Terror at Railay Beach in Krabi - foreign tourists taken hostage as shots fired

[transam]

36 minutes ago, BigC said:

Do you feel luck.... punk????

Not one handed....?

[bristolgeoff]

if you know anything about thailand they do have guns at home.if they are upset or mau they may use them too.it could happen anywhere in the LOS.

[Somchai Logic]

I searched for this on the TAT website. Would you believe no mention of it 

[happy chappie]

19 hours ago, RT555 said:

A 357 cartridge would penetrate 12 cans of SPAM, while a 38 cartridge would maybe go through 5 or 6 cans of SPAM. 

 

What about corned beef? ????

[happy chappie]

It's just a thought but wouldn't it be easy to drug test these people before giving them a gun license.

[Wake Up]

9 hours ago, German farang said:

Hi "Wake Up", where do you got your special kind of balistic professionalism from?  You maybe should wake up... ??????

You ever own any guns or shoot them? Not rocket science if you are familiar with guns. 

[transam]

19 minutes ago, happy chappie said:

It's just a thought but wouldn't it be easy to drug test these people before giving them a gun license.

Or a car....

[HAKAPALITA]

So i ask locally what about the GUN Thing, no one knows or cares, so nothing changes, they dont give a rats bum about the Drowned Chinese Tourists, they spend nothing anyway seems to be the general attitude round here.Now the  Thai Kids in the Cave Rescue is still a hot topic. If only our own Nations put their Etnics first many of us wouldnt be here.  

[radiochaser]

21 hours ago, 55Jay said:

Have you ever been robbed at gunpoint or otherwise threatened directly with a firearm in the US?  Edit: Or here in Thailand?

At knife point, by a 12 year old kid.  

A drunk 12 year old kid!

I gave him my money too!

 

Edited July 12, 2018 by radiochaser

[55Jay]

21 hours ago, RT555 said:

A 357 cartridge would penetrate 12 cans of SPAM, while a 38 cartridge would maybe go through 5 or 6 cans of SPAM. 

 

I witnessed a 9mm round bounce off a big male boar on the island of Guam.  That's pretty close to SPAM, but a lot faster, and meaner.    

 

 

[off road pat]

On 7/11/2018 at 6:33 AM, hansnl said:

It's not a big weapon, also.

It's just a revolver, suitable to fire .357 and .38, which is around 9 mm.

.38 about the same power as a 9mm, .357 more powerful.

But only 6 cartridges in the weapon.

 

 

More than enough to make a lot of damage !!! or end at least 6 lives ..!?!?

[ttrd]

8 hours ago, transam said:

I had a .357 mag Colt King Cobra and a .44 mag Smith & Wesson Classic Hunter, both 6" barrels, no l didn't go hunting, just range stuff.

Must confess I could hit sod all with full mag loads, so l did my own bullet assembly to find a happy medium for target shooting and power loads for a bit of fun..

 

For sure with mag loads there was none of that one handed Dirty Harry stuff, the kick from the .44 was more intense than the .357...

 

PS. I am English and was licensed to own them.. 

RE - PS. I am English and was licensed to own them..

 

….me too, until one day I was in the bank to perform a simple deposit. Unfortunately the money and the gun happened to be in the same pocket with the gun on the top….

[HAKAPALITA]

Later i resigned from the SAS and joined 3rd Para.[emoji572]️


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Essaybloke]

21 hours ago, flyingtlger said:

Thanks, essaybloke...you sound like a real Tosser.....

Thanks- and with a capital 'T' also!  Respect back at you bloke!  Yes I am quite a nice guy really. Just can't stand all those unchallenged ridiculous supernatural claims. 

[The Deerhunter]

14 hours ago, Kerryd said:

I was going to mention the same thing (more or less). Arrival numbers can be a bit deceiving as they are not an indicator of "spending". A minibus with a few tourists that spend like drunken sailors may be more beneficial to local businesses than a double-decker tour busload of tourists that don't spend a baht.

While I saw a T.A.T. article awhile ago that claimed that Chinese tourists were spending more than other nationalities, it doesn't seem to pan out in most places. Maybe some high end tourists are blowing big money at HiSo shops in Bangkok (and buying gold) and skewing the "spending graph", but it seems in the more touristy places (like Pattaya/Phuket) they are spending next to nothing.

