UAE man arrested for allegedly raping American woman

[Jingthing]

I don't know about the technical details of Thai rape law, but I think in most countries it would be harder to convict a rape case in these kinds of circumstances. That doesn't reflect so much on whether this particular rape happened or not. Just a practical and often cultural reality. 

[beavercreek]

Not a scratch on either?  Next.

[smedly]

44 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Directly a woman agrees to be alone with a man, that's consent, and that's sensible.

My Thai wife understands that, my 19 year old daughter understands that.

 

What you are arguing about is the right to change her mind, which is an entirely different matter, and in America they are allowed to change their mind 30 years after the event. In Thailand, and most of Asia, not so much leeway is given.

 

Do you believe a deal is final when you agree and shake hands?

Or when the 14 day 'cooling off' period is past?

What on earth are you going on about ????????, there is "NO ARGUMENT", she has the right to decide at any time "no exceptions", "NO" means "NO"

 

go argue with yourself

[reallybigken]

The issue is she put herself in a bad place. Being intoxicated is not an excuse. I'm not defending him ether. NO means NO.

 

These situation can be very traumatizing. I had a girlfriend that was raped (not by me), and unfortunately she couldn't handle a relationship after that. She is still not married, and that was 30 years ago.  We have still remained friends all these years.

 

The problem is, it is her word against his. There needs to be other evidence to prove her point. In the USA this case would be dropped, unfortunately, unless she could prove he forced her.

 

I tell my niece all the time, don't put herself into these kinds of situation.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2018 by reallybigken
Typo

[MaeJoMTB]

5 minutes ago, reallybigken said:

These situation can be very traumatizing. I had a girlfriend that was raped (not by me), and unfortunately she couldn't handle a relationship after that. She is still not married, and that was 30 years ago.  We have still remained friends all these years.

Claims to have been raped, I think you mean.

I always ask, "How long did the guy spend in jail?", before walking away.

Edited January 20, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[reallybigken]

1 minute ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Claims to have been raped, I think you mean.

I always ask, "How long did the guy spend in jail?", before walking away.

No, in her case they had evidence. He was convicted. Even with the evidence it was still difficult to convict. We had broken up months before, but I was still there to support her through the whole process. I'm not going into the details here. The whole process made it even more traumatizing for her. 

[fasteddie]

6 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Yes, it is stupid. No one says otherwise. However, this does not  justify, nor excuse a physical assault. 

 

No one asks to be raped. I question the motives of any man who  would say "she asked for it". Sadly, the language used is the  classic language of people who engage in such activity.  It is not acceptable, nor is it legal.

 

If the  fellow forced himself on her after she  said no, it meets the test. She may have gone there because her judgement was clouded by alcohol and he gave the impression he was a moral trustworthy person. Whatever the reason, the victim is not the one who has done wrong.

 

And here's a sad reality of why some women will say no and try and get away; They get to the bedroom and sober up. Or, they are in the bedroom and pick up a bad vibe. You know things like bondage gear or underwear on the floor with a big streak of feces on the backside.

Or, the woman sees the man's naked body and is disgusted because the man has  genital warts or an outbreak of herpes or chancres or has the skin discolouration indicative of pubic lice.  I defy any man here to explain why she would be compelled to have  sexual relations with such a man. If you saw a woman had  oozing sores around her vagina, sores that gave off a pungent choking stench, would you still have intercourse with such a woman? Why then would a woman be expected to do so with a man  with that condition?

 

" Yes, it is stupid. No one says otherwise. However, this does not  justify, nor excuse a physical assault.".....and did I say it did?

[NanLaew]

7 hours ago, giddyup said:

I saw them on the Thai news this morning without her face being blurred, there's no way she's 28, I think 48 would be generous. She was talking to the Arab as though they were deciding what to have for breakfast, no hysterics or hostility.

Just goes to show thaat you don't have to be a hot, young thing to be raped. But you knew this already.

 

7 hours ago, tonibuergisser said:

Is it rape? Difficult to prove for her. Going with an Arab to his room late at night. Why did she go there?


Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

One doesn't have to be too much of a mental giant to work out that she didn't go there to be raped. But you knew this already.

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Directly a woman agrees to be alone with a man, that's consent, and that's sensible.

My Thai wife understands that, my 19 year old daughter understands that.

That is so wrong. There's a reason why there's a growing trend for female-only public transport. I bet the average Indian male would love to have you ride the bus with them and watch them 'in action'. The single girl getting in the elevator that already has a guy inside is "agreeing to be alone with a man = consent?" Really?

 

I think your wife and daughter tell you what you want to hear.

[volsfan]

One thing is for certain. She is lucky it was Thailand and not the UAE. There she would be charged with Adultery and tossed in the slam. He would get a small fine and walk. 

