BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[balo]

I think the agents will just get more business out of this . 

For a 20k fee you can borrow 800k and they have contacts with immigration directly .  I do not believe that Big Joke will succeed in kicking out 100 000 westerners  just because they do not have 800k available every year.  That's my opinion about this , we'll see in 6 months time. 

 

 

 

[mstevens]

10 hours ago, smedly said:

The only people affected by this are those that cannot produce the income statements or bank balance

And there lies the rub.....many people cannot manage this and have been using the loophole to get their visa extension.

[Mark1066]

1 hour ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

read the original post , it says there you need three things to open a bank account in thailand, one of them is residency certificate. as i mentioned, those might be new regulations coming now now.

I did read your post. You stated banks NOW require a residence certificate to open a new account. You are wrong. They do not.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

1 hour ago, Mark1066 said:

I did read your post. You stated banks NOW require a residence certificate to open a new account. You are wrong. They do not.

NOT MY POST. THE original post to which we are replying here.

[gk10002000]

12 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

I’m going to the US Consulate next week to get my Income Affidavit.  Of course the US never certifies anything(it is just an Affirmation Under Oath). I will ask if the US Consulate has plans to terminate this sevice?  In my case the 800K deposit is a no-go and direct depositing my pension into any Foreign Banks is also a no-go.  Maybe my time in LOS is coming to end soon?  

I will NOT have a pension.  I have passive but regular income from Dividends and interest from stocks and bonds.  I would NEVER setup any sort of automatic transfer anywhere.  I would transfer monies as needed. In many cases since I return home often, I would just bring back $10,000 USD a few times a year, and would then use an ATM or make 1 or 2 transfers or withdrawals as needed.  Now this issue has been discussed before.  Will the Thais really enforce a monthly transfer?  That is so old fashioned and presumes one has a regular never changing pension.  And even if one has a pension, they may not be direct depositing it all into Thailand each month!  Some pension funds and sources do allow multiple direct deposits, some don't.  I know so many Thais have no idea of investment income but only understand monthly pensions/retirement things.

[ukrules]

19 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

I will NOT have a pension.  I have passive but regular income from Dividends and interest from stocks and bonds.  I would NEVER setup any sort of automatic transfer anywhere.  I would transfer monies as needed. In many cases since I return home often, I would just bring back $10,000 USD a few times a year, and would then use an ATM or make 1 or 2 transfers or withdrawals as needed.  Now this issue has been discussed before.  Will the Thais really enforce a monthly transfer?  That is so old fashioned and presumes one has a regular never changing pension.  And even if one has a pension, they may not be direct depositing it all into Thailand each month!  Some pension funds and sources do allow multiple direct deposits, some don't.  I know so many Thais have no idea of investment income but only understand monthly pensions/retirement things.

Does it really matter where the money comes from?

 

For example I wire myself 100k Baht or so each month depending on how much I think I will be spending, I'm pretty sure that would be acceptable just like if I wired myself an extra 800k and left it sitting in the account permanently.

 

I transfer this from my personal account which is back in the UK.

 

There was a very recent announcement about people being removed from the country within a month. The timing here is quite telling.

 

How can they make this happen (the one month thing)? The only way I can think of is that they hold the Embassy responsible for the costs of repatriation.

 

The embassy rightly won't want anything to do with that as it's a liability over which they have no control. So in order to continue issuing guarantee letters they would need to amke sure they're correct. That's not the job of an embassy.

 

I expect pretty much all embassies to follow suit in the coming months.

 

This is just my theory at the moment.

[Jim P]

1 hour ago, ukrules said:

Does it really matter where the money comes from?

 

For example I wire myself 100k Baht or so each month depending on how much I think I will be spending, I'm pretty sure that would be acceptable just like if I wired myself an extra 800k and left it sitting in the account permanently.

 

I transfer this from my personal account which is back in the UK.

 

There was a very recent announcement about people being removed from the country within a month. The timing here is quite telling.

 

How can they make this happen (the one month thing)? The only way I can think of is that they hold the Embassy responsible for the costs of repatriation.

 

The embassy rightly won't want anything to do with that as it's a liability over which they have no control. So in order to continue issuing guarantee letters they would need to amke sure they're correct. That's not the job of an embassy.

