Another change for U.S. Citizens.

[NancyL]

For those questioning my ability to report on what happens when expats try to live on the edge here, I suggest you consult the website of www.LannaCareNet.org   I assist with that group and have spent many long hours in Chiang Mai's government hospitals assisting elderly expats who are hospitalized without adequate resources to pay their bills.  I know first-hand that Suan Dok hospital, aka as Majaraj or the Chiang Mai University hospital instituted double billing for their room rates as a result of millions of baht of unpaid medical bills of foreigners.

 

I also know from many hours of helping expats with few options what can happen when expats remain here without adequate financial resources.  People die of conditions that would otherwise be treated in their home countries.  Often painfully and in squalor.  

 

I am not speaking from arrogance, but rather from compassion.  I'd like to see the need for Lanna Care Net disappear.  Just as my concerns about CM Imm aren't from arrogance, but rather from the compassion I feel when I see how their practices impact the frail, elderly and those who can least afford to use agents.

 

Recently, I was at a small meeting at the U.S. Consulate where the Ambassador honored those of us who are the core of the front line in helping Americans in Chiang Mai.  During the course of the meeting, I asked the Chiang Mai consular folks about the recent reports of Americans having to show proof of income.  They said this wasn't a requirement from the U.S. consulate/embassy, but rather something that CM Imm. seems to be doing and on a more routine basis than they have in the past.  I asked if CM Imm. is doing it for all applicants and they said they don't know, Imm. hasn't told them, they rely on reports from citizens (the same as we do here on ThaiVisa). 

 

[moontang]

well at least the ambassador realizes they sure as heck aren't at the core of helping Americans.

[NancyL]

15 minutes ago, moontang said:

well at least the ambassador realizes they sure as heck aren't at the core of helping Americans.

It's way beyond the scope of what a consular section can do to escort elderly expats to outpatient appointments at government hospitals (often an all-day exercise) to help them navigate the confusing system, talk with the doctor, understand what is being said, arrange follow-up visits, understand how to take their meds, etc.  That's just one example of what LCN members do.  

[rumak]

for those of you that love to twist and turn things around i hear there is a position open for a dance instructor at a popular restaurant.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by rumak

[LomSak27]

Nancy thanks for that post. I knew some expats ended that way. I did not know and still don’t know if that has anything to do with CM supposed threats about not allowing the affidavit. On that note, I think the only realistic way it would go is the 800K in bank. How would they vet all the different types of retirement financial options people have? I have an Indexed Mutual fund + Money Market + bonds + 3 other bank accounts?? The next person totally different. CM Immigration is not capable of understanding and vetting, and it is NOT the Embassy or Consulates job to do that.

However, there is a excellent chance this OP, is nothing more than shills plying their trade on Thai visa, to pump VISA Companies in Chiang Mai. Unfortunately, there are far too many professional trolls on Thaivisa these days. Professional = someone pays them, for a purpose. Ok enough said,  I file it away and see if it can be verified. In this case, a friend who applied at CM, used an affidavit a week after this was originally posted, it was accepted with no comment.

As for all the joys of Immigration Chiang Mai. I retained my original residence and am using the local immigration office for my Non O to Retirement. After I get my retirement I will make the move to CM.

As for this and other things I am thinking and reviewing all retirement options. I likely will spend a couple years here and then move on.

[NancyL]

1 hour ago, rumak said:

for those of you that love to twist and turn things around i hear there is a position open for a dance instructor at a popular restaurant.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, you were the one called into question my "opinion" about expats living on the edge, when in fact it's not an opinion, but a report of observations based on first-hand experiences in assisting people in trouble and often at end-of-life. 

 

All you did was open the door to some of my fan-club to come out of the weeds to bring my appearance in to question and/or state the cause of unpaid medical bills from foreigners were their dietary habits.  

[luther]

50% of US retirees rely on Social Security as their only income.

The average Social Security benefit is 1,400 dollars a month.

The average portion of Social Security income spent on healthcare is 700 dollars.

That means a lot of people are trying to live on 700 dollars per month, or less.

Unless you live in your parents' basement...oh, wait, your parents are dead.

 

I have known quite a few people who looked at Quito, Oaxaca, Panama, Vietnam, and Chiang Mai. The deciding factors were always how far their remaining money would stretch plus the quality of healthcare.

 

I have know several people who have died in Chiang Mai with less than 20,000 dollars. At least 2 of them would have been homeless if they had moved back to the US.

 

If CM immigration is pushing this change because they are in bed with visa agencies, shame on them.

If the Thai government is behind this because they don't want to foot the bill for end-of-life expenses, that is understandable, but if I put myself in the shoes of the people above, I would probably choose to lie about my income, or try to disappear and hope I wasn't deported. The real shame is on the US for not providing affordable healthcare for the elderly.

