Less Western Expats arriving than ever before and a significant fall in working Western expats now in Thailand

[Fex Bluse]

1 hour ago, overherebc said:

Less who? Is he from Oz?

I'd say less leave than the fewer who are arriving. Often, they leave without their blood or limbs or other parts. 

[worgeordie]

1 hour ago, Hanuman2547 said:

I must be lucky as I have had the same western farang tenant in my condo in Pattaya for the last 3.5 years.

If he pays his rent on time,looks after the Condo, look after him,

long term expats now harder to find.

regards worgeordie

[Hanuman2547]

So far so good.  No complaints.  He ticks all the boxes you mentioned.

[spidermike007]

23 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

never mind cost and price,

you are going about it in he wrong way if you  want good food and good wine in a good atmosphere

 

call it whatever you like, its still a canteen in a shopping centre, although a pricey centre,

still a shopping centre

 

 

I think there is something to what you are saying. My guess, based on the complete lack of wine service, for a restaurant that had a couple of hundred bottles on the list, and many between 2,000 and 6,000 baht, that the food was equally marginal, and the entire place was a hollow vessel, an empty suit, a charade, meant to look impressive, but delivering nothing but mediocrity. Zero pride, on the part of the owner. 

[Fex Bluse]

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

I think there is something to what you are saying. My guess, based on the complete lack of wine service, for a restaurant that had a couple of hundred bottles on the list, and many between 2,000 and 6,000 baht, that the food was equally marginal, and the entire place was a hollow vessel, an empty suit, a charade, meant to look impressive, but delivering nothing but mediocrity. Zero pride, on the part of the owner. 

Zero pride and par for the course in Thailand. Endless amounts of Thai false pride everywhere one looks. But hardly any true pride and honor and expertise. 

 

The whole country is 'an empty suit' so to speak. 

[spidermike007]

8 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

Zero pride and par for the course in Thailand. Endless amounts of Thai false pride everywhere one looks. But hardly any true pride and honor and expertise. 

 

The whole country is 'an empty suit' so to speak. 

 

I have often wondered about that. When I was being raised, my parents taught me that a job well done, was a job worth doing, and one should be able to take pride in their work, and go to sleep knowing they put in a good days work. A win win for everyone involved.

 

What is lacking here? Why so little sense of pride in craftsmanship, a days work, a repair, something built, or a service provided? What is that all about? Anyone know? Anyone care to guess? It has stumped me all these years. I keep on guessing. 

 

The false pride you speak of is an inane nationalism, that started in the 1930's, as a bald faced attempt to drum up patriotism. It has continued to this day, in one form or another. The lack of awareness of geopolitics, the relatively low number of Thai people who have ever even left the country, much less traveled around the world, the horrifically poor educational system, the lack of historical perspective, and the lack of interest in learning more about the world all contribute to this deficit. 

 

I tend to disagree about the whole country being an empty suit. I do think many Thais bring various things to the table. If I did not feel that way, I would not be here. I enjoy alot of the Thai people I encounter, and find most to be pleasant, light hearted, present, humorous, and courteous. Some are quite charming. Of course, if one gets outside of Phuket, Pattaya and Samui, one tends to see more of these qualities, as the places named are full of jaded people, who do not care for foreigners. I do not find that to be the case with the majority of the Thai people, who I like very much. 

Edited December 16, 2018 by spidermike007

[BritManToo]

11 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

When I was being raised, my parents taught me that a job well done, was a job worth doing, and one should be able to take pride in their work, and go to sleep knowing they put in a good days work. A win win for everyone involved.

Who is to say your parents were right?

[Fex Bluse]

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

I have often wondered about that. When I was being raised, my parents taught me that a job well done, was a job worth doing, and one should be able to take pride in their work, and go to sleep knowing they put in a good days work. A win win for everyone involved.

 

What is lacking here? Why so little sense of pride in craftsmanship, a days work, a repair, something built, or a service provided? What is that all about? Anyone know? Anyone care to guess? It has stumped me all these years. I keep on guessing. 

I really don't know what's going on with Thailand...

 

For comparison, they do share the endless false pride thing with China, though. No surprise, really, considering their cultural heritage. 

 

The Japanese, though, are almost perfectly opposite and, on average, take immense real pride in what they do. 

 

I can only suspect that Thai culture is faulty in this regard. If they spend so much energy pretending, it follows that they know quality is important/desirable. But, perhaps they are too selfish to make any of the necessary sacrifices to achieve actual quality. 

 

I am of course just guessing as I was raised to gain pride from actual accomplishments and not simply deception and dishonesty. 

