a place we can call "our home" again - as do most other people on the planet.

 

But I definitely do not believe in charging different rates based on "race" - a pseudo-scientific fiction, invented by a discredited scientific branch known as "eugenics."  Note that definitions of "race" have varied over time (ask your favorite Irish person about this), to suit the political aims of the day.

Culture (taught, mostly during childhood) and Nationality (alliance for defense of a culture, or set of cultures), is another question, entirely.  One can make both objective observations and subjective conclusions regarding cultures and nations - valuing one above another - preferring one or the other as one's neighbors and fellow countrymen.  Wise people /nations would choose carefully, given the consequences which are clear throughout world-history. 

 

The tragic combining of incompatible cultures within common national-boundaries, often to "divide and conquer" for imperial aims - carried out en-masse at the end of the first world-war (see Syria, Iraq, etc) - should not be used to discredit the practical goal of allowing national-boundaries to function for cultural self-defense and preservation. 

 

By contrast, it is impossible to draw conclusions about a person's thinking / behavior / values / beliefs, based on their (arbitrary) "race" classification.  This is why - whether being pushed from the right or left perspective - a belief in "race" is both anti-scientific and socially-toxic - dividing people who share a common-culture, who would otherwise cooperate to protect it from destruction.

 

Therefore, we should not allow the tragic history of arbitrary "race" ideas - often pushed to prevent working-factions from different ethnic-backgrounds from uniting for their common interests - be used to justify continuing toxic race-based thinking, in a misguided attempt to reverse past wrongs.

 

----------

A bit of background on the formation of recent concepts of 'race':  The "eugenics" pseudo-science was funded by an evil clan of elite families - primarily in England and later the USA.  For decades, it was treated as main-line science - taught at universities (funded by the the same actors), etc.  This theory was later exported (funded via foundations) into 1930s Germany, simultaneous with Wall Street funding of it's industrial boom (while capital-striking their own countrymen).  A very "mainstream" version of this history is here:

http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/1796

Categorizing humans by race can never serve a "good" purpose - a lesson which I hope will be realized by all, before more damage is done to Nations and Cultures under the false-banner of "anti-racism." 

 

Also note, many of the "anti-nationalist," so-called "pro-democracy" and "pro-migration" organizations operating today, including the UN, were/are funded by the same parent-organizations which promulgated eugenics.  Those organizations were never dismantled, and their leaders were never held to account for their crimes (except, to some extent, but not completely, in Germany).  The only change they made, was in the ideological-appeals and stated-goals they present to the public, which are rarely if ever congruent with their actual goals, as revealed by the cultural-wreckage and wars they leave in their wake.

Edited December 19, 2017 by JackThompson

[smutcakes]

28 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I use the MRT all the time- no ID required- simply tell them Senior or your age and they will give you the 50% discount with a smile. Well run organization.

 

The BTS does not give it to foreigners and it has nothing to do with government assistance etc. The BTS is interested in profit and nothing else. They have been ordered for years by the government to provide lifts that work for the elderly and disabled as well as escalators at all stations. They have ignored the order.  In addition- they should have put in place many more trains to avoid the current congestion. Again, delay and obfuscation- they could care less about the elderly and the disabled.

1) Which BTS stations do not have escalators and lifts?

2) I take trains in rush hour from Siam and Ploenchit at peak morning and evening everyday. It is a very rare occurrence, possibly 1 time per month that i cannot get on the first train that arrives. Which city are you from where there is no overcrowding on the mass transport system? You ever tried getting on the MRT at Sukhmuvit at 5.30pm?  Everyone would like a train each, but we dont live in fantasy land.

3) You whinge every time a topic on the bts comes up. Were you not the guy who claimed to have lived in BKK for over 50 years but could not find their way from Chidlom to Wireless road and started complaining about lack of traffic signs etc etc etc

[Spock]

I was asked if I was over 60 getting change at a booth then told I could travel half price. Never had a problem again - never required to produce proof. I'd almost prefer if I was asked for age ID!

[Grumpy Duck]

11 hours ago, BritTim said:

There are multiple mass transit systems in Bangkok. The two important ones are the BTS and MRT. On the MRT, expats can, indeed, get the 50% discount. Sadly, expats are not eligible for the senior discount on the BTS.

I agree however I understood the age was 65 not 60. I have a seniors card for MRT but BTS told me Thai only not foreigner. I have not been able to find anything on the Thai Rail System the website is too confusing

[Bangkok Barry]

3 hours ago, timendres said:

Here we go again with the racism card.

 

I am from the US, which one could agree is almost as PC as England. We have many such policies that, on the surface, might appear discriminatory, but are in fact based on sound reasoning. For example, many State benefits can only be enjoyed by those who pay income tax or property tax in that State. And that makes total sense. As the previous poster pointed out, the BTS is government subsidized, and as such it may (I am not informed enough to speak to the subject) be employing a reasonable policy.

