Major Change Eff 1 Apr 19 in Bangkok Bank ACH Transfers

[Suradit69]

15 hours ago, Pib said:

Keep in mind where were using the search function in Transferwise down at the bottom of the "main public page" which I think you used to get above info,  it allows you to see "all" SWIFT codes worldwide.

You're right. That's how I got the image I posted.

 

But, a couple of days ago I opened an account with Transferwise and went through the first couple of steps of doing a dollar to baht transfer to Bangkok Bank just to see how it worked and in the process of doing a transfer the SWIFT code that was shown was BKKBUS33, which suggests they go through the NY branch too, but use a SWIFT code, not the bank routing number and not the  BKKBTHBK code.

[Thailand J]

Vanguard's wire transfer fee is $10, the same for domestic and international, so why do u wire from Vanguard to  BKKBUS33 not BKKBTHBK?

I never fill in the information for intermediary bank when I set up or order a transfer with Vanguard and Schwab, let them work it out.

[mackayae]

Just initiated a transfer with Transferwise. Simple process, just takes 2 minutes. Transfered $1000, fees $10. ETC Tuesday. Deducted from my US checking account. A good alternative to the BBL NY method.

[Pib]

Well, let's talk the possibility of using a paper-based method, specifically writing and depositing a personal check to your Thai bank account.   

 

Anyone done that recently which can also provide details such as fees, exchange rate used, etc.  Below is a post I just made in a related thread...please refer to it...and post your reply either in that thread or this one.   Use of a personal check may be become more attractive now....but you would need to wait a few weeks for the money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[connda]

3 hours ago, Thailand J said:

Vanguard's wire transfer fee is $10, the same for domestic and international, so why do u wire from Vanguard to  BKKBUS33 not BKKBTHBK?

I never fill in the information for intermediary bank when I set up or order a transfer with Vanguard and Schwab, let them work it out.

I've attached a screen shot of the "International Bank Information" section of the Swift International Transfer application from my brokerage. 

Regarding:  a. Corresponding U.S. Bank: (if applicable)

 

My question is: "Is it applicable" and if so, then is BKKB NY info put in here or not?

 

I'm going to take the form down to BKKB in CM and simply ask them to show me how to properly fill out the form in order to guarantee a successful International Wire transfer, at least on their end.  I'll share that info when I obtain it. 

 

 

[Hank Gunn]

38 minutes ago, Pib said:

Well, let's talk the possibility of using a paper-based method, specifically writing and depositing a personal check to your Thai bank account.   

 

Anyone done that recently which can also provide details such as fees, exchange rate used, etc.  Below is a post I just made in a related thread...please refer to it...and post your reply either in that thread or this one.   Use of a personal check may be become more attractive now....but you would need to wait a few weeks for the money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good idea. Didn't even think about using a paper check.

 

I knew those things could be used for something. ?

[Thailand J]

1 hour ago, Hank Gunn said:

Good idea. Didn't even think about using a paper check.

 

[Pib]

A comparison between using the ACH transfer method or depositing a personal check.    The check method fairs pretty well assuming the bank will cash/deposit a personal check (some may not) and keeping in mind you will need to wait weeks for the check to clear and the funds be made available to you.  Be sure to read the notes at the bottom also.

 

[JimGant]

Quote

But why the axe is falling exactly NOW on BKKB's NY ACH transfers system after having operated for many years, I don't think we really know, and the bank hasn't said.

 

And the same kind of crackdown with Bangkok Bank London.... Possibly a weakness in Bangkok Bank's "know your customer" procedures? Or maybe just Thailand in general has come in for increased scrutiny...

 

For some reason Thailand is not on the International Direct Deposit (IDD) vetted list of countries allowed to have their banks receive Social Security (and other Treasury) electronic deposits.

https://www.ssa.gov/deposit/foreign.htm

 

And this is the reason for the workaround with Bangkok Bank to receive Treasury deposits via the ACH system (for cost and other reasons, the last thing Treasury wants to do is cut paper checks for expats without electronic deposit access). I bet that workaround must have been interesting, as the Federal Reserve runs IDD, so they and Treasury had to square off. And probably for that reason, it ain't going away.

