emigrating and selling house

[khunPer]

9 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Good luck trying to sell at double what you paid in 2007!

Don't consider buying – or building – a house as an secure investment, like in a Western country.

 

A brand new and unused, or almost unused, house might be sold for little more than the construction price, simply an overprice for buyer not having the hassle to build the house. After a while most house-prices begin to decrease – looking at the building only – just like a used car. A Thai friend, experience in economy, told me that he calculate a 10% decrease in building value a year; might not be the first few years, but then the building value slowly decrease as the building wears out. Good maintenance may however, in my view, lower the speed of value decrease, or keep it at square one.

 

The land under the house, on the other hand, will normally increase it's value. Depending of land price increase, and house value decrease, you might be happy to get your "invested" money back; however over long time the land price increase will outperform the decreased investment in the building, and you could end up with a profit; and depending of location that could be a nice profit.

 

It's normally said that location is everything when talking about real estate. Those who for example bought land at Phuket or Koh Samaui at the "right time", has made a really good profit. During the later years the land prices has not gone up that fast, and a newly bought house might be difficult to sell without some level of loss, or just having the money back. The last could also be a loss after mandatory taxation.

 

Many Thais don't include the land price when calculating rent; i.e. if they build a house for 2.5 million baht (building construction only), they might typically count 10 percent in rent a year, i.e. 250,000 baht or around 20.000 baht a month. If it's an attractive location they might get little more in rent. From a pure financial calculated point of view, it's in many cases cheaper to rent than buy. Only when you are into some outstanding prime locations, like a beach-front or excellent sea-view house, some level of "land value" is included; the 2.5 million baht building could be rented out for for example up to as much as 100.000 baht a month (short term) including service and usage, talking from experience.

 

But without a proper price valuation one can be lucky to find a buyer that accept a high price; and a buyer can be unlucky, and realize he bought something overpriced that cannot be sold without some level of loss.

[seancbk]

7 hours ago, bontang said:

Altcar Bob,

                      The Negitive  Festooning Property Expert,     You talk a load of Crap Mate, 

 

 

Look at the way he writes.  I reckon he's either drunk or a Non native English speaker; perhaps both.  

[rickudon]

A 10% annual return on renting a house is pie in the sky in most places. We cannot find anyone to rent at even 3,000 baht a month (admittedly an older house). A 5 million baht home may get you 10-15,000 baht rent. A friend who builds to rent for the Thai market typically asks 4-8000 a month. Think 3-5% return. Shop houses in a prime location will get more due to business potential, but i know a row of them built 3 years ago has half still empty. As many people have said, takes years to sell.

[mrfaroukh]

Well the best is to make sure there is a genuine buyer by getting some large advance and then come to sign and sell the house. If you permit the agent to sell in your absence you never know what would happen.

[khunPer]

13 minutes ago, rickudon said:

A 10% annual return on renting a house is pie in the sky in most places. We cannot find anyone to rent at even 3,000 baht a month (admittedly an older house). A 5 million baht home may get you 10-15,000 baht rent. A friend who builds to rent for the Thai market typically asks 4-8000 a month. Think 3-5% return. Shop houses in a prime location will get more due to business potential, but i know a row of them built 3 years ago has half still empty. As many people have said, takes years to sell.

10% is for a brand new house, however location and market demand can easily change that; the 10% figure is valid in the tourist area where I live, and it seem to fit very well with the market. However here are also few empty buildings for rent, and in some places the rent might seem too high, even based on it's prime location, but after a while someone rents them. New build town-houses here, typically with a ground floor usable for business, are sold fairly fast, or leased out.

 

5 million baht for building construction only, land cost excluded, should normally give you a quite nice house that is worth more than 10-15,000 baht in monthly rent, it's 2.5 to 3.5 percent; but if so, it confirm that it's better to rent than buying/building a house. However, if it's an asked for price of 5 million baht, it might be quite a bit away from the actual building construction cost. To my knowledge the normal Western-country investor hand-rule is an annual rent in the range from 8% to 12%, including administration costs and maintenance; it's probably not that different in Thailand.

?

[inThailand]

I concur, it is a buyers or renters market with no end in sight. Depending on when you bought you can lower the price significantly and make out fine based on exchange rates when you take the proceeds home. 

