S1000RR 2019

[jackdd]

12 hours ago, eisfeld said:

it seems BMW ran into some kind of issue, maybe with a supplier?

Maybe Chinese engines ????

[eisfeld]

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Yeah it's gonna be pretty much the first of the 2020 bikes by the time it's released. God knows when Thailand will get it but don't hold your breath.

 

They're offloading 2018 models in the US for 12,xxx dollars. Meanwhile BMW Thailand still want close to a million baht.  

 

Looking forward to some first ride reviews. Seems to be taking forever.

By my estimate, the bike will be in Thailand some time around spring net year. Not holding my breath ????

 

Yea I saw also some of those deals in US, that's pretty amazing to get such a great bike for that price. Of course nothing like that in Thailand. If it doesn't sell, then increase the price! I wouldn't be surprised if old models would carry a higher price than the new one ????

 

First rides probably in (end of) march, that's when the press rides were planned and when dealers should have some bikes but with the delayed delivery dates? Who knows. Some guy working for BMW AU already rode it https://www.s1000rrforum.com/forum/bmw-s1000rr-general-discussion/223154-2019-292.html#post2312780

 

I don't like the vibes he mentioned, that's also something that stood out to one of the BMW factory test riders ????

I hoped they'd improve on that issue in the current generation which cost them quite a few sales on the XR.

[eisfeld]

Spoke to some BMW Motorrad sales folks in Munich today, the first guy wasn't sure at all and his colleague said "early summer" the dealers will have it. Some people on a German forum said the factory making the engine casings has trouble delivering.

[eisfeld]

I've seen the bike in the flesh a few weeks ago but couldn't sit on it. Looked quite nice though I'm unsure about the front. It was the red version, I think the M motorsport color one will look much better. The WSBK version (attached) also looks nice. So far BMW has had a good start into WSBK with the bike, Tom Sykes did some good times and it looks like a few podiums should be possible, maybe some wins even.

 

In two and a half weeks, 7th March, will be the official press launch in Spain so we'll get a lot of reviews from that day on. The first Superbike comparisons of 2019 also follow shortly after that.

 

 

[eisfeld]

Pressrides have been going on for the past days. MCN has a first writeup: https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/bmw/s1000rr/2019/

 

A video from a tester (but no riding action) below. More should follow today/tomorrow.

 

 

[eisfeld]

Unfortunately it seems they had pretty bad luck with the weather at the press launch, it was mostly wet. But more reviews are coming in.

 

There's a few french/italian/german video reviews on youtube but I'm only posting english ones.

 

https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/bikes/bmw/2019-bmw-s1000rr-review

 

There's a video "review" by VisorDown but it's so utterly bad that I'm not posting it. That site has gone down so much it's unbelievable. If you want to have a laugh though, go look for the vid, watch it a bit and then read the comments.

 

One on-board lap with 44teeth:

 

 

Nice audio and visual show (no review):

 

 

[guzzi850m2]

Awesome bike without a doubt but also wasted on me, I simply don't have the skills utilizing such a powerful bike and then on the roads in LOS! Very very risky, a bit of spirited acceleration and you are doing over 250.

As it is, my XSR900 is more than enough, during heavy acceleration from green lights I have several times felt the TC kicking in, saving my ass from sliding across the intersection. I am still on standard riding mode, haven't even tired A mode yet.

On my old V650, I felt the power was just not enough sometimes. As mentioned on some highways the general traffic are going quite fast (+120) and I had to go down one gear and gun it in order to pass fairly quickly, the XSR are way better here and a S1000RR will off-course be king. 

I very much doubt I ever get a more powerful bike than I have now, 115 is more than enough for me and I always smile when I am out riding it, enjoying the toque/sound from the 3 pot engine.

[eisfeld]

I spent some time with the bike today. Unfortunately it still had the limiter so couldn't spin it over a tad bit over 8k RPM. At 9k the shiftcam kicks in so I was a bit sad that I couldn't try that out.

 

I had the full-spec'd bike with M-Package etc. This package comes with the racing seat which I'm sure ppl will like for the track but on the streets it was just too hard. Unfortunately if you want the Motorsport colors (white/red/blue) then you *have* to order this hard seat. Very annoying. You also have the carbon wheels but they're at least cool ????

