BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

16 minutes ago, David Walden said:

Complete and utter rubbish.   I have retirement multi entry visa  "O" issued from the Thai Embassy in Canberra Australia.  it cost $275.  The same visa is available from most western countries Thai Embassy world wide. But you have to have the money in a bank in real cash.

http://canberra.thaiembassy.org/Home/visa  here are the details.

 

O and O-A visas issued by Thai consulates are different and separate from retirement and marriage extensions of stay issued by Thai Immigration.

 

They share a common element of each giving you permission to stay in Thailand. And can be obtained based on marriage and retirement status. But otherwise, different applications, different issuing entities, and somewhat different rules for visas vs. extensions of stay.

 

But Jing was correct -- extensions of stay are ONLY issued by Thai Immigration inside Thailand.

 

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, David Walden said:

Complete and utter rubbish.   I have retirement multi entry visa  "O" issued from the Thai Embassy in Canberra Australia.  it cost $275.  The same visa is available from most western countries Thai Embassy world wide. But you have to have the money in a bank in real cash.

http://canberra.thaiembassy.org/Home/visa  here are the details.

Rubbish. Schmubbish.

It's good to learn to use the correct terminology. That helps to have coherent conversations on visa related issues and it's also useful to know what's in your own passport. Again, extensions based on retirement (those are extensions of a visa previously obtained but can be done continuously and annually for life) are ONLY available IN Thailand. 

[Varrius]

I just sent this e-mail to the BBC in the hope of some sort of coverage.  I would prefer not to have too much sarcasm or abuse if people comment. Just trying to help.

 

"There are thousands of British ex Pats residing in Thailand on a permanent basis,  In order to acquire a Thai visa through Thai Immigration we have to obtain an official letter from our Embassy confirming our yearly income.
However the Embassy in their infinite wisdom have thrown all of us to the wolves by stating that they will No Longer Issue this document!
This has come out of the blue for us and is causing much confusion, not least because the embassy doesn`t appear to have informed or consulted the Thai Immigration authorities.
As yet this doesn't seem to have been picked up by your S E Asia correspondent Jonathon Head.  That is unless he is wary of being seen to be critical of either our embassy or the Thai Immigration.
As an aside, this letter was not free.  We were charged 52 pounds each year for an A4 sheet of paper (worthless) with an embassy stamp on it.
We would be grateful for any sort of report on this matter.
Yours Sincerely

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

It's good to learn to use the correct terminology. //

Extensions based on retirement (those are extensions of a visa previously obtained but can be done continuously and annually for life) //

Maybe you should use "the correct terminology" too ? 

These are not "Extensions of a Visa" but extensions of the "Authorisation of Stay" that your visa allowed you when you entered in Thailand. 

Edited October 14, 2018 by Pattaya46

[doctormann]

1 hour ago, Varrius said:

I just sent this e-mail to the BBC in the hope of some sort of coverage.  I would prefer not to have too much sarcasm or abuse if people comment. Just trying to help.

 

"There are thousands of British ex Pats residing in Thailand on a permanent basis,  In order to acquire a Thai visa through Thai Immigration we have to obtain an official letter from our Embassy confirming our yearly income.
However the Embassy in their infinite wisdom have thrown all of us to the wolves by stating that they will No Longer Issue this document!
This has come out of the blue for us and is causing much confusion, not least because the embassy doesn`t appear to have informed or consulted the Thai Immigration authorities.
As yet this doesn't seem to have been picked up by your S E Asia correspondent Jonathon Head.  That is unless he is wary of being seen to be critical of either our embassy or the Thai Immigration.
As an aside, this letter was not free.  We were charged 52 pounds each year for an A4 sheet of paper (worthless) with an embassy stamp on it.
We would be grateful for any sort of report on this matter.
Yours Sincerely

I sent something very similar to BBC News 'haveyoursay' a couple of days ago.  No response as yet, apart from an acknowledgement of receipt.

