Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[marcusarelus]

10 minutes ago, HHTel said:

One option to avoid holding a lump sum in Thai baht is to keep in a Foreign Currency account.  That way your cash will be in US dollars or GBP which you can draw from when the exchange rate is favourable.

Have you ever tried to open a foreign currency account?

[a977]

20 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The ball is now in the Immigration Bureaus hand now. They are the ones that are going to have change the rules.

I can prove every cent or sating shown on the income affidavits I have done.

A bank book showing all of it coming in plus the letter I will get in December stating how much I will be getting next year and a statement in January for this years income.

Have been thinking along the same lines Ubonjoe, as I have some 4 million baht tied up in my house and I can show my financial tax returns as well as proof of income, one should be able to get "an above board lawyer" to counter sign a Stat. Dec.  If push comes to shove I can sell house but why should someone have to go to such extremes to satisfy a petty rule

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, a977 said:

Have been thinking along the same lines Ubonjoe, as I have some 4 million baht tied up in my house and I can show my financial tax returns as well as proof of income, one should be able to get "an above board lawyer" to counter sign a Stat. Dec.  If push comes to shove I can sell house but why should someone have to go to such extremes to satisfy a petty rule

With that much equity why not get a small loan?

[a977]

1 minute ago, marcusarelus said:

With that much equity why not get a small loan?

Something to do with the fact I'm over 65 not a Thai citizen are 2 reason I can think of. Yes I could borrow privately but why should I at 68 have to do that when I've worked all my life to enjoy retirement debt free.

[Joe Mcseismic]

10 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

I think some people will find themselves on the wrong side of these requirments  simply because they used their retirement bulk money to BUY a condo to reduce their overheads. Now they face being sent home with the loss of their assets or sold at a reduced price.

 

It will be a buyers market - NOT a sellers

Since when has it been any different?

[malt25]

21 hours ago, certacito said:

How long until the Australian embassy's news flash ?

This week I emailed the Australian embassy & inquired about the continuation of witnessed Statutory Declarations re income. Their response was they have NO intention of ceasing the Statutory Declaration witnessing. But they made no comment if the Thai immigration office will accept said declaration as verification of income.

I feel it's still a "wait & see" exactly what the IO consider is verification. I "think"-"hope", statements from my Thai bank showing monthly income will suffice.

Interesting times ahead.

[HAKAPALITA]

Let the Thais sort it out. If your legit today , you will be tomorrow. No need for panic.

[HHTel]

57 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Have you ever tried to open a foreign currency account?

Yes.  I have one.

[moe666]

19 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

And as has been true for most immigrations "crackdowns,"  because a relatively small number of foreigners abuse the system, everyone  ends up dealing with more onerous hurdles to leap over.

That goes back to the old line if it doesn't hurt you why do you care what he or she is a liar. Guess what it will be hurting a few now. I could care less I have the money and I have the proof.

 

It is always the small number who screw it up for the big number

[David Walden]

15 hours ago, Sheryl said:

FBAR is seriously easy. I do it online within 10 minutes.

 

Transferwise might be an alternative to ACH for banks that don't have it.

If you have the required Bt 800,000 in your currency in a  US bank or a bit more you can apply and receive a Multi entry "O" retirement visa in your own country and not have any money in any bank account in Thailand ( as I do).  A few hoops to go through costs Aus $275 = UD$ or whatever currency.  You need a bit of paper work,  A police report, a medical certificate it takes about 10 days.  It's the same in in most western countries.  That's how I get my Retirement Visa.  The Thai web site shows you how to go about it and is very good.  In Aus you do it through the Thai Embassy.  When you get to Thailand you just waltz through with everything in order.  The visa you get is multi entry only for the 1st year.  If you leave and return before the 1st year expires and you can do that as many times as you want you will get an extension to stay for another year each time you enter.  So Multi entry "O" is good for one day short of 2 years from you 1st arrival.  If you leave after the 1st year the visa will lapse you cannot get an extension on top of an extension (TIT).  The extension bit is not available after the 1 st year.  You must get the extension before the 1st year concludes.  One day is enough.  If you visa is dated till a certain date it will lapse the day before.  TIT 

[p414]

I am English and 74 years old.I have used my pension details [truthful] to apply for my yearly visa extension.

I do not want to put 800.000 baht into a thai bank in case I need to return hurriedly to England due to ill health as it would be almost impossible to have this money returned to England.

