Yet more confusion over the removal of Income Certification Letter for British expats

[SheungWan]

7 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Of course you have nothing new because you have made no positive comments regarding this issue except defend BE.  Your are entitled to your opinion but so is everyone else. I have no skin in the game as I have a variety of methods I can use.  Many people have posted and given positive ideas that could be negotiated with BE and Thai Imm.  Unfortunately- most people on the board cannot go into the BE and have them negotiate with Thai Imm.  Since BE represents British interests in Thailand- their modus operandi needs to be finding a solution that works for ALL.

However, If people act in good faith and listen to each other and provide positive feedback- most things work out.

Unfortunately for some people here 'positive' is just conflated with agreeing with them and life always has to have a happy ending.

[SheungWan]

6 hours ago, doctormann said:

The investment company then requires proof of identity and proof of address.  Both reasonable requirements although the list of documents that can be used for proof of address seems to get more limited all the time.

I don't think there is an identity/address problem if your investments are with/through your bank. Emails for sure no good, but that applies across the board, no?

[SheungWan]

5 hours ago, Bwlch said:

Surely your P60 gives you proof of income.

 

3 hours ago, HHTel said:

Not everyone gets a P60.

I wouldn't throw it away just because of that.

[sambum]

8 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Several Law firms in Bangkok have British lawyers on staff who could  provide the same function as the BE does now. Has the BE made any effort at all to outsource this function?  British citizens need to be proactive and make sure their Embassy is being asked pertinent questions.

And hope that they get pertinent answers from the BE!

 

In my case, nothing apart from the bog standard acknowledgement of my enquiry!

[SheungWan]

6 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Trust in life,it's not there to thwart you and has taken care of you so far, the solution will be simple, TI wants it that way and so do we. Of course it is worrying but worry never did any good, patience is required and if possible plan for the worst outcome if you can. I've been here for 13 years, during that time several things changed, both positive and negative but I am still here and hope to be in the future until I meet the bright light.

A glass half-full man!

[Esso49]

1 minute ago, sambum said:

And hope that they get pertinent answers from the BE!

 

In my case, nothing apart from the bog standard acknowledgement of my enquiry!

+1

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

I think the Thai immigration solution will be this:-

"We need an embassy letter".

"No letter?" "Must use the 400k/800k in a Thai bank for the specified amount of time".

 

Sounds all too realistic, doesn't it?

 

For Brits and Brits only, the income route is dead. Toast. Finished.

For those affected by this you've already hoped for the best. It's now time for you to plan for the worst.

 

2 hours ago, soalbundy said:

That has yet to be seen, I am not affected by this but I hope that a solution ls found for my fellow Brits and I think it will be, the TI has sufficient time before it becomes critical. The last resort could be the agent route.

Maybe there will be a last minute 'stay' but not long to go now.

[HHTel]

The 'agent route' keeps getting mentioned but aren't the powers cracking down on these agents.  Read recently that they have been banned from Chang Mai immigration.  With the new boss, I'm sure this will spread.

[sambum]

7 hours ago, doctormann said:

And how long did that take?  Not quick, I bet.

No problem with bank transfers - it's getting the money into the UK bank in the first place that's the issue.

I've never had a problem getting money into a UK bank! I think the issue for most people on here is getting  money from a UK bank to a Thai bank!

 

[Joe Mcseismic]

11 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

A glass half-full man!

The glass is always full.

What has to be determined is the ratio of liquid to gas.

[SheungWan]

6 hours ago, Bwlch said:

Surely your P60 gives you proof of income.

Yes it does, but that is yearly income and my understanding of the income method visa extension process is that there is not a requirement for yearly income declaration. Also, monthly income is not calculated on the basis of yearly income/12. The requirement is for specific monthly incomes. (I am happy to be corrected on this understanding).