[Seligne2]

You must show a copy of your bank book that you have had 800k baht for THREE months prior to reapplication. Also, a day or two before you go to immigration, get a letter from your bank attesting to your balance(s). The bank will likely charge you 100 baht for this service.

[Dante99]

2 minutes ago, luther said:

50% of US retirees rely on Social Security as their only income.

The average Social Security benefit is 1,400 dollars a month.

The average portion of Social Security income spent on healthcare is 700 dollars.

Statistics from where?

 

For beneficiaries in Thailand?  Or USA?  Or everywhere? 

[LomSak27]

1 hour ago, Dante99 said:

1 hour ago, luther said:

50% of US retirees rely on Social Security as their only income.

The average Social Security benefit is 1,400 dollars a month.

The average portion of Social Security income spent on healthcare is 700 dollars.

Statistics from where?

 

For beneficiaries in Thailand?  Or USA?  Or everywhere? 

That's an everywhere statistic. Not specific to Expats in Thailand let alone CM.

 

 

1 hour ago, luther said:

The real shame is on the US for not providing affordable healthcare for the elderly.

Well Part II of the current administration will be to take out, and or greatly reduce both Social Security and Medicare. That's has been a conservative agenda and priority for years,  now it's attainable. So you could see it in your lifetime. Truthfully I wonder if I will get in SS, and if I do for how long. If you are depending on that for retirement .... you are already on a slippery slope, you just don't know it 

Edited August 24, 2018 by LomSak27

[moontang]

1 hour ago, LomSak27 said:

That's an everywhere statistic. Not specific to Expats in Thailand let alone CM.

 

 

Well Part II of the current administration will be to take out, and or greatly reduce both Social Security and Medicare. That's has been a conservative agenda and priority for years,  now it's attainable. So you could see it in your lifetime. Truthfully I wonder if I will get in SS, and if I do for how long. If you are depending on that for retirement .... you are already on a slippery slope, you just don't know it 

Nonsense.  The best thing that could happen to expats would be vouchers for Medicare,,,that would effectively double the incomes of many....if they gave you 700 per month for medical expenses, it would save the taxpayers about 500, because they currently spend about 12....You can't show me one liberal that supports anything like that, at all.  Those with Tricare are already able to use it here, so it really isn't far fetched.  Also, Singapore, Canada, Norway, and Japan all have sovereign wealth funds...yet, the US refuses to invest one penny.  Another thing the Left refuses to deal with.  Even without your employers contribution, your own deductions in an index fund would give you dramatically more money.

[LomSak27]

Just now, moontang said:

Nonsense.  The best thing that could happen to expats would be vouchers for Medicare,,,that would effectively double the incomes of many....if they gave you 700 per month for medical expenses, it would save the taxpayers about 500, because they currently spend about 12....You can't show me one liberal that supports anything like that, at all.  Those with Tricare are already able to use it here, so it really isn't far fetched.  Also, Singapore, Canada, Norway, and Japan all have sovereign wealth funds...yet, the US refuses to invest one penny.  Another thing the Left refuses to deal with.  Even without your employers contribution, your own deductions in an index fund would give you dramatically more money.

Looks like its coming out your ears now, but hey why not,  some sap might believe you    

[moontang]

16 minutes ago, LomSak27 said:

Looks like its coming out your ears now, but hey why not,  some sap might believe you    

yes, Teachers, Firemen,policemen should all make 100K per year, free college for everyone, free healthcare for everyone, significant raise for SS recipients (including the millions below retirement age), subsidized electric cars, and open borders....and people actually wonder why you see westerners fooled by Thai women or those pretending to be Thai women?  

[cmsally]

Some personal remarks and off topic posts have been removed.

[ozmeldo]

Not having to show proof of income was a gift. Stop complaining.

 

Well, looks like another boatload of farang going to be leaving shortly when they can't produce the documents. Next time they enter the country they'll be arrested and deported for lying and fraud 555

[NancyL]

Moontang has a point and I welcome his contrarian point of view. 

[moe666]

16 hours ago, moontang said:

Nonsense.  The best thing that could happen to expats would be vouchers for Medicare,,,that would effectively double the incomes of many....if they gave you 700 per month for medical expenses, it would save the taxpayers about 500, because they currently spend about 12....You can't show me one liberal that supports anything like that, at all.  Those with Tricare are already able to use it here, so it really isn't far fetched.  Also, Singapore, Canada, Norway, and Japan all have sovereign wealth funds...yet, the US refuses to invest one penny.  Another thing the Left refuses to deal with.  Even without your employers contribution, your own deductions in an index fund would give you dramatically more money.

show me a Repukian who even supports you getting SS. You are rambling. At present you cannot use your Medicare out side of the US.

