UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, talahtnut said:

UKs nukes are old fashioned, messy and, could be wiped out with little or no warning.

 

Although, dropping one on Westminster, the enemy within, seems quite tempting.

The Russians are tracking the Tridents are they?

[tebee]

1 minute ago, SheungWan said:

The cleanest shirt in the dirty laundry basket.

It won't do anything to solve the longer term problems of the country - it's a short term fix to get over paying lip service to the referendum result and TM's too early calling of art 50.

 

Neither side will give up, both will be blaming the country's problems on this for years to come rather than spending tiume analysing what is really wrong with the county, it's politics and society.

 

And we'll spend years in limbo trying to organise a future trade deal, rather than dealing with those internal problems.  

[Srikcir]

1 hour ago, AGareth2 said:

another referendum on the cards

Only as a childish exercise.

The EU is done with negotiations.

Brexit: EU leaders back Theresa May's deal in Brussels

“This is the deal, it’s the best deal possible and the EU will not change its fundamental position when it comes to this issue so I do think the British parliament – because this is a wise parliament – will ratify this deal.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/25/eu-leaders-back-theresa-mays-brexit-deal-in-brussels

 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

I'm trying to think of it in terms of game theory - some variation on the prisoner's dilemma maybe?

 

Neither side  can risk going against her, otherwise the outcome they most fear happens ?

 

Is this all just a cynical ploy by May to retain power? 

Yes indeed. Nash Equilibrium was pointing to Norway+. May deal is Norway-.   

[vinny41]

13 minutes ago, tebee said:

It won't do anything to solve the longer term problems of the country - it's a short term fix to get over paying lip service to the referendum result and TM's too early calling of art 50.

 

Neither side will give up, both will be blaming the country's problems on this for years to come rather than spending tiume analysing what is really wrong with the county, it's politics and society.

 

And we'll spend years in limbo trying to organise a future trade deal, rather than dealing with those internal problems.  

If Corbyn had been PM he would have invoked Article 50 June 24th 2016

24th June, 2016

Corbyn: “Article 50 Has To Be Invoked Now”

https://labourlist.org/2016/06/corbyn-article-50-has-to-be-invoked-now/

[tebee]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

If Corbyn had been PM he would have invoked Article 50 June 24th 2016

24th June, 2016

Corbyn: “Article 50 Has To Be Invoked Now”

https://labourlist.org/2016/06/corbyn-article-50-has-to-be-invoked-now/

yes, but Corbyn is an idiot...

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Not sure what the response of the people would be to that.  Certainly would be justified on paper but it would be looked at as a cop out I would have thought.

It's really whether a serious breach has happened, and it's possible effect on the result; it certainly seems serious and the the result was extremely close.  The Courts will be concerned with the Law and not political ramifications.

 

 

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

I'm trying to think of it in terms of game theory - some variation on the prisoner's dilemma maybe?

 

Neither side  can risk going against her, otherwise the outcome they most fear happens ?

 

Is this all just a cynical ploy by May to retain power? 

naaa

hardly cynical, this is one of the few things she can do

create popular support for her deal/view - may have an impact on MPs / parliament

 

[tebee]

2 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

naaa

hardly cynical, this is one of the few things she can do

create popular support for her deal/view - may have an impact on MPs / parliament

 

She doesn't actually need support - just enough people to think all the alternatives are worse. 

[adammike]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

Poor excuse for making things up.

"Staying in the EU would mean no British Army, No RAF and No  British Navy"

That may be the most stupid statement that has been posted in this thread.

[adammike]

2 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Am I the only one who finds May's plea to the British public to back her Brexit deal a bit bizarre?  The phone in programmes and the open letter today pleading with people to back her plan.  She has said that the people have voted for Brexit and so she is not letting them have a say again so what does she think she will achieve by all this?

 

All I can think is that she wants people to lobby their MP's but how naïve is that.  Maybe I am missing something here unless she is weighing up actually giving the people  another say?  After all she is famous for her U-turns.

She tried it at the last election "give me the majority to give you the Brexit that you voted for" or words to that effect,and the will of the people was NO!

[melvinmelvin]

47 minutes ago, tebee said:

It won't do anything to solve the longer term problems of the country - it's a short term fix to get over paying lip service to the referendum result and TM's too early calling of art 50.

 

Neither side will give up, both will be blaming the country's problems on this for years to come rather than spending tiume analysing what is really wrong with the county, it's politics and society.

 

And we'll spend years in limbo trying to organise a future trade deal, rather than dealing with those internal problems.  

guess you are right on this

 

pretty much like this thread and the other looooong Brexit thread that was closed

tons of effort spent on history

what did Cameron say not say

how many old leave voters have now perished

younger voters taking their place, more stay friendly?

what did the ref ballot actually mean

how to compute the outcome of the ref

HISTORY

little effort spent on analyzing the situation

analyzing Europe

discussing what now

which course to stake out in order to achieve what

 

 

[adammike]

7 hours ago, billd766 said:

So why didn't you vote in 2016?

 

According to you the UK MEP's, all 73 of them were/were supporting UKIP.

 

Yet according to the UKIP 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_Independence_Party

 

The UK Independence Party (UKIP /ˈjuːkɪp/) is a Eurosceptic and right-wing populist political party in the United Kingdom. It currently has three representatives in the House of Lords and sixteen Members of the European Parliament (MEPs), making it the third-largest UK party in the European Parliament. It has four Assembly Members (AMs) in the National Assembly for Wales and two members in the London Assembly.

