SURVEY: Do you want Trump to finish his first term?

[riclag]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

The government is borrowing and spending like crazy.   That's bad for the future of America, but typical of Republicans.

Rubbish, American's are movin on up. It's indicative of having a opportunity to grow your investments(buy a house,continue education,open a business. 4.1 % growth,all time lows for unemployment, thanks to PT 

[stud858]

4 minutes ago, heybruce said:

The government is borrowing and spending like crazy.   That's bad for the future of America, but typical of Republicans.

It's all just numbers on paper and scare tactics. Governments and countries can't be bankrupt. When they need money,  they create it.  That's why gold is not used as a currency.  Gold cannot be created. The powerful needed something they could create at will with only themselves being able to create it. 

The problem I see.though is the spread between rich and poor. Borrowing and spending a gazillion dollars is of no concern to me.  It's who gets the money that should be discussed. 

[heybruce]

29 minutes ago, SinCityGr8One said:

Oh really? Republicans are the culprits? t was actually President Obama who doubled the National Debt in his 8 years in office. Obama was a Democrat.

You've been watching too much Faux News.  Obama inherited a $1.4 trillion deficit and a financial crisis from Bush and his final FY2009 budget.  Obama brought that deficit down significantly, and Trump immediately started running it up "bigly".   https://www.thebalance.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306

 

If you check deficit history back to Reagan, you'll find that deficits generally fall during Democratic administrations and rise during Republican ones. 

Edited July 28, 2018 by heybruce

[heybruce]

20 minutes ago, stud858 said:

It's all just numbers on paper and scare tactics. Governments and countries can't be bankrupt. When they need money,  they create it.  That's why gold is not used as a currency.  Gold cannot be created. The powerful needed something they could create at will with only themselves being able to create it. 

The problem I see.though is the spread between rich and poor. Borrowing and spending a gazillion dollars is of no concern to me.  It's who gets the money that should be discussed. 

Right, the government just printing money when it needs it worked out so well for the Weimar Republic in Germany, Zimbabwe, and, currently, Venezuela.

 

There are many more examples, history if full of them.

Edited July 28, 2018 by heybruce

[lannarebirth]

17 minutes ago, SinCityGr8One said:

Oh really? Republicans are the culprits? t was actually President Obama who doubled the National Debt in his 8 years in office. Obama was a Democrat.

That's true, Obama was horribly fiscally irresponsible. That said, Trump is just as bad or worse.

[riclag]

25 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Not in my mind.  How many members of you extended family are counting on Medicare being there when they need it?  

 

" House Speaker Paul Ryan, R-Wis., said Wednesday that congressional Republicans will aim next year to reduce spending on both federal health care and anti-poverty programs, citing the need to reduce America's deficit. "  http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-republican-welfare-cuts-20171206-story.html

Paul Ryan has retired.He won't be here to push his agenda

[heybruce]

4 minutes ago, riclag said:

Paul Ryan has retired.He won't be here to push his agenda

You think he's the only one pushing this agenda?

[stud858]

8 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Right, the government just printing money when it needs it worked out so well for the Weimar Republic in Germany, Zimbabwe, and, currently, Venezuela.

I don't think the printing of money was the problem but poor governance. But only my opinion.  I would be happy to print money and train more doctors and teachers with the money,  build more housing,  pay builders,  etc. But Maybe in my next life I can be someone more than a sheizenkicker. 

[mcambl61]

37 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Not in my mind.  How many members of you extended family are counting on Medicare being there when they need it?  

 

" House Speaker Paul Ryan, R-Wis., said Wednesday that congressional Republicans will aim next year to reduce spending on both federal health care and anti-poverty programs, citing the need to reduce America's deficit. "  http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-republican-welfare-cuts-20171206-story.html

That was not the topic, but getting spending under control is not a bad thing. unfortunately with all the waste fraud and redundant agencies it will be difficult to ever get there.

 

as long as the left thinks everything should be free and those evil rich people do not deserve their tax rate it will be a disaster

[heybruce]

6 minutes ago, stud858 said:

I don't think the printing of money was the problem but poor governance. But only my opinion.  I would be happy to print money and train more doctors and teachers with the money,  build more housing,  pay builders,  etc. But Maybe in my next life I can be someone more than a sheizenkicker. 

Intelligent management of the money supply, including increasing the money supply to accommodate an expanding economy or offset a deflationary contraction, is part of responsible fiscal policy.

 

However a massive tax cut financed with a dramatic increase in deficit spending when the economy is doing well is not responsible fiscal policy.  It's the equivalent of drinking whiskey after beer; it may feel good now, but you'll pay for it later.

[riclag]

11 minutes ago, heybruce said:

You think he's the only one pushing this agenda?

Your the one who named him!PT kept his promise to leave SS alone. Ryan can't leave soon enough

[heybruce]

3 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

That was not the topic, but getting spending under control is not a bad thing. unfortunately with all the waste fraud and redundant agencies it will be difficult to ever get there.

 

as long as the left thinks everything should be free and those evil rich people do not deserve their tax rate it will be a disaster

Can you identify anything close to a trillion dollars in waste, fraud and redundant agencies?  How about a billion?