I know a number of business owners in Pattaya that own hotels, restaurants and bars. Over the last 10 years they all say their business is down, despite the streets being full of people. Lots of "arrivals" but not a lot of "spending".

The demographic has changed, significantly, as T.A.T. has targeted different countries for tourism, like Russia, India and China. At one time it was almost unusual to see an Indian on Walking Street (unless he was trying to lure you into a clothing shop) now there are times when it looks like downtown Delhi (and yes, I've been to Delhi a couple of times).

Same for the Asian tour groups. 10 years ago, seeing an Asian tour group following the guide with a flag or balloon on a stick was something of an oddity. Nowadays it's so common it doesn't bear a second glance.

The Russians flooded into Thailand for awhile after they changed the visa rules, but then the ruble took a dump and it seems their numbers also went down. Not sure how much they were spending but there were enough of them that their presence was noticeable.

10 years ago, Walking Street was crammed with tourists who appeared to be mostly from "Western" countries (i.e. Caucasians). My friends were making money hand over fist, and spending the same way. Their staff were also making a lot more and spending a lot more (the "trickle down effect"). One motorcycle club had about 30 members who were all business owners and all had Harleys. Now I think they have 3 guys left that still own a Harley. (Luxury items are the first to go when times get hard.)
One guy had 2 go-go bars and 4 "beer bars" on Walking Street. He's down to one beer bar now, having sold the others (or gave up the leases). Another had a couple of restaurants, he's down to one. Another had a bar and a motorcycle shop. He's down to skimping by doing repair work in the bottom of his shop house.

Why ? Because all those "new" tourists aren't spending anywhere near what the "Westerners" were. So while places like Walking Street still seem crowded, the business on there apparently are not making the money they used to. I imagine it's the same in Phuket and other areas that are heavily reliant on tourism.

But the original point was - minor events like the one in the original post are not going to have any impact on tourism. Even a major event like the Tsunami in '04 and the (last) coup in 2014 had only a minor effect on the tourism numbers and that drop disappeared within a year of the event as people flocked back to Thailand.
Frik - it seems that 2 out of every 3 stories involving tourists in Thailand, happens in Phuket. (The 3rd story may be about something in Pattaya one week, or Samui another week.)
Doesn't seem to have affected the number of people still going there though. 

Every graph I've looked at over the past hour shows the same thing. A dip in tourism in 2004 and 2009 with the numbers rebounding even higher the following year. If a Tsunami and a Coup (or 2) isn't enough to scare people away for long, it would take a lot more than a druggie with a gun to wreck the industry.

 

 

Yeah well, those columns of people following the guides with the flags that I saw in Walking Street didn't  seem to have much time to stop and spend any money.

  Too damn busy running, to keep up with the flag holder.  Those tourists pay to see places but do not have time to experience them.  Must catch the bus for the next organised Chinese meal or Indian owned souvenir shop.

Edited July 12, 2018 by The Deerhunter

[sambum]

15 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

Yeah well, those columns of people following the guides with the flags that I saw in Walking Street didn't  seem to have much time to stop and spend any money.

  Too damn busy running, to keep up with the flag holder.  Those tourists pay to see places but do not have time to experience them.  Must catch the bus for the next organised Chinese meal or Indian owned souvenir shop.

I think that's exactly what Kerryd is saying!

 

But what he omitted to mention (from a good post) is that  when I first came to Thailand as a tourist many years ago, the Exchange Rate was  73 baht for one British pound - now I get just over 40 baht. (And don't blame Brexit - it has been falling steadily for  a few years now) And some other "farang" currencies have also seen a sharp drop, which means that people from those nations do not have the same amount of money to spend as they did, hence the quiet bars and restaurants in the tourist areas. 

[Kerryd]

8 hours ago, sambum said:

I think that's exactly what Kerryd is saying!

 

But what he omitted to mention (from a good post) is that  when I first came to Thailand as a tourist many years ago, the Exchange Rate was  73 baht for one British pound - now I get just over 40 baht. (And don't blame Brexit - it has been falling steadily for  a few years now) And some other "farang" currencies have also seen a sharp drop, which means that people from those nations do not have the same amount of money to spend as they did, hence the quiet bars and restaurants in the tourist areas. 

