BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[Runamile]

If our embassies couldn't or wouldn't properly check any more I question the ability or willingness of the Thai authorities to do so.  Will they informally introduce a rule of 65K a month so long as it comes into the Thai bank account in an easy to check one or two monthly payments, and preferably with the word "Pension" attached to the details? I find the income issue not, in theory, a great concern. In reality I find the will anybody be bothered to check in difficult detail issue a huge concern.

[roath]

Just now, Chicken George said:

Read the original post.. The Brit Embassy cannot varify peopkes income.. Too many using fake bank statements etc.. If you cant fufill the requirement or do not have funds go home.. 

There is absolutely no need for posts like this, and frankly it's ignorant anyway for a number of reasons

 

I don't personally believe that fake bank accounts are the issue (which constitute criminal offences by the way so can be dealt with more seriously than they are now). The issue is more likely something more to do with other policy decisions being taken behind the scenes by Thai immigration as many, including myself, have posted or speculated about.

 

Equally, if you read the threads, it is clear (or unclear) that the actual requirements from Immigration are yet to be clarified. There is for example a world of difference between a requirement to prove you have funds of 65k a month in your home country and 65K a month actually in Thailand. Likewise, is that an average figure over 12 months or a requirement to have at least that transferred every month? Will funds into a foreign currency account be accepted? Will a letter from the bank be required? etc etc. If immigration want to change the goalposts, OK, but they need to give time for people to adjust (e.g. more than 3 months notice to arrange 800K transfer) and clarity regarding their actual requirements

[DPKANKAN]

14 hours ago, smedly said:

I think the proof of income will be money into your Thai bank account over 12 months so if you make 1 or 2 transfers a year they will add them up and divide by 12, so little has changed except it has become easier - no need for an embassy letter, just a letter and passbook from Thai bank showing the annual transfers from outside Thailand, I can't see it working any other way

Except it is only showing what you HAVE done not what you WILL get so the system is still potentially flawed!!

[8OA8]

Has anyone used the B800k seasoned funds that were transferred in via Transferwise? 

Previously I used funds transferred in from my bank in UK, however for some time now I've just used the embassy letter and have been happily using Transferwise for receiving my overseas funds as and when required, however I'm aware this could be considered a Hawala arrangement for which the funds aren't coming from outside Thailand. Basically I'm curious to know if Thai Immigration have a record of having accepted documentation of this source of seasoned funds 

[roath]

1 minute ago, Runamile said:

If our embassies couldn't or wouldn't properly check any more I question the ability or willingness of the Thai authorities to do so.  Will they informally introduce a rule of 65K a month so long as it comes into the Thai bank account in an easy to check one or two monthly payments, and preferably with the word "Pension" attached to the details? I find the income issue not, in theory, a great concern. In reality I find the will anybody be bothered to check in difficult detail issue a huge concern.

The requirements are for income (which includes a pension). I don't get a pension for another 15 years 

[imaderbyfan]

22 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Are you stupid to think this has just been put out on a whim without the UK speaking with Thailand? The requirements are there on the government website. I have no idea what other information you need? It's easy enough to understand. Money needs to come into a Thai bank account. That's it.

I believe that I am correct in saying that current Thai immigration regs, in relation to the retirement extension, give an option of a monthly income of at least 65,000 baht, which until now has been verified by the Embassy.....there is no mention of the money being in a Thai account......That has come from the embassy.

So either they are aware of a policy change to immigration regs, or they have made a,  currently, incorrect statement.

[roath]

2 minutes ago, 8OA8 said:

Has anyone used the B800k seasoned funds that were transferred in via Transferwise? 

Previously I used funds transferred in from my bank in UK, however for some time now I've just used the embassy letter and have been happily using Transferwise for receiving my overseas funds as and when required, however I'm aware this could be considered a Hawala arrangement for which the funds aren't coming from outside Thailand. Basically I'm curious to know if Thai Immigration have a record of having accepted documentation of this source of seasoned funds 

Are you aware that TransferWise is transferring funds from within Thailand and not externally? I don't know so I am asking if you have better information. I understood that their system just worked through the FX in the same way as any bank to bank transaction

[crazykopite]

18 hours ago, vogie said:

Everybody seems to be blaming the British Embassy, but in the other thread it stated that it is Thai Immigration that has instigated this, so won't this directive affect all?