 

I also suggested that someone might tweet Jonathon Head.  I can't do this myself - no twitter account.

[JLCrab]

47 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Maybe you should use "the correct terminology" too ? 

These are not "Extensions of a Visa" but extensions of the "Authorisation of Stay" that your visa allowed you when you entered in Thailand. 

Please note heading TM7 form:

http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/download/form_tm7.pdf

[soalbundy]

38 minutes ago, doctormann said:

I sent something very similar to BBC News 'haveyoursay' a couple of days ago.  No response as yet, apart from an acknowledgement of receipt.

 

I also suggested that someone might tweet Jonathon Head.  I can't do this myself - no twitter account.

I have written to the BBC before all this, apart from a receipt nothing happened, they have to regard it as an interesting story for Mr Average on the street probably, if the future of a few thousand expats is as interesting as brexit or a royal wedding and who wore what remains to be seen but it's worth a try, better than doing nothing. The Johnathan Head route may offer more success or even the gutter press like the daily mirror, they can squeeze out the last tear, 'wives and children being deserted because of hard hearted embassy' etc.

[phutoie2]

27 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Please note heading TM7 form:

http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/download/form_tm7.pdf

555, good one. Maybe the Embassy have decided as many of us are only here temporarily why bother with this letter stuff. 

Most Brits I know have digested this announcement now, and unless Immigration change the rules its time to put plan B into effect. 'Baldrick- I have a cunning plan'.

[Peterw42]

21 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I have written to the BBC before all this, apart from a receipt nothing happened, they have to regard it as an interesting story for Mr Average on the street probably, if the future of a few thousand expats is as interesting as brexit or a royal wedding and who wore what remains to be seen but it's worth a try, better than doing nothing. The Johnathan Head route may offer more success or even the gutter press like the daily mirror, they can squeeze out the last tear, 'wives and children being deserted because of hard hearted embassy' etc.

Why not write to "The Sun", they love negative stories about Thailand. I can see the head lines already "BE leaves 3,000 Brits stranded in Thailand", British pensioners to be deported, foreign office does nothing"

[scottiejohn]

2 hours ago, Varrius said:

As an aside, this letter was not free.  We were charged 52 pounds each year for an A4 sheet of paper (worthless) with an embassy stamp on it.

If I received your letter at the BBC and read the "If the paper is worthless" bit I would think "why are you complaining about it's withdrawal" and throw your letter in the bin as worthless.

It was a worthless comment that ruined a potentially useful letter.

[scottiejohn]

3 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Why not write to "The Sun", they love negative stories about Thailand.

And of course the "Daily Mail" who are banned in Thailand due to their negative articles on Thailand.

[soalbundy]

5 minutes ago, phutoie2 said:

555, good one. Maybe the Embassy have decided as many of us are only here temporarily why bother with this letter stuff. 

Most Brits I know have digested this announcement now, and unless Immigration change the rules its time to put plan B into effect. 'Baldrick- I have a cunning plan'.

Baldrick, does this plan involve giving up the house you built in Thailand and deserting your Thai/British children to live in a grotty bedsit in the UK where you can be sued for not sending child support money to your wife which you can't afford to do because your pension has been reduced due to the fact that you no longer live with her?

[Varrius]

25 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

If I received your letter at the BBC and read the "If the paper is worthless" bit I would think "why are you complaining about it's withdrawal" and throw your letter in the bin as worthless.

It was a worthless comment that ruined a potentially useful letter.

I think you have misquoted me there,  But its a fair point. I certainly took the pains to Provide genuine evidence of my bank statements, Pension payments, and transfers to a thai bank.  I am disappointed now that the embassy letter was just pushed out regardless of whatever "Proof" anyone submitted.

However I am not an investigative journalist, but feel that we need to make our feelings known especially until we know the Immigration's take on this.