 

Note China is a vetted country on the IDD list. Goes to show that if Thailand could just shoot more money launderers, they might receive that vaunted IDD access.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Today, I was doing a Google search for the "lowest international wire transfer fees," just to see what would emerge looking post-April 2019. Among the results from some of those compilation lists (I haven't checked all of them with their original sources):

 

Users here have reported Vanguard has a $10 outbound fee. Fidelity Brokerage also seems to be listed at $10, but not clear whether that's for domestic and/or international. Navy Federal CU and Schwab Brokerage both listed at $25 for outbound international. Pentagon Federal CU and Discover Bank are listed at $30. A number of the other U.S. brokerages also are listed as having $25 outbound international wire transfer fees.

 

If you've got a lot of money in their accounts, both CitiGold and Chase Private Client accounts say they offer free outbound international wire transfers. But if you have regular accounts with those banks, you can expect to pay $35 and $40, respectively.

 

Among the bad news bears, the following were all listed as charging $45 for outbound international wire transfers -- Bank of America (when sending USD), Wells Fargo (when sending USD), and USAA, the latter seeming unusually high for that institution (they list it as a $20 wire transfer fee PLUS a $25 international wire service fee.

 

https://content.usaa.com/mcontent/static_assets/Media/DaD0406_BillPay0704_SvcFee0606.pdf

 

If anyone has any other affordable international wire transfer fee choices, now and here's the time to mention them.

 

[Thailand J]

 

If you can't find cheap SWIFT transfer then only use SWIFT occasionally.

 

Assuming you spend 65,000B per month, which is about $2000. You can easily get that using

 Schwab ATM ( with $500 limit per transaction, $1000 perday) and have your ATM fees reimbursed.

 

Capital One credit card has no foreign transaction fees, you may even get cash back.

 

Bringing cash when you fly from US risk losing it ,  but of course that will never happen to you.

 

 

[jeffandgop]

The ATM method is convenient but I've always stayed away from that method believing that the exchange rate is quite dis favorable. When I transfer funds from the US to BKK Bank I enjoy the "TT" rate and assumably if I am forced to use the SWIFT process I'd still get from BKK Bank that TT rate.

Who has recent experience with what the exchange rates were when withdrawing from a Thailand ATM using a US bank credit card?

(If you don't know what "TT" rate is, call up the BKK rate page to see.....

http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/WebServices/Rates/Pages/FX_Rates.aspx)

[watgate]

Jeffandgop interesting you should mention this. In the past I would withdraw funds from a a Thai atm with my Schwab debit card and the rate always seemed to be significantly lower then what the XE currency converter website listed. I was led to believe that when you withdrew funds from an atm you would be getting the prevailing rate but now I am wondering if you do get a lower exchange rate from an atm versus having funds sent either by the ACH method or from the soon to be only option of a wire from your home bank or brokerage to Thailand.

[zlodnick]

Because my wife doesn't use the computer, I have set it up with our joint US bank account to make one large, annual, ACH transfer to her BKKB account. 

 

Now that the ACH transfers are coming to an end, I'd like to know if any of the other transfer options has the ability to make recurring transfers?

[Pib]

5 hours ago, jeffandgop said:

The ATM method is convenient but I've always stayed away from that method believing that the exchange rate is quite dis favorable. When I transfer funds from the US to BKK Bank I enjoy the "TT" rate and assumably if I am forced to use the SWIFT process I'd still get from BKK Bank that TT rate.

Who has recent experience with what the exchange rates were when withdrawing from a Thailand ATM using a US bank credit card?

(If you don't know what "TT" rate is, call up the BKK rate page to see.....

http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/WebServices/Rates/Pages/FX_Rates.aspx)

 

2 hours ago, watgate said:

Jeffandgop interesting you should mention this. In the past I would withdraw funds from a a Thai atm with my Schwab debit card and the rate always seemed to be significantly lower then what the XE currency converter website listed. I was led to believe that when you withdrew funds from an atm you would be getting the prevailing rate but now I am wondering if you do get a lower exchange rate from an atm versus having funds sent either by the ACH method or from the soon to be only option of a wire from your home bank or brokerage to Thailand.

