Another change for U.S. Citizens.

[Kelsall]

I'm late to the party but am curious what non-Americans have to do.  Do they have to submit an embassy letter and financial documentation to immigration, or do they submit their financial documentation to their embassy and the embassy then certifies the amount?  Or something else?

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, Kelsall said:

I'm late to the party but am curious what non-Americans have to do.  Do they have to submit an embassy letter and financial documentation to immigration, or do they submit their financial documentation to their embassy and the embassy then certifies the amount?  Or something else?

Most other nationalities are required to submit evidence of income claimed to their embassy or consulate to get the income letter. Immigration is aware that some nationalities don't including Americans so their letters might be seen as having less credibility. Generally immigration accepts all letters without further evidence needed. But there are occasional "crackdowns" but they don't seem to last which may or may not target specific nationalities. The thing to always keep in mind is that immigration has every legal right for any reason to demand further evidence of any documentation that you submit which should be incentive to people to be honest and not to make fraudulent claims. 

[Kelsall]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Most other nationalities are required to submit evidence of income claimed to their embassy or consulate to get the income letter. Immigration is aware that some nationalities don't including Americans so their letters might be seen as having less credibility. Generally immigration accepts all letters without further evidence needed. But there are occasional "crackdowns" but they don't seem to last which may or may not target specific nationalities. The thing to always keep in mind is that immigration has every legal right for any reason to demand further evidence of any documentation that you submit which should be incentive to people to be honest and not to make fraudulent claims. 

Thanks. Good write up. Now one thing I do know is that the US Consulate also has every right to require proof that what you're swearing to is indeed true.  From the US Embassy Bangkok website: 

Refusal of Notarial Services
Please be aware that a consular officer may refuse any notary service when:

    The document will be used in transactions that may be prohibited by U.S. law, treaty or foreign law;
    The host country does not authorize the performance of the service;
    The document is blank or incomplete;
    The officer believes that the document is suspicious, potentially illegal, or detrimental to the best interests of the United States;
    The officer does not understand the document, due to language or any other reason;

Edited August 28, 2018 by Kelsall

[Jingthing]

Thanks. Good write up. Now one thing I do know is that the US Consulate also has every right to require proof that what you're swearing to is indeed true.  From the US Embassy Bangkok website: 
Refusal of Notarial Services
Please be aware that a consular officer may refuse any notary service when:
    The document will be used in transactions that may be prohibited by U.S. law, treaty or foreign law;
    The host country does not authorize the performance of the service;
    The document is blank or incomplete;
    The officer believes that the document is suspicious, potentially illegal, or detrimental to the best interests of the United States;
    The officer does not understand the document, due to language or any other reason;

Well in this context that's not particularly relevant.

For the income letter you put down the number and swear you're being truthful.

There is no grounds to reject anyone doing that except failure to pay the fee.

Of course it would be an offense of some kind to fraudulently swear but let's get real some people do.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Scott]

Inflammatory posts and replies removed.  

 

[Lacessit]

17 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Most other nationalities are required to submit evidence of income claimed to their embassy or consulate to get the income letter. Immigration is aware that some nationalities don't including Americans so their letters might be seen as having less credibility. Generally immigration accepts all letters without further evidence needed. But there are occasional "crackdowns" but they don't seem to last which may or may not target specific nationalities. The thing to always keep in mind is that immigration has every legal right for any reason to demand further evidence of any documentation that you submit which should be incentive to people to be honest and not to make fraudulent claims. 

Not true for Australians AFAIK. I rolled up last year armed with my tax return to get the statutory declaration signed and stamped, and the Consulate officer didn't even glance at it.

It is a criminal offence in Australia to make a false statutory declaration, so maybe Thai Immigration is aware of this.

[chingmai331]

To tell the truth, i always go to Immig for my retirement extension well dressed, looking smart and secure in the world. No sense giving the Immig workers any belief that i am not a rich American.  No short pants, clean pressed shirt, haircut, no tattoos showing, and always a pleasant honest smile.

[Bill97]

To tell the truth, i always go to Immig for my retirement extension well dressed, looking smart and secure in the world. No sense giving the Immig workers any belief that i am not a rich American.  No short pants, clean pressed shirt, haircut, no tattoos showing, and always a pleasant honest smile.

Don't forget your Boy Scout pin.


Sent from my iPod touch using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[rumak]

On 8/23/2018 at 5:50 PM, Dante99 said:

Right on Runoi.   It is not failure to plan for retirement it is fat people.  So so true, overweight people are causing the problems.  Oh no, Nancy would not be a pound or too heavy would she?

you still crying because i can actually think of something interesting to say instead of being a deadhead like you?

stalking is for nut cases......you are now first on my ignored list.   get a life...dude

[elephant45]

I was told at the visa agent that the sum of my retirement plus the remainder must be show as proof. Say I get 1000usd a month = 12,000 then I have to show the rest of the 800,000 (equivalent)baht in my Thai bank account for 4 months before application. i just renewed mine so next July is a long way off. I think the Chinese influence is affecting this, and have a gut feeling we may someday not be welcome.