I will be submitting my letter to Kanchanaburi Immigration on Tuesday.  Watch this space.

[phutoie2]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

Baldrick, does this plan involve giving up the house you built in Thailand and deserting your Thai/British children to live in a grotty bedsit in the UK where you can be sued for not sending child support money to your wife which you can't afford to do because your pension has been reduced due to the fact that you no longer live with her?

sounds like you need to grow a backbone, no one is deserting anyone. If you find yourself in that situation you only have yourself to blame. A lot of plan B's will mean switching from retirement to marriage extensions, 400k Baht is a much better option. Some of us will do the 60 day extension based on married to a Thai and this will give more time to raise the deposit for next extension.

Spare us the b*llix about house, wife, kids, you think your the only one?

[Joe Mcseismic]

Why would anyone in Britain care about problems British pensioners have in Thailand?

I'm sure there have been problems for pensioners retired in other countries, but, I've never read, seen, or heard about them.

Worth a try I s'pose, but, it's a real long-shot.

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, phutoie2 said:

sounds like you need to grow a backbone, no one is deserting anyone. If you find yourself in that situation you only have yourself to blame. A lot of plan B's will mean switching from retirement to marriage extensions, 400k Baht is a much better option. Some of us will do the 60 day extension based on married to a Thai and this will give more time to raise the deposit for next extension.

Spare us the b*llix about house, wife, kids, you think your the only one?

It doesn't affect me, I get a sufficient German pension and I can still get my letter from the German embassy. I can however imagine that some Brits may have no alternative but to leave, especially if they are living on the threshold of legality due to the falling FX rate pound/baht which would be a problem for wife and kids. There is no need to be abusive. 

[davehowden]

17 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Why would anyone in Britain care about problems British pensioners have in Thailand?

I'm sure there have been problems for pensioners retired in other countries, but, I've never read, seen, or heard about them.

Worth a try I s'pose, but, it's a real long-shot.

If a piece in the SUN could be linked to loss of "Thai Income" in some way I am sure it would get some attention from the Thai authorities. Something like "Put your retirement plans for Thailand on hold, better check out the Philippines instead, where the time deposit is USD 10,000 and not the USD 24,468 required for Thailand. It does not need to be too factually correct, just interest grabbing!

 

http://www.philembassy.no/consular-services/visa/special-resident-retirees-visa-srrv

Edited October 14, 2018 by davehowden
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[David Walden]

9 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

O and O-A visas issued by Thai consulates are different and separate from retirement and marriage extensions of stay issued by Thai Immigration.

 

They share a common element of each giving you permission to stay in Thailand. And can be obtained based on marriage and retirement status. But otherwise, different applications, different issuing entities, and somewhat different rules for visas vs. extensions of stay.

 

But Jing was correct -- extensions of stay are ONLY issued by Thai Immigration inside Thailand.

 

I have put post up before about this subject...Again, I have a Retirement Visa issued from The Thai Embassy in Canberra Australia.  That is simply a fact as do thousands of other farangs living in Thailand   The Embassy call it a Retirement Visa that but it is really a "Non-Immigrant  O-A M" visa and it is only available from a Thai Embassy in a foreign country.  It is not available from Thai Consuls only from an Embassy.http://canberra.thaiembassy.org/Home/visa. 

    Before making any further comment please read the details in the attached link.  In my previous post(s) I did go into detail that the extensions of stay are only provided by Thai Immigration when you arrive in the country during the 1st year.  My comments are no longer there in my recent post.  You can stay in Thailand one day short of 2 years by leaving and returning as often as you like during the 1st year only, no charge.  I have 4 one year extension in my Passport.  The extensions are for 1 year which means on a 1 year Thai Retirement Visa you can arrive in the country just a few days short of when the 2nd year begins and you will receive an extension for another 364 days.  You will have to exit and return at least 1 day before your 1st year visa period expires to get the 2nd year extension which is free.  That is what I have presently done.  My visa is good for almost 2 years.  there no further extension after the one year visa expires but the day before yes.  Remember your visa will have lapsed on the day it says it's current till.  It is only good till midnight on the day previous to expiry date...TIT...A trap for young and old players.

