Pattaya bar fight: Key witness says Australian man beaten to death over “misunderstanding”

[The manic]

1 hour ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

The US is about the only country I know that extends some punishment after the full term of the sentence has been served (prison + probation) [i.e. the loss of voting rights].  Most other countries once you have fully served your sentence you are in the eyes of society fully rehabilitated.  The only reason a passport is typically denied is if a judge has issued an order (pending court case, warrant for your arrest), probation that has movement restrictions, and if you owe the government money (borrowed money - emergency funds from an embassy), or owe significant child support payments (which again falls back to the government).

And the USA voting law for ex crims was really about disenfranchising blacks.

[sanemax]

30 minutes ago, Mattd said:

.

Edit: I stand corrected, it seems that the US system will actually review the case after transfer and decide how long they should remain in prison for etc.

https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/criminal-oeo/legacy/2014/06/06/americans-arrested.pdf

Did you read that correctly ?

What it seems to say is that the prisoner may decide not to return to the USA because he may have to spend more time in jail in the USA , than he would in the Country that he is in .

   He would have to serve the full sentence in the USA rather than possibly getting a sentence reduction in Thailand , 

[The manic]

15 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

But Sid Bream had a point I think. When I first read the story I did wonder if the killer had an MMA / cage fighting background or had at least trained. When cage fighters get into street fights they are known to keep going until their opponent is completely unconscious, and maybe even carry on some more.

 

A mate of mine told me he felt sick after seeing a fight in a club back home in Essex when the victor just kept driving his fists into the face of the loser even though he was clearly out cold. It turned out that was a cage fighter.

 

 

He was a Brit fighter. We learned this the hard way when we were 11 at school.

[BigC]

I don’t believe the “ anonymous “ witness 

 

you don’t pick someone up by the neck till she turns blue for a joke

 

 

[connda]

Simple enough equation.

Alcohol + Testosterone + Ego + Catalyst = Death or Injury

 

Usually it's just.

Alcohol + Testosterone + Ego + Bargirl = Boom-boom

 

but toss an unfortunate Catalyst into the mix (Someone gets Offended by Something) and you end up with a Sad Story,

 

Another Ruang Sow this.  

[ujayujay]

Too much bla.... Kicks in the Head is murder.  

[idannyb]

14 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

But Sid Bream had a point I think. When I first read the story I did wonder if the killer had an MMA / cage fighting background or had at least trained. When cage fighters get into street fights they are known to keep going until their opponent is completely unconscious, and maybe even carry on some more.

 

A mate of mine told me he felt sick after seeing a fight in a club back home in Essex when the victor just kept driving his fists into the face of the loser even though he was clearly out cold. It turned out that was a cage fighter.

 

 

It's the street thugs that tend to go too far and deliver kill shots that are clearly unwarranted and potentially deadly. A majority of professional MMA fighters are in better control (avoid delivery of 'unnecessary' harm) than you might surmise. I've seen MMA bouts when a fighter, who knows they've 'knocked out' (silly) an opponent, pull their final punches even before the referee intervenes. I'd say the majority (albeit not all) of pro MMA fighters have respect for their opponent and would rather a referee stop a fight before they render serious/permanent damage to an opponent. It's sort of a 'do unto others' professional courtesy. 

 

There are also referees, rules (e.g. no groin kicks/punches or knees if an opponent is on the mat or still has a knee on the mat), and doctors nearby in a controlled MMA environment. 

[toofarnorth]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

Although we are not talking about anyones girlfriend and we are not talking about "asking whats going on" , this is an issue of a violent intervention .

    It may have been that the American guy was a previous customer of the B/G and he didnt like the attention that she was receiving from someone else .

Now that is a thought sanemax , and look how long it has taken for that idea to surface.

How many tourists have gone on a bender after realising their teeluk has had and is having more than one flend.

[sanemax]

10 minutes ago, BigC said:

I don’t believe the “ anonymous “ witness 

 

you don’t pick someone up by the neck till she turns blue for a joke

 

 

Although, do you believe that she actually "turned blue" .

