Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, HHTel said:

One of the reasons I don't want to put 800K in a Thai bank at almost zero interest.  All my current pension investments have produced a lot more than that.  One stock gave 19% growth and I'm not talking risk investment.

How much would it cost you for 3 months? 

[robblok]

8 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Absolutely. IF you have the money to spare.

 

Many people don't though they do have the income to cover it.

 

And for those who don't of cannot come up with a lump sum?

 

What are they supposed to do?

 

Leave their Thai families behind and go back to their own country on their own?

Nobody said it was fair, i agree. 

 

Again the good have to suffer because of the bad.

 

But if embassies really wanted it they could get some kind of paper from the tax office to show your income. (does mean you would have to file tax back home). The embassy could get your permission for a check.

 

I mean this system could be setup if they really wanted to help their citizen but i doubt they will. 

 

Anyway can't blame Thailand for closing loopholes. You have to blame the embassies for not finding a way around the problems.

 

Back where I come from you can ask an income declaration by the tax office, that is hard to forge if the embassy were to check that then it would be a valid way to check things. 

 

Only disadvantage is that it would force you to file taxes (often not needed as its already taxes and filing will result in 0 to pay or get back)

[chrisinth]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

That would be easy to fake (see my earlier post). 

But, if TI allows this - the good news is, many who don't qualify, but were unwilling to lie on a Stat Doc (a felony-charge), will now be able to retire in Thailand by sending some money in circles. 

I just got a 6 month bank statement from the BKK bank yesterday (for something different than this issue), but the statement was detailed so much that providing this as proof of transfer of funds should be enough for any immigration official. Little chance of falsifying that.

 

But, as I mentioned in an earlier post, which way will immigration go as the affidavit is no longer available from June next year, or 6 months from Dec 31st, whichever comes first?

[Vacuum]

4 minutes ago, Genericnic said:

Could be that some of us see Thailand as a moderately unstable 3rd world country that we might have to bail out of on short notice.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

It'll take 1 minute to withdraw your funds and get out of the country, what's the problem, please?

[Lacessit]

I transfer about 700,000 baht every year in June to cover living expenses. I don't spend all of it. After I get my extension in November, I can spend down from the 800,000 baht, and it will become a matter of getting the timing right in terms of the transfer and the BS seasoning process.

I did use the Australian stat dec system last year. However, when a consulate official charged me 1800 baht for the stat dec ( a stamp plus signature, really hard work ) compared to 300 baht for a bank letter and statement, it was time to call BS on that as well.

[eggers]

2 hours ago, certacito said:

How long until the Australian embassy's news flash ?

Contacted AUS embassy early this week & advised there are no planned changes to provision of Notary services, including witnessing of Stat Decs.. Stand to be corrected, but, both UK & US embassies, were verifying citizen's income, whereas AUS embassy only witnessing signing of Stat Dec; verifying signatory, NOT actual content....  

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, garyk said:

I don't understand what that has to do with anything?

The difference between money in a Thai bank or American bank for 3 months is a few hundred dollars.  What I spend for a night out in Bangkok.  Chicken feed.  You are making a big deal about nothing. 

[Suradit69]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

would basically only have the big money in a Thai bank option which I'm sure will be hard for some.

Especially during the current stock market swoon in the US. Liquidating stocks that have recently dropped 10% or more is not something I want to do right now. Maybe if you-know-who works out something with the Chinese next year will see better stock prices.

[David Walden]

2 hours ago, certacito said:

How long until the Australian embassy's news flash ?

You could apply for your Retirement visa in Australia at the Thai Embassy in Canberra as I do or your home country for most expats.  You need proof that you have the required funds ( real proof no BS at the Thai Embassy), a police report, a doctors certificate and the usual application forms and passport pics and $275.00 and you arrive in Thailand with everything in order, walk straight through and to boot you get a multi entry "O" visa so that with a quick trip across the boarder just before the 1st year ends you get a 1 year extension free, it is good for 2 days short of 2 years. (Nong Khai, you walk over and back). You can come and go from Thailand as many times as you like in the 1st year.  It's really suppose to be the same applying for one in Thailand, but well TIT you know???  

 

   PS it's really only bad for those that do not have the Bt800.000.  In Aus you need at least Bt30,000,000 even just to apply.   Thailand cheap as chips.  The under cover retirement agents will be licking their lips over this.  My god how the money rolls in.

[dick dasterdly]

1 minute ago, IamNoone88 said:

While British, I have to ask what function the Embassies actually serve? They seem to do very little in my mind, having absconded for any real work to support their citizens overseas. Certainly, they can be counted on less and less for anything useful.

They exist to promote trade between the countries and 'spying' functions - as far as I can make out.

 

Many/most have no interest at all in their citizens in the country - as has been made even more clear recently....

[anterian]

This news does not bother me, I anticipated it many years ago and followed the 800k in the bank route, just a 200 Baht letter from the bank satisfies immigration. What does bother me is the news that many Thai banks are closing branches as electronic branches become common, my bank SCB is closing 200 branches in the near future. Unless immigration will accept an electronic printout, which at the moment they don't, it will become increasingly difficult to get a bank letter. 