I'm not sure the exchange rate has too much to do with "first time" tourists as they probably don't have a clue what the rates are to begin with (current or previous). When I travel I never make decisions based on the currency rate as it is (usually) wildly different from country to country anyways. 
I think the exchange rate mostly affects "long-term" visitors as many of them are living on pensions. 

Maybe also for  "returning" tourists who know the costs and have seen the exchange rates. I could see them having second thoughts about making another trip or choosing a different destination. My very first trip (back in Feb '93), I went from Croatia to Frankfurt to Bangkok. Sat beside 2 German guys (who were heading to Manila) on the Frankfurt-Bangkok leg of the trip.  I told them I was going to Thailand, first time ever, knew nothing about the place.
They told me they used to go there but preferred the Philippines because it was cheaper.

I had no idea of how expensive Thailand was compared to anywhere else. I do remember buying 5 t-shirts for 100 baht and that worked out to $5 Canadian (so 20 baht/dollar roughly).

(We soared all the way up to around 32 baht to the dollar for a brief spell after the Conservatives got into power but have sunk back to about 25/26 unfortunately and with the Liberals in charge again I suspect we'll drop even further.)

Funny, there was another article that just came out where the headline was "An Onslaught of Tourists Is Stressing Out Thailand" and it mentions how they think "Arrivals" will break 40 million next year and how even the tragedy of the Chinese who died in that boating incident hasn't had a significant impact on Chinese enthusiasm for holidays.

One has to take that statement with a grain of salt though as the tragedy only happened a couple of weeks ago and I doubt there has been time to measure any impact it may have on tourism (unless there was a significant number of cancellations immediately following the news).

 

Of course, that is the same article where the Tourism Minister blames Thailand's pollution problems on tourists as well so you really have to wonder.

If you think back to the Tsunami in 2004, there was a significant drop in overall Arrival numbers after that, but most of that "drop" was probably people who had planned on going specifically to Phuket and had to cancel (for obvious reasons) and chose not to go to another location in Thailand instead.
If one dug deep enough and looked at estimated arrivals in Pattaya/Bangkok/Chiang Mai during the same period, they may notice that the number of tourists travelling to those destinations didn't drop very much (if at all).
Also, think about all the political unrest that Thailand was going through (pre-last coup). PAD taking over the airport in Bangkok in 2008 was big news, as well as the bombings and shootings that were happening in the city. 

Tourism numbers dropped in 2009 as a result, as people opted for "safer" destinations. Since then though, the numbers have been climbing steadily. A lot of people whine about the military government but they have brought a lot of peace and stability to the country which is being reflected in the record numbers of tourists arriving.

So major events like Tsunamis, airport "take-overs" and violent political unrest can have a noticeable effect on tourism numbers, smaller events like 2 Brits being murdered in Koh Tao, 36 Chinese drowning in a boating incident or a drug addict "taking hostages" apparently don't even cause a minor dip in the numbers, let alone "risk an already fragile" industry.

 

Lol - I remember when they opened Suvarnabhumi in 2006 and they said they'd built it on the estimated number of arrivals expected over the next 10 years with the intent that (if need be) they could then expand it to accommodate even more.

Within what, 2 years, they'd already reached what they thought would be their peak capability and had to start planning the first expansion nearly 8 years earlier than anticipated. Remember how a lot of smaller airlines and domestic flights had to go back to using Don Muang until they could complete the 1st expansion ?

In 2011 they announced the speed up of the second expansion, expecting it to be completed in 2016. 
They apparently started the 3rd Expansion phase last year, barely 11 years after the airport opened. Originally they had anticipated that this is about the time they'd need to do the 1st Expansion.
Another indicator that the tourism industry is not in any immediate danger of collapsing.

In fact, according to that recent Bloomberg article, Tourism now makes up 20% of Thailand's economy.
A few years ago people were making wild claims that it was the "expat" community that was responsible for most of Thailand's "tourism" income. I looked up some figures and did some math which clearly showed that the "expats" represented a very tiny percentage of the overall "tourism" economy and if I recall correctly, at the time, Tourism only made up about 12% of Thailand's total economy.
Just another indicator of how fast tourism is increasing in Thailand.

Unfortunately, it seems that local businesses (and their staff) are not benefiting from this boom like you'd think they should be.  

