BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[Joe Mcseismic]

4 hours ago, Esso49 said:

Thaidream, That seems the way to go to satisfy the requirements and well stated. As a Brit I find it amassing that the BE managed for years to "buck the system" by allowing people to email documents for them to then issue this certificate of income. As I said in another post I would be quite happy to provide them with original documents to substantiate my income submission but they simply did not want them.

 

Clearly this, has many have already said,  opened the system up to abuse. Also as many others likewise stated,  if you have original documents to enable you to honestly obtain a certificate of income, then no worries.

 

Who knows how many have have bucked the system up to now ? How many have used VISA agents to do likewise ?  It is probably these folk who should be the most worried.  However unless there really is change coming to Immigration,  led by "Big Joke" to stop the corruption within the Thai system, then I guess these VISA agents will unfortunately continue to flourish by providing a ways and means for people to buck the system.

 

Perhaps if the application costs for extensions were altered so that the application for retirement extensions were say 50,000 baht then that in itself may be a deterrent for those attempting to cheat, whilst allowing the extension due to marriage to remain as is.  This which would not impact those married with children, whom together with their families actually contribute to the future good of Thailand rather than the profits of beer bars in many cases perhaps often frequented by single retirees judging by many posts on TV.

Your last paragraph.

Let me guess.......you're on a extension for marriage. You're one of those people "married with children, whom together with their families actually contribute to the future good of Thailand".

And of course those on an extension for retirement only contribute to "the profits of beer bars in many cases perhaps often frequented by single retirees".

 

Wow! This is so wrong on so many levels.

Firstly, how one spends ones cash during their retirement is no ones business but the retirees. If they want to spend their last days on booze and women, good on them.

 

Secondly, your vain attempt at trying to grab the moral high ground is pathetic. You try and justify those on an extension of marriage are somehow "better" than those on an extension for retirement and therefore, retirement people should be penalized with a 50,000 Bt charge, whilst those of upright moral standing.....such as yourself get it for free.

 

Thirdly, throwing your fellow expats that get an extension for a different reason than you, under the bus so that you have a better chance of getting your own extension is despicable. Further words fail me.

[wayned]

18 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

whose vice consul, not the British ?

I assume that the Vice consul was American since she was standing behind the bullet proof glass in the ACS processing area.  Of course, the British  "Twit" could have taken the wrong turn when going to work and somehow ended up there also, but I doubt it.

[Thaidream]

10 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Yes, the concept of 'commonwealth' would have to be explained to IO, the  British queen is boss so there is the British link and they love royalty

The BE statement is that they do not provide the service of a statutory declaration.  Look at the BE Website in Washington DC.  One of the services they do provide is that of a Statutory Dec.  So- apparently it is still a service that a BE CAN provide if so inclined.  There may be other BE Embassies that also provide it. 

 

 

[wayned]

18 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Yes, the concept of 'commonwealth' would have to be explained to IO, the  British queen is boss so there is the British link and they love royalty

Forget it, if it wasn't issued in Thailand they would never accept it!

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The BE statement is that they do not provide the service of a statutory declaration.  Look at the BE Website in Washington DC.  One of the services they do provide is that of a Statutory Dec.  So- apparently it is still a service that a BE CAN provide if so inclined.  There may be other BE Embassies that also provide it. 

 

 

good thinking batman, Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar, all close possibilities, have to search and then ask IO if this is acceptable.

[Esso49]

4 hours ago, Thaidream said:

I. like you. and the majority of people actually can prove their income stream by various methods.  Whether the Embassy wants them or not is up to them. I have always carried back up proof when visiting Thai Imm.

 

To me, the missing piece is when the BE decided to NOT make their citizens swear an Oath that under penalty of perjury etc etc that the info submitted is true.  If an Embassy does this (make them swear an Oath) - and the Thai Imm has an issue at least they can say that the applicant has sworn an Oath- that they have told the truth and that you-the Thai Imm- always have the right to ask for proof. If you then find someone has lied- you can notify the Embassy and also refer the case to a Thai prosecutor as it is against the law to a Thai official.  

 

As an outsider looking at this- rather than say to Thai Imm- we are not doing this anymore-  I would have changed the letter a bit- make it a statutory declaration and have the citizen take the Oath and let the  system continue.  What we have now is a huge mess.

  There are also other options that would work-including outsourcing the letter to a trusted legal  office that employees British lawyers and there are many in Bangkok. I am sure there are  British citizens out there who could work with the Embassy and come up with a suitable solution to preserve what has worked for decades or make some acceptable changes to the letter (make it a stat dec!) that would be acceptable to all.

