Tham Luang cave: As water levels recede, rescuers inclined to evacuate stranded 13 before rains aggravate floods

[JetSetFvr]

1 hour ago, holy cow cm said:

Yes they are the best Thailand has, but not so sure as in most things should be compared of thought of as the complete real deal as being distinguished as a seal. Not sure if it is a military ego thing to use them or not as I would think there would be better qualified personal somewhere in the world waiting to jump in. Even divers for oil rigs might be better as they live the life daily. Not knocking them and one did just die, and the shot plan caller has to live with that as the boys will also feel some responsibility for his death too! As they don't have enough sadness and problems that will stay with them for a long time. 

Respectfully, Thai people are very prideful and have to do everything to save face.  They have to do this for the most part themselves as yes, and ego thing.  They won't admit they don't know what they are doing, lack experience, or anything.........again, to save face.  you have to understand how Thai people think to understand.

[JetSetFvr]

6 minutes ago, HHTel said:

There's a video of the extremely narrow gap that these kids would have to go through, basically on their own:

 

From twitter:

 

 

OH WOW!!  That would make anyone panic.  I wonder why they can't dig it out.  But the kids are smaller.  I don't want to be negative about my next comment, but people need to be ringing some bells at the temple for these kids.    Sadly, that Seal diver ran out of air from his tank. 

[canuckamuck]

32 minutes ago, HHTel said:

There's a video of the extremely narrow gap that these kids would have to go through, basically on their own:

 

From twitter:

 

 

That really puts it into perspective, thanks for that.

 

[flyingdoc]

All the very best in the monumental rescue effort and tasks that lie ahead.  I cannot but think that an almost immediate evacuation, however fraught, is best, as mental stability will be brought into the equation before long, if there has to be a long wait until the rains subside.

[smutcakes]

That video put me into a panic sitting at my desk in the office.!!

[Jingthing]

3 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

 

Try to keep up, the seal didn't die in the dive, he died because lack of oxygen in the cave chamber.

Yes, if you're being literal, that is correct.

Cause of death was said to be lack of oxygen.

He lost consciousness actively in the dive and was not able to be revived either in the cave or in hospital. 

But if you're suggesting the cave dive wasn't directly related to the cause of his death and that these long dives are safe for untrained people, I'm not buying it.

Would he have lost consciousness if he was attending a garden party instead? I think not. 

Edited July 6, 2018 by Jingthing

[Krataiboy]

Facemasks fitted with snorkels might be a better idea than just face masks. It's how I and a lot of my generation learned to overcome fear of water and swim.

[steve73]

1 hour ago, HHTel said:

There's a video of the extremely narrow gap that these kids would have to go through, basically on their own:

 

From twitter:

 

 

I can't get the video to play but from the photo it looks encouraging. 

Reasonably good visibility and the boys already know how tight it will be since they got through there in the dry.

[UKJASE]

i dont believe that video is from the cave system.  the water looks far too clear.  i read the visibilty was about 15 cm......   

i did also read that there is a section where divers must remove their tanks, as the passage is too small......  so this video gives an idea of the dangers involved, and how easily it would be too panic.  

 

If i was stuck in the cave and i had the choice to dive through i am not sure i would take it, and i am a strong swimmer and have scuba dived many times

 

a very scary situation indeed

[balo]

That video above is not from the same cave? Can anyone confirm that ?   

 

If it is that tight it will be a big challenge , maybe try to make the gap bigger first . 

 

[Jingthing]

20 minutes ago, balo said:

That video above is not from the same cave? Can anyone confirm that ?   

 

If it is that tight it will be a big challenge , maybe try to make the gap bigger first . 

 

I'm also assuming not the same cave. Visible or not, that is not encouraging. 

[heybuz]

I'm all for drilling a shaft. surely a mining company would have the expertise to do this.

[HHTel]

 It doesn't matter whether it's from the same cave or not.  It highlights the dangers in the journey home.  If it's only half as difficult as that then it's still bloody scary.  It's already been reported that there are sections where the tanks have to be taken off in order to proceed. It also shows why some of the ideas from the 'bright sparks' on here are not feasible.

