UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[Grouse]

55 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Alternatively if you were concerned about the price of bacon given as your example you could make your own. It is cheaper, tastier and YOU control what goes into it.

 

Much like Brexit in fact.

You'd be better having me make the chips!

[tomacht8]

10 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Standards will be on the bonfire to enable cheap imports of low quality food as part of desperate trade deals. We will not be able to export our food to the EU because it will no longer be acceptable for many reasons. Some farmers voted for Brexit ?

that can happen. Without control and reasonable consumer protection laws, the pus bubbles are coming back into the sausage.

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

That of course assumes that the person involved in becoming a doctor WANTS to work in the EU. If their plan is to work in the UK it means that they don't NEED to qualify in the EU.

Apparently that was/is the case, no?

[aright]

8 hours ago, sandyf said:

Those that wish to promote the project fear propaganda should be looking a lot closer to home. The greatest hawkers of project fear are those that talk about "no deal" and "walking away".

The leavers prefer to ignore the fact that threats are employed by the "bullyboy" mentality with the sole intention of creating fear. They have some misguided notion that threats are a superior way to negotiate.

As opposed to your superior way to negotiate, which involves throwing in the towel before you get to the table.

[aright]

18 hours ago, tebee said:

Any SME that wants to trade with the EU post brexit is still going comply with those regulations - at considerably more cost though as they will then have to prove they comply, rather than it just being assumed. Presumably they will have to get their goods certified by some EU   based authority.

 

For the others, firstly the cost of complying with EU regs is a sunk cost currently so it's only on an ongoing basis that economies could be found by lowering standards.

 

But although most SME's don't trade with the EU, that's because most SMEs are small local businesses like corner shops, car mechanics and hairdressers, who have a customer footprint of only a few miles radius.   It's hard to see how EU regs negatively affect them now to any great extent. Maybe your local garage will be able to pour their used sump oil down the drain post-Brexit rather than having to pay to have it disposed of properly.   

I make widgets which I export to Germany and France...……...to paint the picture.

A European customer comes to me and asks me to cost 50000 widgets for him.

I look at his machine drawing and ask him does he want to use tool, alloy, or stainless  steel and what tolerances he wants to work to, T&C's etc

I agree to produce 50 widgets to his specification as proof of principle (proto types )

He signs them off I give him a price and if I am lucky he gives me an order 

At an agreed time the goods are delivered to the customer. 

Any SME that wants to trade with the EU post brexit is still going comply with those regulations.

I accept post Brexit tariffs may be different but what regulation exists or will be applied to possibly refuse entry to the EU of goods made to the specifications of a customer in a member state?

 

[tebee]

20 minutes ago, aright said:

I make widgets which I export to Germany and France...……...to paint the picture.

A European customer comes to me and asks me to cost 50000 widgets for him.

I look at his machine drawing and ask him does he want to use tool, alloy, or stainless  steel and what tolerances he wants to work to, T&C's etc

I agree to produce 50 widgets to his specification as proof of principle (proto types )

He signs them off I give him a price and if I am lucky he gives me an order 

At an agreed time the goods are delivered to the customer. 

Any SME that wants to trade with the EU post brexit is still going comply with those regulations.

I accept post Brexit tariffs may be different but what regulation exists or will be applied to possibly refuse entry to the EU of goods made to the specifications of a customer in a member state?

 

 But in this case what EU regulations are you having to comply with pre brexit ?

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

7 hours ago, Grouse said:

Standards will be on the bonfire to enable cheap imports of low quality food as part of desperate trade deals. We will not be able to export our food to the EU because it will no longer be acceptable for many reasons. Some farmers voted for Brexit ?

 

make ample room for more pesticide residue and g-modified foods

 

 

[kwilco]

44 minutes ago, tebee said:

 But in this case what EU regulations are you having to comply with pre brexit ?

 

 

accept post Brexit tariffs may be different

 

In the UK there as no tariffs at resent, as a country outside the EU you will automatically subject to tariffs....most likely WTO ones for each separate material classification as well as the item.

Even if you comply to all EU regs yourvoroduct will be subject to the fees, duties and taxes of any country that has no trade deal with the EU.

Manufacturers and users of multiple materials will probably need an agent to export and legal advice to sort out all the various WTO /EU tariffs that pertain to their product ... as will their shippers.