 

I agree with you but unfortunately the UK cares more about its immigrant population rather than the indigenous species !!

[wayned]

19 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Perhaps if the application costs for extensions were altered so that the application for retirement extensions were say 50,000 baht then that in itself may be a deterrent for those attempting to cheat, whilst allowing the extension due to marriage to remain as is.  This which would not impact those married with children, whom together with their families actually contribute to the future good of Thailand rather than the profits of beer bars in many cases perhaps often frequented by single retirees judging by many posts on TV.

What a total crock of <deleted>  I was married to a Thai for 15.5 years until she died unexpectedly at the age of 50 3.5 years ago.  I have been using the retirement extension since 2009 mainly because, income wise, I qualify and it is a much easier process that requires only one visit... If you think that I didn't and don't contribute to the future good of Thailand you're welcome to come and talk to the members of the Farmers' Coop that I started and take pictures of the 3 John Deere Combines that I imported from the US.  I would like to go to a beer bar once in a while, but where I liver there aren't any and any drinking is usually done in the Gazebo in front of my house with no dancing girls.  <deleted>

[Joe Mcseismic]

10 minutes ago, wayned said:

What a total crock of <deleted>  I was married to a Thai for 15.5 years until she died unexpectedly at the age of 50 3.5 years ago.  I have been using the retirement extension since 2009 mainly because, income wise, I qualify and it is a much easier process that requires only one visit... If you think that I didn't and don't contribute to the future good of Thailand you're welcome to come and talk to the members of the Farmers' Coop that I started and take pictures of the 3 John Deere Combines that I imported from the US.  I would like to go to a beer bar once in a while, but where I liver there aren't any and any drinking is usually done in the Gazebo in front of my house with no dancing girls.  <deleted>

You've quoted the wrong person. Esso49 said that.

[wayned]

8 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

You've quoted the wrong person. Esso49 said that.

Sorry, I copied it from the quote that you referenced from Esso 49 and when it came up it said that you said it and I didn't catch it.  TV software gurus still have a little to work on. But my answer stands!

[Joe Mcseismic]

2 minutes ago, wayned said:

Sorry, I copied it from the quote that you referenced from Esso 49 and when it came up it said that you said it and I didn't catch it.  TV software gurus still have a little to work on. But my answer stands!

He obviously didn't read your signature......

[Moonlover]

On ‎10‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 10:43 PM, Shoeless Joe said:

Thai immigration will never accept foreign documents as main proof of revenues (but they may ask to see them)

Surely, The British Embassy's letters are 'foreign documents'. They are produced in English, on British sovereign territory (yes, that's what an embassy is) and sign off by a British national.

 

 

[Thaidream]

27 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

ood thinking batman, Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar, all close possibilities, have to search and then ask IO if this is acceptable.

Check out the BE Website in Hanoi Vietnam- they do Stat Decs as well as other Affirmations and have templates.  They ask for proof of citizenship and address. It seems a possible solution if Thai imm would accept this.

[JimGant]

Quote

We are unable to provide a Statutory Declaration  to fulfil these requirements as this is not a service which we provide.

Huh? You're not a signatory to the Vienna convention regarding consular affairs, which allows a consular officer to witness that the presenter of an affidavit (stat dec) has affirmed the contents of such?

Quote

A statutory declaration is a written statement which a person swears, affirms or declares to be true in the presence of an authorised witness

So, the consular section of the British Embassy in Thailand has no authorized witnesses amongst its merry men? What a bloody joke.

 

At least as I currently re-read that wonderful "Hornblower" series, I have a sense of how great Great Britain used to be. Sigh.

 

 

[soalbundy]

Just now, Thaidream said:

Check out the BE Website in Hanoi Vietnam- they do Stat Decs as well as other Affirmations and have templates.  They ask for proof of citizenship and address. It seems a possible solution if Thai imm would accept this.

Aaaaaaah, the 'if' again, they might not even notice it's from Vietnam and 'if' it is a British stat dec and since they will know about the bloody mindedness of BE Bangkok it is possible that it would be accepted, only way is to ask IO first.

[soalbundy]

6 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Huh? You're not a signatory to the Vienna convention regarding consular affairs, which allows a consular officer to witness that the presenter of an affidavit (stat dec) has affirmed the contents of such?

So, the consular section of the British Embassy in Thailand has no authorized witnesses amongst its merry men? What a bloody joke.