  My comments appear to have gone astray on the subject of "extension of stay".  These extension of stay are the same for Retirement Visas issued in Thailand or a foreign Embassy. 

   I repeat Retirement Visas are only obtained from Embassy not a Consul.  It tells you this on the application forms.  A consul might give you advice or remind you that your application should have 36 pages when you only have 25 and all pages must be signed by a JP.  He will not accept your application but might put it in his jiffy bag to the Embassy.  Once you application reaches the Embassy it will be given a tracking number.  You can ring anytime to see what progress you application is making.  The staff at the Thai Embassy in Canberra is alway very polite and helpful.

Edited October 14, 2018 by David Walden

[doctormann]

13 minutes ago, phutoie2 said:

sounds like you need to grow a backbone, no one is deserting anyone. If you find yourself in that situation you only have yourself to blame. A lot of plan B's will mean switching from retirement to marriage extensions, 400k Baht is a much better option. Some of us will do the 60 day extension based on married to a Thai and this will give more time to raise the deposit for next extension.

Spare us the b*llix about house, wife, kids, you think your the only one?

I think that you are rather missing the point.

 

Yes, many of us may well have a 'Plan B' but that is not the issue.  Why should anyone be forced into having to use the seasoned bank deposit method to obtain an extension to their 'permission to stay' when the Immigration Act does not require this?  The Act provides for the bank deposit method, the income method and the combination method.  Unless The Act is amended by a new Police Order, or whatever, these three methods will still be available.

 

The point at issue is that the British Embassy has, seemingly, unilaterally decided that the income method, that requires a certifying letter from themselves, will no longer be available to ex-pats.  What we need to see is a statement from Thai Immigration as to what they would consider a suitable alternative to the Embassy letter.

 

It makes little sense that someone who can easily meet the income requirement should be denied this method of obtaining an extension just because there is no mechanism in place for them to obtain the proof.  There has been much discussion, on this forum, of how an alternative method may or may not work but we are still no nearer to getting a statement from either the BE or from Immigration as to what, if anything, may be put in place.

[jayboy]

4 hours ago, Varrius said:

I just sent this e-mail to the BBC in the hope of some sort of coverage.  I would prefer not to have too much sarcasm or abuse if people comment. Just trying to help.

 

"There are thousands of British ex Pats residing in Thailand on a permanent basis,  In order to acquire a Thai visa through Thai Immigration we have to obtain an official letter from our Embassy confirming our yearly income.
However the Embassy in their infinite wisdom have thrown all of us to the wolves by stating that they will No Longer Issue this document!
This has come out of the blue for us and is causing much confusion, not least because the embassy doesn`t appear to have informed or consulted the Thai Immigration authorities.
As yet this doesn't seem to have been picked up by your S E Asia correspondent Jonathon Head.  That is unless he is wary of being seen to be critical of either our embassy or the Thai Immigration.
As an aside, this letter was not free.  We were charged 52 pounds each year for an A4 sheet of paper (worthless) with an embassy stamp on it.
We would be grateful for any sort of report on this matter.
Yours Sincerely

To be honest this would have been a better letter if you had dropped the sarcasm you exhort others to avoid, "in their infinite wisdom" etc

 

The smears against Jonathan Head are also out of place. Have you considered contacting him directly?

 

Overall the letter not only a bit of a muddle but is too overheated and misses making the crucial point that the Immigration Authorities insist on such an Embassy letter being produced certifying income, and that contrary to Embassy advice there are no practical alternatives.

 

 

[Moonlover]

4 hours ago, Varrius said:

I just sent this e-mail to the BBC in the hope of some sort of coverage.  I would prefer not to have too much sarcasm or abuse if people comment. Just trying to help.