[elektrified]

On 8/23/2018 at 5:24 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I've never been asked to fill out a TM 30 form by Immigration after MANY years of living in BKK and reporting to BKK Immigration.  But I know it's different elsewhere.

 

I've never been asked either.

[moontang]

1 hour ago, moe666 said:

show me a Repukian who even supports you getting SS. You are rambling. At present you cannot use your Medicare out side of the US.

The majority of my family are Republicans and every single person believes those that paid into FICA, deserve every single penny, and would also prefer it being wisely invested to enhance payouts.  ....I never stated you could use Medicare outside, and I offered a win-win solution that a conservative introduced, that would change that.

[amexpat]

On 8/24/2018 at 5:39 PM, moontang said:

yes, Teachers, Firemen,policemen should all make 100K per year, free college for everyone, free healthcare for everyone, significant raise for SS recipients (including the millions below retirement age), subsidized electric cars, and open borders....and people actually wonder why you see westerners fooled by Thai women or those pretending to be Thai women?  

It's good that you are staying on the topic of income verification requirement.

 

Otherwise your posts could be removed like mine. 

 

Edited August 25, 2018 by amexpat

[EricTh]

On 7/11/2018 at 11:40 AM, Captain_Bob said:

Non-O retirement visa based on affidavit pretending to have fake money was doomed sooner or later. Just a matter of time until the next "crackdown". 

Wow! 

 

I didn't know that Americans can show proof of enough money just by getting an affidavit?

 

No wonder there are so many (ahem broke) Americans living in Thailand.

 

I am glad they plugged the loophole, it's just not fair to other nationalities.

 

Edited August 26, 2018 by EricTh

[Dante99]

1 hour ago, EricTh said:

I didn't know that Americans can show proof of enough money just by getting an affidavit?

No, that is not possible with an affidavit from the Chiang Mai US Consul.

[amexpat]

2 hours ago, EricTh said:

I am glad they plugged the loophole, it's just not fair to other nationalities.

 

Of course, if you can't make things better for yourself, it's nice to make things worse for other people.

 

At least that's how some people think. 

[earlinclaifornia]

16 hours ago, EricTh said:

Wow! 

 

I didn't know that Americans can show proof of enough money just by getting an affidavit?

 

No wonder there are so many (ahem broke) Americans living in Thailand.

 

I am glad they plugged the loophole, it's just not fair to other nationalities.

 

By signing the affidavit by law your any falsehood could be prosecuted. I was sad that they did not look at my proof statement from the SSA.

[NancyL]

Have there been any reports of anyone actually being refused a retirement extension by Immigration because they couldn't come up with suitable documentation to back up their Income letter?

 

So far, it just seems like several of the visa agents are telling their clients to bring proof.  But, I don't know what they tell clients who tell them they can't.  One can speculate, of course.

[jmd8800]

1 hour ago, NancyL said:

Have there been any reports of anyone actually being refused a retirement extension by Immigration because they couldn't come up with suitable documentation to back up their Income letter?

 

So far, it just seems like several of the visa agents are telling their clients to bring proof.  But, I don't know what they tell clients who tell them they can't.  One can speculate, of course.

That is exactly what I've been asking. So far I have not see anything specific.

 

 

[NancyL]

2 hours ago, NancyL said:

Have there been any reports of anyone actually being refused a retirement extension by Immigration because they couldn't come up with suitable documentation to back up their Income letter?

 

So far, it just seems like several of the visa agents are telling their clients to bring proof.  But, I don't know what they tell clients who tell them they can't.  One can speculate, of course.

 

30 minutes ago, jmd8800 said:

That is exactly what I've been asking. So far I have not see anything specific.

 

 

I have heard several first hand accounts of people who were asked for proof by Immigration officers and their proof was studied and returned to them, but no accounts of people who had less-than-satisfactory proof.  Also, the documents used for proof were varied -- income tax returns, with 1099s, statements from pension providers, bank records, etc.

[jmd8800]

7 hours ago, NancyL said:

 

I have heard several first hand accounts of people who were asked for proof by Immigration officers and their proof was studied and returned to them, but no accounts of people who had less-than-satisfactory proof.  Also, the documents used for proof were varied -- income tax returns, with 1099s, statements from pension providers, bank records, etc.

I'll take your word for this. I have not spoken to anyone who was asked. 

[EricTh]

14 hours ago, earlinclaifornia said:

By signing the affidavit by law your any falsehood could be prosecuted. 

Yeah, so how many got hauled to court in Thailand for lying?

 

Practically none or it will be in the news.

Edited August 27, 2018 by EricTh

[bubba]

I was speaking with an American friend yesterday who said his visa consultant (didn't ask who it was) phoned to tell him that he would need supporting documents in addition to his Consulate affidavit for his upcoming retirement extension.