It also said that the last income letter will be issued on the 12th of Dec, I was thinking would Thai Immigration honour that letter if the reporting was in, lets say March, probably no one will know the answer, but it is certainly food for thought.

I doubt it vet much as they would most probably say this letter is from 2018 it’s now 2019 .i can see a lot of people no longer being able to get the 1 year extension of stay for retirement after 13 years living in the Kingdom I am now seriously considering moving on to a country that is more welcoming and where they are happy to see me spending my money .

[roath]

3 minutes ago, imaderbyfan said:

I believe that I am correct in saying that current Thai immigration regs, in relation to the retirement extension, give an option of a monthly income of at least 65,000 baht, which until now has been verified by the Embassy.....there is no mention of the money being in a Thai account......That has come from the embassy.

So either they are aware of a policy change to immigration regs, or they have made a,  currently, incorrect statement.

Correct

The current requirement (as promulgated) is simply for income of 65K. No mention (to date) of a requirement for funds being transferred to Thailand (which isn't then proof of income, but something else entirely)

 

All the people calling everyone else stupid don't seem to appreciate that they are the ones showing themselves up as lacking some basic comprehension skills

 

 

[swifty5x5]

I just went to get my new visa and for a fee the agent put the money in my account went to immigration did our thing and took the money back out. No problem

[roath]

Just now, crazykopite said:

I doubt it vet much as they would most probably say this letter is from 2018 it’s now 2019 .i can see a lot of people no longer being able to get the 1 year extension of stay for retirement after 13 years living in the Kingdom I am now seriously considering moving on to a country that is more welcoming and where they are happy to see me spending my money .

Several countries are apparently issuing similar guidance, so this issue is not limited to the British Embassy being awkward or cost-cutting (which was the initial reaction)

[Esso49]

8 minutes ago, prakhonchai nick said:

When I went for PR some 30 years ago, a certified letter was needed that I had never been a bad boy in the UK with a Police record.  BE made no checks  "have you ever been in trouble with the police" I was asked. No OK. Letter certified and given to me.

Exactly my point to.  The Thai immigration requirement is that they need a certified letter from your embassy as proof of income.  As we know immigration have previously accepted letters from the BE even though no checks to validate the authenticity of what had been provided to them.  The same as they did for your police record.  Given the apparent large number of people who flout Thai laws using visa agents or provide faked documents to receive a letter from their Embassy etc perhaps the Thai authorities have now decided to address the issue.  About time too by my book.  As you have PR then I am sure you have become more than most aware of the scams and cheating that has been going on in the last 30 years

Given that then perhaps the Thai authorities have perhaps nabbed one or two dubious "retirees" here and asked for further information on their income and an IO has requested further documentary evidence ( which they are entitled to do ) and hence suspect, or otherwise found out that the BE and other Embassies have not been undertaking due process. 

We do not really know the answer to this but if it stops dubious visa agencies, some of whom are no doubt run by dubious people, stops possible thousands of others who  should have not been allowed to stay, then that is a good thing.  Nothing wrong in following the rule of law.  Yes we know we are in a country where sometimes things are not as it seems but two wrongs never make a right. IMHO.  And by the way it is not just a Farang thing either so people should not get too hung up on that matter.

[Rally123]

This new rule from the UK embassy isn't new. It was first published on 26 January 2014. So people have had almost 5 years to sort out their financial requirements. Always have a plan B.

 

 

Quote

Published 26 January 2014 
Last updated 8 October 2018

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notarial-and-documentary-services-guide-for-thailand

Edited October 9, 2018 by Rally123

[roath]

1 minute ago, swifty5x5 said:

I just went to get my new visa and for a fee the agent put the money in my account went to immigration did our thing and took the money back out. No problem

 

The money is meant to be in your account for 3 months according to the rules, so if there is a crackdown, that is likely to be on their radar unless the intention is to push more people towards that approach (i.e. paying agents, who in turn 'facilitate' the visa) although saying that, that would be against the grain of current campaign against corruption in immigration and the statements made by Prayuth last week

 

[Peterw42]

I love the "sky is falling" aspects of these threads, it very entertaining. Its like a competition to up the ante on the last stupid conspiracy theory.

So far its income "all letters are not longer accepted", a blanket policy being introduced to get ride of expats for good, the 800k must now come from outside thailand, 800k in the bank often goes missing and there is no recourse, property and asset seizures have already started, we are all going to have huge tax bill on our funds.