[Mad mick]

21 hours ago, certacito said:

How long until the Australian embassy's news flash ?

the Australian age retirement pension does not cover the amount "Thailand want for your visa in Thailand , if you are on old age single pension = $1600 to $1800 Australian dollar per month at present lucky to get get 40,000 baht not enough to live on in Aussie let alone Thailand,  Aussie $ like having monopoly money " almost worthless up and down like a yo yo

only way to top up up your old age pension  ? your need personal super fund income top up your Australian old age pension to cover what Thailand government want for you gain retirement visa, go to Vietnam or Cambodia or Philippines many expats have moved out Go Vietnam they welcome you to come stay ! visas hassle free, you can now buy house or apartment in your name or a business without being married to a local, same in Cambodia. i have moved myself out of Thailand no good staying if you are not welcomed Thai laws change like the wind , many expats have moved for a better life style cost of living food, beer etc, if you like to go out have a beer local bar you pay same price as local viet pay , viets love a beer chat all walks of life mix in many go out after work including local office workers bank, gov employees etc local lady's like a beer, chat myself i love Hanoi or Da nang rent apartment is cheap if you like beach areas plenty of places to rent and live, $1 for a beer on the beach and lot of bars/restaurant cafes night markets same price for all ???? 

Edited October 27, 2018 by Mad mick
errors

[watgate]

Since I have never put 800k in a thai bank I was wondering what exactly one has to do with complying with the FACTA/FBAR reporting when doing one's income taxes at year end? Since I go back to the US for a couple of months each year do I need to get something from the bank where my 800k will be on deposit in order to be able to complete the FACTA/FBAR requirement? I don't want to go back to the US and not be able to complete the FACTA/FBAR requirement since I don't have the necessary info or documentation to complete it.

[Joe Mcseismic]

1 hour ago, a977 said:

Something to do with the fact I'm over 65 not a Thai citizen are 2 reason I can think of. Yes I could borrow privately but why should I at 68 have to do that when I've worked all my life to enjoy retirement debt free.

But the land that the house stands on (and probably the house) are in a Thai's name. They can get the loan for you.

[GinBoy2]

1 hour ago, ryane66 said:

I read a report from Thailand Immigration recently. Number 1 retirees was Canada, number 2 was Dutch. Don't remember 3 or 4 but wasn't UK or USA.

I know where this fiction is coming from, it’s being promulgated by one of our most ‘illustrious’ TVF members.

 

These are the real numbers, which I posted before to refute his nonsense;

 

[camble]

17 minutes ago, watgate said:

Since I have never put 800k in a thai bank I was wondering what exactly one has to do with complying with the FACTA/FBAR reporting when doing one's income taxes at year end? Since I go back to the US for a couple of months each year do I need to get something from the bank where my 800k will be on deposit in order to be able to complete the FACTA/FBAR requirement? I don't want to go back to the US and not be able to complete the FACTA/FBAR requirement since I don't have the necessary info or documentation to complete it.

You can fill out the form online

https://bsaefiling.fincen.treas.gov/NoRegFBARFiler.html

Edited October 27, 2018 by camble

[LomSak27]

1 hour ago, HHTel said:

One option to avoid holding a lump sum in Thai baht is to keep in a Foreign Currency account.  That way your cash will be in US dollars or GBP which you can draw from when the exchange rate is favourable.

Someone mentioned this before. Do all Thai banks do this? or only a few ? And where would look to get rules and regulations regarding said account?  Any information would be useful, thanks in advance. Just point me in the direction.

Edited October 27, 2018 by LomSak27

[watgate]

Once I deposit 800K in a thai bank I was wondering what would be the best way to close out the acct and withdraw my funds if at some point in the future I get to the point where I have had enough of the land of smiles. Since the funds would be in thai baht I would want to most likely convert it back to usd. I guess I could take the thai baht to a currency exchange place and exchange the thai baht for usd. I would then have to get the necessary form to bring the usd back into the US since it would be more then the 10k limit for bringing usd currency into the US. 

 

     For all you astute financial wizards would I be better served to transfer or wire the funds back to my US  financial institution if I decided to close out my acct in Thailand? How cost effective would that scenario be since I am sure I would have to pay the associated bank fees to change the thai baht back to usd before wiring the funds back to the US plus whatever bank fees would be charged for wiring the funds back to the US. 

 

    Does anyone know what would be the most cost effective way to transfer or bring my funds back to the US if I decide to go that route.  Thanks for any info or advice.