[Fex Bluse]

5 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Who is to say your parents were right?

Who is to say they were not? Anyone can play this "what if" moral relativism game, @BritManToo, I'm sure you agree.

 

Think of safety and what impact dishonesty has on it. 

 

Think of business dealings and what impact dishonesty and false pride have. 

 

Not every national characteristic is defensible. 

[Nyezhov]

2 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

The Japanese, though, are almost perfectly opposite and, on average, take immense real pride in what they do. 

its not pride, its trying to avoid shame. They are brainwashed from a young age to do things correctly, as a group thing. My japanese xwife would go nuts over little things like stamps being put on crooked, folks not standing quietly for the national anthem, people being rude, etc

[BritManToo]

6 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

Think of business dealings and what impact dishonesty and false pride have. 

Dishonesty is an essential part of all business dealings, assuming to want to make a decent profit/living.

I'm just pointing out the 'boomer working-class morality' of our parents was not necessarily the right way (or the only way). In many ways, they misled and lied to us in order to turn us into soulless worker drones for the capitalist system.

 

Edited December 16, 2018 by BritManToo

[mauGR1]

42 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Dishonesty is an essential part of all business dealings, assuming to want to make a decent profit/living.

I'm just pointing out the 'boomer working-class morality' of our parents was not necessarily the right way (or the only way). In many ways, they misled and lied to us in order to turn us into soulless worker drones for the capitalist system.

 

That's about right, life is not only about being a serious worker.

It's not by chance that many Westerners like to live in Thailand, we can get tired of being serious.

Everybody's different, everybody need to find their own balance.

I disagree about the dishonesty in business, dishonesty is thriving because most people are honest.

Were the majority being dishonest, we would be killing each other all the time.

[bkk6060]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

 

I have often wondered about that. When I was being raised, my parents taught me that a job well done, was a job worth doing, and one should be able to take pride in their work, and go to sleep knowing they put in a good days work. A win win for everyone involved.

 

What is lacking here? Why so little sense of pride in craftsmanship, a days work, a repair, something built, or a service provided? What is that all about? Anyone know? Anyone care to guess? It has stumped me all these years. I keep on guessing. 

 

The false pride you speak of is an inane nationalism, that started in the 1930's, as a bald faced attempt to drum up patriotism. It has continued to this day, in one form or another. The lack of awareness of geopolitics, the relatively low number of Thai people who have ever even left the country, much less traveled around the world, the horrifically poor educational system, the lack of historical perspective, and the lack of interest in learning more about the world all contribute to this deficit. 

 

Here we go again.

Have you ever traveled this country outside your comfortable $60 a bottle box?

Because, this is not your country, or your up bringing, or your parents, or your culture.

Traveling and learning about the world??

Believe it or not get outside the box and most people here are still just trying to survive.

Put food on the table and get by day by day.

It is not going to change any time soon this is still mostly close to a 3rd world country.

It is unbelievable to me that people think this place should be like where they came from and their world.

You seem like an intelligent fellow, but sadly seem to be clueless on this topic.

Edited December 16, 2018 by bkk6060

[Fex Bluse]

40 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Dishonesty is an essential part of all business dealings, assuming to want to make a decent profit/living.

I'm just pointing out the 'boomer working-class morality' of our parents was not necessarily the right way (or the only way). In many ways, they misled and lied to us in order to turn us into soulless worker drones for the capitalist system.

 

So, is your goal with these frequent arguments to suggest that there really is no right and wrong, in your view? 

 

You are aware of the Thai 12 core principles. These are principles that THAIS say are important to them. Yet, most do not follow - as written about by prominent Thais. 

 

Below are a few with boldings. What say you now of this? 

 

2. Honesty, sacrifice, and patience with positive attitude for the interest of the public

 

6. Maintaining moral, integrity, well-wishes upon others as well as being generous and sharing

 

8. Maintaining of discipline; respecting laws and the elderly

 

11. Keeping physical and mental strength, unyielding to the evil power or desires, having sense of shame over guilt and sins in accordance with the religious principles;

 

12. Putting the public and national interest before one’s own

[Fex Bluse]

1 hour ago, Nyezhov said:

its not pride, its trying to avoid shame. They are brainwashed from a young age to do things correctly, as a group thing. My japanese xwife would go nuts over little things like stamps being put on crooked, folks not standing quietly for the national anthem, people being rude, etc

OK, whether by guilt, shame, pride or fear, aspiring to quality and honor and what is just is a good characteristic. Sadly, Thais it often seem across the board lack these. 