 

When  you withdraw funds from an ATM (or at a counter) you get the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate "minus any foreign transaction fee" your card-issuing bank may apply."  And this assumes you do not get sucked into accepting a DCC transaction then you get the local bank rate for a DCC transaction which is going to be around 3% lower than the full Visa/Mastercard rate.   By full rate, I mean if your card-issuing bank does not charge a foreign transaction fee like the Schwab card does not plus a few others.  But most U.S. bank cards charge a 1 to 3% foreign transaction fee.

 

And you do "not" get the FX mid market rate like reported at XE.com as that rate is what the big banks/currency traders get when doing wholesale currency trading.  Yes, some money transfers services like Transferwise give you the mid market rate but those companies also then apply fees which effectively lowers their exchange rate.  

 

Both the Thai bank TT  Buying Rate and Visa/Mastercard exchange rates are pretty close to each other...usually give or take approx 0.25% when the FX markets are stable.   And both the Thai bank TT Buying Rate and Visa/Mastercard rate are approx 0.5% below the FX mid market rate.    Those slight lower rates than the FX mid market rate is where banks make their currency exchange profits....ditto for most money transfers services where their fees might be low to nothing but their exchange rate will be X-percent lower that the mid market rate as that is where they make their profit.

 

 

 

 

 

[claynlr]

Pib, what topic was it that you related your experience opening a transfer wise account? Thanks!

[Pib]

13 hours ago, JimGant said:

 

And the same kind of crackdown with Bangkok Bank London.... Possibly a weakness in Bangkok Bank's "know your customer" procedures? Or maybe just Thailand in general has come in for increased scrutiny...

 

For some reason Thailand is not on the International Direct Deposit (IDD) vetted list of countries allowed to have their banks receive Social Security (and other Treasury) electronic deposits.

https://www.ssa.gov/deposit/foreign.htm

 

And this is the reason for the workaround with Bangkok Bank to receive Treasury deposits via the ACH system (for cost and other reasons, the last thing Treasury wants to do is cut paper checks for expats without electronic deposit access). I bet that workaround must have been interesting, as the Federal Reserve runs IDD, so they and Treasury had to square off. And probably for that reason, it ain't going away.

 

Note China is a vetted country on the IDD list. Goes to show that if Thailand could just shoot more money launderers, they might receive that vaunted IDD access.

 

And just for others listening in who get a "military" retirement pension and may be wondering if Thailand is on the IDD listed used by the Defense Finance Accounting Service (DFAS) which pays out military month pensions, well, Thailand is not.   Here's the link to the DFAS list of IDD countries.   

 

And directly below is how DFAS describes countries on the IDD list....as already mentioned by Jim, Thailand is not on the SSA IDD list.  Nor are they on the DFAS IDD list...probably not on any U.S. govt IDD list which the U.S. Treasury probably controls.

 

 

I even sent DFAS a query a few weeks ago asking if Thailand was maybe under consideration for IDD?

 

My Question

 

Partial Quote below of DFAS Reply....they didn't really answer the question about is Thailand "under consideration."  In the way they answered the question I guess DFAS was just being nice in implying (at least to me), No, Thailand is not under consideration.  Or, the DFAS rep simply didn't have any knowledge of what countries may be under consideration as in they will not know until the U.S. Treasury adds a country to the IDD list.

 

 

Edit:  But just to stress the transfer of U.S. govt pension benefit payments such as social security and military retirement (i.e., payment from Uncle Same to you)  are "not" impacted by the change in ACH transfers via "ibanking" unless in the IAT format (i.e., you doing ACH transfers from your ibanking acct). 

[Pib]

24 minutes ago, claynlr said:

Pib, what topic was it that you related your experience opening a transfer wise account? Thanks!

I made references in  this tread and related threads....most of the related threads are also referenced/linked in this thread.  Just start back at post #1 and scan thru again.

[jeffandgop]

6 hours ago, Pib said:

 

 

When  you withdraw funds from an ATM (or at a counter) you get the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate "minus any foreign transaction fee" your card-issuing bank may apply."  And this assumes you do not get sucked into accepting a DCC transaction then you get the local bank rate for a DCC transaction which is going to be around 3% lower than the full Visa/Mastercard rate.   By full rate, I mean if your card-issuing bank does not charge a foreign transaction fee like the Schwab card does not plus a few others.  But most U.S. bank cards charge a 1 to 3% foreign transaction fee.