[Thaidream]

2 hours ago, blackhorse said:

The Australian Embassy does not issue income letters. Our notarial services include the witnessing of Australian statutory declarations for Australian citizens, or for use in Australia. This process remains unchanged.”

Actually I believe that the Aussies have the right point of view- they will continue the letters and it is up to Thai Imm whether to accept them.

Had the UK and Us Embassies done the same thing- there would be no issue as long as they clearly stated on their letters that  they are NOT verifying income and changed the letter to an affidavit., I have every reason to believe that Thai Imm would have accepted them without issue except asking individuals to prove their statement from time to time.

 

IMO bothj the UK and US Embassies have over-reacted- now this will force Thai Imm to re-evaluate their system- and what evidence they will need to prove the income method. They will undoubtedly come to the same conclusion  the Embassies have that there is no way to prove income at source due to Data protection and Privacy laws- some of which Thailand is adopting.

 

The way forward is going to be somewhat hit and miss= with various reports coming in from scattered Imm offices on what they will accept and what they will not. It has always been this way .  The Imm offices that generally follow the same 'rules have been  Chiang Mai; Bangkok; Jomtien/Pattaya; Udon .  Others have a history of wanting 'added' steps.

 

My basic theory is that if one has the income and/or the money- there will be a simple way forward-  for others that don't or can't prove it- agents are a possibility.

 

 

[RichardColeman]

19 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

 

 

These are the real numbers, which I posted before to refute his nonsense;

 

So I wonder, does all the income - low or high - coming from a few hundred thousand westerners out shine the money coming into the country from the other nations put together ? Thailand should be looking out to encouage anyone to live here that can bring into the coutry more money than their own (non nepotism) people can earn, no matter how little that may be. I;d rather have  a hundred thousand foreigners on less than 40k bringing money into the country and growing it, than not having them here and business's going under.Those Myanmar, cambodians and Loas I would guess do not support the economy in spending power as much as the few hundred thousand westerners

[watgate]

  

  2 hours ago, HHTel said:

One option to avoid holding a lump sum in Thai baht is to keep in a Foreign Currency account.  That way your cash will be in US dollars or GBP which you can draw from when the exchange rate is favourable

 

     A previous poster said that if you deposit funds in a thai bank that are not thai baht they will not be protected by Thailand's version of FDIC insurance for bank deposits, If true then depositing funds in another currency in a thai bank would be very risky.

Edited October 27, 2018 by watgate

[Pib]

23 minutes ago, watgate said:

Since I have never put 800k in a thai bank I was wondering what exactly one has to do with complying with the FACTA/FBAR reporting when doing one's income taxes at year end? Since I go back to the US for a couple of months each year do I need to get something from the bank where my 800k will be on deposit in order to be able to complete the FACTA/FBAR requirement? I don't want to go back to the US and not be able to complete the FACTA/FBAR requirement since I don't have the necessary info or documentation to complete it.

Completing and filing an FBAR is easy & quick.  Basicaly the only banking info you need is your bank's address, your account number and the "highest amount in the account during the year."    You know the highest amount from simply looking at your ibanking or passbook--assuming you update your passbook when  you do deposits.  

 

Some weblinks below that give plenty of info to include the website where you file the FBAR.

 

Select the "File an Individual FBAR" sublink.  Select the PDF file option....fill out at your leisure offline....just click the link embedded in the PDF doc to file the FBAR.  Must be file NLT 15 Oct....example for tax year 2017 the FBAR must be file NLT 15 Oct 18.  You get email confirmation of filing & acceptance.  Easy.

https://bsaefiling.fincen.treas.gov/main.html

 

Just some more info

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/report-of-foreign-bank-and-financial-accounts-fbar

 

 

[LomSak27]

Just now, RichardColeman said:

So I wonder, does all the income - low or high - coming from a few hundred thousand westerners out shine the money coming into the country from the other nations put together ?

Your wondering about how much money Myanmar Laos and Cambodian nationals, who make up 70% of the total, put into the Thai economy vs westerners who make up a pittance of the total? 

I'm wondering if our defensive line is going to continue its outstanding sack number in the 2nd half of the season.     ????

[Phil90]

22 hours ago, certacito said:

 

It has nothing to do with bringing capital in and why is it a "scummy move" for Thai Immigration to say that the income needs verifying? Or are you saying that the US embassy are being scummy because you want them to perform a job/duty that they are totally incapable of doing?