 

The only thing that comes close is our wasteful, inefficient health care system.  If we adopted some form of universal healthcare similar to other advanced economies, it would trim 6% to 8% of wasteful spending from our GDP, and provide better health care in the process.  However Republicans aren't going to do that.  Sadly, Democrats aren't much likelier to do that either; too much lobbying from our bloated healthcare industry.

 

BTW, you didn't answer the question.  Do you have any family members who will need Medicare when they retire?  How will they react when Republicans state that the only way to reduce the deficit (without increasing taxes) is to cut Medicare?

[heybruce]

Just now, riclag said:

Your the one who named him!PT kept his promise to leave SS alone. Ryan can't leave soon enough

The article was about medicare.  What did Trump promise about Medicare, other than his abandoned promise of better health care than the Affordable Care Act?

 

Are other Republicans promising to leave Social Security alone?

[stud858]

5 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Intelligent management of the money supply, including increasing the money supply to accommodate an expanding economy or offset a deflationary contraction, is part of responsible fiscal policy.

 

However a massive tax cut financed with a dramatic increase in deficit spending when the economy is doing well is not responsible fiscal policy.  It's the equivalent of drinking whiskey after beer; it may feel good now, but you'll pay for it later.

Sure. I agree, but the poor aren't drinking beer. Well the responsible ones anyway.

[heybruce]

Lyin' Trump strikes again, but the Trumpies love it.

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ap-fact-check-trump-falsely-044729698.html

[Gecko123]

[mcambl61]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

Can you identify anything close to a trillion dollars in waste, fraud and redundant agencies?  How about a billion?

 

The only thing that comes close is our wasteful, inefficient health care system.  If we adopted some form of universal healthcare similar to other advanced economies, it would trim 6% to 8% of wasteful spending from our GDP, and provide better health care in the process.  However Republicans aren't going to do that.  Sadly, Democrats aren't much likelier to do that either; too much lobbying from our bloated healthcare industry.

 

BTW, you didn't answer the question.  Do you have any family members who will need Medicare when they retire?  How will they react when Republicans state that the only way to reduce the deficit (without increasing taxes) is to cut Medicare?

If you don't think there is abundant waste of money in the federal government there really is no need to discuss it. The ridiculous government union benefits are way too generous and they have rigged so it takes a miracle to fire anyone. You could easily find agencies to combine and there has to be an independent audit of every single department and employees and justify every single one of them and their budgets. 

 

Universal Healthcare is a massive financial cluster <deleted> waiting to crush the budget. What is needed is to make all hospitals and clinics publish their costs for everything. And allow all insurers across state lines with no restrictions. Currently they charge whatever the insurance company has approved to pay 

 

 

[mcambl61]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

Lyin' Trump strikes again, but the Trumpies love it.

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ap-fact-check-trump-falsely-044729698.html

So how many of these so called experts and pundits also said he would never achieve 4 percent gdp? Want a list? 

 

Maybe we need a liberal to save us.... 

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

That's true, Obama was horribly fiscally irresponsible. That said, Trump is just as bad or worse.

Nonsense. The USA was the first major industrialized nation to pull out of the recession thanks to the Obama stimulus. While it's virtually impossible to set up an economic experiment, sometimes events provide one,  The Eurozone decided to go the austerity route instead. Not only did it fail miserably, but it made the deficits worse and their recession lasted for years.. The UK fell somewhere in between the the USA and the EU as far as deficits go and fared likewise.

[mcambl61]

3 hours ago, stud858 said:

It's all just numbers on paper and scare tactics. Governments and countries can't be bankrupt. When they need money,  they create it.  That's why gold is not used as a currency.  Gold cannot be created. The powerful needed something they could create at will with only themselves being able to create it. 

The problem I see.though is the spread between rich and poor. Borrowing and spending a gazillion dollars is of no concern to me.  It's who gets the money that should be discussed. 

Who gets the money? Those who work for it or earn it. unless you want redistribution. 

[bristolboy]

3 hours ago, riclag said:

What's wrong with rich people winning!! Also the  4.1 %  economic growth is a stat that reflects everybody is winning in America !!  People are buying  and spending like crazy.  It's good for America!

Why would that prove that everybody is winning?. As the BLS statistics show, most workers aren't winning. They're treading water.

[bristolboy]

4 hours ago, Ramen087 said:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-economy/consumers-soybeans-lift-u-s-economic-growth-to-4-1-percent-idUSKBN1KH0B7

 

https://www.reuters.com/video/2018/07/27/us-economy-grows-41-percent?videoId=449321630&amp;videoChannel=5

 

The USA's President knows business... 

Did you actually read the article? Not nearly so positive as you apparently believe.

[Opl]

4 hours ago, SinCityGr8One said:

Oh really? Republicans are the culprits? t was actually President Obama who doubled the National Debt in his 8 years in office. Obama was a Democrat.

Elements of context do not hurt your reasoning…  

Don't Blame Obama For Doubling The Federal Deficit

" when you take into account the Great Recession, making W. Bush’s temporary tax cuts permanent, increased Social Security and Medicare spending as more Baby Boomers retire and become 65 years old and the Afghanistan and Iraq wars he inherited the story is quite different."