 

At least as I currently re-read that wonderful "Hornblower" series, I have a sense of how great Great Britain used to be. Sigh.

 

 

Indeed,   'There is not one wave, but marks the grave of one of our English dead.'

and what do you get for it? as one wise old British colleague said to me when I was a young apprentice :-

When the country flourishes you have to work all the overtime God sends and get taxed to the hilt.

In bad times you are unemployed existing on a pittance

In war you are sent over the top to protect those making the weapons to maim and kill you.

[Exploring Thailand]

This is a link to a page from the BE website in March 2017. At that time, they offered these services.

 

 

They stopped offering those services at the end of 2017 as part of a cost-cutting exercise. They cut any services which could be offered elsewhere.  If you ask them for those services, they redirect you to this list of lawyers in Thailand.  So it looks like their position is that the lawyers on that list can provide all of the above services.

 

There are so many questions regarding this issue, it's hard to believe that they will not make another statement or give another interview before they stop issuing the letters.

 

[JimGant]

Quote

They stopped offering those services at the end of 2017 as part of a cost-cutting exercise

And now they've sold the embassy building -- and probably the ambassador's quarters that went along with it. Ok, not-so-great Britain, why not just recall the ambassador -- that would further save some money, particularly since he doens't seem to be gainfully employed for the benefit of your citizens. And, for the rental of his new quarters -- is that a short time hotel? -- a few more quid saved.

 

I'm really sorry, my British friends. You guys are fantastic. But your Foreign Service sure sucks. Good luck.

[soalbundy]

17 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

This is a link to a page from the BE website in March 2017. At that time, they offered these services.

 

 

They stopped offering those services at the end of 2017 as part of a cost-cutting exercise. They cut any services which could be offered elsewhere.  If you ask them for those services, they redirect you to this list of lawyers in Thailand.  So it looks like their position is that the lawyers on that list can provide all of the above services.

 

There are so many questions regarding this issue, it's hard to believe that they will not make another statement or give another interview before they stop issuing the letters.

 

not hard to believe at all

[Exploring Thailand]

6 minutes ago, JimGant said:

And now they've sold the embassy building -- and probably the ambassador's quarters that went along with it. Ok, not-so-great Britain, why not just recall the ambassador -- that would further save some money, particularly since he doens't seem to be gainfully employed for the benefit of your citizens. And, for the rental of his new quarters -- is that a short time hotel? -- a few more quid saved.

 

I'm really sorry, my British friends. You guys are fantastic. But your Foreign Service sure sucks. Good luck.

 

Yep. And the embassy went for £420 million. I wonder how much they've saved by cutting the notarial services. 

 

3 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

not hard to believe at all

Actually, you're right.

 

[Thaidream]

54 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Indeed,   'There is not one wave, but marks the grave of one of our English dead.'

and what do you get for it? as one wise old British colleague said to me when I was a young apprentice :-

When the country flourishes you have to work all the overtime God sends and get taxed to the hilt.

In bad times you are unemployed existing on a pittance

In war you are sent over the top to protect those making the weapons to maim and kill you.

"It's not ours to question why,  but to do or die"     Lord Tennyson

 

The response from a native New Yorker:   "Forget About It! "

[soalbundy]

Just now, Thaidream said:

"It's not ours to question why,  but to do or die"     Lord Tennyson

 

The response from a native New Yorker:   "Forget About It! "

you do the dying, I'll be the coward still alive behind the wall, I'm on my side.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, Expattaff1308 said:

A reply to my mail to the Embassy....

 
We are unable to provide a Statutory Declaration  to fulfil these requirements as this is not a service which we provide.

 

 

So add the statutory declaration to your repertoire!!!  Twit!

 

Quote

There is an alternative for customers to demonstrate that they meet the financial requirement for their retirement or marriage visa by holding a Thai bank account showing the minimum funds needed.   

 

Sarah Peth  Deputy Consul & Head of Operations

 

Interesting that, after their original unsubstantiated claims, at least in this communication, they're no longer going on about presenting other proof of monthly income to Thai Immigration....

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

It appears they are finally admitting that in future Brit. citizens will only have the 800k bht in Thai bank route ☹️.

 

I received a similar, although less detailed, response a few days ago.

 

"Thank you for your email.

 

Following a meeting with Thai Immigration where they confirmed they believed we were verifying the income of British Nationals living in Thailand, and expected us to do so, a decision was made to cease providing income/pension letters as we are unable to fulfil Immigration’s requirement, as we cannot verify income of British Nationals."