 

Another shit-move by BMW was to restrict changes for the suspension, wheely control, throttle, ABS and so on to the "Race Pro" modes which you have to buy extra. Without these, you can only choose between the pre-configured Rain, Road, Dynamic and Race modes. On the old bike you could change these settings in the standard modes.

 

So BMW is really really pushing people to buy the top spec bike. Unless you are fine without customizations.

 

 

Aaaanyways. I was quite impressed. The engine is a peach. You can take it to less than 2k RPM and it will without any fuss accelerate. It got noticeably more punch down low than the outgoing model. Well, low end is all I had to work with haha. Due to the limiter, I could only get it up to just under 200kph. But it's obvious that this thing has plenty of poke. The fueling is sublime, no surging or lurching. From closed to open throttle and back, all super smooth (in contrast to the Kawasaki Z900RS that I also rode today). Throttle control is excellent. I tried all modes but came back to Dynamic in the end which adjusts things on the fly. It gives you all the power if you pin it but at the same time is gentle around town. Fantastic! I really woudln't need any modes. BMW really puts most other manufacturers to shame with their crap fueling nowerdays.

 

And the sound was not too shabby really, considering that this bike is Euro5 compliant. Nice burble when closing the throttle and when opening it up, it screams.

 

The bike was very stable in the corners, minimally less so compared to the 2018 model I'd say. It is also noticeably more narrow between the legs but not all too much, just a very nice grip around the tank with the thighs. Flicks nicely from side to side, the weight savings really paid off!

 

The ergonomics are superbike aggressive but I felt much more comfy than on the Panigale V4. I also didn't feel like it would roast me, the Kawa felt warmer. Then again it wasn't super hot yet when I started in the morning.

 

A likely dealbreaker for me are the vibes, it really has a very buzzy engine/frame. Especially if you have to hold on to the bars during hard acceleration. I'm not the only one to complain about it and I can still feel it in my hands, 5 hours later. It's really the only thing I didn't like about the bike.

 

The quickshifter worked a bit better than the 2018 one which wasn't bad at all. If you know the right RPMs and throttle position, it can be very smooth, especially downshifts.

 

The dash really surprised me due to being so amazingly clear, even in direct sunshine. Never seen a better dash in my life, by far. Going through the menus was not super intuitive and I didn't want to play around too much. I'm sure it's no biggy once one gets the hang of it.

 

If BMW fixes the vibes then the next S1000R will be very high on my list. I'm not sure if the chances are good but one can hope.

 

BTW, this bike beats the Panigale V4 in top end and mid range, pretty much all across the RPM range. With 10% less displacement. On paper BMW specifies less than Ducati but in several dyno comparisons the BMW came ahead with more power at the rear wheel!

[JonnyF]

Good review Eisfeld.

 

Shame about the vibes though, that would be a real deal breaker for me. I seem to remember the old engine had a vibration issue as well, particularly the XR which vibrated at highway speeds (particularly annoying for a touring model).

 

I hadn't heard anything about the vibes on YouTube reviews. When you say you're not the only one to complain about it, do you mean on that specific bike or that model? Just wondering if maybe you rode a bike that wasn't assembled correctly as opposed to the issue being inherent in the design.  

[eisfeld]

11 hours ago, JonnyF said:

I hadn't heard anything about the vibes on YouTube reviews. When you say you're not the only one to complain about it, do you mean on that specific bike or that model? Just wondering if maybe you rode a bike that wasn't assembled correctly as opposed to the issue being inherent in the design.

I don't remember seeing any Youtube videos either but most of these reviews were on track where people might not care so much about it. The biggest German motorcycle mag did a big comparison of all Supersports on track and road. Several testers mentioned the vibes. Asphalt & Rubber also mentioned it being a deal breaker for the road. I also rode the XR and found it too vibey for the bike it i supposed to be (longer trips). This S1000RR had slightly stronger vibes than the XR as far as I can remember (2 years between the bikes). The R that I had for a full day was not as bad though, that's why I have some hopes.

 

I also had a go on a MT-10, Super Duke and a Speed Triple, also very nice bikes that (the latter two) unfortunately are not properly available in Thailand. The KTM especially was a lot of fun and really surprised me how well fuelled that big twin was. The Speedy also had decent fueling but not as good as the KTM, surprisingly little heat as well. Nice stock sound. The MT-10 was a tad bit less refined but also stupidly fun. Great sound and wheelies! Oh and I also tried the MT-09, in A mode you could call it a unicycle haha. I think you chose a very nice bike.