It's a super scummy move because as a previous poster stated, a lot of elderly people won't make the proper arrangements to ensure that the money is returned to their heirs when they die.  It's also way more money than anybody actually needs to live very comfortably in Thailand.  The average annual Thai household income is only a little over $3,000.  Why should an single retired person need 7 times more income just to prove they can "support themselves" than an average "Thai household".  Of course it's a scummy scam like many things in Thailand. Even if you expect a much higher standard of living you can easily get by comfortably, even as a couple on 1/2 - 2/3 of that income requirement.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Phil90

[sqwakvfr]

I do have an account with no monthly fees but I the international fees are something I cannot avoid.  Been with this bank for just about everything for 32 years and pretty much it’s “Death Do Us Part”.  Also, I would have to go back to the US(which probably will be one way journey sooner or later) to switch banks. 

[gaviny]

Once I deposit 800K in a thai bank I was wondering what would be the best way to close out the acct and withdraw my funds if at some point in the future I get to the point where I have had enough of the land of smiles. Since the funds would be in thai baht I would want to most likely convert it back to usd. I guess I could take the thai baht to a currency exchange place and exchange the thai baht for usd. I would then have to get the necessary form to bring the usd back into the US since it would be more then the 10k limit for bringing usd currency into the US. 
 
     For all you astute financial wizards would I be better served to transfer or wire the funds back to my US  financial institution if I decided to close out my acct in Thailand? How cost effective would that scenario be since I am sure I would have to pay the associated bank fees to change the thai baht back to usd before wiring the funds back to the US plus whatever bank fees would be charged for wiring the funds back to the US. 
 
    Does anyone know what would be the most cost effective way to transfer or bring my funds back to the US if I decide to go that route.  Thanks for any info or advice.

So after receiving your visa , why not use it for your living expenses in Thailand instead of bringing extra for your expense ?

Sent from my Redmi Note 6 Pro using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[user7969876]

12 hours ago, Pib said:

The Bt800K I keep as big money in case I need it "immediately, right now, today, an emergency, etc" and for retirement extension of stay purposes.  Got tired of the embassy letter process and associated $50 a year to get it.   The money earns 1.3% right now (use to be around 2.3% until interest rates started going down) in a Krungsri Mee Tai Dai saving accounts which comes with a debit card and ibanking....can withdraw any amount of funds at any time without any interest penalties.  This current 1.3% is more than U.S. checking accounts pay, but yes, some money and savings accounts pay a little more.  And it's more than the typical 0.5% or less for a regular Thai savings account.  Plus, I don't have a fear of having the money in Thailand.

 

 

 

Hi Pib

This is an elegant solution, a few questions if I may.

Do you get a bank book?

The required bank letter, is it required on the same day as the application to Immigration?

What does it say?

Do you have the bank book updated at the same time, assuming you have one?

If no bank book what do you provide as evidence of the deposit sum and period?

Regards

Brian

 

12 hours ago, Pib said:

  

 

 

[RichardColeman]

6 minutes ago, LomSak27 said:

Your wondering about how much money Myanmar Laos and Cambodian nationals, who make up 70% of the total, put into the Thai economy vs westerners who make up a pittance of the total? 

I'm wondering if our defensive line is going to continue its outstanding sack number in the 2nd half of the season.     ????

Those people from myanmar I doubt contribute as much to the economy as the westerners in 'spending power'. They no doubt earn, and spend little. My point was if you keep low earners (yes I know they work) and start deporting people bringing into the country 3 times as much, your not really doing your sums

[marcusarelus]

41 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

I know where this fiction is coming from, it’s being promulgated by one of our most ‘illustrious’ TVF members.

 

These are the real numbers, which I posted before to refute his nonsense;

 

What year?  Of course you wouldn't post that would you?

[GinBoy2]

12 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

So I wonder, does all the income - low or high - coming from a few hundred thousand westerners out shine the money coming into the country from the other nations put together ? Thailand should be looking out to encouage anyone to live here that can bring into the coutry more money than their own (non nepotism) people can earn, no matter how little that may be. I;d rather have  a hundred thousand foreigners on less than 40k bringing money into the country and growing it, than not having them here and business's going under.Those Myanmar, cambodians and Loas I would guess do not support the economy in spending power as much as the few hundred thousand westerners

Well, thats one of those questions you can pose, and answer in one sentence!

 

For whatever reason the economic input from western retirees seems to be being eclipsed by some rather darker forces.

 

A Burmese laborer working in some Hell Hole seems to be more valuable than a non intrusive retiree, living in the back of beyond