 

I expect pretty much all embassies to follow suit in the coming months.

 

This is just my theory at the moment.

That`s exactly as I see it, wire money each month in excess of 65,000 baht through Transferwise thus not keeping any significant amount sitting doing nothing in a Thai bank. Only thing looking at my mobile banking tonight is that it shows up as `No book cash deposit` which doesn`t prove it from my UK account.

[Joe Mcseismic]

5 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

Many of the quasi so-called legal lease agreements are fraudulent. Farang married to a Thai wife, buys land and a house in her name, gets Thai wife to give him a long term lease agreement, Farang thinks he has got around the laws and he is safe. But no he is not and if I know it, so does immigration. These people are part of the problem that makes the immigration processes tougher for me each year and others like me that stay in Thailand by the book.

 

"There could be untold billions of dollars at stake". Are you serious? Untold billions in what, illegal land and business ownerships? Big foreign companies and legitimate foreign company owners that invest in Thailand do so in collaboration and with the approval of the Thai government, they employ Thai people, pay taxes and bring revenue into the country. I am sure these companies are not shaking in their boots over the British embassy notice issued today and neither am I. 

 

The old point of reasoning, Farangs that cannot meet the immigration requirements or live strictly by the laws, but because they are plying billions of dollars into the country and spend more than the locals should be overlooked, has how become like a bad joke that`s being told over and over again.

 

 

Bit off topic, but couldn't let this falsehood pass. There is nothing illegal about a foreigner leasing land for 30 years from a Thai. Be it your wife, or not. 

[alphason]

5 hours ago, blackhorse said:

My strong urging is for the British expats to not sit on your hands and start a petition and demand answers. Jam up the embassy switch boards tomorrow all day!!

Thai immigration have no such announcement.

THE ball is in your court ATM

 

I think if enough of us start emailing or calling maybe they will realise the huge implications of this, and at least provide more clarity.

 

Perhaps they know something we don't and have made this statement too early before immigration have announced any changes? They should be sharing what they know if this is the case.

 

According to the Brit Embassies What do I do now you can prove income by showing the funds coming into a Thai bank, either the BE don't understand how it works in reality or there is some change coming that has not been announced yet.

We need to know how this works, how many months of income (net) coming in needs to be shown, 3 months like the 400/800K on deposit or 12 months of income, can you just show your Thai bank book as evidence to Immigration?? so many questions.

 

Would also be good to confirm that letters issued before 12 Dec will still be good for 6 months, those with extensions due in the first few months of 2019 need to be able to plan ahead. Can we get a letter early and know it will still be good in 6 months, if not we need to know about the alternative way to proved income the Embassy mentions, if there really is one.

 

If this only affects the Brit Embassy will other Embassies be willing to issue the income letter, I have read before about Brits using the Irish embassies letter.

 

 

 

 

[smedly]

12 hours ago, SooKee said:

Given I transfer monthly to Thailand, in excess of their minimums, and have done since I've lived here (provided they accept the bank statements / book as proof of this, accompanied maybe by a letter from the pension authority) I'm hoping this announcement won't be much of a hurdle (seeing as they haven't done away with the monthly pension qualification.  If that gets accepted the only thing I'll be regretting is paying the embassy £52 for a letter every year since I've been here! 

exactly, my understanding of this is that things just got easier, I maintain the balance of over 800k in my Thai bank account and have never used the income method even though I have a monthly pension currently paid into my UK bank, I do 2x transfers a year into my Thai bank which currently contributes nothing to the income requirement which would have required the Embassy letter.

 

Now it seems that the transfers I make 2x a year may possibly be used as income over 12 months removing the need to maintain an 800k Thai bank balance for 3 months, of course this now needs to be clarified by Thai Immigration as to what qualifies as their income requirements something they should have done along with this announcement so that people understood what they will need going forward.

 

So some clarification needs to now follow as to what the "income" requirements are for those that rely on this method for their annual extension, as usual in Thailand they have not explained this correctly with these changes and people have been left with some confusion and uncertainty.