(Can we go back to talking about big guns now ?)

ps: I haven't seen any mention of this incident (the original story in this thread for those who've forgotten what this thread was about originally) anywhere else in the media (i.e. MSN.com, Rueters, APP, BBC, Al Jazeera, etc). 

So I would seriously doubt that it will have the slighest affect on tourism in Phuket, let alone Thailand.

 

Something else to think about. How many crimes do you hear about happening everyday in Amsterdam ? Manila ? Las Vegas ? Hawaii ? Rio de Janeiro ?

Crimes happen daily in those places as well, but the vast majority of the news never makes the international media. The same way relatively minor incidents that happen in Thailand don't normally make international news as well.

As a result, those incidents have a negligible impact on tourism. They seem significant to people that live in those areas though, because those people (like you) pay more attention to events that happen in "your" area or areas that are of interest to you.

How many of you follow the events happening in Afghanistan right now ?
Probably few (if any). But when I see an article about Afghanistan I take notice because that area is of interest to me. I'm not working there any more, don't know anyone who still is working there, may never go there again (sadly), but I did spend 10 years of my life working there so when something pops up in the news about the place, I tend to notice it.

It is the same with people who live in Thailand. When an article pops up about Phuket, people who live there tend to pay more attention to it than to an article about a place they've never been to or have any connection to. People in their home countries that have been to Phuket will be more likely to look at a news article about the place than people who have no clue where that place even is.

And what kind of news usually makes the media ? Bad news. Murders, robberies, rapes, suicides, accidents. Even if it doesn't make the international media, it makes up a lot of the local media. This tends to skew one's perception of the news as what you (normally) see in the local "English" media is news concerning "foreigners". You aren't reading/watching the Thai news so you aren't as aware of everything else going on. That makes it seem like all the news involves foreigners and most of that news is bad (aside from the occasional Cave Rescue stories that is).

I'll bet if you went to Manila, Amsterdam, Rio (etc, etc) and lived (more or less) like you do here (in Thailand), it wouldn't take long for you to think about those places the same as some of you think about whatever place you live in now, be that Pattaya, Phuket, Bangkok or wherever. You'd be noticing news (in your language) about things happening in the area around you and most of that news would probably be of the "bad" sort and soon enough it would seem like every bad incident that happens involves foreigners and everyone is out to get you.

 

Just remember, you are not paranoid if you think everyone is out to get you, when everyone really is out to get you !

(Did I really just spend an hour typing that wall of text ? Another indicator that I'm retired and have nothing better to do on a Friday morning in this fine weather !)

[transam]

Think the continuing LOS bad press may be taking it's toll...

[German farang]

On 7/12/2018 at 12:08 PM, Wake Up said:

You ever own any guns or shoot them? Not rocket science if you are familiar with guns. 

Guns are a part of my job, yeah - that's the reason for my comment ??

[sambum]

9 hours ago, Kerryd said:

I'm not sure the exchange rate has too much to do with "first time" tourists as they probably don't have a clue what the rates are to begin with (current or previous). When I travel I never make decisions based on the currency rate as it is (usually) wildly different from country to country anyways. 
I think the exchange rate mostly affects "long-term" visitors as many of them are living on pensions. 

Maybe also for  "returning" tourists who know the costs and have seen the exchange rates. I could see them having second thoughts about making another trip or choosing a different destination. My very first trip (back in Feb '93), I went from Croatia to Frankfurt to Bangkok. Sat beside 2 German guys (who were heading to Manila) on the Frankfurt-Bangkok leg of the trip.  I told them I was going to Thailand, first time ever, knew nothing about the place.
They told me they used to go there but preferred the Philippines because it was cheaper.

I had no idea of how expensive Thailand was compared to anywhere else. I do remember buying 5 t-shirts for 100 baht and that worked out to $5 Canadian (so 20 baht/dollar roughly).

(We soared all the way up to around 32 baht to the dollar for a brief spell after the Conservatives got into power but have sunk back to about 25/26 unfortunately and with the Liberals in charge again I suspect we'll drop even further.)

Funny, there was another article that just came out where the headline was "An Onslaught of Tourists Is Stressing Out Thailand" and it mentions how they think "Arrivals" will break 40 million next year and how even the tragedy of the Chinese who died in that boating incident hasn't had a significant impact on Chinese enthusiasm for holidays.

