Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

23 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

 

The Consular Section of the U.S. Consulate General in Chiang Mai invites U.S. citizens to attend a town hall meeting with Consul General Jennifer Harhigh and Country Consular Coordinator Timothy Scherer.  To participate, please be seated at 2:30 p.m. for introductory remarks and an update on consular services available to U.S. citizens.  Topics will include the previously announced change in policy regarding the income affidavit, which the U.S. Embassy Bangkok and U.S. Consulate General Chiang Mai will no longer provide beginning January 1, 2019.  The Consul General will also conduct a question-and-answer session.  100 seats will be available on a first-come first-served basis.

 

Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2018

Time: 2:30 p.m. to 3:30 p.m.

Venue: Faikham Room, Uniserv Chiang Mai University

Address: 239 Nimmanahaeminda Road, Tambon Su Thep, Amphoe Mueang Chiang Mai, Chang Wat Chiang Mai 50200, Thailand

Venue Phone: (66) 53 942 883

 

If you have any questions about this event please send your inquiry to [email protected]. 

 

For general information on U.S. Citizen Services please see http://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/

 

 

Perhaps this would be a good time for BKK area folks to ask the Embassy ACS:

 

1. In light of the CM area meeting, why can't there be a similar Embassy session held here for the BKK area residents?

 

2. If there can't/isn't going to be a BKK area session, can the Embassy at least make and distribute a full transcript and/or recording of the CM event, and share the links for that via the ACS email delivery network?

 

[Thaidream]

16 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Why are you so hung up on proving income vs. proving money sent to Thailand? The Thais are saying "show me the money," not "show me your income statements that show how much money comes monthly/annually into your offshore bank account." If you were a Thai, wouldn't you rather see money with a track record (e.g., transferred in for a certain period) vs. seeing some official (looking) paperwork?

Rhetorical question, for most

I/m not hung up on it at all- but the income method in which the Embassies  were to 'verify' income  was established  as a way to prove/verify/certify- that one had an income stream of 65K per month.  Instead , apparently what Thai Imm really wants is to show money- One can show money  but it proves nothing except one has money for that year.  And why would it matter where the  money comes from?  It has never mattered before. How many  70 year old retirees in Thailand are  making money in Thailand by working-  virtually none -  My main objection that instead of using my US account to get my money via the ATM system- I now will have to call my bank every month- authorize a transfer- wait for the money to show in my account- update the account- then take it out of my Thai account. It's the same income stream guaranteed for life that I can access immediately right now.  

[Rimmer]

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[OJAS]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

It's going to be very interesting to see whether Thai Immigration basically just stops accepting Embassy income letters, period, as there's been some suggestion they will. Or if we end up with a double standard situation where TI has basically forced certain Embassies out of the letters business, but then allows other Embassies doing basically the same exact thing to continue issuing accepted income letters.

As far as the embassies who are planning to continue providing income confirmation services (as far as we are aware) are concerned, I think that the acid test has to be whether or not the IB have given the green light to verification procedures which they have adopted (or are planning to introduce). If any embassy were to pass this test this could well result in a dual-standard situation arising, as you say.

 

Indeed, if a whole raft of embassies were to pass this test, this could undermine, in the IB's eyes, any case for "special" treatment as regards proving monthly income requirements for us Americans, Aussies and Brits, as I have already stated.

 

I also think that it is essential for those who intend in future to apply for income confirmations from any of the embassies still offering this service to check explicitly with their embassy beforehand that they have introduced verification procedures which have been "blessed" by the IB. Otherwise they would appear to run the risk of being issued with a piece of paper which could well turn out to be worthless in practice!

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

  And why would it matter where the  money comes from?  It has never mattered before.

Actually, it has mattered before, as the late great US income statement said income "from US sources." But the new post income letter guidance from the embassies, such as it is, said, "You should now show that you have the income required by the Thai authorities by transferring the minimum funds needed into a Thai bank account." Says nothing about having to come from outside Thailand. So where did the rumor come from about money into a Thai bank account needing to come from overseas? Maybe the now defunct "from US sources" income letter has shaped the rumor. Certainly we haven't heard anything yet from Immigration, so maybe they won't care where it's from. Let's hope so.

[4myr]

4 hours ago, OJAS said:

But does checking "your income related documents as provided by authorised sources like banks, employer or pension provider and tax department in NL" actually mean that the Dutch Embassy are themselves verifying the amounts stated in submitted income-related documents with the relevant authorised sources?

 

If "yes" it could mean that one embassy at least is able to comply with the IB's verification requirements - in which case any attempts on the part of the American, Australian and British embassies to agree with the IB any alternative method of verifying monthly income for their nationals based on transfers into Thai bank accounts could be undermined.

