Big Joke going after his own incompetent men: Chiang Mai immigration under fire

[Assurancetourix]

4 minutes ago, ratcatcher said:

Up here in pastoral Phichit, you don't even need a TM47 anymore. 

Same same at Sakon Nakhon Immigration

[hugocnx]

4 hours ago, scorecard said:

So if the volume of transactions has increased a lot (seems it has) then there is a clear case for more staff or more efficiency or both.

 

I've noticed many comments over the last few years from the imm. boss in CM that he cannot get approval for more staff.

 

Why not? Maybe Bkk consider that the staff to transactions ratio is suitable as it is?

 

Or, has he received more funds but ......

 

 

I am not denying it could be a tough job, but, seen many same faces there for the last ten years so it cannot be that bad. Moreover, extra staff? Productivity should be raised and can be raised if only they wanted to. Maybe BKK boss knows this too.

[Leatherneck]

What a difference two days can make.

 

Was at CM immigration early on Tuesday morning to extend my retirement visa for another year. My very reliable visa agent for 7 years had already secured the first spot in a very long line of about 40-50 people. At 7, I was given my number F1. Thought processing would then start, but was told I had to wait until 8:30 to begin so I drank more coffee than I should have over the intervening time. Once started, the process went quite well and I was out of there with my visa extension and a new entry permit before 10:30 (and I didn't have to pay any "tip" this year, unlike previous years). Of course my visa agent deserves most of the credit for making it quick and easy. While I was there, a uniformed VIP came in with two underlings. While he walked through the office, one of his underlings was taking photos of him talking to individual staff and acting important. You could tell that the staff was all uptight with him walking around and just kept their heads down on the grind stone. I asked my agent who he was and she said that's the "big boss" for CM immigration.

 

Move forward to this morning and I went in at about 8:15 to pick up a completed residence certificate do I can buy a new motorbike. Just so happened, my agent also was there and she told me that someone complained on Facebook about the office operations on Tuesday, the very day the "big boss" was doing his photo op. She told me that Big Joke heard about the complaint and laid down the law. According to her, the "big boss" was sent down to Bangkok...the rumour mill is that it's a permanent transfer, but time will tell. The staff was also told that they will start processing people at 6 AM sharp (apparently no more waiting around until 8:30, at least for the time-being). 

 

So in less than 48 hours, a head(s) rolled and operations were turned on its head. 

 

PS. Also learned from my visa agent that Big Joke's name doesn't mean what I thought it meant. She said "joke" is a type of food, like porridge or congee, in Thai and doesn't connote the English meaning. Based on what I've read about Big Joke's work so far in CM and elsewhere, sounds like he's anything but a "joke".

Edited October 18, 2018 by Leatherneck

[mindfulness]

1 hour ago, flexomike said:

why do you need more than a TM47 for a 90 day report

 

Ask the incompetents at CNX immigration office. Did 90 day reports in the new Phetchabun office, i explained to them I was wanting to make a 90 day report, could I have the form. Lady immigration officer just asked for my passport gave me the 90day report slip done by a printout, done. 

So 1, I did not have to fill the form out and no signiture. 

2 I didn’t have to make any photo copies and sign them 

 

 

[mindfulness]

9 minutes ago, Leatherneck said:

What a difference two days can make.

 

Was at CM immigration early on Tuesday morning to extend my retirement visa for another year. My very reliable visa agent for 7 years had already secured the first spot in a very long line of about 40-50 people. At 7, I was given my number F1. Thought processing would then start, but was told I had to wait until 8:30 to begin so I drank more coffee than I should have over the intervening time. Once started, the process went quite well and I was out of there with my visa extension and a new entry permit before 10:30 (and I didn't have to pay any "tip" this year, unlike previous years). Of course my visa agent deserves most of the credit for making it quick and easy. While I was there, a uniformed VIP came in with two underlings. While he walked through the office, one of his underlings was taking photos of him talking to individual staff and acting important. You could tell that the staff was all uptight with him walking around and just kept their heads down on the grind stone. I asked my agent who he was and she said that's the "big boss" for CM immigration.

