BREAKING NEWS British Embassy statement on income letters: Officials knew about problems in May and say that US nationals will also be affected

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, kannot said:

https://www.thai-elite.com/  20 years

 1  million  would  keep most of the ole dodderers  here until they expire I do the 400k in a  bank  account married to Thai maybe more weddings in order and then a  clampdown on those next.

I dont like anyone snooping  into where my  money comes from and if they start that too  much Ill switch to the THai Visa  Elite 20 year as at 1000000 its a   damn good  deal.

Folks  living here and who cant find a  million really should do some more  planning, its  just not that much anymore, bet the original Elites are having a laugh anyway.

Program gets  cancelled you get a partial refund.

Lesser  years available  5yrs 500k, no so much a bargain but if  you have a Wife or  just want to stay it aint so bad.

It might be a damn good deal if you are in your 50's. However, it still works out at 50,000 baht a year, which is a lot more than the 11,500 a year I pay an agent to do everything.

[Thaijack2014]

Strange. You have an income and get monthly statements for this income, at least its in Germany and the Netherlands like that. Everybody who can read is able to tell what your net income is. Why are those embassies not any longer capable of doing this?

[Genericnic]

President Trump looks after his folk not like our Prime Minister she even freezes our pensions because we choose to live in Thailand .

If you mean by "his folks" the rich, the swamp scum from swamp he lied about draining, the sex abusers, and the folks that work on his behalf to undermine the US, then yes, he does look after "his folk."

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[SheungWan]

6 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

Why ?  Maybe it is time to move on,  and treat this place with the little regard it deserves.   Time to smell some roses elsewhere. 

and where might that be?

[ukrules]

13 minutes ago, newnative said:

The U.S. Embassy has never actually verified income.  I remember the first time I did my income 'verifcation' I brought printouts of my monthly pension income to show the embassy staff and they didn't even glance at it.  They basically just okayed whatever I put as my income on their form.   

This is why the Thais are now demanding that verification is done by the embassy, the British embassy appears to have raised the alarm by making this announcement and people noticed.

 

They've also raised the stakes by mentioning that US citizens will be affected by this as well even though the US embassy remains silent on the issue.

 

I suspect this is their way of applying pressure on the Thais to backtrack before there's a shitstorm.

 

The Thai government have a long track record of implementing completely arbitrary rules and regulations which backfire on them in a spectacular manner - one example being the Cambodian worker exodus after they announced that unregistered workers could be imprisoned for 5 years. What did they think would happen ? They all left immediately, there was a mass exodus of Cambodians which caused some serious problems in various industries where they worked. The backtracking was epic and resulted in the foreign workers laws being suspended for about half a year.

Edited October 10, 2018 by ukrules

[JulesMad]

The unexpected 'joys' of Brexit

 

[fvw53]

14 minutes ago, Arkady said:

I am not affected by  this but I lament the further reduction of legalisation services the British Consular Section is willing to provide to its citizens and this was an important service that affects British residents.  They could have put the ball in Immigration's court by saying they would continue to verify the income based on presentation of a pension confirmation letter that looks genuine, pointing out that UK citizens could be prosecuted in the UK for making false declarations at the Consulate. Then it would be up to Immigration to say that it refuses to accept the letters.  It looks as if other farang embassies are willing to continue issuing the letters and they have probably also received the same pressure from Immigration by now, if they approached the Brits in May.

 

The Consular Section used to be a helpful 'can-do' resource for British citizens where you could show up without an appointment, be waived in by friendly Gurkha guards and get many things without any specified restrictions , not to mention getting a new British passport with a friendly vice consul signing as counter signatory. I recall getting company documents of British Virgins Islands company legalised there, as well as the translation of my Thai marriage certificate and several other documents.  Nowadays you need an appointment and they will cancel your appointment, if you want anything not on their list which is as follows:

Services we provide in Thailand

Consular staff can provide the following services only:

• affirmation of marital status
• affirmation of residency
• certified copy of British passport and British driving licence
• Consular Letter showing income for Thai Immigration – postal or email application until 12 December 2018 only
• letter of “no objection” for adoption in Thailand
• ED visa letter for internships in Thailand
• visa transfer letter

QUOTE pointing out that UK citizens could be prosecuted in the UK for making false declarations at the Consulate UNQUOTE ...as will be the case in every civilised country.