 

But if "no", though, it would appear that we are, in the case of the the Dutch Embassy, talking about an income confirmation method which is basically akin to the one adopted by their British counterparts which they have claimed does not satisfy IB verification requirements.

 

As long as TI has not talked with the Dutch embassy regarding "income verification", the Dutch embassy system still conforms to the TI policy with regards to visa extension based on retirement, see https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22 criteria "(3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month; "  

 

I would like to see a publication of the updated policy of TI regarding "income verification" by a third party/embassy, replacing the more general phrase "evidence of having income". Anyhow, finally it depends on the specific IO how you should provide the evidence.

[balo]

Dave, I have been traveling to Mexico and Colombia the last couple of years, and I really like it better than Thailand.
 
I hate talking about money, but if you have the funds Mexico is a wonderful place.
 
The countries are huge, and you are free to travel at will. I love that. 
The visa's are so expat friendly, a huge plus for me as i get older.
Medical care is first class.
 
Of course only my personal opinion, everyone is different.
 
Regards
 
 

As a European I don't know much about Colombia, but I do know the women there are beautiful. How would you rate Colombia when it comes to safety ? As a foreigner will you be an easy target ? Can you get a 1 year visa there without any hassles ? Thanks.

[mogandave]

The way I see it if you can pay your rent support yourself and are not living in the street....You just passed income verification with flying colors...

You should tell them.

I imagine there are guys that are able to support themselves fine until the wheels fall off and they can’t.

[marcusarelus]

8 minutes ago, balo said:

7 hours ago, garyk said:

Dave, I have been traveling to Mexico and Colombia the last couple of years, and I really like it better than Thailand.
 
I hate talking about money, but if you have the funds Mexico is a wonderful place.
 
The countries are huge, and you are free to travel at will. I love that. 
The visa's are so expat friendly, a huge plus for me as i get older.
Medical care is first class.
 
Of course only my personal opinion, everyone is different.
 
Regards
 
 

As a European I don't know much about Colombia, but I do know the women there are beautiful. How would you rate Colombia when it comes to safety ? As a foreigner will you be an easy target ? Can you get a 1 year visa there without any hassles ? Thanks.

In 2018, Colombia is going through a period of political and social transition. At the same time, it has a historic opportunity to rescue the voice of more than 8 million victims of the armed conflict.

 

https://www.icrc.org/en/document/our-call-action-colombia

[steve73]

16 minutes ago, balo said:

7 hours ago, garyk said:

Dave, I have been traveling to Mexico and Colombia the last couple of years, and I really like it better than Thailand.
 
I hate talking about money, but if you have the funds Mexico is a wonderful place.
 
The countries are huge, and you are free to travel at will. I love that. 
The visa's are so expat friendly, a huge plus for me as i get older.
Medical care is first class.
 
Of course only my personal opinion, everyone is different.
 
Regards
 
 

As a European I don't know much about Colombia, but I do know the women there are beautiful. How would you rate Colombia when it comes to safety ? As a foreigner will you be an easy target ? Can you get a 1 year visa there without any hassles ? Thanks.

Friend of mine worked there for a couple of years - said he preferred it to HCMC (where I'd met and worked with him). 

I'd imagine it's a lot better than Venezuela at the moment, although I understand many of the Venezuelans are currently escaping into Colombia.

[garyk]

36 minutes ago, balo said:

7 hours ago, garyk said:

Dave, I have been traveling to Mexico and Colombia the last couple of years, and I really like it better than Thailand.
 
I hate talking about money, but if you have the funds Mexico is a wonderful place.
 
The countries are huge, and you are free to travel at will. I love that. 
The visa's are so expat friendly, a huge plus for me as i get older.
Medical care is first class.
 
Of course only my personal opinion, everyone is different.
 
Regards
 
 

As a European I don't know much about Colombia, but I do know the women there are beautiful. How would you rate Colombia when it comes to safety ? As a foreigner will you be an easy target ? Can you get a 1 year visa there without any hassles ? Thanks.

I got a 3 month visa on arrival, which can be extended another 3 months with out any problems. What I have read about the retirement visa it is extremely easy.

The women, haha. I enjoyed myself. I will leave it at that.

You are a target for sure, just don't be conspicuous and blend in if possible. I never had any problems. I flew from Bogota to Cali then took the bus threw the coffee region. Cheap as chips after you get out of Bogota and Cali. Some of the small towns in the mountains are absolutely beautiful.

 

Since I am from Texas I have been traveling into Mexico for years. So, I am used to it some what. I try to stay under the radar when possible. Colombia is about the same, but more dangerous as far as getting robbed IMO. Depends on where you are also. 

 

If you have a chance I say go for it. 

 

Forgot to mention Colombia has a European influence, I met several folks from Europe there. Actually all the people I met there that were traveling around the country were Europeans.