[altcar bob]

9 hours ago, Robert Ian said:

If you would like a reliable, non smoker, no pets, caretaker to stay in the property, to safe guard it, and in exchange for a nominal rent, keep the place clean and tidy, water the plants and keep the garden (assuming there is one) looking good, liaise with your agent when he/she wants to show a potential buyer through the home, and to also liaise with you if bills come in, I am happy to come to Chiang Mai to meet with you to discuss. I am currently living in Hua Hin. Previous to living in Hua Hin, I lived in Chiang Rai, so am familiar with Chiang Mai. 

 

Now this is a good idea,but not up to me to make this decision. What it would do is keep the house in running order,and houses here deteriorate fast,the plumbing for one,everything but everything gets bunged up by the sediment build up,ants cockroaches ,rats inc,take up home.....exactly happened here where I live,absent owner (Aussie) although up for sale,left it,and spent a fair amount bringing it up to standard,break her heart when my time comes to go,I keep a large tank/tropical fish ,so a bit difficult to up and go...another house virt,opposite stands empty(another Aussie owner) but she wants a strict 12 month lease,(thoughts of selling ha ha) at high ish rent,never get it and house will be kaput in next to no time

 Yes I'm determined to quit Thailand too,but I do have ties which may last a few years yet    Always was going to be Spain final destination,but my gawd,its worse there,but still Spain

Edited June 13, 2018 by altcar bob

[grkt]

So it's now clean that condos are better for investment !

 

 

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, grkt said:

So it's now clean that condos are better for investment !

Condos don't sell either.

Old people don't need to invest, they need to have all their money available to spend by the time they die.

[altcar bob]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Condos don't sell either.

Old people don't need to invest, they need to have all their money available to spend by the time they die.

Bugger!

    I'm convinced come another 5 years farang as we knew it will not exist in Thailand.  Rents will continue downwards, house prices upwards,but compulsory crime checks from home country,plus mandatory health insurance for long stay,and if rumours are true,if not true already the company house purchase method will be outlawed,so good time for bag packing methinks

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Condos don't sell either.

Old people don't need to invest, they need to have all their money available to spend by the time they die.

A lot of truth in that statement, this apart from the fact that some older folks may want to buy something in conjunction with their other half so that they can leave it to them on their demise.

 

And that brings in to play another point which hasn't been mentioned, which is that if a farang wishes to buy a house, then he has to buy it in his wife's/girlfriends name because he cannot own the land, or enter into an illegal setup which constitutes a Thai nominee company.

 

Both of which have potential inherent faults, the latter being illegal and the former putting one's future in the hands of a Thai lady (many good ones around I know, so I'm not judging).

 

Perhaps the frequent news items regarding a crackdown on Thai nominee companies has made potential buyers wary of investing in this place, that in conjunction with the horror stories one reads?

[buddhadug]

On 6/11/2018 at 6:47 PM, worgeordie said:

Government

have made it very difficult for Farangs to stay here,

Can you clarify exactly what the government has done to make it difficult for Farangs? I am retiring in a few months with my Thai national wife and moving to Thailand from U.S. so I appreciate a heads up to avoid difficulties.

 

[worgeordie]

3 minutes ago, buddhadug said:

Can you clarify exactly what the government has done to make it difficult for Farangs? I am retiring in a few months with my Thai national wife and moving to Thailand from U.S. so I appreciate a heads up to avoid difficulties.

 

You will be OK,with either a marriage or retirement visa it is those people 

doing visa runs,Ed visa's that have been hit.

regards Worgeordie

[buddhadug]

Thanks worgeordie.....

Do you happen to know why land has gone sky high in Surin and other Isaan areas?

[Khun Jean]

So the fact that foreigners can not own a house or land has nothing to do with it?

I think that is the main reason why even with lower prices property does not sell.

If you can not own it, why should anyone do it anyway.

Maybe it is now more difficult to go the company with nominee route as it was years ago.

And not everyone has a trustworthy wife/girlfriend to put the property in their name.

 

Well maintained Condos suffer less from this, reason should be clear.

 

We have some nice land for sale and get lots of info requests. Once they know the Thai rules about land ownership the interest is completely gone. Leaves us the Thai individuals. Many are often not interested in the same locations as foreigners do.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Khun Jean

[a10ams]

On ‎6‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 7:54 AM, altcar bob said:

   Finest thing I ever did ,not buying a place here

Horses for courses, I'd say the opposite to the above.

 

I came here 11 1/2 years ago and bought at 6.2m. The exact same house next door (but no pool) rents from 35-40k per month. Lets say 35k x 12 x 11.5 had I rented it. That's 4.8m towards somebody else's mortgage.