[BritManToo]

19 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

You are aware of the Thai 12 core principles. These are principles that THAIS say are important to them. Yet, most do not follow - as written about by prominent Thais. 

I'm not Thai.

I'm suggesting the espoused traditional western values are invented by the elite to control the many.

The elite obey none, and the many waste their lives following rules invented to control them.

 

Similarly, the Thai feudal 'core principles' are created by those that rule to oppress those that don't.

The Thai elite don't obey their own rules either.

 

I'm OK with the way they are, they way they work, the way they live, and can fit in with those around me.

I have no need to judge them from my entitled white high moral tower.

 

If you don't like the way the Thai population behave, I suggest you move somewhere more to your liking.

I didn't like the way the Brit population behaved, so I moved, and IMHO it's much better here than in the UK.

Edited December 16, 2018 by BritManToo

[Nyezhov]

4 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

OK, whether by guilt, shame, pride or fear, aspiring to quality and honor and what is just is a good characteristic. Sadly, Thais it often seem across the board lack these. 

Thats fine then, is there any nationality that completely aspires to quality and honour and "what is just a good characteristic" (whatever that means, English is not apparently your first language).

 

Quite frankly, the Thai bashing here gets old. Its not done jokingly, like taking the piss about British food and Aussie slang or American ignorance (although the latter comes close to not taking the piss), but its done with true belief that "hey, Im from *insert country here* and the Thais are *insert generalization here*. 

 

Where ya from Felix, what can we say about your country?

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

I have often wondered about that. When I was being raised, my parents taught me that a job well done, was a job worth doing, and one should be able to take pride in their work, and go to sleep knowing they put in a good days work. A win win for everyone involved.

 

What is lacking here? Why so little sense of pride in craftsmanship, a days work, a repair, something built, or a service provided? What is that all about? Anyone know? Anyone care to guess? It has stumped me all these years. I keep on guessing. 

 

The false pride you speak of is an inane nationalism, that started in the 1930's, as a bald faced attempt to drum up patriotism. It has continued to this day, in one form or another. The lack of awareness of geopolitics, the relatively low number of Thai people who have ever even left the country, much less traveled around the world, the horrifically poor educational system, the lack of historical perspective, and the lack of interest in learning more about the world all contribute to this deficit. 

 

I tend to disagree about the whole country being an empty suit. I do think many Thais bring various things to the table. If I did not feel that way, I would not be here. I enjoy alot of the Thai people I encounter, and find most to be pleasant, light hearted, present, humorous, and courteous. Some are quite charming. Of course, if one gets outside of Phuket, Pattaya and Samui, one tends to see more of these qualities, as the places named are full of jaded people, who do not care for foreigners. I do not find that to be the case with the majority of the Thai people, who I like very much. 

 

I deal with a fair number of skilled workers in LoS,

boat builders, engine mechanics, welders, engine electricians, pvc cover makers, producers of steel constructions

 

my experience, by and large, is that they do a pretty good job,

good enough,

however - search of excellence - is a foreign term to them

 

proper job, sufficient, but not excellent

 

[Joebuzz]

On 8/2/2018 at 6:43 AM, worgeordie said:

It's harder finding Farang tenants for rental properties now,

10 years ago relatively easy,now its Chinese (only as a last

resort) and Thais (never again),not racist ,just good business

practice.

regards worgeordie

I was extorted by both condo owners in my 3 years there.  Extorted by the police.  Robbed by two women I had known for 6 months.  Knew better than to swim in the ocean (I was warned my first week there).  Honestly, when I left I was so glad to be gone.  I'd never go back or even recommend someone go there.  Next time I visit Thailand I won't be leaving the airport unless it's on a plane.

[Joebuzz]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

Here we go again.

Have you ever traveled this country outside your comfortable $60 a bottle box?

Because, this is not your country, or your up bringing, or your parents, or your culture.

Traveling and learning about the world??

Believe it or not get outside the box and most people here are still just trying to survive.

Put food on the table and get by day by day.

It is not going to change any time soon this is still mostly close to a 3rd world country.

It is unbelievable to me that people think this place should be like where they came from and their world.

You seem like an intelligent fellow, but sadly seem to be clueless on this topic.

Using your logic I guess I'd be just fine backpacking through the jungles of the Congo or maybe trekking through Syria.

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, Joebuzz said:

Extorted by the police.

Robbed by two women I had known for 6 months.

or fined by the police in the UK for driving 32mph in a 30mph zone.

I know which option I would take and here's your 200/400bht enjoy.

 

or divorce raped for 2/3 my total assets by my UK wife.