 

"There are thousands of British ex Pats residing in Thailand on a permanent basis,  In order to acquire a Thai visa through Thai Immigration we have to obtain an official letter from our Embassy confirming our yearly income.
However the Embassy in their infinite wisdom have thrown all of us to the wolves by stating that they will No Longer Issue this document!
This has come out of the blue for us and is causing much confusion, not least because the embassy doesn`t appear to have informed or consulted the Thai Immigration authorities.
As yet this doesn't seem to have been picked up by your S E Asia correspondent Jonathon Head.  That is unless he is wary of being seen to be critical of either our embassy or the Thai Immigration.
As an aside, this letter was not free.  We were charged 52 pounds each year for an A4 sheet of paper (worthless) with an embassy stamp on it.
We would be grateful for any sort of report on this matter.
Yours Sincerely

I would think it is very probable that Johnathon Head is already well aware is this situation and has already deemed it as 'not newsworthy'.

 

Should his overlords in the UK ask for his comments in light of this email, which I very much doubt, he will tell them exactly that.

[OJAS]

2 hours ago, phutoie2 said:

Most Brits I know have digested this announcement now, and unless Immigration change the rules its time to put plan B into effect.

I agree, although this does beg the question as to how Immigration are going to change the rules, bearing in mind that neither paras 2.18 (marriage) nor 2.22 (retirement) of the current relevant orders (327-2557 and 138-2557) include an explicit requirement for Embassy verification of minimum 40k/65k monthly income:-

 

http://www.pcecnews.com/permNL/Immigration Bureau order 327-2557 (2014) - extension criteria & conditions en.pdf

 

https://www.immigration.go.th/download/1487131155427.pdf

 

So, since there appear to be no official rules to be changed, I suspect that the most that we can expect from Immigration is some directive to clarify that bank statements proving minimum monthly deposits into Thai bank accounts will be deemed acceptable in place of Embassy verifications - akin to the one which they issued 5 years ago to clarify the maximum acceptable validity period for such verifications as being 6 months:-

 

http://www.pcecnews.com/PCEC-NOTICE-THAI-IMMIGRATION-NEWS-JUNE-6.pdf

 

IMHO the British Embassy are to be roundly condemned for jumping the gun by announcing a withdrawal of their income verification service in advance of the issue of any such Immigration directive. Presumably the American and other embassies are holding their fire on the future of their verification services until and unless any such further directive is issued?

 

But even after any such directive has been issued, there is, of course, no guarantee that individual offices will buy into its provisions right away. For example, member @wayned initially reported on here that his immigration office was still insisting on Embassy income verifications being no older than 1 month in spite of the 2013 directive - although he did subsequently confirm that they had now fallen into line with its provisions.

Edited October 14, 2018 by OJAS

[dayo202]

20 hours ago, doctormann said:

Because the bank book would also detail the transfer of the 65k OUT of Thailand.  

You are right, Immigration officers are not 'so' stupid as to be fooled by this!

not if you use paypal

[David Walden]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Rubbish. Schmubbish.

It's good to learn to use the correct terminology. That helps to have coherent conversations on visa related issues and it's also useful to know what's in your own passport. Again, extensions based on retirement (those are extensions of a visa previously obtained but can be done continuously and annually for life) are ONLY available IN Thailand. 

http://canberra.thaiembassy.org/Home/visa

Select almost any country you like from this link and in all the same instruction will come up (with few exceptions).  Getting a retirement visa in you home country is a bit complicated but when done it's a nice feeling to arrive in Thailand knowing you can live there one day short of 2 years with a one day side trip to KL or other place just before your one years visa expires to get your 364 day extension of stay.  Yes you must be able to prove you have the Bt800,000 that is real money in a bank. or a pension fund or the Bt65,000p/m.

This information about getting your Retirement Visa overseas has appeared at least a 100 time by various contributors on this site.  But some people just cannot see the trees through the woods. (is that softer enough?)