[SteveK]

It's an amazing bike, but I would, and did take an R1 over it any day. Two reasons: cost, and BMW customer service/reliability, which although decent, I don't consider it to be up to Yamaha's standards. My R1 (and R6s before it) were 100% reliable day after day for years on end.

 

Wouldn't have either in Thailand though. The roads are too bad, and people pull into your path all the bloody time.

 

Not to say I'm not jealous of people who can afford to buy one and keep it on the road - I am very jealous indeed! I test rode an Aprilia Tuono 1100RR, and that was a complete monster of a bike (I used to have a speed triple also, but this was on an entire other planet).

[guzzi850m2]

Bloody hell eisfeld, you have been trying a lot of bikes lately. I presume in Germany? All those bikes you mention, I doubt you can try them out in Thailand, well maybe a few of them but not those top models.

 

Odd the BMW is vibrating, this is 2019 and not 1919, so somewhat disappointing. . My ex HD had rubber mounted engine which pretty much cured the problem and that was an 2002 touring model. 

 

What do you mean by; the Triumph S.T. is not properly available here? I see them in the Triumph shop in Pattaya. I would say the Bimmer is also an exotic fish here in Thailand and service likely very expensive (as with the Trumpets).

 

[eisfeld]

1 hour ago, guzzi850m2 said:

Bloody hell eisfeld, you have been trying a lot of bikes lately. I presume in Germany? All those bikes you mention, I doubt you can try them out in Thailand, well maybe a few of them but not those top models.

 

Odd the BMW is vibrating, this is 2019 and not 1919, so somewhat disappointing. . My ex HD had rubber mounted engine which pretty much cured the problem and that was an 2002 touring model. 

 

What do you mean by; the Triumph S.T. is not properly available here? I see them in the Triumph shop in Pattaya. I would say the Bimmer is also an exotic fish here in Thailand and service likely very expensive (as with the Trumpets).

 

Yep exactly, am currently in Germany and took the opportunity to test ride all the bikes that I can get my hands on ????

 

Unfortunately I think with the vibes the development is towards more rather than less. What bikes have rubber mounted engines these days? "Engine as a stressed member" is the hot thing. And the quick revving ones don't want any weight from counter balancers etc.

 

The Triumph Street Triple is available in Thailand yes, but not the big sister Speed Triple which is the one I took for a dance.

[eisfeld]

@JonnyF here another reviewer that mentioned it:

 

Quote

The one downside is to all those featherweight internal bits is that you feel quite a bit of vibration through the grips when deep into the revs—something that’s forgotten quickly once your eyes are focused on the track.

https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2019/06/04/2020-bmw-s-1000-rr-review-19-fast-facts-from-barber/

[guzzi850m2]

9 hours ago, eisfeld said:

Yep exactly, am currently in Germany and took the opportunity to test ride all the bikes that I can get my hands on ????

 

Unfortunately I think with the vibes the development is towards more rather than less. What bikes have rubber mounted engines these days? "Engine as a stressed member" is the hot thing. And the quick revving ones don't want any weight from counter balancers etc.

 

The Triumph Street Triple is available in Thailand yes, but not the big sister Speed Triple which is the one I took for a dance.

OK I see.

 

I don't see that he complains about vibrations in that article you sent to link to? He says there is a flat-spot from 5500-8000rpm and that it?

Well anyway, an awesome bike for the track, can't really see the road use for it here in Thailand to be honest.

[JonnyF]

Here's an impressive dyno run from the guys at 44Teeth. Their videos are pretty funny, and also cool to hear a good old Bristolian accent from James at JHS Racing, a few kms from my home in Bristol (or Brizzle as we pronounce it).

 

 

[eisfeld]

44teeth are awesome motorcycle entertainment, love the Budget Bike Battles ????

 

Here a dyno graph from the German magazine that took all the bikes onto the same dyno on the same day so a proper comparison.

 

[eisfeld]

10 hours ago, guzzi850m2 said:

OK I see.

 

I don't see that he complains about vibrations in that article you sent to link to? He says there is a flat-spot from 5500-8000rpm and that it?