 

Move forward to this morning and I went in at about 8:15 to pick up a completed residence certificate do I can buy a new motorbike. Just so happened, my agent also was there and she told me that someone complained on Facebook about the office operations on Tuesday, the very day the "big boss" was doing his photo op. She told me that Big Joke heard about the complaint and laid down the law. According to her, the "big boss" was sent down to Bangkok...the rumour mill is that it's a permanent transfer, but time will tell. The staff was also told that they will start processing people at 6 AM sharp (apparently no more waiting around until 8:30, at least for the time-being). 

 

So in less than 48 hours, a head(s) rolled and operations were turned on its head. 

 

PS. Also learned from my visa agent that Big Joke's name doesn't mean what I thought it meant. She said "joke" is a type of food, like porridge or congee, in Thai and doesn't connote the English meaning. Based on what I've read about Big Joke's work so far in CM and elsewhere, sounds like he's anything but a "joke".

LOL Start at 6am they’ll love that 55555 ! 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, connda said:

Ok!  If Maj Gen Surachet Hakpal follows though on this, I'll shut up and Big Joke becomes my official Thai hero! 

 

I think people should think of his CM Immigration public comments as a good TEST!

 

If 3 or 6 months from now, folks are still having to queue up overnight or arrive before the crack of dawn just to get a queue ticket, then everyone will know just what Big Joke is about.

 

On the other hand, if the guy actually forces meaningful changes and improvements at CM Immigration, then that will be the answer that will be plain and clear for everyone to see and know.

 

It's one thing to round up and arrest a bunch of bedraggled overstayers.  It's an entirely different thing to try to force the Thai bureaucracy, his own bureaucracy, to operate with any efficiency or customer service focus.

[Grusa]

5 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

I have scanned color copies of my passport, 4 pages to a sheet of paper, as well as all relevant documents. 

I used to do this at Jomtien, now told unacceptable, one or two facing pages per sheet. I used to fit four pages and departure card all on one sheet. Cretins.

[Zack61]

Sounds promising. I find Chiang Rai much easier to negotiate than CM whom I dealt with for 4 years but there is room for improvement here as well. One female nazi imm officer in particular needs to be relocated to Siberia and a few more staff to move things along a bit faster..... and leave their smart phones outside

[Zack61]

15 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I think people should think of his CM Immigration public comments as a good TEST!

 

If 3 or 6 months from now, folks are still having to queue up overnight or arrive before the crack of dawn just to get a queue ticket, then everyone will know just what Big Joke is about.

 

On the other hand, if the guy actually forces meaningful changes and improvements at CM Immigration, then that will be the answer that will be plain and clear for everyone to see and know.

 

It's one thing to round up and arrest a bunch of bedraggled overstayers.  It's an entirely different thing to try to force the Thai bureaucracy, his own bureaucracy, to operate with any efficiency or customer service focus.

For sure. The proof will be in the outcome. Let's see how tough he really is or is it all lip service? Not sure he'll be getting a lot of cooperation if he is serious.

[0815]

6 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

In all honesty, in the 10 years I've been dealing with CM Imm, only once have I ever had a problem, and that was a minor one.  I've learned which are the best days and times to go for both my 90 day and yearly.  Yesterday I merely chalk up to new facility "jitters", but it was nothing serious.  And today, from the time I got out of the car, till the time I had my new 90 day, was less than 5 minutes. I have scanned color copies of my passport, 4 pages to a sheet of paper, as well as all relevant documents.  Once had a guy there tell me that if everyone did theirs the way I do mine, their job would be much easier, and faster.  But then, I've always been something of a fanatic for keeping things organized and neat. 

 

Hero ????

 

[uksmdh]

6 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

In all honesty, in the 10 years I've been dealing with CM Imm, only once have I ever had a problem, and that was a minor one.  I've learned which are the best days and times to go for both my 90 day and yearly.  Yesterday I merely chalk up to new facility "jitters", but it was nothing serious.  And today, from the time I got out of the car, till the time I had my new 90 day, was less than 5 minutes. I have scanned color copies of my passport, 4 pages to a sheet of paper, as well as all relevant documents.  Once had a guy there tell me that if everyone did theirs the way I do mine, their job would be much easier, and faster.  But then, I've always been something of a fanatic for keeping things organized and neat. 