 

16 from 73 is about 22%. So what did the other 57 MEP do?

I have been living in the Netherlands for more than the 15 years that would have allowed me to vote,I think I may be still on the electoral roll in Peterborough where I was working last time I voted.

[mommysboy]

Juncker advises voting for the deal. Some might say that alone is a very good reason for voting against it????

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-latest-eu-summit-theresa-may-jean-claude-juncker-brussels-vote-a8650726.html

[adammike]

6 hours ago, rixalex said:

First point. News flash for you. Brexiteers already did win. You lost. Did it slip your mind?

Second point. "Long legal democratic process reuniting with the EU will begin". LOL. Pull the other one. The remain establishment has already shown that remaining in the EU comes long before concerns about democratic processes. They'll just keep slowly chipping away at it until they force on the nation their way.

Thirdly, re "Brexit thugs", it's funny how those who try to present themselves as being moral crusaders against bigotry and stereotyping, at the same time express themselves such bigoted and stereotypical views about those people who dare to not share their opinion. You really need to take a long hard look in the mirror.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

We remainers do look in the mirror and we see Jo Cox staring back at us.

[melvinmelvin]

 

whatever

 

a few hours ago the EU heads of states gave their political nod to progress with Brexit,

ie the deal and the political cover was noted

 

today was not a decision making meeting but a congregation of chieftains to jointly nod heads

 

next UK parliament, decision making

next EU parliament, decision making

next, EU signing the stuff (and also UK I guess) formal  arm waving

 

ratification

 

[talahtnut]

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

What it is is an option down the Centre. The Hard Brexiteers and Remain forces can disrupt but cannot deliver.

Isis down the middle, brilliant!

[talahtnut]

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

TINA.

TINA BEANS.

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, adammike said:

She tried it at the last election "give me the majority to give you the Brexit that you voted for" or words to that effect,and the will of the people was NO!

 

hmmm

don't think the will was NO

 

more like ok+DUP=YES

 

[adammike]

2 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

hmmm

don't think the will was NO

 

more like ok+DUP=YES

 

The deal with the DUP was made after the election wasn't it?

[talahtnut]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

The Russians are tracking the Tridents are they?

What do you think Russian satelites are for?

Laughing the navy sub 'Astute' hiding on a sand bank

off the Scottish coast?

 

[melvinmelvin]

14 minutes ago, adammike said:

The deal with the DUP was made after the election wasn't it?

yes it was

 

but the people's no was very small print

 

 

having said that,

bloody silly arm waving of TM the GE, she enjoys majority - completely misjudges the UK and loses it

 

quite similar to her two fights with UK  legal system re bypassing parliament with a50

 

bah bah bo bo as we say

 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2018 by melvinmelvin

[billd766]

1 hour ago, adammike said:

I have been living in the Netherlands for more than the 15 years that would have allowed me to vote,I think I may be still on the electoral roll in Peterborough where I was working last time I voted.

If you have been away for more than 15 years then sadly you have lost your vote.

 

I was lucky at the referendum as my vote still counted though I am in Thailand. I used a friend as my proxy voter.

 

Here is a link which may help you.

 

https://www.peterborough.gov.uk/council/elections/register-to-vote/

[rixalex]

We remainers do look in the mirror and we see Jo Cox staring back at us.

Political point scoring with a murdered woman's name is just about as low as it gets.

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[rixalex]

She tried it at the last election "give me the majority to give you the Brexit that you voted for" or words to that effect,and the will of the people was NO!

The Tories won more seats than any other party if I recall correctly, and Labour campaigned like the Tories to deliver Brexit, so more than 80% of the electorate voting to get on with exiting.

The only party that campaigned against Brexit won how many seats was it?

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[rixalex]

I have been living in the Netherlands for more than the 15 years that would have allowed me to vote,I think I may be still on the electoral roll in Peterborough where I was working last time I voted.

Another one, like tebee and grouse, simply arguing in favour of what is most personally beneficial.

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[adammike]

49 minutes ago, billd766 said:

If you have been away for more than 15 years then sadly you have lost your vote.

 

I was lucky at the referendum as my vote still counted though I am in Thailand. I used a friend as my proxy voter.

 

Here is a link which may help you.

 

https://www.peterborough.gov.uk/council/elections/register-to-vote/

I did check but I have been away for more than 15 years.

[adammike]

4 minutes ago, rixalex said:

Another one, like tebee and grouse, simply arguing in favour of what is most personally beneficial.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I voted to stay in the EEC long before i moved there,I have always voted Labour but I would not vote for JC I would hold my nose and vote for the lib dems,I would consider myself a class traitor if I ever voted Tory and that's what I think a lot of Tory voting brexiteers are,maybe people get the government they deserve.

[Grouse]

Been watching listening to EU country leaders today. Very sad. What decent people.

 

We should stay close to our friends. Mad to walk away

 

I wish we had leaders like that...

[melvinmelvin]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Been watching listening to EU country leaders today. Very sad. What decent people.

 

We should stay close to our friends. Mad to walk away

 

I wish we had leaders like that...

split tory into centre and right

split labour into centre and left

do something very serious with the totally hopeless voting system you have in the UK

 

you may start to see some decent leaders

 

or keep on living in the past with empire and coal being sought after