[kurtmartens]

16 minutes ago, volsfan said:

One thing is for certain. She is lucky it was Thailand and not the UAE. There she would be charged with Adultery and tossed in the slam. He would get a small fine and walk. 

I was just about to type the same thing.  From living in the UAE myself, I actually saw this happen to a friend's sister-in-law.  She was raped by 2 Emiraties and she was the one charged adultery and had to leave her job and life in the UAE and return to the UK.  The two Emiraties had no criminal or civil case brought against them.  Sadly it proved to alot of us living in the UAE that we are really 2nd or 3rd class citizens there - at least in Thailand expats have basic rights.

[MaeJoMTB]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

That is so wrong. There's a reason why there's a growing trend for female-only public transport. I bet the average Indian male would love to have you ride the bus with them and watch them 'in action'. The single girl getting in the elevator that already has a guy inside is "agreeing to be alone with a man = consent?" Really?

 

I think your wife and daughter tell you what you want to hear.

 

Strangely enough, the lift and public transport are something they consider, and they wouldn't get in/on with only the male driver.

In the UAE the women wouldn't be allowed out of their home without a servant or male family member along with them.

Which is why the UAE charge women who are raped, they had to work to get themselves alone with a man.

 

Anyway, I don't really care, I'm with the Thais on this, not my family, not my friend, not my countrymen ..... who cares.

Edited January 20, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[smedly]

1 hour ago, kurtmartens said:

I was just about to type the same thing.  From living in the UAE myself, I actually saw this happen to a friend's sister-in-law.  She was raped by 2 Emiraties and she was the one charged adultery and had to leave her job and life in the UAE and return to the UK.  The two Emiraties had no criminal or civil case brought against them.  Sadly it proved to alot of us living in the UAE that we are really 2nd or 3rd class citizens there - at least in Thailand expats have basic rights.

there are many countries/cultures round the world were women are treated like slaves and owned, there are many conflicts around the world were certain religions are fighting to maintain female ownership, they treat dogs better, it is perpetuated by the writings of some ancient pedophile that they all follow, I often find it hard to believe that there are humans living today that have not socially evolved beyond a neanderthal intellect, maybe it is a genetic defect

[chama]

21 hours ago, fasteddie said:

So she's walking about in the middle of the night and accepts an invitation from a complete stranger to go back to his room, well I'm sorry but that's just plain stupid.

Agreed, there is only one reason she could have been invited back to his room. Anything else would have been an invitation to the police station or other location to arrange travel back home.

[Jingthing]

So in your world going back to someone's room leaves no option for aborting a sex session? That's wrong.

 

Put yourself into the shoes of rape victims and imagine some of the many reasons you might wish to change your mind even in a room. It's not that hard.

 

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

[MaeJoMTB]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

So in your world going back to someone's room leaves no option for aborting a sex session? That's wrong.

If I take a 28 year old woman back to my hotel room, it means the price has already been agreed.

What do you take men back to your room for?

[smedly]

10 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

If I take a 28 year old woman back to my hotel room, it means the price has already been agreed.

What do you take men back to your room for?

you don't take anyone anywhere 

 

after reading your very worrying contributions to this thread I just hope that your wife and daughter have a good understanding of what they are dealing with, IMO you are a very troubled person

[Jingthing]

Seems doubtful she's a prostitute but prostitutes have the right to decline sex too in a room too.

 

 

Next...

 

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[PMZ]

9 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Directly a woman agrees to be alone with a man, that's consent, and that's sensible.

My Thai wife understands that, my 19 year old daughter understands that.

What a mindless thing to say!

Going to a guys room does not, in any circumstances, mean consent! Being alone with a guy is not consent!

You appear to have a very strange and troubled view of the world, according to the bizarre statements you have contributed so far in this.

[isaanbanhou]

3 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

If I take a 28 year old woman back to my hotel room, it means the price has already been agreed.

What do you take men back to your room for?

Your wife and  19 year old daughter must be so proud of you and as you have stated that they know that consent is implied if they are alone with a man, they must certainly have been "trained" well.

 

In your world women are whores or sluts, men can rape with impunity.  I hope  your daughter is never alone with you.

 

As to suggesting the poster takes men back to his room,  I interpret this to mean that if a man is not a rapist he must be gay.    Very, very sad.

Edited January 20, 2018 by isaanbanhou

[jacko45k]

Well as he is a UAE citizen and Muslim I expect they got married before they had this consensual sex?

 

As we often hear, No means No, right up to the act itself. Silly woman getting her self into such a position and going to his hotel room, although heaven knows what he told her, or whether she had a change of heart.