 

Ya, but they seem to have left out the MAY timeframe (5 months ago) part!!!!!

Edited October 18, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

Check out the BE Website in Hanoi Vietnam- they do Stat Decs as well as other Affirmations and have templates.  They ask for proof of citizenship and address. It seems a possible solution if Thai imm would accept this.

 

I think the "outside Thailand" approach is likely grasping at straws.... But who knows....

[spambot]

I got my income letter yesterday from BE. I used bank account, P60 and pension statement originals scanned in electronically from UK so I could sent to BE online.

 

I am going to immigration tomorrow for O visa conversion from VE - are print out's acceptable or do they need to see the originals that need to be sent from UK?

 

[Esso49]

2 minutes ago, spambot said:

I got my income letter yesterday from BE. I used bank account, P60 and pension statement originals scanned in electronically from UK so I could sent to BE online.

 

I am going to immigration tomorrow for O visa conversion from VE - are print out's acceptable or do they need to see the originals that need to be sent from UK?

 

And as this thread is about the BE stopping certification of income,  what are you plans for next year when you will not be able to get it from the BE ?

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, spambot said:

I am going to immigration tomorrow for O visa conversion from VE - are print out's acceptable or do they need to see the originals that need to be sent from UK?

 

Most immigration offices will not ask to see any backup proof for the income letter. If asked for they would accept the printouts.

[Kadilo]

5 hours ago, Expattaff1308 said:

A reply to my mail to the Embassy....

 

I am sorry to learn that you are unhappy with the announcement that we intend to withdraw from providing a Pension letter in Thailand from 1 January 2019.  I appreciate the difficulties that can accompany such a change in services.

 

Our British Embassy in Bangkok currently issues a pension letter as a supporting document for British nationals applying for a Thai retirement or marriage visa application.  The Thai authorities have confirmed that they want the British Embassy to verify the income of British nationals which they are unable to do.  They/We would refer such requests to the issuing authority.   Therefore, the current letter does not fulfil the Thai authorities requirements so we need to stop issuing it so it is not misinterpreted as verification.

 

We are unable to provide a Statutory Declaration  to fulfil these requirements as this is not a service which we provide. The services which are provided by the British Embassy can be found here; https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notarial-and-documentary-services-guide-for-thailand#services-we-provide-in-thailand

 

When withdrawing a service we do look at what other options are available to the customer to assist them in meeting the requirements of the receiving authority.  There is an alternative for customers to demonstrate that they meet the financial requirement for their retirement or marriage visa by holding a Thai bank account showing the minimum funds needed.   

 

To assist customers, our Embassy in Bangkok has published details on their website of the change in service and what option is available to customers and what those requirements are.  Further details can be found at:  

at https://www.gov.uk/government/news/british-embassy-bangkok-to-stop-certification-of-income-letters

 

Regards

 

Sarah Peth  Deputy Consul & Head of Operations

Another statement, another shift. Seems now they are conceding by saying “an alternative” that the monthly income method cannot be used, imported or otherwise. 

Be noce if they actually say that on their response rather than pussyfooting about and leaving  it still  slightly in the air. 

 

[DRG]

Under English law, Solicitors are also Commissioners for Oaths. I wonder if the same is true of Thai Lawyers in Thailand. I recently used a local lawyer to do my Proof of Life certificate for my UK state pension. I presented my passport and my completed proof of life form. She added her identification as a lawyer, countersigned my signature and added her Company Seal. It seemed like a Stat Dec to me. She speaks and writes excellent English.

If no one has tried before, perhaps we should ask a few lawyers to approach Immigration and see if they could take over from the BE. I imagine that the extra customers and income would be welcome.

[xylophone]

3 minutes ago, DRG said:

Under English law, Solicitors are also Commissioners for Oaths. I wonder if the same is true of Thai Lawyers in Thailand. I recently used a local lawyer to do my Proof of Life certificate for my UK state pension. I presented my passport and my completed proof of life form. She added her identification as a lawyer, countersigned my signature and added her Company Seal. It seemed like a Stat Dec to me. She speaks and writes excellent English.

If no one has tried before, perhaps we should ask a few lawyers to approach Immigration and see if they could take over from the BE. I imagine that the extra customers and income would be welcome. 

I did put forward the suggestion that a Thai Notary Public could issue/sign a letter confirming income etc, but it was lost in the maelstrom of replies aimed at the BE.

 

IMO it is an option, but then again...………...