 

You will note that the BMW mini plant has gone to a 3 day week until Xmas...... this is to anticipate chaos in their supply chain of parts and materials post Brexit.

Edited September 18, 2018 by kwilco

[The manic]

On 9/15/2018 at 2:05 PM, Grouse said:

So there is no point to TV?

 

Shocking behaviour!

 

May you be cast out into the darkness and far away from the goodness and wisdom that is TV

What does this even mean?

[kwilco]

56 minutes ago, tebee said:

 But in this case what EU regulations are you having to comply with pre brexit ?

 

 

The EU stipulates a lot of  manufacturing and consumer standards on goods...hence the myth of the straight banana and banned UK sausage....neither true.

However anyone wishing to export to the EU has to comply with these standards.....v. the Thai poultry industry.

Without a trade deal .... UK will have to renegotiate over 700 of these .... goods will be subject to the WTO tariffs, another trade organisation that the UK is also signed up to.

 

In order to replace goods priced out of the market post Brevity, UK will have "relax" regulations on imports to allow in products like highly processed food from the US or other countries.

So to eat the same, will have to eat lower quality.

[bristolboy]

3 hours ago, aright said:

I make widgets which I export to Germany and France...……...to paint the picture.

A European customer comes to me and asks me to cost 50000 widgets for him.

I look at his machine drawing and ask him does he want to use tool, alloy, or stainless  steel and what tolerances he wants to work to, T&C's etc

I agree to produce 50 widgets to his specification as proof of principle (proto types )

He signs them off I give him a price and if I am lucky he gives me an order 

At an agreed time the goods are delivered to the customer. 

Any SME that wants to trade with the EU post brexit is still going comply with those regulations.

I accept post Brexit tariffs may be different but what regulation exists or will be applied to possibly refuse entry to the EU of goods made to the specifications of a customer in a member state?

 

And if those widgets are part of an integrated supply chain based on just-in-time delivery as is the case with so much of modern manufacturing?

[My Thai Life]

16 hours ago, tebee said:

If however, he does his speciality training in Germany, he is allowed to work in any other EU country at the same level by simply applying. 

 

It's things like this that the brexiters don't seem to realize. 

 

In theory this may be true. But in practice non-tariff barriers inside the EU are what prevent mobility of services. The most obvious of which is the language barrier. Let’s say your stepson is Thai or French. What language would he speak as a practising doctor in Germany or Hungary etc? Would he have to learn a new language when he moves to a different EU country? Of course he would - unless he works in an international English-speaking practice.

 

In addition to the language barrier, different EU countries have different bodies for professions, with different national rules and regulations. Directive 2005/36/EC merely sets the rules for, among other things, "professions with harmonised minimum training conditions (i.e. nurses, midwifes, doctors (general practitioners and specialists), dental practitioners, pharmacists, architects and veterinary surgeons)". Notice minimum training conditions – I’m sure the UK will continue to meet these minimum conditions even if it’s outside the scope of the Directive.

 

So, while your post raises an interesting point that hasn't been raised before on this thread, it's just a tiny taster of the problem of barriers to professional services mobility within the EU. Services have never been frictionless in the EU, and they never can be – until the EU is one superstate with one language.

 

All of my international work has been of a professional nature. Work permits are not difficult to obtain – it’s things like this that remainers don’t seem to realize

Edited September 19, 2018 by My Thai Life

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

14 hours ago, Grouse said:

Were you up at Cambridge personally? Otherwise reduce the pomposity please. 

 

All our top universities have benefitted from global support. Of course the Cons want to limit this by tightening educational visas and clamping down on postgraduate employment. Morons

I think I'll keep the 'pomposity' level right where it is thanks, as it remains a valid point. What does the fact of me attending or not attending the Uni have to do with anything either Grouse? Nought, that's what. You've been hung up on this from the start and it totally reveals your own pomposity with comments such as the above being a great example. Would it help assuage your suspicion and potential disdain if I told you a recent ancestor was a revered fellow and generous benefactor of Caius college and CU in general and that my family has had roots in the city with close links to local industry and the University for generations? In any case its none of your business, the point I was making is borne of valid observations re: lack of pride and self loathing, go back and read it more carefully, I never mentioned anywhere that CU or any other venerable UK institution hasn't received help from outside sources, that's an irrelevance and off topic. As it stands if you're not a graduate from an EU nation then you're not made half as welcome as one who IS and you'd need a visa to stay on, so again it's preferential treatment for Europeans, something I'd like to see changed and I don't disagree with you entirely about relaxing student visas either - but the aforementioned point overshadows it.