[SheungWan]

21 minutes ago, Greenhill said:

But not everyone trusts Thai banks to keep their 800,000 safe.

Then they should use an agent.

[3421abc]

I would NOT be surprised if all embassies suspend that service.

They really want to purge foreigners out of here. 

Now watch them raise that minimum to 1 million baht

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

21 minutes ago, Greenhill said:

But not everyone trusts Thai banks to keep their 800,000 safe.

 

1. Thai banks' consumer protections, not only for expats but especially for expats, are exceptionally weak compared to U.S. and other country banking systems. Which becomes a bigger issue if you're talking about large amounts on deposit here.

 

2. Thai bank interest rates are much lower than current U.S. rates. Someone above mentioned 1.9%. But I'm getting 3-4% on my fully insured U.S. bank deposits, so why would I want to park any of that money in Thailand for 1.3%?

 

3. I don't need or spend 65,000 baht in Thai cash every month, so I have absolutely no reason to be transferring that amount of money every month from the U.S. and paying not insignificant bank fees to do so.

 

[bubba]

22 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

As an American I am cofused?  So The British Embassy is now announcing the future actions of the American Embassy? I have an appointment next to get the Income Affidavit.  Should I cancel my appointment?  

I was a bit surprised by that myself – the British Embassy issuing an apparently official statement that announces forthcoming and previously unannounced policy changes at the U.S. State Department? That is not exactly standard diplomatic protocol and I am guessing that someone regrets having made that public statement, whether or not it is true.

[yellowboat]

6 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

and where might that be?

Vietnam, parts of China, Malaysia for a spell, Indonesia, Taiwan.  If you are from SheungWan, you should know where to go. 

[smedly]

43 minutes ago, AjarnMartin said:

Hi Smedley, not if you use TransferWise... ????

I just checked TransferWise and the charge for a 10,000GBP transfer is almost 60GBP

 

No Thanks  

Edited October 10, 2018 by smedly

[ukrules]

1 minute ago, bubba said:

I was a bit surprised by that myself – the British Embassy issuing an apparently official statement that announces forthcoming and previously unannounced policy changes at the U.S. State Department? That is not exactly standard diplomatic protocol and I am guessing that someone regrets having made that public statement, whether or not it is true.

I suspect the US embassy will continue issuing these letters for whatever reason you want them, but you might find that immigration no longer accept them.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

24 minutes ago, rayw said:

Well not actually correct nowadays.  Transfers are very cheap or even free today.  For example using Barclays Bank in the UK with their Internet Banking service you can transfer Sterling direct to your Thai Bank Account for free with just a flat £8 charge levied by the Thai end of the transfer, and this is for whatever amount you want to transfer up to a very high limit I believe that is far in exces than even the highest of normal UK monthly pension income.

 

 

I can't speak for the UK, but for the U.S., there are VERY few and limited options for Americans to make international fund transfers to Thailand without paying not insignificant bank international transfer fees -- both on the sending end in the U.S., and then on the receiving end by the Thai banks when they handle currency conversion.

 

And this just so happens to be coming at the same time that one of the most popular and economical international transfer methods used by Americans -- the Bangkok Bank NY branch ACH method -- is shutting down that service next April because of banking regulations.

 

 

Edited October 10, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[smotherb]

2 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

"...Earlier this week the Canadian Embassy in Bangkok confirmed no change to its current process..."

 

Great to be Canadian, eh?

 

My sympathies to the Brits and the Yanks...

 

 

The US Embassy website still says $50 and a sworn statement--they take the word of their citizens as well as $50.