[D3030]

On 1/20/2018 at 4:54 AM, cornishcarlos said:

Another assumption might be that he didn't want to pay the asking price !!

So instead of calling in the motorbike mafia to sort it out, as a local might do, she went to report him to the police ??

Again, that could be assumed but probably far from the truth...

Very possible, but the guy should have mentioned it to the police.

[D3030]

On 1/20/2018 at 4:54 AM, cornishcarlos said:

Another assumption might be that he didn't want to pay the asking price !!

So instead of calling in the motorbike mafia to sort it out, as a local might do, she went to report him to the police ??

 

Edited January 21, 2018 by D3030
Posted twice.. How do you delete?

[Curmudgeon1]

On 2018-01-19 at 11:46 AM, Jingthing said:

If that's what happened, then, yes, that's a risky move, but sorry, if she got to the room and then decided she didn't want to have sex in the room and he still forced sex, that is STILL rape. There are thousands of reasons she might have decided to say no, and frankly, she doesn't even need to have a good reason. NO should be enough. 

NO brains

[worgeordie]

On  Sky News this morning they were on about how 12 men

had charges against them for rape dropped in last few weeks,because

they found out that the women were not telling the truth, and

now there's an app, keep it on your phone,and before you engage

in sex with a stranger,you get them to click the app,saying what is

going to occur is consensual.

regards worgeordie

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

On  Sky News this morning they were on about how 12 men

had charges against them for rape dropped in last few weeks,because

they found out that the women were not telling the truth, and

now there's an app, keep it on your phone,and before you engage

in sex with a stranger,you get them to click the app,saying what is

going to occur is consensual.

regards worgeordie

Yeah, that's fine, but let's get real.

Rape is a real thing. It happens all over the world, every day.

False accusation is also a real thing. 

I think's it's obvious that when victims report, the accusations are more often than not, for real.

But really it comes down to case by case thing.

If a victim is brave enough to report, and that still takes bravery, because victim's are always put under a morality microscope themselves, there still needs to be enough evidence to fairly convict.

Meaning, again, getting real, the vast majority of real rapes are either not reported in the first place or not pursued to conviction because of not enough evidence.

[observer90210]

Yes if the woman says "no" it's no. No arguing on that. ...

 

But if she is hanging around in a hanky panky or troubled area,  drunk,  late at night,  perhaps dressed in consequence, and accepts to go with a stranger in his room at the wee hours of the morning !!!!?.. a real lady would not act such and what was she expecting ? Or perhaps was the whole thing a scam,  planned to fiance her holiday by extorting money from the guy on rape charges ?  The Weinstein effect is really going a bit to far ....

 

(and No, my mom or sister would not be hanging around late, drunk in such an area and would not follow a stranger in his hotel room...just in case the argument comes up .-)

 

 

Edited January 21, 2018 by observer90210

[dfdgfdfdgs]

On 1/20/2018 at 4:11 PM, PMZ said:

What a mindless thing to say!

Going to a guys room does not, in any circumstances, mean consent! Being alone with a guy is not consent!

I didn't read the whole thread but this is like the wearing a short skirt and being drunk in a dark alleyway.  It doesn't mean you want to be raped but eventually you will be.  I'm not victim blaming and clearly the guy is to blame (if her story is true), but the girl needs to use common sense.  It's too late to complain about it after because by then she has already been raped.  Like crossing the road via a zebra crossing and getting run over because you didn't look.  Then saying "but I used the zebra crossing, I was not in the wrong".  Well that may be true but you're still in a wheelchair.

[dunroaming]

On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 9:22 PM, hgma said:

Mini skirts, late at night, no go area's, and invited to have a last drink together , are all brought in as reason 'she asked for it'

Sorry guy's if a woman say's NO its NO.......and as she immediately reported i assume there was a clear NO situation....

 

I agree but this looks like a very naïve American woman encountering a chancer when drunk.  Really bad combination when you are talking about night time Bangkok.  I am still amazed that many people refuse to acknowledge the dangers of 21st century life.  Of course No means No but putting yourself in situation as she seems to have done is a complete no-no as well!

[Jingthing]

I agree but this looks like a very naïve American woman encountering a chancer when drunk.  Really bad combination when you are talking about night time Bangkok.  I am still amazed that many people refuse to acknowledge the dangers of 21st century life.  Of course No means No but putting yourself in situation as she seems to have done is a complete no-no as well!

Sure thing but even if there was drunken consent before going to the room there are many reasons a person may change their mind in the room. Again. Use your imagination for people that have no personal reference for that. There are cultural differences too but sorry if he forced it regardless its rape even if it's not a rape legally in a particular country or more commonly not practically something that can be convicted.

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