What you say is nonsense. In the UK many city transport systems are at least partly supported by local or national government. Not one of them operates a one price for locals, another price for foreigners/non-city residents policy. Not one.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

I use the MRT all the time- no ID required- simply tell them Senior or your age and they will give you the 50% discount with a smile. Well run organization.

 

The BTS does not give it to foreigners and it has nothing to do with government assistance etc. The BTS is interested in profit and nothing else. They have been ordered for years by the government to provide lifts that work for the elderly and disabled as well as escalators at all stations. They have ignored the order.  In addition- they should have put in place many more trains to avoid the current congestion. Again, delay and obfuscation- they could care less about the elderly and the disabled.

Agreed. The BTS is an organisation that cares more about profit than its passengers. They should have added another car years ago. Can't say what I really think about this shoddy company on here.

[HerbalEd]

5 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

So what difference is there between the MRT setup and that of the BTS? What makes one offer the discount and not the other? But the bottom line is that if you gladly accept charging based on race or citizenship then you've been in Thailand too long. I originate from London, where such a policy would not only be outlawed but unthinkable.

This is Thailand and London is England. Who says they both should be the same?

[cnx355]

4 hours ago, timendres said:

Here we go again with the racism card.

 

I am from the US, which one could agree is almost as PC as England. We have many such policies that, on the surface, might appear discriminatory, but are in fact based on sound reasoning. For example, many State benefits can only be enjoyed by those who pay income tax or property tax in that State. And that makes total sense. As the previous poster pointed out, the BTS is government subsidized, and as such it may (I am not informed enough to speak to the subject) be employing a reasonable policy.

Probably most expats pay more taxes with the VAT than many Thai citizen.... that are on minimum wages.

[JackThompson]

23 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

What you say is nonsense. In the UK many city transport systems are at least partly supported by local or national government. Not one of them operates a one price for locals, another price for foreigners/non-city residents policy. Not one.

You could make a very reasonable argument for providing the discount for all in the age-bracket - in Thailand's case, to be friendly to foreign-retirees who are spending foreign-sourced capital into the Thai economy.  A bit of good-PR with discount fares would be a net-plus, in my book. 

 

But the policy/attitude seems to be, "You should be wealthy enough not to care about public-transport fare-discounts," or they generally don't want you here.  I think this outlook towards expats (of all ages) is a mistake, and reduces moderate foreign-sourced incomes, which could benefit many more Thai businesses and families.

[khunken]

4 hours ago, timendres said:

Here we go again with the racism card.

 

I am from the US, which one could agree is almost as PC as England. We have many such policies that, on the surface, might appear discriminatory, but are in fact based on sound reasoning. For example, many State benefits can only be enjoyed by those who pay income tax or property tax in that State. And that makes total sense. As the previous poster pointed out, the BTS is government subsidized, and as such it may (I am not informed enough to speak to the subject) be employing a reasonable policy.

If you're not informed enough to speak on the subject why post irrelevant & incorrect information?

 

It is indeed discriminatory when one system allows senior expat discounts & the other one doesn't. The BTS is not government subsidised but run by a private company with which the BMTA has a fare-sharing agreement for one section of the system (On Nut to Bearing). The MRT on the other hand is an indirectly government-owned system and it is this one that provides the discounts.

 

So it's nothing to do with 'sound reasoning' but a profit-grabbing BTS that, as a poster already mentioned, has had to be ordered by a court to provide escalators on most of the stations which lacked them - and which was part of their original operating licence.

[JackThompson]

9 minutes ago, khunken said:

a profit-grabbing BTS that, as a poster already mentioned, has had to be ordered by a court to provide escalators on most of the stations which lacked them - and which was part of their original operating licence.

There is always difficulty with enforcement of public/private partnerships like this.  However you break down the funding subsidized or not, etc - the govt provided the ability for the BTS system in exchange for certain conditions to be met. 

 

The elevators were all under repair when I was last there - and escalators working  in the "up" direction only, from a minimal number of points-of-entry.  Those are not much good if you have to go up/over a crosswalk to get to one.  There may be cause to collect a penalty under terms of the contract for this.

 

But if their contract did not mandate discounted fares for older non-citizens, I don't see why they should be somehow obliged to alter the contract without compensation.

[timendres]

15 minutes ago, khunken said:

If you're not informed enough to speak on the subject why post irrelevant & incorrect information?

 

It is indeed discriminatory when one system allows senior expat discounts & the other one doesn't. The BTS is not government subsidised but run by a private company with which the BMTA has a fare-sharing agreement for one section of the system (On Nut to Bearing). The MRT on the other hand is an indirectly government-owned system and it is this one that provides the discounts.