 

However, bringing in enough money to cover the B65k/month is no problem for those who have it. It is just those who do not have that to spend that this will affect. Maybe the Thais have something on their minds; like get rid of those who do not spend enough here. Call it your entrance fee to the land of smiles.

[brewsterbudgen]

The British government does not have time for expats...They are to busy laying out the red carpet and giving loads of benefits to all the new immigrants arriving in England...  

If only that were the case! Immigration from non-EU countries is now almost impossible, and post-Brexit it might be equally as difficult for EU citizens. It's difficult enough to even get your Thai wife into the UK - and impossible if you don't meet the financial requirements.

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[SheungWan]

52 minutes ago, Runamile said:

My sense of the situation is to point a finger at the British Embassy to the extent that the suggested solution isn't one at all for many people ie that monies have to be in a Thai bank account. If the British Embassy felt they could not verify to the level of forensic expertise required then in my mind the question is why not continue to offer the service, but outsourced to a contract-holder who do have the expertise, just as embassies of many nationalities have done for many years when faced with the inability to continue a service from internal embassy resources. I feel sure that British pensioners would have happily paid an enhanced rate for such a necessary service.

Outsourcing verification works until it doesn't and it failed spectacularly during the last financial crisis. It should also be noted that even if the verification process is outsourced, the responsibility for any decisions cannot be. The UK will have considered said option and probably turned it down for said reason.

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

You can barely open a bank account now without a work permit. 

 

Took my mate to the Bangkok Bank in the Emporium, explained that he needs a bank account for his retirement visa to pay the 800k into (he's minted so no issues) and was told no, need to have work permit. I argued that he was retired and is not working LOL. Was told cannot open bank account without work permit. 

 

He did it in Pattaya instead. 

Is he getting interest?

 

 

[wealthychef]

2 hours ago, SkyNets said:

So just get a print out from your Thai bank showing your pension payments. Whats the problem, unless you have been lying.....

My payouts don't go to a Thai bank.  Keeping ฿ 800,000 in a Thai bank costs me money as it cannot earn an ROI there.  Making this the only way to verify income is idiotic in my opinion. 

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, GruenJD said:

I have seen a number of comment posts that seem to think that this mess is all the fault of the British Embassy.  But not exactly. Back in May of this year, Thai Immigration met with representatives of several Foreign Embassies in Bkk. Thai Immigration officials insisted that the Foreign Embassies verify the accuracy of the financial information in the Embassy Income Letter / Sworn Income Affidavit / Statutory Declaration., etc.  This was not a new rule, but as often is the case - it was just not enforced. They had just begun to insist on complying with an old never before enforced rule. 

 

For at least 10-12 years or longer the Foreign Embassies have been proccessing these documents that were to be used in processing "retirement" and "marriage" Extensions of Stay for Expats. But they were in no way verifying the accuracy of the financial content of the submissions Even though the British Embassy did require bank or pension documents, etc. to be presented. However, these documents were never really examined more than in a cursory manner.  At the American Embassy no documents in evidence were never required - ever!

Bottomline to this Thai Immigration Officials had to have known all these years that no validation or verification was being done.  To pretend otherwise is balderdash. Foreign Embassies do not routinely verify, validate or investigate documents - especially repetitive documents as these financial submissions. Most times only the ID of the Signatory is checked and the Expat swears the document is correct and true (at least at the American Embassy - I know first hand).

Embassies do not have an investigative element to verify the content of hundreds and thousands of documents each year.  To do so would be a big burden. 

Thai Immigration instigated this change in rule enforcement.  The Embassies are saying that they cannot be responsible for verification (for reasons stated above) AND had never really been doing anything but stamping documents before with a Notary Stamp to verify ID and Statement of the Signatory.

Excellent.

[dufusdonald]

The US Consulate still provides the letter BUT Immigration requires proof.  So the letter means nothing in reality. Another epic scam.  And it used to be you could simply show your Social Security being deposited in a US bank.  Now, not so sure.  