Edited September 19, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[Grouse]

16 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

I think I'll keep the 'pomposity' level right where it is thanks, as it remains a valid point. What does the fact of me attending or not attending the Uni have to do with anything either Grouse? Nought, that's what. You've been hung up on this from the start and it totally reveals your own pomposity with comments such as the above being a great example. Would it help assuage your suspicion and potential disdain if I told you a recent ancestor was a revered fellow and generous benefactor of Caius college and CU in general and that my family has had roots in the city with close links to local industry and the University for generations? In any case its none of your business, the point I was making is borne of valid observations re: lack of pride and self loathing, go back and read it more carefully, I never mentioned anywhere that CU or any other venerable UK institution hasn't received help from outside sources, that's an irrelevance and off topic. As it stands if you're not a graduate from an EU nation then you're not made half as welcome as one who IS and you'd need a visa to stay on, so again it's preferential treatment for Europeans, something I'd like to see changed and I don't disagree with you entirely about relaxing student visas either - but the aforementioned point overshadows it.

OK

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

15 hours ago, Grouse said:

Social democracy? You won't find it in America! Look at the Gini coefficients, look where happy countries are....

 

The EU is far from perfect but there are many far worse places.

I would agree, it is far from perfect and also that there are plenty of worse places, the EU is responsible for some good things as well as the bad, I'd never pretend otherwise. I'm not making comparisons between it and the US either, I'm simply pointing out it is not some big serene, altruistic set up designed to empower the working man as some people seem to think differently, mistakenly. It has, however, got more things wrong than right IMO and the things it has got right can be replicated by nation states easily enough. It has served a purpose in our continents' recent past, but that purpose is long since redundant and moreover it has developed into something it was never originally designed to be nor were these developments ever voted for by its constituents. 

Edited September 19, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[tebee]

Ouch - Someone on the leave side who agrees with me about the total ignorance and incompetence of the current government.  

 

Can it really be the case that our prime minister believes that Efta/EEA States are part of the customs union, yet that's what she tells us in a promotion film for her Chequers plan, asserting that a relationship built on the one Norway has with the EU "would also involve membership of the customs union which means we couldn't strike our own trade deals".

If the woman isn't telling a deliberate, unconscionable lie, then she is more ignorant than we could possibly have imagined.

 

....

 

 The point, of course, is that the EU cannot deliver the flexibility that Mr Raab wants, and there was never any likelihood that it could, thus, if at this late stage, it is still being expected by the UK team, led by a prime minister spouting error-strewn propaganda about the Chequers plan, we must consider the possibility that we are dealing with people so ignorant that they haven't the competence to see the Brexit talks to a successful conclusion. 

 

.....

 

http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86998

[sandyf]

13 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

I do get that, there are mountains of deals to be done and agreements to be made.  But just because something is complicated doesn't mean we shouldn't do it.

And just because it will get done does not mean it will get done quickly. This was the whole idea behind the transition period but there are those that are trying to put a stop on the transition, so why try and ridicule someone trying to take precautions.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

14 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Thank you for the well balanced response.  We don't know where we are going to end up after Brexit and if there will be any positives when we do.  I understand your arguments for leaving and we must surely end up with something positive out of it.  However I fear the negatives will far outweigh any positives than can be got out of the negotiations.  However that is a conversation for after we leave and the dust has settled.  Until then we are all p*ssing in the wind.

 

Every day something new is announced but until it is written in blood... I mean ink, then it doesn't count.

 

You're welcome. Balanced and constructive conversation is what we should try for, NOT emotional ad-hominem attacks or further divisive and derogatory comments aimed from one side to the other, as tempting as that can be at times.