One has to take that statement with a grain of salt though as the tragedy only happened a couple of weeks ago and I doubt there has been time to measure any impact it may have on tourism (unless there was a significant number of cancellations immediately following the news).

 

Of course, that is the same article where the Tourism Minister blames Thailand's pollution problems on tourists as well so you really have to wonder.

If you think back to the Tsunami in 2004, there was a significant drop in overall Arrival numbers after that, but most of that "drop" was probably people who had planned on going specifically to Phuket and had to cancel (for obvious reasons) and chose not to go to another location in Thailand instead.
If one dug deep enough and looked at estimated arrivals in Pattaya/Bangkok/Chiang Mai during the same period, they may notice that the number of tourists travelling to those destinations didn't drop very much (if at all).
Also, think about all the political unrest that Thailand was going through (pre-last coup). PAD taking over the airport in Bangkok in 2008 was big news, as well as the bombings and shootings that were happening in the city. 

Tourism numbers dropped in 2009 as a result, as people opted for "safer" destinations. Since then though, the numbers have been climbing steadily. A lot of people whine about the military government but they have brought a lot of peace and stability to the country which is being reflected in the record numbers of tourists arriving.

So major events like Tsunamis, airport "take-overs" and violent political unrest can have a noticeable effect on tourism numbers, smaller events like 2 Brits being murdered in Koh Tao, 36 Chinese drowning in a boating incident or a drug addict "taking hostages" apparently don't even cause a minor dip in the numbers, let alone "risk an already fragile" industry.

 

Lol - I remember when they opened Suvarnabhumi in 2006 and they said they'd built it on the estimated number of arrivals expected over the next 10 years with the intent that (if need be) they could then expand it to accommodate even more.

Within what, 2 years, they'd already reached what they thought would be their peak capability and had to start planning the first expansion nearly 8 years earlier than anticipated. Remember how a lot of smaller airlines and domestic flights had to go back to using Don Muang until they could complete the 1st expansion ?

In 2011 they announced the speed up of the second expansion, expecting it to be completed in 2016. 
They apparently started the 3rd Expansion phase last year, barely 11 years after the airport opened. Originally they had anticipated that this is about the time they'd need to do the 1st Expansion.
Another indicator that the tourism industry is not in any immediate danger of collapsing.

In fact, according to that recent Bloomberg article, Tourism now makes up 20% of Thailand's economy.
A few years ago people were making wild claims that it was the "expat" community that was responsible for most of Thailand's "tourism" income. I looked up some figures and did some math which clearly showed that the "expats" represented a very tiny percentage of the overall "tourism" economy and if I recall correctly, at the time, Tourism only made up about 12% of Thailand's total economy.
Just another indicator of how fast tourism is increasing in Thailand.

Unfortunately, it seems that local businesses (and their staff) are not benefiting from this boom like you'd think they should be.  

(Can we go back to talking about big guns now ?)

ps: I haven't seen any mention of this incident (the original story in this thread for those who've forgotten what this thread was about originally) anywhere else in the media (i.e. MSN.com, Rueters, APP, BBC, Al Jazeera, etc). 

So I would seriously doubt that it will have the slighest affect on tourism in Phuket, let alone Thailand.

 

Something else to think about. How many crimes do you hear about happening everyday in Amsterdam ? Manila ? Las Vegas ? Hawaii ? Rio de Janeiro ?

Crimes happen daily in those places as well, but the vast majority of the news never makes the international media. The same way relatively minor incidents that happen in Thailand don't normally make international news as well.

As a result, those incidents have a negligible impact on tourism. They seem significant to people that live in those areas though, because those people (like you) pay more attention to events that happen in "your" area or areas that are of interest to you.

How many of you follow the events happening in Afghanistan right now ?
Probably few (if any). But when I see an article about Afghanistan I take notice because that area is of interest to me. I'm not working there any more, don't know anyone who still is working there, may never go there again (sadly), but I did spend 10 years of my life working there so when something pops up in the news about the place, I tend to notice it.

It is the same with people who live in Thailand. When an article pops up about Phuket, people who live there tend to pay more attention to it than to an article about a place they've never been to or have any connection to. People in their home countries that have been to Phuket will be more likely to look at a news article about the place than people who have no clue where that place even is.

