Money stolen from bank account.

[Wastingmytime]

Early February 2017 I had 200,000 thb stolen from my Kasikorn Bank account via the ATM machine. My own thoughts on this (I have no proof) is that a "visitor" to my room whilst I was on holiday took the card and unfortunately I  didn't realize It was missing until I returned home and turned the mobile phone with my Thai SIM inside, then the Kasikorn alerts started coming through to say money had been withdrawn..How they learned the pin number I have no Idea.

I have sent countless emails to Kasikorn since then, also been  in touch with  BOT after I learned that The Ombudsman was unable to help with financial/bank problems.

I've returned to Thailand on two occasions to try and get things sorted out and make police reports but to date a police investigation is yet to even start!

Kasikorn Bank have not been very helpful at all In my opinion, on at least 2 occasions they have insinuated that they think I am lieing and taken the money myself and there are often long gaps in-between emails which I,m sure is  done in the hope that I will just fade away and give  up ..which I won,t!

Now Kasikorn have told me to contact the police directly which is not easy as I do not live in Thailand and speak no Thai, so must rely on an Interpreter being available when I call. The last time I called to see if there was any progress the Lieutenant in charge of my case told me he was still waiting for some papers from Kasikorn Bank.,  I informed Kasikorn of this some 2 weeks ago and have heard nothing since...which is normal for them to keep me waiting weeks in-between emails.

I'm not a Thai citizen and no way am I currently in a position to hire a lawyer or incur any more expense ect...so where to go from here?.

Thank you for taking the time to read my problem and your views or advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Magneto]

Its a sad story indeed and i understand your frustration but atleast in the country im from one is solely responsible for ones card to be secure. If you willingly let someone sty at your condo and your card was up for grabs they will hold you personally responsible for your loss. 

If you can show evidence of a break in or proofs of theft it can be different. Also the timeframe of the crime till you reported it will be on you, if it did take a long time between the theft and you noticing it will aslo, unfortunately, point to neglect on your side however good reasons you might have. 

I wish you the best of luck.

[cyril sneer]

apt username

[geriatrickid]

I take it that  the 200,000 was withdrawn over a period of time. You do not mention  if there were multiple atms and how many withdrawals. That is relevant.

 

If done from an atm, the transaction would have been captured on the camera.

If you gave notice upon discovery, then the bank should have been able to verify the images. You have to make a case and right now, simply complaining about the bank won't help.Gather the dates and amounts and present that.  If you  allowed some time 30-60-90 days + to elapse before you checked your account, than sorry to say you are most likely liable under your electronic banking agreement.

Edited September 11, 2018 by geriatrickid

[NCC1701A]

what does your statement say? ATM cash or in store use? 

 

how many times was the card used? 200,000 / 20,000 is 10 withdrawals over 10 days.

 

what is the banks written policy on debt card fraud?

 

1 hour ago, Wastingmytime said:

is that a "visitor" to my room

you mean like a girl? ID left at front desk? 

 

1 hour ago, Wastingmytime said:

Early February 2017

wow CCTV most likely gone now.

[stevenl]

Since somebody apparently obtained not only  the card but also the PIN, sorry, your own mistake.

Edited September 11, 2018 by stevenl

[wgdanson]

But of course, you do not need a PIN in order to buy something with a card, just sign ANYTHING. Mickey Mouse paid for my last Toyota service.

[stevenl]

Just now, wgdanson said:

But of course, you do not need a PIN in order to buy something with a card, just sign ANYTHING. Mickey Mouse paid for my last Toyota service.

OP said money taken from ATM.

[kingstonkid]

OP if you waited this long it is gone. I can sympathize with you I have had card used as well.  The only thing the police can do is investigate the same as in any country until it is proven as theft banks will do nothing.  If you knew who did it then reported them it would help but you have to be here to press charges

[xtrnuno41]

You used your your card sometime with an atm machine? 

Probably then your card was copied and a cam on top records your pin.

Look on top, above the keypath if there is something.

Look at the card slide in if there is not an additional device, juggle with it (google atm machine fraud) 

You have to be aware with atm machines, they install those items (cardcopier+ cam)

Dont think easy and first all ways inspect the atm real good. Then still maybe cover up your hand while pinning.

NEVER think easy about your pin, COVER your hand ! Look who is around you.

It's a very commonly used way to get your money. Already, i think year ago, they warned in thaivisa about phuket

having such atm's. You could see, but have to be very aware of it and check really good.

In the UK there were lots of them at one time, bulgarian mob.