 

You could even have a million bucks cash in a US bank and be refused renewal. Even God cannot understand why he did what he did.  lol

 

I suspect the Thais want the 800000 baht (27K US) in their banks cause they need the dough. I also suspect they must get a cut from the Consulate for the 1500 baht fee (I heard now it is 2000 baht but not confirmed).

Edited October 10, 2018 by dufusdonald

[smedly]

41 minutes ago, Greenhill said:

I used to send 3 months original UK bank statements, showing my monthly income and I cannot see why the Brit Emb. cannot still verify these, as they don't have to check any further - unless they think original Lloyds Bank statements would not be telling the truth?! 

It is Thai Immigration you need to convince not the BE,  and that applies to all foreign Nationals not just Brits, we will se how this unfolds, apart from the Thai Authorities and their knee jerk unplanned way of doing things, I think Embassy letters/Affidavits are coming to an end but they need to provide clear guidance as to what they need going forward - lets face it, the Embassy involvement was a joke anyway and an expensive waste of time and effort  

[malibukid]

has anyone ever applied for a retirement visa in Kuala Lumpur?

[blackhorse]

The US Consulate still provides the letter BUT Immigration requires proof.  So the letter means nothing in reality. Another epic scam.  And it used to be you could simply show your Social Security being deposited in a US bank.  Now, not so sure.  

 

You could even have a million bucks cash in a US bank and be refused renewal. Even God cannot understand why he did what he did.  lol

Tell me why immigration don't require income proof for oz statuary declaration but do so for the yanks?

 

I know Americans who are staying here that couldn't if they needed proof

 

You maybe talking about a specific office only

 

[simoh1490]

2 hours ago, SkyNets said:

Keep the lump sums nice and safe in your home country's bank and send your self 65.000 every month

If posters are afraid of even keeping money in banks in Thailand they shouldn't even be in the country in the first place, some of the banks are some of the safest around, Bank of Ayudhya for example is part of Bank Mitsubishi (Tokyo) which has assets in the trillions of USD.

[melonf]

It doesn't really sound practical to allow people just to show income for 3 months. That would just need say 120,000 (if married to Thai). I guess Thailand needs something more substantial to say that this income is somehow guaranteed for the next 9 months. I suspect that Thai Immigration simply cannot accept the UK suggestions as they are written by the British Embassy.

[jacob1950]

The Dutch ambassy changed the rule about the income letter.

first you have to ask the income tax department your total income letter,after you received the letter ,send to the ambassy and ask for the income letter what stated your

controled incom .

 

[malibukid]

3 minutes ago, dufusdonald said:

The US Consulate still provides the letter BUT Immigration requires proof.  So the letter means nothing in reality. Another epic scam.  And it used to be you could simply show your Social Security being deposited in a US bank.  Now, not so sure.  

 

You could even have a million bucks cash in a US bank and be refused renewal. Even God cannot understand why he did what he did.  lol

 

I suspect the Thais want the 800000 baht (27K US) in their banks cause they need the dough. I also suspect they must get a cut from the Consulate for the 1500 baht fee (I heard now it is 2000 baht but not confirmed).

evidently the British consulate knew about this in May, could have gotten all the documents together when i was back in L.A.  8 years ago i spent a day going around to my banks and brokers in Century City in L.A. in order to bring the documents back here and present them to the officer at immigration.  he just laughed and said i did not need all the paper work

[Snoozy]

2 hours ago, crazykopite said:

Will be interested to hear what Big Joke thinks about this new development . I can see a mass exodus to neighbouring countries who will be more than happy to watch and see us put our money into there economy. 

Honestly, I think that is exactly what they would like. My belief is they surely want tourist dollars, but they really don't want westerners living here full time, you know, as it we are the source of Thailand's crime and other problems. Once they have all of our banking info, who is to say they change some rule and seize accounts as well.