In just two years there are 60 unexplained deaths of British nationals in Thailand: report

[leeneeds]

21 hours ago, leeneeds said:

Shoddy investigations no doubt, it happens all over, the world,

 

Insurance , is never given a thought and if it is , then so easily dismissed, 

 insurance to travel should be the law the world over,  death coverage being part of such insurance, 

As sad as a death is , if insurance on a death was taken out during travel,  and  paid out , the money given could be used  by  the family to pay for further investigation on such suspicious death, or deaths as mentioned in the report.

[Baerboxer]

19 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Anyone who has lived in Thailand for more than a few months understands how the system works here.

There are people above the law, and you can always buy your way out of trouble. There is no real justice system , it a corrupt system from top to bottom.

The accepted wisdom from many on TVF is that it's all the RTP. I would argue the corruption goes much much deeper.

The Thai apologists can, and will slam you for any criticism of Thailand, but in their heart they know it's true, often the fanatic harbors true doubt.

Not being British, I know nothing about the Daily Mail, above what I read on here. But, I suspect that they are actually real journalists unhindered by the restrictions of Thai LM or defamation laws.

 

The Daily Mail is regarded by many as little more than a fascist rag. 

 

But journalists are unhindered in the UK compared to some countries. Many so called "investigative journalists" have gone too far though and transgressed laws, and some have been punished.

 

The general standards of the British press ain't what they used to be!

[dunroaming]

20 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Not being British, I know nothing about the Daily Mail, above what I read on here. But, I suspect that they are actually real journalists unhindered by the restrictions of Thai LM or defamation laws.

The Daily Mail is a right wing tabloid that has pretty biased reporting as a rule.  Not to be taken so much as fact, rather as biased opinion.  However Pat Harrington is committed to the cause of exposing the overwhelming scale of corruption over deaths in Thailand and in this case the DM is being used as part of her campaign.

 

But let's not miss the point here.  The amount of British deaths in Thailand is staggering for the period quoted and that is just the Brits.  Add all other foreigners and it is even more shocking!

[FitnessHealthTravel]

This is a very unfortunate story for sure and there is always sketchy details with most cases in Thailand especially that 'Death Island" the smaller the Island the more corrupt and dodgy it is.  It's interesting that one women said "However, his wallet and watch were missing, leading his mother to believe his death was suspicious" actually stealing items from the dead is nothing new in road accidents. In the past Medical staff and Emergency workers have been know all over the world to take possessions from the crash site and person who has perished. This could have been the case with this women's son's accident... possibly.  Either way, many of those lives were so young. It's tragic.

[irishken]

I can remember standing in a bar in Dublin a few years ago and overhearing a conversation from a couple of young snobby lads about them heading off to Thailand in the summer months.

I had too giggle when i heard one of them say that you can do anything you want in Thailand, obviously after hearing some stories from mates who had been in Thailand before.

Its this kind of attitude that gets so many young people in trouble in Thailand and while you will get away with a lot of stuff, the one time it goes wrong is the time you'll regret if forever,that's if you live.

 

 

[sambum]

21 hours ago, Bullie said:

Ben Harington's death was at 4 oclock in the morning. The lad was drunk, and driving a motocy without licence or experience. 50% of Thai drivers on Koh Tao don't have working headlights, and maybe even the rental motocy didn't , either. A frontal collision on a narrow road at night can happen anytime, especially in Thailand where they tend to cut into the corners.

Driver fled, maybe even after checking for a pulse. Since the wallet and watch were no longer needed by poor mr. Harington, some poor Thai helped himself to it, after the fact.

 

Why do families always want to have the satisfaction that a death is treated assuspicious, rather than just foolish behaviour, ignorance or just rotten luck  on the part of their loved one?

The headline says 60 unexplained deaths according to a report by the Daily Mail - not the doubts of the victims' families.

 

And if one of your loved ones was one of those 60, I am pretty sure that you would be wanting the death to be investigated properly, rather than putting  it down to "foolish behaviour, ignorance or just rotten luck"! 

 

"The news site claims that the number of unexplained deaths “indicate a pattern of criminal behaviour, botched detective work — and, worst of all, police cover-ups”, in a bid to preserve Thailand’s tourism image."

 

 

Edited April 11, 2018 by sambum

[CeeGee]

Accidents and death happen all over the world, on holiday or just going to the shops.In most of the first world countries these are investigated and a conclusion is reached.If someone is at fault, they are named, punished(by laid down guidelines)if an accident, usually things are put in place to prevent it happening again.It is not unusual in the UK for a major motorway to be closed for hours to establish the cause of the accident.No one questions these findings because they trust the investigators.

In Thailand if the police say it is raining, you check the windows to see if it is.Therefore no one trusts the result of any investigation because they do not trust the investigators.This then leads to speculation, which leads to rumours.

If you could believe the police findings there would be far fewer "unexplained" deaths to explain.

[kannot]

9 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Is not my job, ask the newspaper.