Nowadays you also have to be aware, they can skim your card while you have it in your pocket, with a device

in a innocent bag. They are really close to you then. Then they need your pin and you are observed when you use it.

They make a card with retrieved data and the seen pin and can redraw money from your account.

You should use a metal cover for your cards to prevent they can skim it.

[mstevens]

I was always under the impression that ATM machines had a camera which records images of the person making any transaction.  Surely the first thing the bank would do is check the records to see if the person who made the withdrawals was you?  If they have not done that then why not?

[Straight8]

As your nic says.... you're wasting your time.

[Wastingmytime]

3 hours ago, Magneto said:

Its a sad story indeed and i understand your frustration but atleast in the country im from one is solely responsible for ones card to be secure. If you willingly let someone sty at your condo and your card was up for grabs they will hold you personally responsible for your loss. 

If you can show evidence of a break in or proofs of theft it can be different. Also the timeframe of the crime till you reported it will be on you, if it did take a long time between the theft and you noticing it will aslo, unfortunately, point to neglect on your side however good reasons you might have. 

I wish you the best of luck.

Mmm, I think your right,,so my only hope  would be for the police to catch the person who did it and then for that person to re-pay the money...which seems a bit of a long shot! Thanks for your reply Magneto.

[ronaldo0]

I'm guessing you gave them copy of your passport page stating where you were during the withdrawals  ?

[jippytum]

 Sorry to hear of your loss. However you unfortunately  must bear some If not all of the responsibility .It would have been easy to protect yourself and to take the card with you . Now after a  time lapse and ignored warning messages from the bank it is not surprising they consider your claim to be suspicious.

[Wastingmytime]

I reported this 7/2/2017..10 transactions were made be-tween 3/2/2017 - 6/2/2017.

When I first called Kasikorn on 7/2/2017 and explained that I was back in Cambodia which is where I live and I was wrongly advised by the lady on the phone that I could make a police report here in Cambodia and that would enable things to move forward...I made the report that same day but of course I was given the wrong arvice and nothing moved forward!..Wasting time and the CCTV images are well gone.

2 of the transactions were done as transfers at the ATM so my last glimmer of hope is that the police can do something with the details from this.

Incidentally, when I went to Thailand and made the police report they told me I was would get the money back...as Kasikorn are insured for this sort of thing! ?

[Searat7]

This incident shows why it is best to have two baht savings accounts, transferring money to the account with ATM card attached only as needed which keeps exposure low.

[Media1]

On 9/11/2018 at 11:45 AM, Magneto said:

Its a sad story indeed and i understand your frustration but atleast in the country im from one is solely responsible for ones card to be secure. If you willingly let someone sty at your condo and your card was up for grabs they will hold you personally responsible for your loss. 

If you can show evidence of a break in or proofs of theft it can be different. Also the timeframe of the crime till you reported it will be on you, if it did take a long time between the theft and you noticing it will aslo, unfortunately, point to neglect on your side however good reasons you might have. 

I wish you the best of luck.

Yes not enough info. I assume the house guest was a bar banger and she and Somchai worked out your pin 

You are very very wrong leaving anythibg of such nature <removed>

Edited September 12, 2018 by CharlieH
Thai derogatory term removed

[Colabamumbai]

You may have more luck with the Tourist Police, usually have English speakers..

[Media1]

4 hours ago, Magneto said:

Its a sad story indeed and i understand your frustration but atleast in the country im from one is solely responsible for ones card to be secure. If you willingly let someone sty at your condo and your card was up for grabs they will hold you personally responsible for your loss. 

If you can show evidence of a break in or proofs of theft it can be different. Also the timeframe of the crime till you reported it will be on you, if it did take a long time between the theft and you noticing it will aslo, unfortunately, point to neglect on your side however good reasons you might have. 

I wish you the best of luck.

The only hope is locating the ho. Unfortunately the money is already gone. 

I had a similar situation. Early days my mum's white gold diamond small diamonds. A gift before she died. Engraved a for stole it and sent a sorry sms. She blocked the number. So 1 day later got a mate to call to meet 

Bingo caught the ho. A few little torture techniques worked a treat off to the pawn shop. She paid to avoid police. Her finger was still intact to

[Krataiboy]

3 hours ago, stevenl said:

OP said money taken from ATM.

Yeah, but. . .  a few years back I was alerted by a phone call from the security dept of my offshore bank that someone had attempted to raid my account via an ATM in Thailand. I didn't believe this was possible, as I had never used the card, never divulged the pin and assumed that without the number it was impossible to get to the menu needed to make a withdrawal.