 

 

[Joe Mcseismic]

4 hours ago, fforest1 said:

The way I see it if you can pay your rent support yourself and are not living in the street....You just passed income verification with flying colors...

Nope. Not enough. They want to see you spend a minimum of 65k a month. How you see it is irrelevant.

[malt25]

2 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Nope. Not enough. They want to see you spend a minimum of 65k a month. How you see it is irrelevant.

Where do you get the idea they "want to see you spend 65,000 month"  As I see it, it's being deposited in a Thai bank account. But hey, I could be wrong. It did happen once.

[Joe Mcseismic]

24 minutes ago, malt25 said:

Where do you get the idea they "want to see you spend 65,000 month"  As I see it, it's being deposited in a Thai bank account. But hey, I could be wrong. It did happen once.

Really? You can't figure that out on your own?

[mogandave]

Really? You can't figure that out on your own?

Yes, if they assume you spend every Baht you get your fingers on they want to see you spend 40k a month.

So why do they let you put 400K in the bank and not spend on Baht of it?

They do not want people here that are broke.

[Joe Mcseismic]

4 minutes ago, mogandave said:

They do not want people here that are broke.

 

Give this man a cigar!!!

[Langsuan Man]

7 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I was chatting with member SpokaneAl the other day, and he indicated he's been doing mailed visa submissions to the L.A. Consulate for a long time, and said they've been handled efficiently. I believe he indicated he was getting about a two week turnaround time from mailing the application in the U.S. to getting his package back by mail from the Los Angeles Consulate.  Of course, it's much faster if you do a walk-in application, but not so easy if you don't live/aren't staying in the L.A. area.

 

Just my recent experience with LA, YMMV,  After 4 O-A's out of NY with a turnaround of 4 or 5 Days, and two out of DC in the same amount of time,  9 business days before LA even started processing my application was a real shock. Especially when I followed up  with an email on the day he signed for Express Mail   

 

The member you refer to also does not try and obtain two years out of an O-A, due to the lengthy processing time out of LA, so one of the major benefits is now lost, at least for me, since I am now forced to use LA 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just now, Langsuan Man said:

The member you refer to also does not try and obtain two years out of an O-A, due to the lengthy processing time out of LA, so one of the major benefits is now lost, at least for me for me, since I am now forced to use LA 

 

LSM, I'm not following you there... Al indicated that yes, he's basically applying for a new O-A every year via the Los Angeles Consulate. But I was under the impression that was strictly due to his travel habits, not because of any problem or delay with how the L.A. Consulate has been processing the applications.

 

[fforest1]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

 

They do not want people here that are broke.
 

 

I guess the Chinese will not be coming to Thailand any more then....And the zero dollar tours will go out of business..

[Goldbear]

I got an income affidavit letter in Chiang Mai yesterday. I don't live in Chiang Mai, I was just passing through. The guy in line in front of me was also getting an affidavit letter. He put $4000 on his affidavit. The Thai lady behind the window told him that he should be precise with his dollar amount because Immigration will want to have supporting documents that confirm the amount. She said that if the amounts were different that they wouldn't accept it. At the next window, the American woman who was doing the actual notary told him the same thing. He seemed unsure but elected not to change it. "It varies," he said. 

 

The comments by the women surprised me as I thought that if one had the affidavit letter that it was accepted without any further documentations. I thought I would pass the observation along to you all, for what it's worth.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Goldbear said:

I got an income affidavit letter in Chiang Mai yesterday. I don't live in Chiang Mai, I was just passing through. The guy in line in front of me was also getting an affidavit letter. He put $4000 on his affidavit. The Thai lady behind the window told him that he should be precise with his dollar amount because Immigration will want to have supporting documents that confirm the amount. She said that if the amounts were different that they wouldn't accept it. At the next window, the American woman who was doing the actual notary told him the same thing. He seemed unsure but elected not to change it. "It varies," he said. 

 

The comments by the women surprised me as I thought that if one had the affidavit letter that it was accepted without any further documentations. I thought I would pass the observation along to you all, for what it's worth.

 

CM Immigration lately has begun asking for backup documentation in more cases, even when the applicant is presenting an Embassy income letter.

 

[malt25]

4 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Really? You can't figure that out on your own?

Yep, I did. all by my little self.

[Joe Mcseismic]

6 hours ago, fforest1 said:

I guess the Chinese will not be coming to Thailand any more then....And the zero dollar tours will go out of business..

Not the same now, is it?

Comparing tourists and long term stayers is a bit disingenuous.

[Maestro]

On 11/8/2018 at 6:53 AM, luckyluke said:

Apparently this is what happened with the Dutch embassy. 

They issued an Affidavit before. They now issue a L.o.I..

Other embassies and consulates are also issuing such a letter. 