 

Am I missing something or is this a prime example of an incoherent  system.  Walk in to Bluport Mall IO.  Generally few users so ticketing takes moments. Produce Passport no copies, no Paperwork, question "same address" answer "yes" minute later new printed receipt attached "see you in 90 days".

[0815]

Please Mr.BJ if you come to Chiang Mai to make fire under their a..es, go to Chiang Rai immigration and give them a big praise.
They are the most friendly and relaxed immigration officers i've ever seen.

[Dumbastheycome]

47 minutes ago, mindfulness said:

Ask the incompetents at CNX immigration office. Did 90 day reports in the new Phetchabun office, i explained to them I was wanting to make a 90 day report, could I have the form. Lady immigration officer just asked for my passport gave me the 90day report slip done by a printout, done. 

So 1, I did not have to fill the form out and no signiture. 

2 I didn’t have to make any photo copies and sign them 

 

 

Exactly that where I do mine. Simply hand over passport. Last 90 day form removed, new one printed  out after a  few  seconds of computer check of details. Time from entering the office  to  departing  was  less than  5 minutes.

If the new top man is bringing the hammer down on dodgy offices and officers so be it. Maybe  sadly for those that are compelled to use  "agents" to circumnavigate correct requirements they have  my condolences  but  not my sympathy. It is very likely the path  is being  made straighter and  narrower on  both sides. Live with it  or?

 

[balo]

2 hours ago, German farang said:

Is Big Joke now a "TV" reader?

Interesting question.

I would think that he has asked others to translate some of the threads here. After all it's the most busy expat forum in Asia.  

So any real complaints from expats or illegal activities would keep him busy for a while. 

 

[NoshowJones]

7 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

In all honesty, in the 10 years I've been dealing with CM Imm, only once have I ever had a problem, and that was a minor one.  I've learned which are the best days and times to go for both my 90 day and yearly.  Yesterday I merely chalk up to new facility "jitters", but it was nothing serious.  And today, from the time I got out of the car, till the time I had my new 90 day, was less than 5 minutes. I have scanned color copies of my passport, 4 pages to a sheet of paper, as well as all relevant documents.  Once had a guy there tell me that if everyone did theirs the way I do mine, their job would be much easier, and faster.  But then, I've always been something of a fanatic for keeping things organized and neat. 

 

Just out of curiosity, does Chaing Mai immigration not allow 90 days reporting by post? I am not saying this is true, but I read somewhere that there were three IOs in Thailand who did not allow 90 day reports by post. Should Big Joke not look in to that?

[orchidfan]

7 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

And roll on the day when it's in a database and you don't need new hard copies.

 

I've often wondered where all these documents are stored, how big the storage is and stored for how long.

 

seems to me the whole size would be a couple of major rice silos.

 

And what happens if old documents are needed for a court case or whatever? Is there a management system to find documents by dates / box numbers etc? Does the system work?

 

And finally i wonder what the annual cost of rental is for the storage facility / facilities?

 

Must be hundreds of millions of Baht.

I took a photo one time while waiting of the aircraft AV Container size pile of paperwork stored in the corner of the Imm office ...it was 3 months worth according to the sticker on the side. Anyone got shares in paper mills??

[trainman34014]

4 minutes ago, orchidfan said:

I took a photo one time while waiting of the aircraft AV Container size pile of paperwork stored in the corner of the Imm office ...it was 3 months worth according to the sticker on the side. Anyone got shares in paper mills??

Sold to recyclers and great for tea money collection.  They don't shred it either so all our personal details are out there for every scumbag to see, lovely isn't it !