 

And you do "not" get the FX mid market rate like reported at XE.com as that rate is what the big banks/currency traders get when doing wholesale currency trading.  Yes, some money transfers services like Transferwise give you the mid market rate but those companies also then apply fees which effectively lowers their exchange rate.  

 

Both the Thai bank TT  Buying Rate and Visa/Mastercard exchange rates are pretty close to each other...usually give or take approx 0.25% when the FX markets are stable.   And both the Thai bank TT Buying Rate and Visa/Mastercard rate are approx 0.5% below the FX mid market rate.    Those slight lower rates than the FX mid market rate is where banks make their currency exchange profits....ditto for most money transfers services where their fees might be low to nothing but their exchange rate will be X-percent lower that the mid market rate as that is where they make their profit.

 

 

 

 

 

My question is asking SOLELY about the currency exchange rate- how the use of an ATM card to withdraw money from my savings and not being a cash advance from a credit card- how do those exchange rates compare with say, the bank’s TT rate.

I believe what the answer I read above is that the exchange rate is approximate to or uses the same rate a foreign credit cards rate may be, and that is also approximate to the bank’s TT rate. If correct, for me that is not bad because the TT rate is what my ACH transfers get today. So long as my US bank- which is a credit union- doesn’t charge fees for foreign ATM withdrawals- then that would work fine for me as I still would be enjoying the TT rate (nearly). Seems cheaper and more conveniemnt than SWIFT transfers.

 

I’ll be contacting my credit union to review and confirm what they can and can’t actually do. 

[jeffandgop]

1 hour ago, jeffandgop said:

My question is asking SOLELY about the currency exchange rate- how the use of an ATM card to withdraw money from my savings and not being a cash advance from a credit card- how do those exchange rates compare with say, the bank’s TT rate.

I believe what the answer I read above is that the exchange rate is approximate to or uses the same rate a foreign credit cards rate may be, and that is also approximate to the bank’s TT rate. If correct, for me that is not bad because the TT rate is what my ACH transfers get today. So long as my US bank- which is a credit union- doesn’t charge fees for foreign ATM withdrawals- then that would work fine for me as I still would be enjoying the TT rate (nearly). Seems cheaper and more conveniemnt than SWIFT transfers.

 

I’ll be contacting my credit union to review and confirm what they can and can’t actually do. 

BTW Pib. I just realized my original post reply did specify credit card and not ATM card. So I apologize for constructing the original question incorrectly 

[Pib]

41 minutes ago, jeffandgop said:

My question is asking SOLELY about the currency exchange rate- how the use of an ATM card to withdraw money from my savings and not being a cash advance from a credit card- how do those exchange rates compare with say, the bank’s TT rate.

I believe what the answer I read above is that the exchange rate is approximate to or uses the same rate a foreign credit cards rate may be, and that is also approximate to the bank’s TT rate. If correct, for me that is not bad because the TT rate is what my ACH transfers get today. So long as my US bank- which is a credit union- doesn’t charge fees for foreign ATM withdrawals- then that would work fine for me as I still would be enjoying the TT rate (nearly). Seems cheaper and more conveniemnt than SWIFT transfers.

 

I’ll be contacting my credit union to review and confirm what they can and can’t actually do. 

Yes., all you need to do to see "exactly" how much an ATM withdrawal will cost you (i.e., how much will hit your credit union account) is to go to the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate webpage and lookup the exchange rate used for the day you are withdrawing funds.  Then take in account any foreign transaction fee your credit union may apply and the Thai ATM Bt220 fee which may be shown separately or mixed in with the amount withdrawn depending on how your credit union displays such transactions.

 

Visa Exchange Rate Page

https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html/

 

 Mastercard Exchange Rate Page

https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/consumers/get-support/convert-currency.html

 

Say for example you had both a Visa and Mastercard debit card and your card-issuing credit union did not apply any foreign transaction fee.   Say you used both cards on 25 Jul 18. 

- The Visa exchange rate was 33.303. 

- The Mastercard exchange rate was 33.279

- The Bankgok Bank TT Buying Rate (1st/opening) was: 33.18

-  he Kaiskorn Bank TT Buying Rate (1st/opening) was: 33.20

 

So, on 25 July both the Visa and Mastercard full exchange rates were a little better than Thai bank TT Buying Rate.