You're the one quoting the stats to "give us perspective", It gives us  none if "you" cant show the Thai ones also

[Nip]

I lived in Thailand for 17 years and 10 years ago there was an attempt on my life. I was poisoned intentionally. The first thing that came to mind when I became lucid was if I had died that it would have been recorded as suicide or natural causes. The other thing of grave concern pun intended is that the people thrust forward at accidents or deaths of foreigners are tourist police volunteers and translators provided by the police. Don't trust any of them they are, not all but the vast majority of them paid police operatives. The worst location for these scum artists is Phuket. Its like the police safe house in Thailand is a safe house for the police.

[shaemus]

6 hours ago, jenny2017 said:

Pai is one of the best examples. So many people who’d never ridden a bike rent one and you can see those who only had an accident the next day wearing a cast, or similar.

A guy who died overdosed at the waterfall didn’t even make it into the news. He must have died of a heart attack or drowned himself.

Three different types of death listed by you. Which was the actual one? 

[sambum]

3 hours ago, Benroon said:

60 out of how many ? Whole figures mean nothing without a percentage! Then there’s the excess boozing, dangerous seas, blokes topping themselves because they were stupid enough to believe the 20 year old stunner really loved them etc etc - I’m shocked it’s only 60 ! 

 

Pant wetters need to chill a bit 

The 60 are unexplained deaths - not the explained deaths due to overdoses, drownings at sea, or suicides due to a broken heart etc etc.

 

And as another poster pointed out, this is just the figures for Brits - include all other "farangs" and you will have a figure in the hundreds!!!

[evadgib]

21 minutes ago, Nip said:

I lived in Thailand for 17 years and 10 years ago there was an attempt on my life. I was poisoned intentionally. The first thing that came to mind when I became lucid was if I had died that it would have been recorded as suicide or natural causes. The other thing of grave concern pun intended is that the people thrust forward at accidents or deaths of foreigners are tourist police volunteers and translators provided by the police. Don't trust any of them they are, not all but the vast majority of them paid police operatives. The worst location for these scum artists is Phuket. Its like the police safe house in Thailand is a safe house for the police.

Lawyers or translators projecting themselves into an investigation should be treated with a great deal of caution if they appointed themselves or aren't on the list given to families by their Embassy. Lists aren't always foolproof but where possible the companies/people on them are registered with the MFA/appropriate local authorities.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/thailand-list-of-lawyers

'Buyer Beware!'

HTH

 

Edited April 11, 2018 by evadgib

[Puwa]

"Explained" and "unexplained" are pretty squishy categories, presented as if objective but in fact quite subjective--explained to whose satisfaction? And while death is a serious event, there are other kinds of trouble just a hair's breadth away from it, such as rape, assault, attempted murder, extortion, wrongful conviction and imprisonment, significant theft etc. Think of these as "trouble." What they have in common are the bad intentions of another person. One can argue the extent to which negligence qualifies (thinking of people who get electrocuted in hotel pools with shoddy lamp wiring). So I think the real question is what is the risk to foreign visitors and expats of encountering trouble of the kinds enumerated above, whether they come out of it dead or alive. And length of time exposed to risk matters, too-- i.e., the 20-year expat versus the one-week visitor.

[GinBoy2]

4 hours ago, Benroon said:

Daily Mail ‘real journalists’ Haha your post lost all credibility right there !

 

Are ‘Thai apologists’ the same people who don’t wet their pants every time something bad happens ?

The Thai apologists are those of you, regardless if the truth was stuffed into your mouth would somehow come up with a ‘but what about you country’ BS. 

 

I lived here, I have a Thai wife, but I still have enough intellect to recognize the reality of the country, which seems to elude the ‘apologists'

[simoh1490]

43 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

The Thai apologists are those of you, regardless if the truth was stuffed into your mouth would somehow come up with a ‘but what about you country’ BS. 

 

I lived here, I have a Thai wife, but I still have enough intellect to recognize the reality of the country, which seems to elude the ‘apologists'

As if apologists is some gang where members have totally different traits to everyone else, rather than thinking people who have simply dug a little deeper into/had more experience of than most and realise there are two sides to a coin. GB, if you had intellect you wouldn't be using that term and you'd be admitting that coin does have two sides, even if you personally haven't seen either.

[soistalker]

On 4/10/2018 at 2:25 AM, leeneeds said:

Shoddy investigations no doubt, it happens all over, the world,

 

No. It does not. Not to the level it is seen in Thailand. 

[soistalker]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

As if apologists is some gang where members have totally different traits to everyone else, rather than thinking people who have simply dug a little deeper into/had more experience of than most and realise there are two sides to a coin. GB, if you had intellect you wouldn't be using that term and you'd be admitting that coin does have two sides, even if you personally haven't seen either.

The old 'Problem X happens in country Y, too.' The problems in Thailand that we chat about on this site are exponentially worse in Thailand than in other countries where the natives care about other human beings, not just their own country's people. 

[Nip]

4 hours ago, evadgib said:

Lawyers or translators projecting themselves into an investigation should be treated with a great deal of caution if they appointed themselves or aren't on the list given to families by their Embassy. Lists aren't always foolproof but where possible the companies/people on them are registered with the MFA/appropriate local authorities.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/thailand-list-of-lawyers

'Buyer Beware!'