 

The British public (much like the Americans) have been so severely polarised for the last couple of years, that increased unification is becoming paramount. We have voted to exit, the majority have spoken and the initial steps are being undertaken - this is the reality. I am hopeful that we will leave and that being the case, the public need to rediscover some kind of solidarity to ensure the country progresses, that we don't sabotage ourselves and that a post-Brexit UK can realise its full potential, something that will be a hell of a lot easier if everyone can get on the same page.

 

There are positives for remaining and for leaving, I think any balanced and sensible onlooker would agree to that, it simply comes down to whether you think the arguments for the former or the latter are stronger and/or more numerous. The way Brexit proceedings have been dealt with has been woefully confused and inept, to put it kindly. That is a reflection on the political class and, IMO, due in no small part to the fact that many of those involved are being pushed into making arrangements for something that they don't want to see enacted anyway, for selfish or ideological reasons. Those truly representing their constituents MUST do as they have instructed OR resign and refuse the pay check they get for doing this job, to me, it's as simple as that. Moreover, if they remain in their jobs, they should get on with them with the all the competence and good will that they are capable of.

 

No one knows for sure yet what the outcome will be, these are unprecedented actions being undertaken and exciting, if slightly unsettling times.  The positives in the end, will outweigh the negatives, I think. It could be a real tonic for the UK, but for that to happen faster and more smoothly the country will need strong leadership from individuals who are willing to get on with the job in hand, put personal gain aside and listen to the people. In short - be an honest, proper politician and leader. The public will have to get behind such decisions as best they can and put their petty differences aside in time too, enough nay-saying, cynicism and repudiations. The UK needs to make the best of whatever comes its way now, as I think we still have the ability to do, and embrace our future with open arms, a clear collective head and a positive outlook.

 

I remain optimistic. ?

 

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[rixalex]

12 minutes ago, tebee said:

Ouch - Someone on the leave side who agrees with me about the total ignorance and incompetence of the current government.  

 

Can it really be the case that our prime minister believes that Efta/EEA States are part of the customs union, yet that's what she tells us in a promotion film for her Chequers plan, asserting that a relationship built on the one Norway has with the EU "would also involve membership of the customs union which means we couldn't strike our own trade deals".

If the woman isn't telling a deliberate, unconscionable lie, then she is more ignorant than we could possibly have imagined.

 

....

 

 The point, of course, is that the EU cannot deliver the flexibility that Mr Raab wants, and there was never any likelihood that it could, thus, if at this late stage, it is still being expected by the UK team, led by a prime minister spouting error-strewn propaganda about the Chequers plan, we must consider the possibility that we are dealing with people so ignorant that they haven't the competence to see the Brexit talks to a successful conclusion. 

 

.....

 

http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86998

Who have you heard, from any side, arguing that the government is organised and competent?

[billd766]

13 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

 

i think the uk will take over reasonably most of the eu laws in terms of food safety and animal husbandry.

 

the UK does not have its own specific laws in this regard.

 

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/summary/chapter/food_safety.html?root_default=SUM_1_CODED%3D30&locale=en

 

But when you make your OWN food you are in control, not the UK government or the EU. Therefore you can take heed of the information available but do what you want your way.

 

If you wish to make commercially for sale, then yes you DO have to take notice of the rules. So if a company in the UK wishes to sell to an EU company then it needs to abide by the EU rules. If it does not but still wishes to sell on the UK or world market then It has to comply with other rules, which may be stricter or not.

 

The UK used to have its own rules but they were overridden by the EU rules.

 

Hence the similarity with Brexit.

[billd766]

12 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Apparently that was/is the case, no?

 

That was one case for one person only.

[aright]

6 hours ago, tebee said:

 But in this case what EU regulations are you having to comply with pre brexit ?

 

 

Nothing visible. My EU customer tells me what he want's and I supply it. Why would that change? I assume his precise requirement meets EU standards if they didn't he would be in violation if he used or sold on.  

[tebee]

1 hour ago, rixalex said:

Who have you heard, from any side, arguing that the government is organised and competent?

Yes, but many leavers chose to ignore this, in the hope they will bring them what they desire. I on the other hand, feel that any Brexit negotiated by this government will be a bad one.  

 

Quote of the day is Heseltine on Boris:

 

“A man who waits to see which way the crowd is running and then dashes in front and says ‘follow me’....”

[tebee]

18 minutes ago, aright said:

Nothing visible. My EU customer tells me what he want's and I supply it. Why would that change? I assume his precise requirement meets EU standards if they didn't he would be in violation if he used or sold on.  