[AhFarangJa]

An Australian acquaintance of mine goes to his Embassy in Bangkok every year with a self printed letter saying how much his pension is, which covers the minimum requirement. I believe he pays about 2K Baht for the stamp. I appreciate this is an affidavit under oath, and the Embassy is not liable for the content, but if this service is removed he has big problems, as, I guess, will many more Expats. The screws seem to be tightening. 

Can anyone recommend a quiet, clean place in Cambodia please....

[jensmann]

just got my income letter from the german embassy with no further comment.

valid for my extension in january 2019

[Esso49]

Just to cheer everybody up it's just fake news. 

 

The French hacked the BE computer system and sent the spoof email out to those Brits who registered with them in retaliation for the fact the Brits are exiting the EU and the French can't ????

[Aforek]

16 hours ago, Pilotman said:

They are worse than that, they are useless, incompetent, ineffective morons.  Well done the Brits, thanks for your support for your Citizens. So now we have to deposit our hard earned money into an incompetent Thai banking system, aided by our own Embassy.  I am beyone angry 

For two years, I have decided to have 800000 bahts in a fixed account, no problem, I don't think that Thai banking system is incompetent

my embassy sure will do the same than the others, so I am happy to have my 800 000 bahts already, I can think of something else 

[smedly]

6 hours ago, blackhorse said:

My strong urging is for the British expats to not sit on your hands and start a petition and demand answers. Jam up the embassy switch boards tomorrow all day!!

Thai immigration have no such announcement.

THE ball is in your court ATM

what is the point of the British Embassy giving you a letter that Thai Immigration won't accept as proof of income ?  Sure go ahead and pressure them into continuing this service - pay your 50quid for a useless piece of paper if you want lol

 

The Issue now is that Thai Immigration need to clarify what they will now accept  as income proof - simple as that, if fact if my understanding of what it means going forward - things just got a whole lot easier for people now not needing a useless letter from Their Embassy

[Gudge]

When I go to the Canadian embassy in Bangkok for a letter confirming income I take my income tax forms from last year and have never had a problem as it is guaranteed proof of yearly income. In and out in a couple of hours

[watso63]

It is really simple. Open a Foreign Currency Deposit Account. At the moment I have my pension paid into my UK bank account because I want to keep it as I have some investments paid into there too. It costs exactly £0:00 to transfer £ sterling into the FCD. The money sits in there as £ sterling until with the click of a mouse transfer it into my savings account in Thai baht. I get to choose when if I wish to play the exhange rate guessing game. The transfer costs are very reasonable and I get the bank's TTF rate which is excellent only losing about 0.4 baht/£. The money deposited in that account is acceptable to immigration and the bank will verify with a letter. A conversion can be done there and then on the day of application by an IO and his/her calculator. That money can easily be transferred back to the UK but we all need money to spend here, don't we? Of course it's not the only solution but it's a damned fine one in my book lol.

[JackThompson]

6 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

the law says that all money you earn all over the world must be declared and taxed in thailand.

only capital gains earned abroad are not taxed in thailand, as long as you don't bring them into

thailand in the same year you earned them.

but all other earnings, from work / business, must be taxed in thailand , if you are staying in thailand

for more than 183 days a year.

Business often amounts to "capital gains," depending on structure, but I get your point.  Key to this thread would be how pensions are treated.  Was this a recent-change? 

[Scott]

Off-topic post and reply removed.  

 

[smedly]

2 hours ago, Jim P said:

That`s exactly as I see it, wire money each month in excess of 65,000 baht through Transferwise thus not keeping any significant amount sitting doing nothing in a Thai bank. Only thing looking at my mobile banking tonight is that it shows up as `No book cash deposit` which doesn`t prove it from my UK account.

or overseas transfer 2x a year total divided by 12 to show monthly income transferred to Thailand into Thai bank

 

If this will be the case I see this as a vast improvement on the Embassy letter nonsense

 

Clarity is now required from Immigration as to what they will accept from those that want to show annual income to qualify for 12 month extension

 

I personally always wondered why my annual deposits to my Thai bank account contributed nothing towards my 12 month extension renewal - now perhaps they will.  

[fullcave]

17 hours ago, bluesofa said:

Each branch makes up its own rules - we all know that from experience.

Ask to speak with the head office and like magic, they find a way to accomplish their jog. 