HTH

 

There is only one rule of thumb with regards to Phuket lawyers. Avoid them at all costs. If they are not corrupt then the ones that are will silence them. Foreigners simply do not win in Phuket Court and if they do most likely they used little brown envelope was bigger than the other guys. 

[mahtin]

12 hours ago, evadgib said:

The Full Moon Party that feeds Koh Tao isn't Glastonbury and it's time everyone realised it.

 

 

 

I haven't been to either island in years, but the FMP used to be a Koh Phangan feature.

In the interest of accuracy, somewhat lacking in this thread.

[TheLobster]

17 minutes ago, mahtin said:

I haven't been to either island in years, but the FMP used to be a Koh Phangan feature.

In the interest of accuracy, somewhat lacking in this thread.

Maybe English isn't your 1st language, the post said 'feeds' Koh Tao, not that where the party is 

[mahtin]

1 hour ago, TheLobster said:

Maybe English isn't your 1st language, the post said 'feeds' Koh Tao, not that where the party is 

So how did you understand "feeds", then?

I took it to mean, "gain revenue from".

 

Please share your interpretation of the poster's intended meaning.

[LomSak27]

4 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

As if apologists is some gang where members have totally different traits to everyone else, rather than thinking people who have simply dug a little deeper into/had more experience of than most and realise there are two sides to a coin

So the apologists are NOT a paid, for hire troll team?!  Great News Simoh!! I feel better already.

Edited April 11, 2018 by LomSak27

[TheLobster]

12 hours ago, evadgib said:

The Full Moon Party that feeds Koh Tao isn't Glastonbury and it's time everyone realised it.

 

47 minutes ago, mahtin said:

I haven't been to either island in years, but the FMP used to be a Koh Phangan feature.

In the interest of accuracy, somewhat lacking in this thread.

You stated that the poster evadgib was wrong, you just didn't understand the message. You are stating the Full Moon Party is on Koh PG which is correct but you misunderstood the post. Tourists often go to Koh Tao before and after the full moon party.... hence the full moon party feeds Koh Tao

 

[mahtin]

On 4/12/2018 at 12:16 AM, TheLobster said:

 

You stated that the poster evadgib was wrong, you just didn't understand the message. You are stating the Full Moon Party is on Koh PG which is correct but you misunderstood the post. Tourists often go to Koh Tao before and after the full moon party.... hence the full moon party feeds Koh Tao

 

Fine. Point conceded.

[Rc2702]

60 unexplained + 1000 explained with severe doubts as to the explanation more like

[leeneeds]

You need to look at Goa, 

[leeneeds]

3 hours ago, soistalker said:

No. It does not. Not to the level it is seen in Thailand. 

Indonesia.

[simoh1490]

3 hours ago, soistalker said:

The old 'Problem X happens in country Y, too.' The problems in Thailand that we chat about on this site are exponentially worse in Thailand than in other countries where the natives care about other human beings, not just their own country's people. 

The issue is not about being caring but about being fully developed. Of course, the legal system here is not as robust as it is in say the UK; the roads here are less safe than in many countries in the West; the education system here is less robust than in the West....and so on. But Thailand is a developing country, did you not understand that before you came here or were you expecting things here would be the same as or better than in the UK, EU or the US? Of course, many things here are worse than in many western countries, why is that such a surprise? I have no problem with saying that Thailand is those things BUT there needs to be some balance in the argument and labelling everyone who points out there are positives as apologists is just lazy, an excuse for not thinking about things. 

 

The legal system here can be corrupt and people can buy their way out of things, that doesn't mean the entire system is corrupt and doesn't work well and robustly, it does for most people. Driving here can be very dangerous, the death toll is very high, that doesn't mean that careful people can't get around easily and safely, they can and they do - I've driven 15k/20k per year here for the past 16 years without an accident! The education system leaves much to be desired in some areas, there's room for improvement. That doesn't mean to say the entire system is useless and doesn't work, it does. The system churns out highly qualified doctors, surgeons, pilots, business people in large numbers, every year.

 

If people like GB want to accuse my position above of being an apologist, my response is they haven't really thought about things or simply don't know, after all, it's easier to bash the entire country than to actually think about matters.

[Jonmarleesco]

On 4/10/2018 at 3:59 PM, webfact said:

The news site claims that the number of unexplained deaths “indicate a pattern of criminal behaviour, botched detective work — and, worst of all, police cover-ups”, in a bid to preserve Thailand’s tourism image.

Dear, oh dear, that will never do. Come on Chaktip, sue them. Oh, wait a minute, though, The Mail isn't in LoS, is it? Already on Thailand's blacklist. Well, you could always try suing in a UK court, though the UK's version of libel is somewhat different to LoS's.

 

Oh,well, since he's unlikely to like it, I suppose he'll have to lump it.

[Jonmarleesco]

22 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

The system churns out highly qualified doctors, surgeons, pilots, business people in large numbers, every year.

Many of whom are overseas educated and qualified.