[NoshowJones]

4 hours ago, crazykopite said:

Am I correct in believing that for your 90 day report you have to submit copies of your passport . I have never done that in 13 years just turn up and confirm my address normally takes 10 minutes although a few years back I did wait for over two hours but in those days we had birdman and he loved to be tipped something I refused to do ! The only thing that is annoying is not being able to do the 90 day reporting on line as I have to get a ferry to get to immigration which is a pain in the butt.

But didn't a couple of posters say just this week that 90 day reporting only took 10 minutes.

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, Leatherneck said:

What a difference two days can make.

 

Was at CM immigration early on Tuesday morning to extend my retirement visa for another year. My very reliable visa agent for 7 years had already secured the first spot in a very long line of about 40-50 people. At 7, I was given my number F1. Thought processing would then start, but was told I had to wait until 8:30 to begin so I drank more coffee than I should have over the intervening time. Once started, the process went quite well and I was out of there with my visa extension and a new entry permit before 10:30 (and I didn't have to pay any "tip" this year, unlike previous years). Of course my visa agent deserves most of the credit for making it quick and easy. While I was there, a uniformed VIP came in with two underlings. While he walked through the office, one of his underlings was taking photos of him talking to individual staff and acting important. You could tell that the staff was all uptight with him walking around and just kept their heads down on the grind stone. I asked my agent who he was and she said that's the "big boss" for CM immigration.

 

Move forward to this morning and I went in at about 8:15 to pick up a completed residence certificate do I can buy a new motorbike. Just so happened, my agent also was there and she told me that someone complained on Facebook about the office operations on Tuesday, the very day the "big boss" was doing his photo op. She told me that Big Joke heard about the complaint and laid down the law. According to her, the "big boss" was sent down to Bangkok...the rumour mill is that it's a permanent transfer, but time will tell. The staff was also told that they will start processing people at 6 AM sharp (apparently no more waiting around until 8:30, at least for the time-being). 

 

So in less than 48 hours, a head(s) rolled and operations were turned on its head. 

 

PS. Also learned from my visa agent that Big Joke's name doesn't mean what I thought it meant. She said "joke" is a type of food, like porridge or congee, in Thai and doesn't connote the English meaning. Based on what I've read about Big Joke's work so far in CM and elsewhere, sounds like he's anything but a "joke".

Maybe he is not a joke, but his rank certainly is. Major General?? and not even in the army.

[Thailand]

I guess if Nancy was Chinese Chiangmai immigration would have been running smoothly for a couple of years already. ????

[mercman24]

just walk in with my passport no paperwork,no copies of this no copies of that etc, at Jomtien immigration. heaven, in and out in no time at all, compared to Chanwattana, when i queued for hours,and then the glorious dinner break

[Sydebolle]

As said, forget about employing thousands of people by complicating matters and just pumping up the bureaucracy. 
Any business with "public service" must be, also in the interest of Thailand's government, sped up. The mind boggles over all those copies of copies to be signed with blue, but not green, black nor red ink, one side only (as the other side is used as notes paper by the very same civil servants). 
The countless visa types, the hand-written TM6 forms which are difficult to decipher, the 90 days notification, the TM30 and the god-only-knows-what-other-fine-papers they have in mind - all for the dustbin; honestly. I have NEVER seen any of those officers actually reading/checking these copies; they are being staples, punched, glued, tuckered and affixed otherwise. The procedures are far too complicated for those handling the public front (of which most are not the sharpest knives in the drawer); challenged already with English - the works.

The government cannot limit the number of people/files per day; if there are more people than they can handle you might either increase the number of officers or look into, if you really need all that paperwork. 

Leaving Thailand temporarily still requires a re-entry visa; double the fee and forget about this extra paperwork/stamp/copies of copies.

Leaving Thailand by car requires a "international transport permit" or ITP; valid only for Laos. Malaysia deals differently with Thai-plated cars and Cambodia remains locked unless you go for the merry-go-round of Cambodian bureaucracy. Thai-plated cars can enter Myanmar and Vietnam only as a convoy (for good reason!). The ITP is valid for one year and can be extended by max. two other years. You need to fill in an application form for this ITP (which lists your vehicle's details in all English). This though is a matter of the Department of Land Transport; another beehive of bureaucracy. 
 