Right, but if you were producing that needed to be certified - say a piece of medical equipment, you would need to get that certification done by someone in the EU post brexit, as UK certification authorities would no longer be recognized.   

[billd766]

Did somebody just blink first?

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-45566205

 

Quote from the article.

 

The EU is "ready to improve" its offer on the Irish border, Michel Barnier has said as he warned the "moment of truth" was nearing for Brexit negotiations.

The EU's negotiator said he wanted to "de-dramatise" the issue of physical checks and ensure goods arriving in Northern Ireland from the rest of the UK were processed away from the border.

He also said any backstop solution must respect the UK's territorial integrity.

It comes as Theresa May prepares to win support for her plans from EU leaders.

[rixalex]

17 minutes ago, tebee said:

Yes, but many leavers chose to ignore this, in the hope they will bring them what they desire. I on the other hand, feel that any Brexit negotiated by this government will be a bad one.  

 

Quote of the day is Heseltine on Boris:

 

“A man who waits to see which way the crowd is running and then dashes in front and says ‘follow me’....”

Leavers don't ignore the incompetence of the government, but what alternative is there exactly? Of all the parties, they are the ones who have been most consistent on Brexit. Labour changes from one week to the next. The Lib Dems are set on not delivering Brexit. Conservatives it has to be.

 

Re, "I feel any Brexit negotiated by this government will be a bad one", i get the impression from all your stated views that ANY Brexit in your eyes would be bad, unless it was Brexit in name only, and actually didn't amount to us leaving really at all. That would be your "good" Brexit.

 

Re quoting Heseltine, from yesterday's comments you made about toffs from public school, i'm surprised you pay much attention to a man like him. Or does being pro-EU make him one of the good toffs that we can trust? His quote anyway doesn't seem that accurate as when it came to the crunch, Boris didn't run to the front and say "follow me", he ran to the back and said, "follow someone else".

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

You're welcome. Balanced and constructive conversation is what we should try for, NOT emotional ad-hominem attacks or further divisive and derogatory comments aimed from one side to the other, as tempting as that can be at times.

 

The British public (much like the Americans) have been so severely polarised for the last couple of years, that increased unification is becoming paramount. We have voted to exit, the majority have spoken and the initial steps are being undertaken - this is the reality. I am hopeful that we will leave and that being the case, the public need to rediscover some kind of solidarity to ensure the country progresses, that we don't sabotage ourselves and that a post-Brexit UK can realise its full potential, something that will be a hell of a lot easier if everyone can get on the same page.

 

There are positives for remaining and for leaving, I think any balanced and sensible onlooker would agree to that, it simply comes down to whether you think the arguments for the former or the latter are stronger and/or more numerous. The way Brexit proceedings have been dealt with has been woefully confused and inept, to put it kindly. That is a reflection on the political class and, IMO, due in no small part to the fact that many of those involved are being pushed into making arrangements for something that they don't want to see enacted anyway, for selfish or ideological reasons. Those truly representing their constituents MUST do as they have instructed OR resign and refuse the pay check they get for doing this job, to me, it's as simple as that. Moreover, if they remain in their jobs, they should get on with them with the all the competence and good will that they are capable of.

 

No one knows for sure yet what the outcome will be, these are unprecedented actions being undertaken and exciting, if slightly unsettling times.  The positives in the end, will outweigh the negatives, I think. It could be a real tonic for the UK, but for that to happen faster and more smoothly the country will need strong leadership from individuals who are willing to get on with the job in hand, put personal gain aside and listen to the people. In short - be an honest, proper politician and leader. The public will have to get behind such decisions as best they can and put their petty differences aside in time too, enough nay-saying, cynicism and repudiations. The UK needs to make the best of whatever comes its way now, as I think we still have the ability to do, and embrace our future with open arms, a clear collective head and a positive outlook.

 

I remain optimistic. ?

 

 

"Those truly representing their constituentsMUST do as they have instructed OR resign and refuse the pay check they get for doing this job, to me, it's as simple as that. Moreover, if they remain in their jobs, they should get on with them with the all the competence and good will that they are capable of."