[Tchooptip]

 

Australian man beaten to death over “misunderstanding”

 

  In fact, then the author is even more a wild brute,

The Thai lady supposedly victim of the Australian man in all likelihood was not screaming for help.

So the "American man" started the fight for sure and finished it by shooting and stomping in the face of the poor man enough to kill him, I am utterly disgusted. 

[tonray]

let's see how well he fares in Thai prison where the fight is likely 5 Thais to one farang.  Violent blockhead 

[StevieAus]

18 hours ago, RareDingo said:

I'm never sure about internet news, or any news anymore.  News outlets sometimes just trying to sell news, any news, to make a buck.  However, IF and I say IF this man has been charged with murder before (so young 42 to be out of jail), how they hell did he ever get a passport and how the hell did the Thai customs authorities ever let this piece of work into their country.  They are only asking for trouble, which they got, or more, some poor bastard on holiday's messing around with a Thai bar lady.  The mind boggles.  I hope the truth comes out, and those posting picks on social media are just as complicit in this crazy act as the boofhead who clearly has an anger management issue.  JMHO

I think one of the earlier reports stated that the murder charge in the US was reduced to manslaughter and he was released on probation

Also cannot remember what age he was but in some countries under the age of an adult after a period of time the. Record is expunged.

That possibly could be the case here but as we know criminals seem to have no problem entering Thailand

[rainfirri]

This man is obviously aggressive to stomp on his head 10 times this is manslaugter he deserves life in prison


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Time Traveller]

5 hours ago, vogie said:

But the Ozzy was only joking around "he picked up the waitress by her throat untill her legs were off the ground and her face turned blue," obviously had a great sense of humour.

Did you bother reading article? Obviously not, because it imples the waitress was just playing around and was not under threat at all.. In any case, only the people that were there know the truth, and comments randomly spread on the internet to point fingers at who is guilty are meaningless. 

[bbbbooboo]

hmmmmm...... curiouser and curiouser

[globalspark]

it is always a misunderstanding whenever there is a fight. it is sad to say you mind your own business when you visit Pattaya or wherever.  you see somebody getting their head kicked it you automatically help.Let's face  these girls   keep telling stories and if you are smart you do not get involved.profession girls amateur boys what hope have you got.

[Pattaya46]

42 minutes ago, BigC said:

you don’t pick someone up by the neck till she turns blue for a joke

 

I would bet that it's just never happened in this case. (the "her feet were off the ground and her face had turned blue" event)

Probably part of the misinformation that the American's friends posted on many forum and media such as Facebook.

They are very quiet since the Police said they have clear CCTV videos of the attack... 

Edited February 15, 2018 by Pattaya46

[sanemax]

6 minutes ago, toofarnorth said:

Now that is a thought sanemax , and look how long it has taken for that idea to surface.

How many tourists have gone on a bender after realising their teeluk has had and is having more than one flend.

Could even have been : USA guy was a regular "short time " friend with the B/G , long term Aussie "friend" shows up , B/G stands with Aussie , U.S.A guy feels rejected .

   A few hostile words were exchanged ,  U.S.A guys decides to show that he is "Alpha-male" by attacking the Aussie .

   Stays in the bar , expecting B/G to come back to him .

[LennyW]

If somebody got murdered everytime someone witnessed shenannagins between punters and girlies in Pattayas bars.....there would be a helluva lot of dead people around!!!

 

 

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

Did you bother reading article? Obviously not, because it imples the waitress was just playing around and was not under threat at all.. In any case, only the people that were there know the truth, and comments randomly spread on the internet to point fingers at who is guilty are meaningless. 

Of course I read the article, especially the bit about her face going blue, does your face go blue when you are playing about. My wifes always game for a laugh, I'll wait till she gets home and pick her up by the neck and lift her off the ground untill her face goes blue, she'll love it, what a sport she is.

Were you there? Nobody on here I should imagine was, so at the moment it is all speculation, we can only comment on what we read, if we had to wait for definitive proof it wouldn't be much of a forum now would it? 