Edited July 6, 2018 by HHTel
spelling

[Moti24]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

Rescue alternatives include teaching the boys to dive and then swim out, a highly risky venture, remaining in the cave for months until the wet season ends and flood waters recede, or drilling a shaft into the cave from the forest above.

This is my first comment on this topic; I couldn't see the point in repeating comments already made.  Of course, I hope all 13 survive, and are brought to the surface as quick as possible.

 

Reading some of the constant drivel that the media is printing makes me want to puke.  First, it was anounced that it could be up to 4 months before they are rescued.  Then, it'll only be a couple of days before they are all out.  Meanwhile, there are other people traipsing through the forest looking for a non-existent shaft; what is this, ****in Narnia!

 

Then we have the, "We'll turn the cave into a tourist attraction" crap.  Money still rules in the LOS, despite there being 13 lives at risk, not to mention the poor guy who died delivering oxygen tanks.  One thing's for sure: If oil or minerals had been found in the same place, a shaft would have been installed quicker than a tent at a roadside checkpoint.  It's about time somebody with a conscience took charge, somebody who can actually make a decision without checking the small change in his pocket.

 

Meanwhile, we can only live in hope.  Good luck to the 13.

[soalbundy]

20 minutes ago, Moti24 said:

This is my first comment on this topic; I couldn't see the point in repeating comments already made.  Of course, I hope all 13 survive, and are brought to the surface as quick as possible.

 

Reading some of the constant drivel that the media is printing makes me want to puke.  First, it was anounced that it could be up to 4 months before they are rescued.  Then, it'll only be a couple of days before they are all out.  Meanwhile, there are other people traipsing through the forest looking for a non-existent shaft; what is this, ****in Narnia!

 

Then we have the, "We'll turn the cave into a tourist attraction" crap.  Money still rules in the LOS, despite there being 13 lives at risk, not to mention the poor guy who died delivering oxygen tanks.  One thing's for sure: If oil or minerals had been found in the same place, a shaft would have been installed quicker than a tent at a roadside checkpoint.  It's about time somebody with a conscience took charge, somebody who can actually make a decision without checking the small change in his pocket.

 

Meanwhile, we can only live in hope.  Good luck to the 13.

To drill a hole 1 km deep you need heavy drilling equipment which means a road to get to the top and making a secure platform first, that with the drilling would take months.

The rescuers are between a rock and a hard place, wait a few months and risk them drowning if the cave fills entirely or risk some of them dying diving out while they still have a chance before the rains start, not an easy decision hence all the speculation from the media, it will take a brave man to make that decision, I don't envy him, he will be quickly forgotten if it's a success and damned if it's a failure.

Edited July 6, 2018 by soalbundy

[Sheryl]

OH WOW!!  That would make anyone panic.  I wonder why they can't dig it out.  But the kids are smaller.  I don't want to be negative about my next comment, but people need to be ringing some bells at the temple for these kids.    Sadly, that Seal diver ran out of air from his tank. 

We do not know that this is what happened. Many possibilities, some equipment related and some not. 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

 

[Max66]

4 hours ago, Toshiba66 said:

We all became aware about 3 hours ago. Please read previous threads.

Yeah and I posted it 4 hours ago.  An hour before.

 4-3=1.

See how that works.

[Toscano]

Scuba diving is one thing , not too difficult to teach the boys ; but cave diving is another ball game , especially if it is necessary to dive deep and negotiate a long and very narrow passage .  The greatest danger is panic in such a tightly confined situation .  I have seen on Thai news a canvas wrap that the could be towed out with head mask and oxygen .  I envisage creating a fibreglass or plastic capsule that the boys could be sealed into with oxygen supply and they're being towed out by navy Seal divers .    

[HHTel]

20 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

We do not know that this is what happened. Many possibilities, some equipment related and some not. 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

 

Yes we do.  It's been reported multiple times.  He lost consciousness on his way back due to lack of air.  His dive buddy tried to revive him but without success. 