Seriously, NONE OF THIS HAS HAPPEND, OR WILL HAPPEN.

Its worse than an old ladies sewing circle.

[roiethome]

13 hours ago, baansgr said:

13 hours ago, Esso49 said:

And if it gets rid of those scammers that are bucking the system, using dodgy agents to fix their extensions or just telling downright lies to facilitate extensions then my view is damn good job too and clear off to PL ASAP. Some of us who have been here years legitimately are sick to the back teeth of being tarred with the same brush as the scammers/system buckers.

I think most people realise the extent of how many people use agents etc. By all means immigration can kill the goose but it will go a lot deeper than that. Lotus, Makro, bars, restaurants etc will be closing due to lack of customers. lots of expats will leave so be mindful of what you wish for.

I very much doubt that Makro and Lotus will be closing any outlets if more farangs leave Thailand. The farang spend is a small amount overall. Only the small bars with 100% farang clientele will be the losers.

About time the loopholes were tightened up and those that cant fully comply with the regulations should be forced to leave.

[soalbundy]

7 minutes ago, roath said:

Are you aware that TransferWise is transferring funds from within Thailand and not externally? I don't know so I am asking if you have better information. I understood that their system just worked through the FX in the same way as any bank to bank transaction

aye, there's the rub, with Transferwise you can't prove that the income has come from outside Thailand, or am I wrong ?

[Esso49]

1 minute ago, Peterw42 said:

I love the "sky is falling" aspects of these threads, it very entertaining. Its like a competition to up the ante on the last stupid conspiracy theory.

So far its income "all letters are not longer accepted", a blanket policy being introduced to get ride of expats for good, the 800k must now come from outside thailand, 800k in the bank often goes missing and there is no recourse, property and asset seizures have already started, we are all going to have huge tax bill on our funds.

Seriously, NONE OF THIS HAS HAPPEND, OR WILL HAPPEN.

Its worse than an old ladies sewing circle.

Please provide photographic evidence that you have attended at least one "old ladies sewing circle"  ????????

[Esso49]

1 minute ago, roiethome said:

I very much doubt that Makro and Lotus will be closing any outlets if more farangs leave Thailand. The farang spend is a small amount overall. Only the small bars with 100% farang clientele will be the losers.

About time the loopholes were tightened up and those that cant fully comply with the regulations should be forced to leave.

agreed

[mfd101]

1 hour ago, Gudge said:

When I go to the Canadian embassy in Bangkok for a letter confirming income I take my income tax forms from last year and have never had a problem as it is guaranteed proof of yearly income. In and out in a couple of hours

When I go to the Australian Embassy in Bangkok for a lovely stamp on my statutory declaration which they witness me signing, I take my superannuation statement for the current year which they barely glance at though this year they did keep a copy of it. In and out in 7 minutes 2 weeks ago.

[asiaexpat]

6 minutes ago, swifty5x5 said:

I just went to get my new visa and for a fee the agent put the money in my account went to immigration did our thing and took the money back out. No problem

If this is not a troll then the poster can expect a visit from Immigration and deportation once they read this. The practice mentioned is exactly what Big Joke is prosecuting.

[roath]

3 minutes ago, Esso49 said:

Exactly my point to.  The Thai immigration requirement is that they need a certified letter from your embassy as proof of income.  As we know immigration have previously accepted letters from the BE even though no checks to validate the authenticity of what had been provided to them.  The same as they did for your police record.  Given the apparent large number of people who flout Thai laws using visa agents or provide faked documents to receive a letter from their Embassy etc perhaps the Thai authorities have now decided to address the issue.  About time too by my book.  As you have PR then I am sure you have become more than most aware of the scams and cheating that has been going on in the last 30 years

Given that then perhaps the Thai authorities have perhaps nabbed one or two dubious "retirees" here and asked for further information on their income and an IO has requested further documentary evidence ( which they are entitled to do ) and hence suspect, or otherwise found out that the BE and other Embassies have not been undertaking due process. 

We do not really know the answer to this but if it stops dubious visa agencies, some of whom are no doubt run by dubious people, stops possible thousands of others who  should have not been allowed to stay, then that is a good thing.  Nothing wrong in following the rule of law.  Yes we know we are in a country where sometimes things are not as it seems but two wrongs never make a right. IMHO.  And by the way it is not just a Farang thing either so people should not get too hung up on that matter.