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, Vacuum said:

It'll take 1 minute to withdraw your funds and get out of the country, what's the problem, please?

There's a limit to how much baht in cash you can take out. It's not a big amount.

[wgdanson]

6 minutes ago, garyk said:

I don't understand what that has to do with anything?

Marcus meant what is the difference between the interest you would get on USD 25,000 for 3 months in USA, and on Bht 800,000 in a Thai bank. Not much I would guess.

[Vacuum]

17 minutes ago, pgrahmm said:

Well I, for one, don't want to put aside $$$$ that have been making a good return on investment - last year that 24k ended up at 27.6k just sitting there.....

You're dead ended once you are forced to move & park that money in a Thai account....Moving it there is easy, moving it back & forth from a Thai bank across international boundaries to allow for earnings is not easy, or a good plan....

I've used the income affidavit & can verify every amount off my US bank statements as well as the monthly Thai withdrawls noted & itemized on the same bank statements in increments between 40-75k withdrawn at the Thai bank branch a couple of times each month......

Dead ending that money is, not what I feel, a good option.....

We are talking about 800K, I still can't see the problom

[RichardColeman]

2 hours ago, Thailand said:

Brits and now the yanks, probably 65% or so ,just a guess, of all the expats in Thailand, should be a lot of clout or a pending exodus.

I think you may be off in one respect, but i believe 100% that those Usa and UK nationals probably make up near 65% of all those expats supporting Thai families. Add the Germans, French and Australians and probaly 95% of the support. there may be well more foreign nationals living in thailand than 'westerners' but I seriously doubt they are supporting Thai families. I know many people that will have to leave now, they did not lie to get their embassy letters, but simply cannot send the amount required due to ouside reasons - like mortgage in home county. Price condos and apartmens and houses is just about to plummet - sell early !

 

I will be leaving next month - most due to my pathetic lodger deciding not to pay his rent anymore and I need go home evict him. Thereby losing my visa due to the time when it would need renewing an time to evict him. My wife will be safe - she's working and duaghter can go stay with gran. I am lucky though, I have 300,000 pounds  minimum equity in my house and a lump sum early pension due in June. I will be back o get my wife come uk. I fee so sorry for those that have made a life, support a family and are basically honest now about to lose potentially everything

 

 

 

 

 

[Wuvu2]

Lame timing on the part of the US Embassy. Had they made this statement in Septemeber, at least people would have had time to transfer and age the required 800,000 baht bank deposit. Now some of the people who must renew in January and February are screwed. 

[connda]

Has anyone ever seen Thai Immigration set the bar lower for Expats?  No.  They only set the bar higher.  I moved funds over years ago as you can see future changes happening from miles away.  Immigration treads to make things more complicated, not easier.
Best to get 'locked in' now with 800K THB in the bank.  If they revamp the rules for retirement in the near future, ya'll may find that the change mandates 1,500K THB in the bank unless you're previously 'grand-fathered' by having at least one extension of stay based on 800K in a Thai bank.
If you've never noticed, we're not wanted here unless you are a foreign woman married to a Thai man, then different rules apply.  Everyone else is persona-non-grata.  Honestly, if I hadn't have married a Thai, I'd be retired elsewhere right now.  The only reason I stay is because of my marriage and extended Thai family that I support - as if the Thai government could give a damn, because they don't. 
Best of luck for all you out there depending on the 65K THB/month method.  But think on the bright side - this may give you the motivation to seek retirement elsewhere on the planet in a country that is much more foreigner friendly than Prathet Thai.  To make that step, you need to get out of your comfort zone.  ¿Hablas español?  May be a good time to learn Spanish.  Heck of a lot easier than Thai.   

[ianf]

23 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

I'm actually surprised that they even let people use the "Income" letters in the first place.

 

After all, I have to keep my "800k" in a Thai bank account for at least 3 months prior to my Extension and Thailand expects that is the money I will need to live on for the next year.

Meanwhile, people using Income letters don't have to show any money actually coming in to Thailand at all. For all they (Immigration) knows, all that pension money (if it even exists in the first place) is going to a bank in (whatever foreign country) and the people claiming to have that income are actually trying to get by on 50 baht a day. Or less.

 

And for every person on here that claims they are "uber rich" and spending far in excess of "65,000" per month, there are probably a dozen that get a tenth of that amount, or nothing at all (but still get an Income letter every year that claims otherwise).

Maybe that is why Thailand now wants to see a (Thai) bank book showing regular deposits of 65,000/month. To prove all you "uber rich" people actually have the amounts you've been claiming to for so many years.

 

Want to bet that most of them do not get anywhere near as much as they claim ?

How appalling. For those of us with GENUINE pension letters and statements...which is most of us... we are the ones getting damaged by this and yeah! I dont transfer everything to Thailand each month. a) because I visit UK and need some money there and (b) because it is easier to do in a lump and (c) because my wife earns she contributes to household expenses and I dont need 65000 here each month. Its appalling that you assume everyone except yourself is a cheat.