 

Erudite post EXCEPT for the above. How many more times to have to explain this. Your MP is not your delegate. He is there to act in the best interest of the country, his constituents and his party. In that order. The reasons are obvious and I'm sure you actually know how and why our representative democracy works even if our electoral system doesn't.

 

There are advantages and disadvantages to both leave and remain. At the start, I was 60/40 remain. Now I'm at 90/10

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

21 minutes ago, Grouse said:

"Those truly representing their constituentsMUST do as they have instructed OR resign and refuse the pay check they get for doing this job, to me, it's as simple as that. Moreover, if they remain in their jobs, they should get on with them with the all the competence and good will that they are capable of."

 

Erudite post EXCEPT for the above. How many more times to have to explain this. Your MP is not your delegate. He is there to act in the best interest of the country, his constituents and his party. In that order. The reasons are obvious and I'm sure you actually know how and why our representative democracy works even if our electoral system doesn't.

 

There are advantages and disadvantages to both leave and remain. At the start, I was 60/40 remain. Now I'm at 90/10

 

Thank you for the compliment Grouse, I respect your opinion even if it differs from mine. I know what you're saying is technically correct and there has been some ongoing discussion on this throughout the thread, however a previous poster (apologies, I forget who) summed it up it rather well by saying something along the lines of: 

 

if the (any) MP's constituency returned a 70% vote for Leave, but his personal choice was to Remain and he then returned a remain vote in a parliamentary MP's vote, even if he believes he is best serving the country, how is that representative democracy? As the 70% majority won't have been represented.

 

Again, I understand there are of course some nuances to the counter-argument, but to me if parliamentary democracy is to have a chance of being effective then those in power have to place a certain amount of faith in the electorate and heed their voice/will. Particularly in a referendum of this kind, which is different to standard electoral processes. Whether or not having the decision made by a referendum of the people was a sensible idea or not is a separate point, that is what happened and the result is what it is. People need to accept and move on, with our ships sailing in the same direction.

 

People in power intentionally muddying the waters and stalling for time etc. is simply unacceptable and supremely childish, not what we should expect of elected representatives, even if we have just cause to. It's a little idealistic perhaps, but this whole Brexit mess, for me, just typifies the ineptitude and self-serving attitudes that we have become accustomed to from these people. It ain't good enough and it needs to change! This is the prime cause, I would say, that people such as yourself who started off with a more neutral view of the Brexit proposition are now exasperated and may be leaning towards a reversal / 2nd referendum? I think for those of us who voted for fundamental reasons - it's a little bit 'deck chairs on the Titanic', but it is fairly important in the short term, I would admit.

 

I shall wait with bated breath. ?

 

 

  

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[rixalex]

5 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Erudite post EXCEPT for the above. How many more times to have to explain this. Your MP is not your delegate. He is there to act in the best interest of the country, his constituents and his party. In that order. The reasons are obvious and I'm sure you actually know how and why our representative democracy works even if our electoral system doesn't.

And how many times does it have to be explained to you that in this case, the MPs, acting in the best interest of the country, their constituents and their party, in their role as representatives of the people, collectively voted in favour of allowing the general public decide. They turned the decision over to us. Nobody put a gun to their heads. THEY made that decision. And they promised they would stick to it.

 

Technically, can they go back on that promise? Of course they can. Just as the President of the USA can most likely pardon himself if he wants to.

 

There are lots of thing people in positions of power CAN do, be they politicians or otherwise. Doesn't mean they SHOULD.

 

Sad to see how quickly some people seem prepared to ditch basic democratic values, using legal technicalities as their defense, just to get their way. If they succeed, there will be a price to pay.

[CG1 Blue]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

Did somebody just blink first?

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-45566205

 

Quote from the article.

 

The EU is "ready to improve" its offer on the Irish border, Michel Barnier has said as he warned the "moment of truth" was nearing for Brexit negotiations.

The EU's negotiator said he wanted to "de-dramatise" the issue of physical checks and ensure goods arriving in Northern Ireland from the rest of the UK were processed away from the border.

He also said any backstop solution must respect the UK's territorial integrity.

It comes as Theresa May prepares to win support for her plans from EU leaders.

As many of us suspected, the Irish border issue has simply been used as a stick to beat us with. The EU negotiators know full well that things like this can be resolved in this day and age.