 

Edited October 14, 2018 by David Walden

[jayboy]

I would think it is very probable that Johnathon Head is already well aware is this situation and has already deemed it as 'not newsworthy'.
 
Should his overlords in the UK ask for his comments in light of this email, which I very much doubt, he will tell them exactly that.

I’m not sure about that.I think there is a newsworthy story here but not the narrow issue of Embassy letters - more the wider issue of the large number of retired British expatriates in Thailand (mostly not very well off) now struggling with a weaker Pound and frozen pensions.Furthermore they have now been cut off from NHS treatment with the attendant worries about expensive medical insurance.




Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Peterw42]

37 minutes ago, David Walden said:

repeat Retirement Visas are only obtained from Embassy not a Consul.  It tells you this on the application forms.  A consul might give you advice or remind you that your application should have 36 pages when you only have 25 and all pages must be signed by a JP.  He will not accept your application but might put it in his jiffy bag to the Embassy.  Once you application reaches the Embassy it will be given a tracking number.  You can ring anytime to see what progress you application is making.  The staff at the Thai Embassy in Canberra is alway very polite and helpful.

I have an OA visa issued by the Thai consulate in Sydney, It even says "issued at : Sydney" printed on the visa, Maybe the internal processing goes to Canberra but I can walk into a Thai consulate and walk out with an OA visa. (I even met the guy at who did my OA at sydney consulate as he had a question about how much the notary public cost). Not sure what the relevance of "only from an embassy" and why you repeat that statement.

 

Here is the application forms from Sydney consulate and it doesnt mention anything about only at embassy.

 

https://thaiconsulatesydney.org/docs/forms/visitor-visa/visa-application-form.pdf

https://thaiconsulatesydney.org/docs/forms/retirement-visa/retirement-visa-application-o-a.pdf

Edited October 14, 2018 by Peterw42

[David Walden]

18 minutes ago, dayo202 said:

not if you use paypal

When I ask for a statement from my bank managed pension fund it shows clearly how much I receive each month, how I have been paid during the last 12 months and how much the surrender value of the fund is at present.  I assume just about any legit pension fund all over the world provides this information when requested by the client.  When applying for my retirement Visa in Australia this statement forms part of my application.  If you can't provide simple accurate information to Thai Immigration when applying for a retirement visa about income well perhaps that is where you are "up the creek without a paddle"  elementary I think.

[wayned]

35 minutes ago, OJAS said:

So, since there appear to be no official rules to be changed, I suspect that the most that we can expect from Immigration is some directive to clarify that bank statements proving minimum monthly deposits into Thai bank accounts will be deemed acceptable in place of Embassy verifications -

The current directive regarding monthly payments does not require that they be deposited in a Thai Bak account, only that you are receiving this amount.    Unless the regulation is changed they cannot require that the payments be deposited in a Thai Bank account.

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

I have an OA visa issued by the Thai consulate in Sydney,

That is because Sydney is a official Thai consulate. The others are honorary consulates.

Official Thai consulates are listed here along with embassies. http://www.thaiembassy.org/main/

[doctormann]

2 minutes ago, David Walden said:

When I ask for a statement from my bank managed pension fund it shows clearly how much I receive each month, how I have been paid during the last 12 months and how much the surrender value of the fund is at present.  I assume just about any legit pension fund all over the world provides this information when requested by the client.  When applying for my retirement Visa in Australia this statement forms part of my application.  If you can't provide simple accurate information to Thai Immigration when applying for a retirement visa about income well perhaps that is where you are "up the creek without a paddle"  elementary I think.

Obtaining proof is not the problem as I guess that most of us could do that.

The Issue is that, in the case of UK ex-pats, the BE will no longer be involved in providing that proof and, as it stands at the moment, there is  nothing apart from the Embassy letter that is acceptable to Immigration.