And what kind of news usually makes the media ? Bad news. Murders, robberies, rapes, suicides, accidents. Even if it doesn't make the international media, it makes up a lot of the local media. This tends to skew one's perception of the news as what you (normally) see in the local "English" media is news concerning "foreigners". You aren't reading/watching the Thai news so you aren't as aware of everything else going on. That makes it seem like all the news involves foreigners and most of that news is bad (aside from the occasional Cave Rescue stories that is).

I'll bet if you went to Manila, Amsterdam, Rio (etc, etc) and lived (more or less) like you do here (in Thailand), it wouldn't take long for you to think about those places the same as some of you think about whatever place you live in now, be that Pattaya, Phuket, Bangkok or wherever. You'd be noticing news (in your language) about things happening in the area around you and most of that news would probably be of the "bad" sort and soon enough it would seem like every bad incident that happens involves foreigners and everyone is out to get you.

 

Just remember, you are not paranoid if you think everyone is out to get you, when everyone really is out to get you !

(Did I really just spend an hour typing that wall of text ? Another indicator that I'm retired and have nothing better to do on a Friday morning in this fine weather !)

Phew - Congrats on your typing skills and dedication, and I have to say I agree with most of it!

[ttrd]

20 minutes ago, sambum said:

Phew - Congrats on your typing skills and dedication, and I have to say I agree with most of it!

Sambum, it's what you didnt agree on what actually is of interest….

[connda]

On 7/11/2018 at 12:44 PM, Ugothai said:

why is it so easy to have a gun in thailand ?? what i see is that every thai people have a gun.....

It's not easy in Thailand.  In the US it is easy if you have no criminal record. Same with a CCP.
In Thailand it can take close to a year to obtain the permits to purchase let alone own the gun.  Do your research.  That's for people who own guns legally, and virtually none of those people can carry their weapons in public - legally.  However, there are a whole lot of guns here.  Home invasions isn't a good idea in the LOS even though I don't see the equivalent of a Castle Doctrine in Thailand, but correct me if I'm wrong.  It just means that if you protect yourself from grievous bodily injury or death, you may save your life and the lives of your family, but you're probably going to prisons even if your firearm is licensed.  And if it's not licensed - more prison time for you.  So 'death' or 'prison'?  Especially when protecting family?  Not much of a choice, but better than cowering-in-place.  And best to go thought the long drawn out process to legally register your firearm at your Amphur.

Edited July 13, 2018 by connda

[overherebc]

On 7/11/2018 at 12:37 PM, Get Real said:

I guess it seems like everything starts to go back to normal.

 

By the way, Thanks for the very relevant input. It made my day.

Yes as you say, it's good to know you can think to yourself when you've been shot  I'm glad it was just a small 357 

Edited July 14, 2018 by overherebc

[transam]

1 minute ago, overherebc said:

Yes it's good to know you can think to yourself when you've been shot  I'm glad it was just a small 357 

............loaded with a .38.....?

[Get Real]

4 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Yes as you say, it's good to know you can think to yourself when you've been shot  I'm glad it was just a small 357 

Where did I say that? If you do not have anything to do, does that really mean you need to make up things people never say or write. Get a hobby, overherebc! It just sounds that you stayed to long. 

[Get Real]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

............loaded with a .38.....?

Eeeeh?

[transam]

1 minute ago, Get Real said:

Eeeeh?

The .357 round has near twice the "power" of a .38....

[overherebc]

9 minutes ago, Get Real said:

Where did I say that? If you do not have anything to do, does that really mean you need to make up things people never say or write. Get a hobby, overherebc! It just sounds that you stayed to long. 

I was agreeing with your comment.

[overherebc]

On 7/12/2018 at 7:50 PM, HAKAPALITA said:

Later i resigned from the SAS and joined 3rd Para.️


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

I was awarded the CDM followed by the VD and Scar and on discharge got the DCB.

[Get Real]

3 hours ago, overherebc said:

I was agreeing with your comment.

Sorry, mate! I just got your PM, and I also read it again. Missed a couple of words. Got it now! Thanks! Will rephrase it to say that you should definately stay a bit longer, so you always can go in and correct me when my whish to attack gets in conflict of common sense and understanding.