Edited October 21, 2018 by SheungWan

[sambum]

7 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

How could a British lawyer provide the same function as the BE does now ? The current function is a letter written by the consulate and signed by the consulate. A British lawyer writing a letter and signing it would be no different to a note from your mum. A British lawyer could maybe witness affidavits/declarations, the same as the other embassies currently do for their citizens. But currently TI only accepts declarations witnessed by embassies.

deleted

[doctormann]

10 minutes ago, sambum said:

I've never had a problem getting money into a UK bank! I think the issue for most people on here is getting  money from a UK bank to a Thai bank!

 

 

I was referring to the OP who said that had sold land and put the proceeds into his bank.  The whole process of selling the land will surely not have been quick.

 

I've never had a problem getting money from my UK bank into my Thai account - usually appears in my account within 48 hours and often quicker than that.

[SheungWan]

21 minutes ago, HHTel said:

The 'agent route' keeps getting mentioned but aren't the powers cracking down on these agents.  Read recently that they have been banned from Chang Mai immigration.  With the new boss, I'm sure this will spread.

Well maybe. The agent or the newsvine will advise you if there actually is a problem occurring in that area.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, richiejom said:

My agent said the current income embassy letter I have is OK and show some money in Thai bank (30K) just as backup

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/230120

The petition is doing well...if we get over 200 is a good start...I saw many petitions fail to break 100... 

 

177 signatures at 17:50 this evening. Keep it rolling.

[sambum]

1 hour ago, doctormann said:

 

I was referring to the OP who said that had sold land and put the proceeds into his bank.  The whole process of selling the land will surely not have been quick.

 

I've never had a problem getting money from my UK bank into my Thai account - usually appears in my account within 48 hours and often quicker than that.

My apologies - point taken!

 

When I said "problem" I meant the additional expense - maybe you could enlighten me/us - how much does it cost you to transfer money from a UK bank to a Thai bank? - I've heard conflicting  reports.

[CharlieH]

2 minutes ago, sambum said:

My apologies - point taken!

 

When I said "problem" I meant the additional expense - maybe you could enlighten me/us - how much does it cost you to transfer money from a UK bank to a Thai bank? - I've heard conflicting  reports.

Depending on the bank between £4 - £25

[sambum]

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Yes it does, but that is yearly income and my understanding of the income method visa extension process is that there is not a requirement for yearly income declaration. Also, monthly income is not calculated on the basis of yearly income/12. The requirement is for specific monthly incomes. (I am happy to be corrected on this understanding).

Daily, weekly, monthly, annually - you just have to specify which it is. For instance, I opt to have a set annual payment from a Bond that I hold to cover an annual payment that I have to make - I just have to note on the form that is a once yearly payment as part of my income - they are not made aware of what I spend it on.

 

Just to be clear, I am referring to the form that you submit to the BE with the details of your income. The letter that the BE provides you with gives a total annual income figure in British Pounds, and Immigration then convert that to baht at the exchange rate that they are using at the time, which is why it is always advisable to show income of a bit more than the basic baht requirement (400/800 K)

Edited October 21, 2018 by sambum

[sambum]

20 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Depending on the bank between £4 - £25

Thanks!

 

[doctormann]

27 minutes ago, sambum said:

My apologies - point taken!

 

When I said "problem" I meant the additional expense - maybe you could enlighten me/us - how much does it cost you to transfer money from a UK bank to a Thai bank? - I've heard conflicting  reports.

What CharlieH said.  The receiving bank may also make a small charge but nothing much.

I always transfer Sterling and let the Thai bank do the conversion.  The FOREX rate is much better that way.

[sambum]

17 minutes ago, doctormann said:

What CharlieH said.  The receiving bank may also make a small charge but nothing much.

I always transfer Sterling and let the Thai bank do the conversion.  The FOREX rate is much better that way.

And also thanks for your advice - I suspect (not hope!) that a few on here may be needing a few tips if this proof of income debacle doesn't get sorted soon!

 

[Jim1000]

Obviously this all has to pan out in some  way - for outside income or combo  applicants  , since the Embassy letter  , if I understand it correctly ,   only certified your signature on the letter  and not the actual overseas income amount  ,  could  this instead  be done by a Thai  lawyer in the normal way for a small fee  ?