[Spaniel]

On 7/11/2018 at 4:14 PM, rwill said:

10 minutes ago, elephant45 said:

I was told at the visa agent that the sum of my retirement plus the remainder must be show as proof. Say I get 1000usd a month = 12,000 then I have to show the rest of the 800,000 (equivalent)baht in my Thai bank account for 4 months before application. i just renewed mine so next July is a long way off. I think the Chinese influence is affecting this, and have a gut feeling we may someday not be welcome.

 

What rate are you using?    At 32.6, roughly todays rate, that would be B 32,600.

[1happykamper]

Being honest, if you can't have parked 800, 000THB for an extension based upon your retirement, or 400,000THB for extension based upon marriage you really have failed.

What a pompous accusation! Failed? Being honest.. you sound very arrogant.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[elephant45]

I'm not referring to monthly, I mean have the rest in a Thai bank account. To make up for the adjustment. Whoever said anything about having ample retirement. there are many not so good situations for many people in their 60's in the states, homelessness, no medical insurance, maybe and accident etc. I lost a 401k overnight, plus my wife took my house and my kid and got remarried to a white guy with a Spanish last name (smart). Had to pay for my daughter all the way through college, with out even knowing her any more etc. Many different situations out there but the USA does not take very good care of older people.

[amexpat]

55 minutes ago, elephant45 said:

white guy with a Spanish last name (smart).

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

 

[happyme]

On 7/11/2018 at 3:58 PM, jeffandgop said:

And how do you know that bank statements are sufficient? which bank? Thai bank? US bank?  Any offshore bank?  How many months of statements?  Any certifications of bank statements?  What other documents? Tax returns? Income provider letters or statements?  How long do any documents maintain validity before being provided to CM IMM?

It is a big deal for many who need that extension of stay and whose approval may depend on documents that must be asked for or prepared well before applying or otherwise it may be too late. 

The requirement is not expressed as “just have a sufficient monthly income”. It’s 65K baht of income per month. The requirements to prove it should be just as clear. 

It has to be in a Thai Bank 

 

[NaamGin]

On 7/14/2018 at 4:29 PM, poanoi said:

yes, i know that one,

was just wondering if there is any solution that doesnt add

some 15.000 baht per year and visa

I use "that" visa agent also for my annual renewal and for 4 - 90 day reports. Total cost is around 4k baht for the agent cost. 

[NaamGin]

On 7/12/2018 at 2:03 PM, JLCrab said:

The regs only say 'evidence' of 65K per month -- nothing about an income affidavit from your country's Embassy.

 

This is the key. No need for discussion as to where your income comes from, how it gets into Thailand or who has / has not affirmed the transactions. All IMM is looking for is a bank balance of 800,000k seasoned for 3 months for annual consideration -or- the equivalent of 65k per month of income, preferably deposited into a Thai bank account. If you have a bank book denoting either of the above requirements, then there is no need to waste your time or money getting an affidavit from the US Consulate. 

 

On another note, I use Assist Thai Visa to handle my annual renewals and 90 day reporting as I cannot be assed with the task. I received an email from them just this week advising that proof of income at CNX IMM is the new SOP if using an affidavit from the US Consulate. Looks like CNX IMM has finally caught onto the ruse.  

[Paul Catton]

12 hours ago, 1happykamper said:

What a pompous accusation! Failed? Being honest.. you sound very arrogant.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Don't think that I'm being arrogant but if that's what you perceive, I can only apologise.

I don't believe that 400k for marriage or 800K for retirement are onerously huge sums of capital to park, securing ones annual extensions.

If it is to be found that it is, too challenging, I would say there has been a failure in planning and due diligence.

[bubba]

I accept that this is the law and planning is necessary to comply in order to renew a retirement extension; however, I can understand why many would prefer not typing up 800,000 baht in a zero yield savings account with currency risks when that sum could be invested back home and making either real earnings or capital gains.

[bubba]

So here's a question: what happens to all those Americans who have been cruising along on their Consulate affidavit, cannot prove either the income or Thai bank balance seasoned for two months and their extension runs out next month? It is too late to do a deposit now due to the two month requirement. Are they out?

 

If so, this could be very bad news for a lot of people who have been here for a long time.

[amexpat]

35 minutes ago, bubba said:

So here's a question: what happens to all those Americans who have been cruising along on their Consulate affidavit, cannot prove either the income or Thai bank balance seasoned for two months and their extension runs out next month? It is too late to do a deposit now due to the two month requirement. Are they out?

 

If so, this could be very bad news for a lot of people who have been here for a long time.

 

As shown at the top of the page: 

 

Easy Thai Retirement Visa

No funds needed, No visa, no fee. We do everything; no stress or  worry.   I think it costs about 20K which should make an i-o very happy.

[bubba]

14 minutes ago, amexpat said:

 

As shown at the top of the page: 

 

Easy Thai Retirement Visa

No funds needed, No visa, no fee. We do everything; no stress or  worry.   I think it costs about 20K which should make an i-o very happy.

 

Yes but unless they can time warp at the bank, providing the necessary funds in the person's bank account is not going to help if they have to renew next month, since the funds must have been seasoned for two months.