 

So it's nothing to do with 'sound reasoning' but a profit-grabbing BTS that, as a poster already mentioned, has had to be ordered by a court to provide escalators on most of the stations which lacked them - and which was part of their original operating licence.

Fair enough. You will note my italicized "may" qualifier, admitting my lack of direct knowledge regarding the BTS and it's policies. However, the gist of my post was referring to the things that I do know of in the States. Policies are not always "racist" in their origin just because they deal with foreigners versus locals.

[timendres]

1 hour ago, Bangkok Barry said:

What you say is nonsense. In the UK many city transport systems are at least partly supported by local or national government. Not one of them operates a one price for locals, another price for foreigners/non-city residents policy. Not one.

Since I was referring to specific instances in the US, and not once mentioned the UK, it is not nonsense. Each country has it's own policies, and to state that those policies are "racist" in nature when they are not, that is nonsense.

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, Spock said:

I'd almost prefer if I was asked for age ID!

Indeed, having those cute ticket office staff accept without question that you are an old codger is not exactly flattering.

[Bangkok Barry]

41 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

You could make a very reasonable argument for providing the discount for all in the age-bracket - in Thailand's case, to be friendly to foreign-retirees who are spending foreign-sourced capital into the Thai economy.  A bit of good-PR with discount fares would be a net-plus, in my book. 

 

But the policy/attitude seems to be, "You should be wealthy enough not to care about public-transport fare-discounts," or they generally don't want you here.  I think this outlook towards expats (of all ages) is a mistake, and reduces moderate foreign-sourced incomes, which could benefit many more Thai businesses and families.

It also discriminates against those foreigners who work here, pay far more taxes than Thais and also provide employment within their companies for Thais. It is short-sighted and based purely on someone not being Thai. Plain and simple, really.

[khunken]

42 minutes ago, khunken said:

If you're not informed enough to speak on the subject why post irrelevant & incorrect information?

 

It is indeed discriminatory when one system allows senior expat discounts & the other one doesn't. The BTS is not government subsidised but run by a private company with which the BMTA has a fare-sharing agreement for one section of the system (On Nut to Bearing). The MRT on the other hand is an indirectly government-owned system and it is this one that provides the discounts.

 

So it's nothing to do with 'sound reasoning' but a profit-grabbing BTS that, as a poster already mentioned, has had to be ordered by a court to provide escalators on most of the stations which lacked them - and which was part of their original operating licence.

A slight correction to my post above. It's the BMA, not the BMTA who run the buses, that has the fare-sharing agreement with the BTS.

[Thaidream]

The Phaya Thai station on the BTS does not have escalators on either side of the station up to the track and even Pom Prong is missing escalators on one side. Most stations have an escalator from the street to the first platform but not all have escalators up to the train track.

The reason for this is simply because the operator refuses to spend any money on improvements because they know customers must have the transportation  and they don't care about customers.

If some posters want to believe the BTS is not overcrowded they may want to get out of their own neighborhood and use the BTS from 400PM to 900PM. Most people are lined 5-6 deep waiting for a train.

To the poster who criticized me for 'whinging' I don't whinge- I tell it like I see it-  and I can assure you I know where Chidlom and Wireless Road is.  I've been there hundreds of times. Wireless Road is the English name- The actual Road is Withaya Road. I will continue to give my opinion as this is an open forum- if you don't want to hear it- don't read it.

[JackThompson]

I'll take the Thai version of "crowded trains" over the Tokyo version:

 

[Bangkok Barry]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

The Phaya Thai station on the BTS does not have escalators on either side of the station up to the track and even Pom Prong is missing escalators on one side. Most stations have an escalator from the street to the first platform but not all have escalators up to the train track.

The reason for this is simply because the operator refuses to spend any money on improvements because they know customers must have the transportation  and they don't care about customers.

If some posters want to believe the BTS is not overcrowded they may want to get out of their own neighborhood and use the BTS from 400PM to 900PM. Most people are lined 5-6 deep waiting for a train.

To the poster who criticized me for 'whinging' I don't whinge- I tell it like I see it-  and I can assure you I know where Chidlom and Wireless Road is.  I've been there hundreds of times. Wireless Road is the English name- The actual Road is Withaya Road. I will continue to give my opinion as this is an open forum- if you don't want to hear it- don't read it.

Even a major station like Asok only has an escalator from the street on one (south) side. That is quite incredible. Or maybe there is one but I've never found it in dozens of attempts.

The overcrowding also applies in the morning when I've had to let three or four trains go by. The platforms have been built to use far more coaches but the company has no interest in buying them. London, New York and Bangkok have approximately the same populations - London usually has eight coaches, NY 12. Bangkok? Four. Pathetic.