• Fiscal 2007: $161 billion (next to last year of Bush’s second term)
• Fiscal 2008: $459 billion (beginning impact from the Great Recession)
• Fiscal 2009: $1.4 trillion (Obama’s first year and in the teeth of the Recession)
• Fiscal 2010: $1.3 trillion
• Fiscal 2011: $1.3 trillion
• Fiscal 2012: $1.1 trillion
• Fiscal 2013: $680 billion
• Fiscal 2014: $485 billion
• Fiscal 2015: $438 billion
• Fiscal 2016: $587 billion
• Fiscal 2017: $666 billion (Trump’s first year of his Presidency)
• https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2018/01/15/obamas-federal-debt-grew-at-a-slower-rate-than-reagan-h-w-bush-or-w-bush/#111b23271917

Edited July 28, 2018 by Opl

[stud858]

3 hours ago, mcambl61 said:

Who gets the money? Those who work for it or earn it. unless you want redistribution. 

Probably give it to the governers that setup infrastructure. And yes then it gets passed onto those that earn it such as builders. 

[bristolboy]

11 minutes ago, bushdoctor said:

 

There is a difference between deficit and national debt. Under Obama the national debt nearly doubled. 

Apparently Trump supporters suffer from a peculiar form of amnesia in which they fall to recall that the economy of the West came perilously close to a depression in the wake of a financial collapse in 2008 thanks to the highly risky behaviors of the financial industry. So of course there were huge deficits. Under Obama laws were passed to stop the financial industry from being able to take those risks again. Under Trump, that same industry, whose practices Trump denounced during his campaign, has successfully lobbied to have those restrictions loosened and more loosening is on the way. Go Trump!

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, mcambl61 said:

If you don't think there is abundant waste of money in the federal government there really is no need to discuss it. The ridiculous government union benefits are way too generous and they have rigged so it takes a miracle to fire anyone. You could easily find agencies to combine and there has to be an independent audit of every single department and employees and justify every single one of them and their budgets. 

 

Universal Healthcare is a massive financial cluster <deleted> waiting to crush the budget. What is needed is to make all hospitals and clinics publish their costs for everything. And allow all insurers across state lines with no restrictions. Currently they charge whatever the insurance company has approved to pay

Everybody knows there's ample waste but nobody knows exactly where it is.  Even now, with Republicans controlling both houses of Congress and the White House, nobody can find what everybody knows is there.

 

However Republicans know that lots of money goes to Medicare, so that's where they'll start; not by looking for waste but simply by cutting funding, which will transfer cost to seniors.

 

Universal Healthcare works in every first world nation that uses it, in  provides better healthcare and significantly less money.  Why do you think that is?

 

 

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, mcambl61 said:

So how many of these so called experts and pundits also said he would never achieve 4 percent gdp? Want a list? 

 

Maybe we need a liberal to save us.... 

Sure, give me a list of those who said a 4% GDP couldn't be achieved for one quarter.

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, Opl said:

Elements of context do not hurt your reasoning…  

Don't Blame Obama For Doubling The Federal Deficit

" when you take into account the Great Recession, making W. Bush’s temporary tax cuts permanent, increased Social Security and Medicare spending as more Baby Boomers retire and become 65 years old and the Afghanistan and Iraq wars he inherited the story is quite different."

• Fiscal 2007: $161 billion (next to last year of Bush’s second term)
• Fiscal 2008: $459 billion (beginning impact from the Great Recession)
• Fiscal 2009: $1.4 trillion (Obama’s first year and in the teeth of the Recession)
• Fiscal 2010: $1.3 trillion
• Fiscal 2011: $1.3 trillion
• Fiscal 2012: $1.1 trillion
• Fiscal 2013: $680 billion
• Fiscal 2014: $485 billion
• Fiscal 2015: $438 billion
• Fiscal 2016: $587 billion
• Fiscal 2017: $666 billion (Trump’s first year of his Presidency)
• https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2018/01/15/obamas-federal-debt-grew-at-a-slower-rate-than-reagan-h-w-bush-or-w-bush/#111b23271917

For those who don't know how federal budgeting works, the Fiscal Year begins on October 1 of the proceeding year; so the FY 2009 budget was signed into law by George Bush and took effect October 1 2008.  That $1.4 trillion deficit belongs to Bush.

[heybruce]

38 minutes ago, bushdoctor said:

 

There is a difference between deficit and national debt. Under Obama the national debt nearly doubled. 

Yes, but Presidents who bring the deficit down, such as Clinton and Obama, will bring the national debt down as a fraction of the GDP.  Presidents who dramatically increase the deficit, such as Bush and Trump, do the opposite.

 

Funny thing, Bush also doubled the federal debt,   https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm   even though he took office with the federal budget in surplus, the country at peace, and the economy in a mild recession that primarily affected technology investors.  I wonder what happened there?

[bristolboy]

26 minutes ago, bushdoctor said:

 

Again, deficits are not the same as national debt. 

Do you understand the relationship between deficits and the national debt? It seems from your comments that you believe them to be unrelated things.