Edited August 31, 2018 by bubba
Spell correct

[Dante99]

1 hour ago, bubba said:

So here's a question: what happens to all those Americans who have been cruising along on their Consulate affidavit, cannot prove either the income or Thai bank balance seasoned for two months and their extension runs out next month? It is too late to do a deposit now due to the two month requirement. Are they out?

 

If so, this could be very bad news for a lot of people who have been here for a long time.

I do not think there has been confirmation that CM Immigration is checking proof of income for extension renewals, is there?  Has it been only for first timers?  There seem to be reports of recent renewals without proof required.  Correct?

[bubba]

11 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

I do not think there has been confirmation that CM Immigration is checking proof of income for extension renewals, is there?  Has it been only for first timers?  There seem to be reports of recent renewals without proof required.  Correct?

It has been reported by a few people here, and they were using an agent. Also, I do have an American friend who was informed by his agent that he would need to bring documents together with his Consulate affidavit for a fourth year renewal. No problem for him since he said he can show adequate income from his US social security deposits to his Thai bank; however, I think this may not be the case for a lot of Americans who relied on their affidavit, do not have the seasoned deposit and cannot show proof of income into Thailand.

Edited August 31, 2018 by bubba

[amexpat]

57 minutes ago, bubba said:

 

Yes but unless they can time warp at the bank, providing the necessary funds in the person's bank account is not going to help if they have to renew next month, since the funds must have been seasoned for two months.

This is Thailand

 

[Dante99]

26 minutes ago, bubba said:

It has been reported by a few people here, and they were using an agent. Also, I do have an American friend who was informed by his agent that he would need to bring documents together with his Consulate affidavit for a fourth year renewal. No problem for him since he said he can show adequate income from his US social security deposits to his Thai bank; however, I think this may not be the case for a lot of Americans who relied on their affidavit, do not have the seasoned deposit and cannot show proof of income into Thailand.

At least some of those reports are unclear whether it is the Agent or Immigration that is asking for documentation of income.  Seems to me like the agents are pushing it to cover themselves just in case Immigration happens to ask for it.  I will buy it when there are a slew of reports that Immigration is asking for it for renewals. Certainly there have been reports of recent extensions without proof required.

 

Who says that there needs to be proof of income into Thailand?

[jmd8800]

6 hours ago, Dante99 said:

I do not think there has been confirmation that CM Immigration is checking proof of income for extension renewals, is there?  Has it been only for first timers?  There seem to be reports of recent renewals without proof required.  Correct?

That is what I thought until a few days ago. NancyL mentioned that Immigration has asked people applying for extensions for proof, though no one had been turned down.

 

Yesterday a friend told me he went to immigration with the income affidavit only (nothing for proof) as he always does and they would not give him a number. So in this case, the screening was at the front door. I'd guess if you had something to show at the door you'd get a number and once inside the IO would have the ability to determine validity.

 

I think the days of bringing a note from your Mom and 3000thb might be over for some. It would have been nice to get a better advance notice so those who have the money in US bank accounts had time to transfer the funds in time but that didn't happen.

[NancyL]

8 minutes ago, jmd8800 said:

That is what I thought until a few days ago. NancyL mentioned that Immigration has asked people applying for extensions for proof, though no one had been turned down.

 

Yesterday a friend told me he went to immigration with the income affidavit only (nothing for proof) as he always does and they would not give him a number. So in this case, the screening was at the front door. I'd guess if you had something to show at the door you'd get a number and once inside the IO would have the ability to determine validity.

 

I think the days of bringing a note from your Mom and 3000thb might be over for some. It would have been nice to get a better advance notice so those who have the money in US bank accounts had time to transfer the funds in time but that didn't happen.

This is indeed news.  Your friend wasn't turned down, per se, just told to come back with his documents in order, as if he was using the bank account method and didn't have an up-to-date letter from the bank or had some other minor glitch.  I don't know what people who really are swearing a false oath are going to do.  Maybe obtain other false documents.  As we all know, where there is an unmet need in the marketplace, suppliers come in to meet the need.  

[jmd8800]

1 minute ago, NancyL said:

This is indeed news.  Your friend wasn't turned down, per se, just told to come back with his documents in order, as if he was using the bank account method and didn't have an up-to-date letter from the bank or had some other minor glitch.  I don't know what people who really are swearing a false oath are going to do.  Maybe obtain other false documents.  As we all know, where there is an unmet need in the marketplace, suppliers come in to meet the need.  

Right... he was not denied an extension. He was denied the ability to apply for extension because his paperwork was 'incomplete'. He has until the due date to come up with completed paperwork or a different plan.

 

This kind of rules out the comments about dressing nice etc.

[pizzachang]

It should be a simple matter to show 3 months (or more) of bank statements as income verification. My bank's electronic banking services include the option to show only deposits. That way you keep your business private. What I'm wondering is, will the affidavit from the US Consulate be required if we just show the bank statements? My bank's deposit line clearly shows where the money originated, e.g. SSA or DRB. By the way, I was asked to produce further documentation in June for non-O extension, but they weren't too particular. An odd comment by one of the officers was: " Why do Americans get so much pension? "