 

Three more years and I've had it for free.

[Odysseus123]

On 6/12/2018 at 10:54 AM, altcar bob said:

All over the place,awash with them,empty property/for sale /rent,whatever,thing is there are far more to come onto the market too. Neighbour is just abandoning his place 18 mil,two more nice places lying empty nobody taking them up(sorry 3 now)

   Finest thing I ever did ,not buying a place here

"Farang" tombstones I used to call them.

 

There were plenty up my way.

[BritManToo]

7 hours ago, buddhadug said:

Can you clarify exactly what the government has done to make it difficult for Farangs? I am retiring in a few months with my Thai national wife and moving to Thailand from U.S. so I appreciate a heads up to avoid difficulties.

 

The USA is cheap with many nice places to live, retiring to Thailand will be a mistake.

I'd prefer to live there than here.

[Cricky]

11 hours ago, a10ams said:

Horses for courses, I'd say the opposite to the above.

 

I came here 11 1/2 years ago and bought at 6.2m. The exact same house next door (but no pool) rents from 35-40k per month. Lets say 35k x 12 x 11.5 had I rented it. That's 4.8m towards somebody else's mortgage.

 

Three more years and I've had it for free.

How can you live here and not buy a house,. I've bought 2 over the years, I enjoy working around the house and garden every day. I understand some people prefer to rent, what I don't understand is how people can live in an apartment, a room, this is not living. A box, I need my space. 

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, rickjza said:

what I don't understand is how people can live in an apartment, a room, this is not living. A box, I need my space. 

Plenty of 2 bedroom houses available for rent at 4k-7k/month.

No need to live in a condo.

[DavidB4]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Plenty of 2 bedroom houses available for rent at 4k-7k/month.

No need to live in a condo.

But how does one find these houses? I want to for an Aussie friend of mine. I see empty houses but never any for rent signs...?

[xylophone]

4 hours ago, rickjza said:

I understand some people prefer to rent, what I don't understand is how people can live in an apartment, a room, this is not living. A box, I need my space. 

Perhaps needs change as people do!

 

In NZ I had large houses, 3 dbl beds. dbl garage, sep lounge and dining etc, plus a swimming pool (once) and when I moved here I bought a 2 b/room town house and moved in with my g/f.

 

After we parted company I stayed for a while and decided it was too big for my needs, so sold it and rented an apt.

 

Just recently went to look at a house for rent (same as my old one) and decided that I didn't want/need that amount of space and that my apt suited my needs perfectly...……...no garden to worry about, no snakes, clean it in 5 mins and a lock up and leave situation.

 

NEVER thought this would be the case years  ago, but suits me perfectly now.

[BritManToo]

20 minutes ago, DavidB4 said:

But how does one find these houses? I want to for an Aussie friend of mine. I see empty houses but never any for rent signs...?

Ask at local shops, speak to market traders, cruise around on your m/c looking for signs on gates.

Like this

 

[altcar bob]

Yes as you get older.the house,especially large house gets a burden,and if UK ite it will be taken off you when needs must by local authority for your care.  Without Thai GF my place would be like bombs hit it in 5 minutes flat,renting the way to go(in Thailand)  younger perhaps diff circumstance)  but older,no chance

[grkt]

14 hours ago, BritManToo said:

The USA is cheap with many nice places to live, retiring to Thailand will be a mistake.

I'd prefer to live there than here.

 

Where can we live for cheap in USA ?

 

 

[grkt]

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Plenty of 2 bedroom houses available for rent at 4k-7k/month.

No need to live in a condo.

 

Houses at this price ? Where ? Never seen, never heard.

 

 

[BritManToo]

23 minutes ago, grkt said:

Houses at this price ? Where ? Never seen, never heard.

It's probably because you don't speak or read Thai.

 

 

[BritManToo]

25 minutes ago, grkt said:

Where can we live for cheap in USA ?

Detroit.

[grkt]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Detroit.

 

How long before being killed ? ?

 

 

[kannot]

On 6/13/2018 at 8:18 AM, BritManToo said:

Condos don't sell either.

Old people don't need to invest, they need to have all their money available to spend by the time they die.

Nonsense, condos dont sell,  my wife spends many days at the land office at Srinakarin road doing the paperwork for those condos that "dont sell"

Another load of crap is "Thais dont  buy secondhand condos "