[Sheryl]

Everyone should agree with that. I do the same. People that park 800K in a Thai bank when they did not have too didn't have the monthly income IMO.

You should not be"parking" 800k and indeed if that is what you do there will be questions asked by Immigration as to what you are living on. Draw down on the money for your living costs here in place of whatever else it was you were doing. If you live on less than 800k a year then the difference between 800 and whatever you actually spend is all that is parked.

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[Suradit69]

10 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

 

Would assume long enough to show it made up at least 800k a year ie. 12 months, or ppl would not bother going the deposit route if they just needed 195k of transfers over three months


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

Yes, but that only establishes what you did during the past year. No proof you'd be able to manage it during the life of a new extension.

 

And for someone who stays in Thailand for 9 months of the year, would he need to shift Baht 65000 a month in during the months he was out of the country?

 

Showing (genuine) social security and pension payments suggests your income will be there for the next year as well. 

[Genericnic]

While British, I have to ask what function the Embassies actually serve? They seem to do very little in my mind, having absconded for any real work to support their citizens overseas. Certainly, they can be counted on less and less for anything useful.

They serve the same function as tits on a boar hog.

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[pgrahmm]

12 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

How much would you lose putting 25 grand in a Thai bank as opposed to a US bank? Why do you think you can't move it back to the USA?  I've had no problems.

That money is making me $3,500+ a year.....Why would I want to lose that by parking it here....? 

Why would I want $10,000+ ($25k) bouncing back & forth? Racking up tracking/reporting in this day & age....

[Vacuum]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

There's a limit to how much baht in cash you can take out. It's not a big amount.

You just have to declare it.

 

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, Vacuum said:

We are talking about 800K, I still can't see the problom

It's a problem for those at the borderline, and at the mercy of currency fluctuations.

[marcusarelus]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

There's a limit to how much baht in cash you can take out. It's not a big amount.

I wired transferred 3 million in how much can I wire transfer out? 

[garyk]

5 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

How much would it cost you for 3 months? 

I was not going to answer this because it was so silly.

But, 25K at 5% / yr would give you 104.16 dollars a month. Which is doable easily. I do it now and have been for years.

Here is the catch to people that use there funds to make money. If you have to take the funds out and reinsert them you pay a charge. It would be a loosing proposition.

If you use the income letter you leave the money in and it draws you 104.16 / mo. 

Now what would you rather do? Use the income letter and have an extra 104.16 / mo. to blow or park It in a bank in Thailand. 

[Sheryl]

"local bank statement showing a monthly deposit of at least 65,000 Thai Baht."

 

System can still be scammed

I'm not USA but let's say you're pension is 50 k you take out 50 k and send 15k back to the USA and redirect back to your thai account and there is your 65 k

 

You could do this, but you'll pay 2 transfer fees a month to do so. Weigh that against keeping say 200k (or whatever the difference is between 800k and your living costs) in an interest bearing Thai account.

 

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[marcusarelus]

Just now, garyk said:

I was not going to answer this because it was so silly.

But, 25K at 5% / yr would give you 104.16 dollars a month. Which is doable easily. I do it now and have been for years.

Here is the catch to people that use there funds to make money. If you have to take the funds out and reinsert them you pay a charge. It would be a loosing proposition.

If you use the income letter you leave the money in and it draws you 104.16 / mo. 

Now what would you rather do? Use the income letter and have an extra 104.16 / mo. to blow or park It in a bank in Thailand. 

Let me put it a different way.  If you can't afford to park 25 grand in an interest bearing account that can be removed at any time you don't have enough money to be an international traveler. 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, connda said:

Has anyone ever seen Thai Immigration set the bar lower for Expats?  No.  They only set the bar higher.  I moved funds over years ago as you can see future changes happening from miles away.  Immigration treads to make things more complicated, not easier.
Best to get 'locked in' now with 800K THB in the bank.  If they revamp the rules for retirement in the near future, ya'll may find that the change mandates 1,500K THB in the bank unless you're previously 'grand-fathered' by having at least one extension of stay based on 800K in a Thai bank.
If you've never noticed, we're not wanted here unless you are a foreign woman married to a Thai man, then different rules apply.  Everyone else is persona-non-grata.  Honestly, if I hadn't have married a Thai, I'd be retired elsewhere right now.  The only reason I stay is because of my marriage and extended Thai family that I support - as if the Thai government could give a damn, because they don't. 
Best of luck for all you out there depending on the 65K THB/month method.  But think on the bright side - this may give you the motivation to seek retirement elsewhere on the planet in a country that is much more foreigner friendly than Prathet Thai.  To make that step, you need to get out of your comfort zone.  ¿Hablas español?  May be a good time to learn Spanish.  Heck of a lot easier than Thai.   

Claro que si!

[Lacessit]

Just now, Vacuum said:

You just have to declare it.

 

Your trust in Thai officials is touching. Let's say you waltz up to the exit desk and declare 10 million baht. You think they are not going to be interested in finding an excuse to confiscate it?