If they are looking to get rid of dodgy agents, then cracking down on income verification is going to push more people into agencies to sort out their visas, not fewer

someone just posted (unwisely in my view) that they went to immigration with a letter from their agents showing 800K issued that day which is clearly abusing the system 

 

if people are abusing the income verification system, it isn't difficult for immigration to require the appropriate documentation to verify the funds/source of funds and prosecute people who provide false information (it's fraud/perjury so a serious offence)

[Peterw42]

14 minutes ago, 8OA8 said:

Has anyone used the B800k seasoned funds that were transferred in via Transferwise? 

Previously I used funds transferred in from my bank in UK, however for some time now I've just used the embassy letter and have been happily using Transferwise for receiving my overseas funds as and when required, however I'm aware this could be considered a Hawala arrangement for which the funds aren't coming from outside Thailand. Basically I'm curious to know if Thai Immigration have a record of having accepted documentation of this source of seasoned funds 

There is no requirement for the 800k to come from outside Thailand. Maybe some offices ask for this but in general its 800k in an account, they dont care less where it came from. I know of 3 guys in phuket who share the same 800k, moving to each account as required

 

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, Esso49 said:

Please provide photographic evidence that you have attended at least one "old ladies sewing circle"  ????????

depends on the bar he goes to ????

[Pattaya46]

58 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

The money MUST then be in a Thai bank account either 800k lump sum or 65k a month income proved by a letter from your THAI BANK. The money MUST come into Thailand

Don't know where you saw that ??

It has never been a requirement from Immigration that the 800k for Retirement must come from abroad.

Many retired people have revenues from Thailand: apartments for rent, stock exchange, funds, ...

[roath]

6 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

aye, there's the rub, with Transferwise you can't prove that the income has come from outside Thailand, or am I wrong ?

TransferWise provide you with a FX receipt which together from your bank statements in UK and Thailand should (technically) be sufficient proof

[smedly]

7 minutes ago, Esso49 said:

Exactly my point to.  The Thai immigration requirement is that they need a certified letter from your embassy as proof of income.  As we know immigration have previously accepted letters from the BE even though no checks to validate the authenticity of what had been provided to them.  The same as they did for your police record.  Given the apparent large number of people who flout Thai laws using visa agents or provide faked documents to receive a letter from their Embassy etc perhaps the Thai authorities have now decided to address the issue.  About time too by my book.  As you have PR then I am sure you have become more than most aware of the scams and cheating that has been going on in the last 30 years

Given that then perhaps the Thai authorities have perhaps nabbed one or two dubious "retirees" here and asked for further information on their income and an IO has requested further documentary evidence ( which they are entitled to do ) and hence suspect, or otherwise found out that the BE and other Embassies have not been undertaking due process. 

We do not really know the answer to this but if it stops dubious visa agencies, some of whom are no doubt run by dubious people, stops possible thousands of others who  should have not been allowed to stay, then that is a good thing.  Nothing wrong in following the rule of law.  Yes we know we are in a country where sometimes things are not as it seems but two wrongs never make a right. IMHO.  And by the way it is not just a Farang thing either so people should not get too hung up on that matter.

Yes I agree but that is not the problem

 

It seems Thai Immigration has made changes but have not clarified how they propose to fill the gap regarding proof of income so that has left a lot of people not knowing what they need to now do to qualify for an income based 12 month extension of stay

 

and these changes are to take effect in 3 months time were embassy letter will no longer be accepted

 

Is it any wonder people are now totally confused

[roath]

Just now, Pattaya46 said:

Don't know where you saw that ??

It has never been a requirement from Immigration that the 800k for Retirement must come from abroad.

Many retired people have revenues from Thailand: apartments for rent, stock exchange, funds, …

Interesting as the presumption is that the funds for income will come from outside Thailand 

If the funds are coming from within Thailand, then they may be asking additional questions such as where the funds are from (i.e. to prove that not working) and if e.g. rental property whether you are declaring/paying tax on those funds. So perhaps that is part of their purpose...?

[NextStationBangkok]

18 hours ago, colinneil said:

British embassy are a total waste of space.

 

They can run a Golf course business, and invite Harry to kick-start the game.

[mfd101]

52 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Are you stupid to think this has just been put out on a whim without the UK speaking with Thailand? The requirements are there on the government website. I have no idea what other information you need? It's easy enough to understand. Money needs to come into a Thai bank account. That's it.

So why haven't other embassies put out the same 'information'?