Again, I know which option is best for me.

 

Thailand ain't that bad!

Edited December 16, 2018 by BritManToo

[Kieran00001]

It could as easily be that the demographics of TV readership have changed.

[garyk]

On 8/2/2018 at 5:43 PM, worgeordie said:

It's harder finding Farang tenants for rental properties now,

10 years ago relatively easy,now its Chinese (only as a last

resort) and Thais (never again),not racist ,just good business

practice.

regards worgeordie

Honestly 10 years ago it started getting better for renters like me. Because of the massive building here.  Before that I was stuck with the same digs it seemed like.

Now, I can belly up to a new condo, or apartment every month. It is insane.

I rented a place the other day for 5000 baht / mo with a nice pool and fitness center. 

One of the things that keep me coming back now that I am getting older. A renters paradise!

If not for the silly immigration rules, no land owner ship, 90 day reports, and yearly extensions I would of moved here permanently years ago. 

They need to make it more expat friendly IMO, then westerners would recommend it. As it stands it is tough for me to reccomend  Thailand. 

Edited December 16, 2018 by garyk

[fruitman]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

What is lacking here? Why so little sense of pride in craftsmanship, a days work, a repair, something built, or a service provided? What is that all about? Anyone know? Anyone care to guess? It has stumped me all these years. I keep on guessing. 

They get paid anyway, also for a bad job so why would they try to do it perfect??

 

And this all is about 'mai pen lai' which they all accept and all have that attitude themselves as well.

 

And before the real problems show they already have another job or company....and if you dare to complain about builders you might get into serious problems.

 

I do everything myself and when i buy something i check EVERYTHING...even every nut...i just bought a WSP stainless steel towell rack and 2 screws were not the same as the showmodel..they were sharp cutting the towell or shirt you hang on it...so after 10 staffmembers helped me i finally bought the showmodel which had good screws..

For 1600 baht i expect a good rack from real stainless steel but ALL models had a sticker with Stainless steel 304 except the one i wanted.....I hope it's real though or will be rusting soon, it looked the same color though.

 

It's terrible i agree, you can't trust ANYTHING here to be real quality...no matter what the price is.

[Nyezhov]

52 minutes ago, Joebuzz said:

I was extorted by both condo owners in my 3 years there.  Extorted by the police.  Robbed by two women I had known for 6 months.  Knew better than to swim in the ocean (I was warned my first week there).  Honestly, when I left I was so glad to be gone.  I'd never go back or even recommend someone go there.  Next time I visit Thailand I won't be leaving the airport unless it's on a plane.

Yet here you are, posting on a Thai Forum.

[Nyezhov]

20 minutes ago, garyk said:

Honestly 10 years ago it started getting better for renters like me. Because of the massive building here.  Before that I was stuck with the same digs it seemed like.

Now, I can belly up to a new condo, or apartment every month. It is insane.

I rented a place the other day for 5000 baht / mo with a nice pool and fitness center. 

One of the things that keep me coming back now that I am getting older. A renters paradise!

If not for the silly immigration rules, no land owner ship, 90 day reports, and yearly extensions I would of moved here permanently years ago. 

They need to make it more expat friendly IMO, then westerners would recommend it. As it stands I would not recommend Thailand as a holiday or retirement destination. 

Yet you are here

[garyk]

5 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Yet you are here

Yea, but this is the first time back in about a year now. I have been here for 3 months and will be leaving in a couple of more months. 

Gets longer and longer between visits now. 

I am heading to the Mexican embassy tomorrow to see what it will take to get my partner here into Mexico. I have been going down to the Yucatan and love it there. Also checked out Colombia. Very nice also. 

 

Edited December 16, 2018 by garyk

[Nyezhov]

1 minute ago, garyk said:

Yea, but this is the first time back in about a year now. I have been here for 3 months and will be leaving in a couple of more months. 

Gets longer and longer between visits now. 

 

Shorter or longer...you are still coming back to this hellhole.

 

5000 month? Pattaya? ????

[garyk]

11 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Shorter or longer...you are still coming back to this hellhole.

 

5000 month? Pattaya? ????

No, in over 10 years I have only been to Pattaya for one night. Didn't care for it.

Honestly if not for a GF here I would of not come back this time.

Doesn't mean I won't come back and stay, but just not right now... haha

 

Edited December 16, 2018 by garyk

[DrTuner]

Thais and pride in work? Yes they do have it, they take pride in jerryrigging <deleted> in the least amount of time possible and getting a few satangs for it. Quality does not enter into the equation at all.