 

Seems to me this would be a sensible compromise and even better for  not having to drag up or down  to the Embassy ever year .

 

[CharlieH]

1 minute ago, Jim1000 said:

Obviously this all has to pan out in some  way - for outside income or combo  applicants  , since the Embassy letter  , if I understand it correctly ,   only certified your signature on the letter  and not the actual overseas income amount  ,  could  this instead  be done by a Thai  lawyer in the normal way for a small fee  ?

 

Seems to me this would be a sensible compromise and even better for  not having to drag up or down  to the Embassy ever year .

 

No it confirmed the "income", and it is not/was not necessary to visit the Embassy to get it. It was done by mail by most.

[sambum]

1 hour ago, CharlieH said:

No it confirmed the "income", and it is not/was not necessary to visit the Embassy to get it. It was done by mail by most.

And the letter itself is/was not signed by the applicant - only the application form.

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, sambum said:

Daily, weekly, monthly, annually - you just have to specify which it is. For instance, I opt to have a set annual payment from a Bond that I hold to cover an annual payment that I have to make - I just have to note on the form that is a once yearly payment as part of my income - they are not made aware of what I spend it on.

 

Just to be clear, I am referring to the form that you submit to the BE with the details of your income. The letter that the BE provides you with gives a total annual income figure in British Pounds, and Immigration then convert that to baht at the exchange rate that they are using at the time, which is why it is always advisable to show income of a bit more than the basic baht requirement (400/800 K)

So if an annual figure is/was acceptable, you say that you submitted the details of your income. In that case would a P60 have been acceptable in that it provided a total or unacceptable because it does not provide specific details? Anybody tested this in the past?

[sambum]

30 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

So if an annual figure is/was acceptable, you say that you submitted the details of your income. In that case would a P60 have been acceptable in that it provided a total or unacceptable because it does not provide specific details? Anybody tested this in the past?

No - I am pretty sure that the only proof of income that is acceptable is the Proof of Income form provided by the Embassy. That is what the fuss is all about. Your suggestion re the P60 makes sense, as do several other suggestions that have been made, but the fact remains that after the Embassy stops accepting applications for letters on 12th December,  the only other option at the moment, is the "money  in the bank" route where the Thai Bank issues a covering letter. 

[CharlieH]

In very simplistic terms, and the way that most I.O operate, the BE have removed the round peg, for the round hole, other pegs are not accepted or considered for fit, it must be the round peg or the I.Officer cannot proceed, it doesnt compute with their method or preferred way to do it. ????

 

Until someone somewhere higher up, tells them other pegs can fit they are blinkered. End of story.

[HHTel]

7 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

177 signatures at 17:50 this evening. Keep it rolling.

only 9,823 more and we're entitled to a response!

another 99,823 and a decision will be made on whether it will be debated.

 

[HHTel]

The BE has never produced a letter showing 'proof' of income.  They only state the evidence that the applicant has tendered.  The signature (which is only on the application) is also not confirmed/certified as it is signed off-line.

 

It does state at the bottom of the letter that there is no certification attached to the letter.

 

The problem as I see it is that TI are looking for verification because as we all know, documents can be easily forged (even bank statements).

 

Have a wander down Kao San Road and you will see realistic 'copies' of various documents from ID cards to University Degrees.

[chickenslegs]

25 minutes ago, richiejom said:

Its on 186 now...so its gone up 9 signatures in 8 hours

 

In fact I noticed many of the past petitions on the gov site don't make it past 70 signatures so ours is doing quite well for only 3-4 days live

 

The main thing is that those who believe in it push for publicity...keeping the link circulating https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/230120

 

Considering its got 6 months to achieve 10,000 signatures thats 50 signatures a day

 

At least if we got a response they would properly have to justify why they've not given us an alternative

 

This actually something we can do as a community of expats to get recognition

Might do better if the mods would move this thread and the petition thread into General Topics, where (IMHO) it would gain more attention..