The immigration though (on leaving for i.e. Laos) by vehicle requires an "Information of Conveyance" in duplicate, a passenger list and a crew list (TM2 two-fold, TM3 and TM4). In addition a non-Thai needs the TM6 and gets on leaving a reversed "temporary import declaration" which would fine the holder, if the (Thai-plated) car is returned later than one month back to Thailand. Everything contains engine/chassis number, needs to be signed by applicant and is countersigned and stamped and not ONE officer ever looked at what paper (s)he was given/handling. 

Either increase the staff or slim down - I fear the slimming down remains a dream though ???? 

 

[csmith]

I submitted a post with photos … what happened to it?

[Lacessit]

45 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Just out of curiosity, does Chaing Mai immigration not allow 90 days reporting by post? I am not saying this is true, but I read somewhere that there were three IOs in Thailand who did not allow 90 day reports by post. Should Big Joke not look in to that?

There's a guy in my condo who does his 90 day report to CM Immigration by post.

IMHO CM Immigration is screaming out for computerization. You see officers checking and double-checking all the bits of paper such as visa numbers and bank statements, which is totally unnecessary and make-work.

They should be able to simply enter a number ( e.g. Passport ) on a keyboard and look at a screen for verification. Although that would put a number of Immigration staff on the dole queue. Oh wait, they don't have dole queues here.

[Formaleins]

About time they were sorted out! The worst immigration office in Thailand hands down.  Let's hope people FORCED to use them will see an improvement (no that that would be difficult!) It is time people were given a bit of politeness, treated with a bit of dignity and stop treating them like cattle! Hopefully it will stop their thieving corrupt extortion for tea money in the bargain.

[Formaleins]

34 minutes ago, mercman24 said:

just walk in with my passport no paperwork,no copies of this no copies of that etc, at Jomtien immigration. heaven, in and out in no time at all, compared to Chanwattana, when i queued for hours,and then the glorious dinner break

You are spoiled rotten mate! One trip to Immigration at Chiang Mai leaves you asking "<deleted> am I doing here? There has to be better places to live in the world, where I don't have to put up with this shit everytime" I hope the guy goes through those swine like a dose of salts.

[Saladin]

I went to CM Immigration on Tuesday with my visa agent (OS Visa) and was quite surprised at how much better it was than when it operated from there previously and at Promenada. In my case I was there for 15 minutes which is the advantage of using an agent. Bur although there were hundreds of customers, Immigration had plenty of active desks quickly churning them through. This improvement is due to Immigration finally introducing a ticket number dispensing machine as used by the banks.It seemed to me that if there were lengthy delays it was not because of incompetence but rather the overwhelming numbers of applicants and not enough staff to service them. Of course if Thai Immigration simplified their incomprehensible and time wasting visa regulations they wouldn't need half the staff in the first place. 

[chickenslegs]

36 minutes ago, csmith said:

I submitted a post with photos … what happened to it?

I can see a post of yours with photos. Post #51 on page 4. Is that it?

[NoshowJones]

46 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

There's a guy in my condo who does his 90 day report to CM Immigration by post.

IMHO CM Immigration is screaming out for computerization. You see officers checking and double-checking all the bits of paper such as visa numbers and bank statements, which is totally unnecessary and make-work.

They should be able to simply enter a number ( e.g. Passport ) on a keyboard and look at a screen for verification. Although that would put a number of Immigration staff on the dole queue. Oh wait, they don't have dole queues here.

Excellent post here mate.

[sappersrest]

26 minutes ago, Formaleins said:

About time they were sorted out! The worst immigration office in Thailand hands down.  Let's hope people FORCED to use them will see an improvement (no that that would be difficult!) It is time people were given a bit of politeness, treated with a bit of dignity and stop treating them like cattle! Hopefully it will stop their thieving corrupt extortion for tea money in the bargain.

The staff at Chiang Mai immigration have always treated me with the utmost curtesy and respect, some times the waiting for 90 day and tm 30 can be a bit tedious, but that  may be improved  in the near future hopefully.

The frontline staff do a good job.