[Toscano]

3 hours ago, JetSetFvr said:

OH WOW!!  That would make anyone panic.  I wonder why they can't dig it out.  But the kids are smaller.  I don't want to be negative about my next comment, but people need to be ringing some bells at the temple for these kids.    Sadly, that Seal diver ran out of air from his tank. 

TERRIFYING !!!  Even to watch the film !!!  I wouldn't even consider the risk of taking the boys through such a tight tunnel .

[chrisinth]

3 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

That really puts it into perspective, thanks for that.

 

Not saying that the video isn't from this cave system, but that is really clear water. Not what we have been previously been told.

[canuckamuck]

The weather has been very cooperative, but The skies just broke open at our place with a real gully washer. I am about 65 k from the cave.

Hopefully it's just our area getting soaked.

[janclaes47]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes, if you're being literal, that is correct.

Cause of death was said to be lack of oxygen.

He lost consciousness actively in the dive and was not able to be revived either in the cave or in hospital. 

But if you're suggesting the cave dive wasn't directly related to the cause of his death and that these long dives are safe for untrained people, I'm not buying it.

Would he have lost consciousness if he was attending a garden party instead? I think not. 

I don't know since the reporting is pretty confusing, but in the same article does the governor mention that since there are now too many people present inside the cave, they fear for lack of oxygen and are seeking ways to add oxygen to the cave chambers.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44734385

A lack of oxygen

Authorities say there are concerns about falling oxygen levels in the chamber where the boys and their coach are trapped.

Oxygen was being depleted by the large number of people working inside the cave network, said the Chiang Rai Governor, Narongsak Osotthanakorn.

Authorities are now working to get a 5km (3 mile) cable into the cave to supply the group with air. They are also trying to feed a fibre optic cable through to the group, to connect them to their families for the first time in nearly two weeks.

 

 

[tifino]

probably some equivalent air pumping system, as used in deep sea diving

 

surely must be better than this lugging around of multitudes of iron lungs

[chama]

This is a tough decision. One would think with all of our technology and experience this could get done soon but obviously the problem is far more complex. If the boys remain in the cave they could be exposed to higher water and other long term health effects. Taking the boys out now with their lack of swimming experience could prove dicey. If everyone does not come out alive there will be a lot of criticism. Involving the parents in the conversation may insulate the decision makers from some criticism but also inject even more emotion into a decision making process that should be purely tactical. 

 

Good luck. Get it done.

[Derek B]

7 hours ago, HHTel said:

There's a video of the extremely narrow gap that these kids would have to go through, basically on their own:

 

From twitter:

 

 

People that can do that must have a fear gene missing..................

[RickBradford]

They don't have enough time to drain the  caves so the students can walk or wade out.

They don't have enough time to teach the kids to handle such a dangerous dive and swim.

They don't have enough time to drill an alternative exit to extract the students through.

 

I hope and pray I am wrong.

 

[Derek B]

3 hours ago, Toscano said:

TERRIFYING !!!  Even to watch the film !!!  I wouldn't even consider the risk of taking the boys through such a tight tunnel .

If my son was in there I am sure I would want the SEALS to lead my child out NOW rather than let him risk suffocation or drowning as the water rises with the rains. If they leave it too late there will not be enough time to get them all out one by one. There is a proven exit route afterall.

Edited July 6, 2018 by Derek B

[yrag]

14 hours ago, stevenl said:

I have been saying this for a few days now, why wouldn't I be serious.

 

I have not much cave diving experience, but have taught many kids diving. What is your experience?

They have no other choice as oxygen levels have fallen and once rains come could flood the small area where their at....They have to make the evacuation now by Saturday.

[yrag]

1 hour ago, Derek B said:

If my son was in there I am sure I would want the SEALS to lead my child out NOW rather than let him risk suffocation or drowning as the water rises with the rains. If they leave it too late there will not be enough time to get them all out one by one. There is a proven exit route afterall.

Agree 100% Derick...They have no other choice as oxygen levels have fallen and once rains come could flood the small area where their at....They have to make the evacuation now by Saturday.