 

The security people conjectured that somebody must have got hold of my pin. When I told him I had never written the number down, never used it and couldn't even remember what it was, he hinted that it was possible to make withdrawals without a pin. He would not tell me how this could be done "for obvious security reasons", so I'm none the wiser. Maybe he was just spinning me a line because he didn't believe I'd kept my pin secure, but didn't want to get into a head-to-head with a customer.

[Bangkok Barry]

1 hour ago, ronaldo0 said:

I'm guessing you gave them copy of your passport page stating where you were during the withdrawals  ?

 

That would make no difference, as they could say he got someone else to make the withdrawals.

[Monkeyrobot]

Maybe you got skimmed  and I was not the visitor to your room, it happens a lot here and if you don’t cover the keypad when putting in your pin then they can copy your card and know your pin. Saying that normally the bank knows this is the case as the are multible people skimmed from that particular ATM . Maybe they just don’t want to give the cash back? Where you back in your home country when the withdrawals occurred? you need to build a case to present to the bank and be prepared for a long wait. good Luck 200K is like 6,000 US 

[Ebumbu]

Sorry about your loss. The rule of thumb here: 

 

1) Main savings account must have absolutely no ATM card. 

2) Secondary accounts can have ATM cards. You move as much as you need, when you need it with the online banking or phone app. 

3) I use my entire body, hands, head, and arms to cover up my pin when I enter it. I may seem strange. But, it probably helps. 

4) Use the same, trusted ATMs every time. Try to avoid going to unfamiliar ones. Going to your own bank's ATM is best, and may save you withdrawal fees. 

Edited September 11, 2018 by Ebumbu
Adding info.

[impulse]

2 hours ago, Media1 said:

Yes not enough info. I assume the house guest was a bar banger and she and Somchai worked out your pin 

You are very very wrong leaving anythibg of such nature with these monkey's 

 

I'd bet it's more likely his card was skimmed by a perfect stranger at a dodgy ATM than hijacked by a house guest who divined the PIN.  

 

 

[Wastingmytime]

As I said I have no proof whatsoever so I really can,t start pointing fingers. I normally have quite a few "guests" to my apartment when I,m in Thailand so that only narrowed it down to about 3 people over the last few days of my holiday ..My own thoughts were that the card had been taken from the room by one of my guests and then probably passed on to someone with a bit more savvy when I comes to getting money out and used when I had left...but that's just my guess..I shall just have to hope the police have some success but I can,t see that somehow either

 

[The Deerhunter]

Ever the cynic I am guessing there is a good chance (but not an absolute certainty) that it is a combination of a thieving visitor and a simple pin number based on your year of birth or one of the other common mistakes in pin number selection.  Hope I'm wrong for your sake.

[The Deerhunter]

Thought more but went past my edit time. Other possibilities are a skimmers or your visitor looking over your shoulder if you had to draw more money on the way home.  It is a horrible worry and one I have lost sleep over too.  Had a wallet stolen in my home country one night and was cancelling cards with my bank in the middle of the night. And another couple of other nasty experiences a few decades ago. For someone who likes visitors as I have been known to do, I take as little as possible when I go out.  I would never open my room safe with another person in the room including even in the toilet.  You don't want them suddenly appearing while the safe is open.  And actually for simplicity and safety I recommend you always use short time rooms.  Saved me so many problems over the last 25-30 years. 

[Puritan]

It's one thing for someone to steal your card, but another to have the pin enabling them to withdraw money.

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

I reported this 7/2/2017..10 transactions were made be-tween 3/2/2017 - 6/2/2017. When I first called Kasikorn on 7/2/2017 and explained that I was back in Cambodia which is where I live and I was wrongly advised by the lady on the phone that I could make a police report here in Cambodia and that would enable things to move forward...I made the report that same day but of course I was given the wrong arvice and nothing moved forward!..Wasting time and the CCTV images are well gone.

2 of the transactions were done as transfers at the ATM so my last glimmer of hope is that the police can do something with the details from this.

Incidentally, when I went to Thailand and made the police report they told me I was would get the money back...as Kasikorn are insured for this sort of thing! [emoji846]

 

10 transactions over a 3 month period is an inside job. Sounds like one of your girlfriends was withdrawing smaller amounts you might not notice. She might have caught your pin code while standing nearby. Then she pick-pokets your wallet during dinner. “I go toilet now” means go ATM. After you are milked of funds wallet returned Unless it is skimming by third parties no chance Of any return by bank Stop “wasting time”