 

If your credit union did not apply any foreign transaction fee and maybe even reimbursed the Thai ATM Bt220 fee like some cards do such as the Schwab card you are much better off because you got the money immediately in-hand at a lower cost, didn't have wait X-days for the funds to arrive, didn't have to pay transfer fees like the Thai bank 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max) for most Thai banks, the Bangkok Bank NY branch ACH pass thru fee, possibly a credit union sending fee,  etc.  

 

 

 

  

 

 

[Pib]

3 minutes ago, jeffandgop said:

BTW Pib. I just realized my original post reply did specify credit card and not ATM card. So I apologize for constructing the original question incorrectly 

Debit or credit cards get the same Visa/Mastercard exchange rate.   But keep in mind almost all credit cards come with a cash advance fee of 3% which is additive on top of any foreign transaction fee.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, Pib said:

Debit or credit cards get the same Visa/Mastercard exchange rate.   But keep in mind almost all credit cards come with a cash advance fee of 3% which is additive on top of any foreign transaction fee.

 

Here's a good example of how credit card advance fees along with foreign currency fees combine to screw you in this kind of an advance: 5% for the advance plus another 3% for the currency fee....  plus the 220b Thai bank ATM fee if done via an ATM!

 

[Pib]

6 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Here's a good example of how credit card advance fees along with foreign currency fees combine to screw you in this kind of an advance: 5% for the advance plus another 3% for the currency fee....  plus the 220b Thai bank ATM fee if done via an ATM!

 

Fees like that give a bankster an orgasm.

 

[mackayae]

On ‎7‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 12:44 PM, mackayae said:

Just initiated a transfer with Transferwise. Simple process, just takes 2 minutes. Transfered $1000, fees $10. ETC Tuesday. Deducted from my US checking account. A good alternative to the BBL NY method.

Received my transfer earlier today, 3:02 pm. 32,992.66 baht. Don't know if that is good or bad, but it was quick, 2 days.

[Pib]

On 7/29/2018 at 12:44 PM, mackayae said:

Just initiated a transfer with Transferwise. Simple process, just takes 2 minutes. Transfered $1000, fees $10. ETC Tuesday. Deducted from my US checking account. A good alternative to the BBL NY method.

 

1 hour ago, mackayae said:

Received my transfer earlier today, 3:02 pm. 32,992.66 baht. Don't know if that is good or bad, but it was quick, 2 days.

 

I think you ballparking the fee when saying $10 unless you got some special deal for signing up.  For a $1000 Transferwise transfer the fee would have been $11.90.  And based on the 32,992.66 baht you recd the exchange rate was 33.339. 

 

If you had done the transfer via the Bangkok Bank ACH method and assuming your Sending bank does not charge any sending fee and based on Bangkok Bank's mid day rate for today, you would have experienced $11.04 in the two Bangkok Bank fees resulting in 32,754.40 posting to your account.

 

So, the Transferwise transfer was the better deal.

[RocketDog]

On 7/27/2018 at 4:46 AM, cycolista said:

I'm curious, how long does a transfer take using Transferwise?

I have been using TransferWise for two years for <$3000 amounts. For a new recipient it can take 5-7 business days. For repeat recipients it usually tales 1-3 days.

 

I must say however that on 2 rare occasions it has taken over 10 days due to various problems..

The good news is that the company has a very active telephone support staff, but only for weekdays in EST zone.

[mackayae]

11 hours ago, Pib said:

 

 

I think you ballparking the fee when saying $10 unless you got some special deal for signing up.  For a $1000 Transferwise transfer the fee would have been $11.90.  And based on the 32,992.66 baht you recd the exchange rate was 33.339. 

 

If you had done the transfer via the Bangkok Bank ACH method and assuming your Sending bank does not charge any sending fee and based on Bangkok Bank's mid day rate for today, you would have experienced $11.04 in the two Bangkok Bank fees resulting in 32,754.40 posting to your account.

 

So, the Transferwise transfer was the better deal.

"32,992.66 THB is on its way to you. The money should be in the bank account by tomorrow, August 1.The USD to THB rate was 33.39. The fee was 11.90 USD."

---

 

[Thailand J]

How does Schwab ATM withdrawal compare?

Using Visa exchange rate I think $1000 will yield 33,485B today, right?

[Pib]

Schwab is a Visa card so you get whatever the Visa exchange rate webpage says.