[smedly]

2 hours ago, Jim P said:

That`s exactly as I see it, wire money each month in excess of 65,000 baht through Transferwise thus not keeping any significant amount sitting doing nothing in a Thai bank. Only thing looking at my mobile banking tonight is that it shows up as `No book cash deposit` which doesn`t prove it from my UK account.

The bank knows were it came from and can confirm this in a letter for immigration - not an issue

 

Only issue I see is that some people don't transfer every month - I do 2x transfers a year but I also have a running balance in excess of 800k baht for most of the year which I may not need now

 

Like I keep saying - we now need clarification from Thai immigration as to what they need for annual income proof

 

and remember that the 65k a month x12 was an annual income equal to 800k ……………………………… annual not monthly when the calculation was done

[NanLaew]

5 hours ago, balo said:

I think the agents will just get more business out of this . 

For a 20k fee you can borrow 800k and they have contacts with immigration directly .  I do not believe that Big Joke will succeed in kicking out 100 000 westerners  just because they do not have 800k available every year.  That's my opinion about this , we'll see in 6 months time. 

 

Maybe this is one of the reasons why BJ has been promoted to running the Immigration police. He got things done for the most part with the Tourist police and maybe it's the "new broom sweeps clean" aspect that needs to be considered here.

[Esso49]

Just now, smedly said:

The bank knows were it came from and can confirm this in a letter for immigration - not an issue

 

Only issue I see is that some people don't transfer every month - I do 2x transfers a year but I also have a running balance in excess of 800k baht for most of the year which I may not need now

 

Like I keep saying - we now need clarification from Thai immigration as to what then need for annual income proof

Exactly as I said yesterday Smedly, and as far as we are currently aware, there is not any requirment yet for the source of income to be from ones home country.  So any deposit into a Thai bank account including Transferwise or the like should in theory be ok.  But as we all know , this will require further definitive confirmation from Thai authorities as that will open up a can of bigger worms.

[jesimps]

17 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

I’m going to the US Consulate next week to get my Income Affidavit.  Of course the US never certifies anything(it is just an Affirmation Under Oath). I will ask if the US Consulate has plans to terminate this sevice?  In my case the 800K deposit is a no-go and direct depositing my pension into any Foreign Banks is also a no-go.  Maybe my time in LOS is coming to end soon?  

That should tell us whether if it's at the instigation of the Brit Embassy or the Thais. If they still allow the US Affirmation Under Oath, then I would say that it isn't the Thai authorities who're responsible.

[alphason]

29 minutes ago, smedly said:

what is the point of the British Embassy giving you a letter that Thai Immigration won't accept as proof of income ?  Sure go ahead and pressure them into continuing this service - pay your 50quid for a useless piece of paper if you want lol

 

The Issue now is that Thai Immigration need to clarify what they will now accept  as income proof - simple as that, if fact if my understanding of what it means going forward - things just got a whole lot easier for people now not needing a useless letter from Their Embassy 

 

8 minutes ago, smedly said:

The bank knows were it came from and can confirm this in a letter for immigration - not an issue

 

Only issue I see is that some people don't transfer every month - I do 2x transfers a year but I also have a running balance in excess of 800k baht for most of the year which I may not need now

 

Like I keep saying - we now need clarification from Thai immigration as to what then need for annual income proof

Agreed , this is what we all should be asking the BE, they have offered 2 alternatives 400/800K held on deposit in a Thai bank, or 40/65K monthly income into a Thai bank - we need to know how this works.

[BEngBKK]

Preparing for Brexit ???

 

[Lovethailandelite]

It all states quite clearly what will be required on the UK Government website what will be required after 1st January 2019 when no more letters are issued. The money MUST then be in a Thai bank account either 800k lump sum or 65k a month income proved by a letter from your THAI BANK. The money MUST come into Thailand

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/british-embassy-bangkok-to-stop-certification-of-income-letters

[ChrisY1]

I would be very surprised in Thai immigration did not know what's been the case here for years....the ~20k "fee" for a retirement visa has been a huge money maker for various Imm. branches.....and I doubt for one minute that anything will change

[ps21]

“How to open a bank account in Thailand”. The BE poster says proof of residence required .... How can get proof of residence to open the bank account, if you don’t yet have the visa to enable you to be resident or have I missed something?