I that what it says on their embassy letters: L.o.I. ?

[CARLO BALDASSARRE]

GOOD ADVISE ......https://youtu.be/163iT6X7iTg

 HOPE IT HELPS........

[JLCrab]

And here is some advice courtesy the Embassy of Australia - Bangkok --

 

What do I need for my Thai Visa Application?

 

[luckyluke]

1 hour ago, Maestro said:

I that what it says on their embassy letters: L.o.I. ?

No, I use L.O.I. to indicate  it is not an Affidavit anymore. One sign/write nothing now, the Embassy establish and sign the document. There are copies of the new document on this forum.

Same I receive from the Austrian consulate in Pattaya, but they never issued an Affidavit there. 

Always a "Letter of Income" established and signed by the Honorary Consul or the Vice-Consul after "checking" the documents I present :

Copy of 1  year pension established by the Belgian Office of Pensions (thus 12 months). 

Copy of year bankstatement showing that the monthly amounts paid by the office appears on my Belgian bankbook. 

Usually the Vice-Consul check 1 or 2 months payments with reference number by the office, with the amounts + reference number on my bankbook. 

It seems that they take the risk that my documents may not be genuine. 

 

[Langsuan Man]

16 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

LSM, I'm not following you there... Al indicated that yes, he's basically applying for a new O-A every year via the Los Angeles Consulate. But I was under the impression that was strictly due to his travel habits, not because of any problem or delay with how the L.A. Consulate has been processing the applications.

 

As explained to me, the processing time is what is driving his travel habits, it's not worth the trouble to try and get the two years out of the O-A,  since in his case, two are traveling but only one needs a Visa

 

The timing of the O-A Visa issue date impacts one's travel dates.  In order to get two years out of the $200 O-A Visa you must return one day before it expires and it's expiration date is 364 days from issue date.  So the earlier the issue date, the earlier you must return,  if you want that additional year of permission to stay

 

In the past this really did not impact me all that much, what is a week here or there !  But now that I am no longer using frequent flyer miles to upgrade (upgrades usually require full fare unrestricted ticket) I must follow airline ticket and travel restrictions.  Since US flag carrier's for all practical purposes have abandoned the Pacific there are not a lot of airline choices out of Seattle.  EVA Air, for instance,  requires that my trip length not exceed six months.  If I go over by even one day, the fare doubles.  So at least in my case timing matters

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

14 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

As explained to me, the processing time is what is driving his travel habits, it's not worth the trouble to try and get the two years out of the O-A,  since in his case, two are traveling but only one needs a Visa

 

The timing of the O-A Visa issue date impacts one's travel dates.  In order to get two years out of the $200 O-A Visa you must return one day before it expires and it's expiration date is 364 days from issue date.  So the earlier the issue date, the earlier you must return,  if you want that additional year of permission to stay

 

In the past this really did not impact me all that much, what is a week here or there !  But now that I am no longer using frequent flyer miles to upgrade (upgrades usually require full fare unrestricted ticket) I must follow airline ticket and travel restrictions.  Since US flag carrier's for all practical purposes have abandoned the Pacific there are not a lot of airline choices out of Seattle.  EVA Air, for instance,  requires that my trip length not exceed six months.  If I go over by even one day, the fare doubles.  So at least in my case timing matters

 

 

So, the issue you're talking about is really for someone using the O-A who's actually living in the U.S. for some good part of the year, and then spending other time in Thailand.

 

For me, as someone living full-time in Thailand, the once every two years short trip back to the U.S. to re-up an O-A visa would not seem to have the same issues/problems. So long as I made some out of Thailand travel at the end of the first year period of my visa, in order to gain the 2nd year of permitted stay.

 

Yes, the decent fares/6 month trip duration issue on air travel out of the U.S. can be a pain. But fortunately, the same isn't an issue when the starting point for one's travel is in Thailand, leading to a short stay in the U.S., followed by the return flight back to LOS.

 

[JackThompson]

On 11/9/2018 at 6:34 PM, Joe Mcseismic said:

Nope. Not enough. They want to see you spend a minimum of 65k a month. How you see it is irrelevant.

Nope.  They don't care if you have money (or go to school for your ED), beyond that which goes to them through the agent.

 

On 11/9/2018 at 7:12 PM, mogandave said:

They do not want people here that are broke.

No problem with that.  Broke people cannot eat or pay rent, so easy to spot, arrest, and deport. 

 

If "broke and homeless" expats become a serious problem (unlikely), then require a simple 40K "broke insurance" to pay for the flight home.  Easy to combine that with the "stabilize and repatriate" health coverage I suggested, so would take both issues off the table. 

 

And with that done, no need to pry into people's personal finances or set arbitrary income/bank limits, while ensuring that all foreigners here are guaranteed to be 100% upside for Thailand.