[smew]

25yrs and throw away the key so he never walks free again. This American man is a dangerous low life  pretending to be a saviour 

[speckio]

If this is true then that means Jose straight up attacked and murdered someone without providing any type of warning...(there goes his claim of self-defense)  IF he had stopped for a split second and maybe said something along the lines of "Hey stop that you are hurting her" its very possible none of this might have occurred. Another extremely tragic and heartbreaking story that could have easily been avoided.. ..

 

Jose needs to go to jail he is obviously a danger to society and hopefully, he can get some help with the mental issues he has.

Edited February 15, 2018 by speckio

[spidermike007]

19 hours ago, darksidedog said:

It just goes to show you should never poke your nose in to something, unless you are 100% sure of what is actually happening. It was bad enough already, without it turning out to be a misunderstanding that kicked it all off.

 

Well, doubly so in Pattaya, Phuket and Samui. These locations attract a very violent and lowlife element. Not saying all who visit are within that description. But many are. And to intervene in a situation like this, when you are not absolutely positive it is a perilous situation for the woman, is dangerous, to say the least. Would have been better to get the bouncers involved, if he thought the gal was being mistreated. Not the best of judgment, by what sounds like a very shady character, confronting another shady character. 

 

I learned while living in Samui for many years, to stay to myself in bar situations. I ran into alot of drunk guys, who were from the wrong side of the tracks, who were just itching for a confrontation. Many of these guys, one could just tell by the look in their eyes, and their appearance, would think nothing of breaking a beer bottle, and jabbing you in the eyes, or the head, or the neck with it. Best to just keep your distance, and let these skunks lie. 

[wjcdavies]

No wonder Donald wants to build a wall!!

[PEE TEE]

15 hours ago, The manic said:

Be careful with logic and common sense on this forum 

<deleted> has that got to do with a bar fight 

[tingtongtourist]

2 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

 

Part of the misinformation campaign organised by the friends of the murderer ?

9News in Australia mentioned they received strong pressure to change the (true) story they published.

and what/who was the source of this "true"  report from 9news Australia? 

 

Strange that some people, especially from Australia..will think news must be true because it come from their country.

 

9news would also being rely on 2nd or 3rd person info from Thai at the bar or some tourist.

no better or accurate than we already heard actually

[ThaiFelix]

15 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Did anyone get to the bottom of the Weds Starbuck incident when the american had another misunderstanding?

Do you remember "I'm an american, we can do whatever we like" from a few months back?? 

[Pattaya46]

11 minutes ago, vogie said:

Of course I read the article, especially the bit about her face going blue, does your face go blue when you are playing about. //

 

The article mix everything . Initial reports, rumours, disinformation from a group of people, and add the last event being the lady saying that it was just a game, a simulation, an usual joke between them.

 

This lady was yesterday joking and laughing at her bar while simulating a strangulation on herself ! So I personally believe her and the big misunderstanding

[masuk]

19 hours ago, RareDingo said:

I'm never sure about internet news, or any news anymore.  News outlets sometimes just trying to sell news, any news, to make a buck.  However, IF and I say IF this man has been charged with murder before (so young 42 to be out of jail), how they hell did he ever get a passport and how the hell did the Thai customs authorities ever let this piece of work into their country.  They are only asking for trouble, which they got, or more, some poor bastard on holiday's messing around with a Thai bar lady.  The mind boggles.  I hope the truth comes out, and those posting picks on social media are just as complicit in this crazy act as the boofhead who clearly has an anger management issue.  JMHO

Customs have nothing to do with Immigration.   Why do you have the idea that it's 'Customs' who let these guys in??  I agree that previous convictions are supposed to be included in Visa applications.

[Pattaya46]

3 minutes ago, tingtongtourist said:

and what/who was the source of this "true"  report from 9news Australia? 

Strange that some people, especially from Australia..will think news must be true because it come from their country.

 

Because they have reporters on location in Pattaya; because they came interrogate people at the bar and at nearby bars; because they show videos of the Policemen interviews; because the clearly indicate the name of the Police officer when they quote him; etc...