Well anyway, an awesome bike for the track, can't really see the road use for it here in Thailand to be honest.

I quoted the relevant part in my post, it's the sentence just before your mentioned flat-spot paragraph. And btw that flat-spot must be really some US specific thing because there for sure wasn't one in the bike that I tried. Looking at the dyno graphs, the exact opposite should be true, between 5k and 8k RPM there's a nice mountain of torque. Interesting! Which reminds me, I tried the Speed Twin again in Germany and contrary to the same bike in Thailand, it had quite some oomph even under 3k RPM while the one in Thailand was extremely lethargic! Shows how the fueling differences between countries can make a very big difference. Or is it just the fuel itself? No idea! Would love to find out what it is but don't see how ????

 

Here another reviewer, Michael Mann from Bennets (Bike Social) from the UK. I always like their reviews which go sometimes into more depth than others.  And this one is from a long term test, not just some quick adrenaline fueled sessions on a track.

 

https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/bikes/long-term-test-bikes/bmw-long-term-test-bikes/bmw-s1000rr-sport-longterm-review-price-spec?sfns=xmo

 

Quote

The seat is a different matter though - arseache sets in within the first hour on a motorway. There’s an awful lot of buzzing vibes too. Plenty of riders complain about BMWs in-line motor being vibey, especially on the S1000XR. I’ve never had problems like this one. The riding position encourages you to make contact with the fuel tank and you can feel it buzzing through your jacket. I thought my phone was ringing in my jacket pocket. There are also finger-numbing tingles through the bars on constant motorway throttle openings.

 

[eisfeld]

On 6/4/2019 at 12:57 AM, JonnyF said:

I hadn't heard anything about the vibes on YouTube reviews.

Since you were specifically mentioning Youtube reviews... 44teeth just released a road review and at about 14:30 they mention the vibes and the right hand getting numb ????

 

 

 

[JonnyF]

2 hours ago, eisfeld said:

Since you were specifically mentioning Youtube reviews... 44teeth just released a road review and at about 14:30 they mention the vibes and the right hand getting numb ????

 

 

 

Yeah I watched that last night. Seems the new bike is much more track focused than the old one. The old one really stood out as a fantastic, every day usable road bike that was a track weapon but was also great for touring, commuting, popping to the shops etc.

 

Seems this new one has raised the bar in terms of track performance but pays the price for that somewhat when you try and use it on the road. I saw another review that commented how it still manages to lack character despite it being an absolute rocket ship. I'm realizing this is probably not the bike for me, there are some great deals on low km 2016, 2017 S1000R's (single R) now, sub 400k Baht. Probably a better option for me if ever I find the time to ride. 

[thaiguzzi]

59 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

popping to the shops etc.

LOL.

I reckon a Honda Wave would be a better bet, especially with a basket on the front.

59 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I saw another review that commented how it still manages to lack character despite it being an absolute rocket ship.

Rocket ship & character in the same sentence is generally a very rare thing.

Being a Luddite, i have never, ever, come across an in line 4 that could be described as having character.

Perhaps the closest would have been the old air cooled muscle bikes with carbs, such as the Suzuki GSX1400 and Yamaha's XJR1300, ie bikes that still had a bit of flywheel weight, had torque right off idle, and did'nt rev up to 15k in a split second.

Oh and the red line was still 4 figures, not 5.

Ya know, proper bikes.

With analogue clocks.

And stuff you could actually work on yourself without needing a Masters Degree in electronics and computer science.

Edit,

call me old fashioned, but.........

[eisfeld]

8 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

Being a Luddite, i have never, ever, come across an in line 4 that could be described as having character.

Try one of the cross-plane crank Yamahas, I found the MT-10 to be really fun. Don't think you'd like it but I think one can't say it has no character.

[eisfeld]

I missed it but seems like BMW Motorrad released the new S1000RR a month ago at the Motor Expo. The price is now a whopping 1,020,000 THB up from 840k. As usual in Thailand not many options can be chosen, most interesting ones are included as fixed at least. It seems like carbon wheels or Li ion battery are not and also can't be ordered as an option according to the website.

 

30k EUR for what costs about 20k EUR in DE. Tough sell imho. I know the new excise tax added a bit (10%) but then it should be roughly 925k. So they added nearly another 100k on top for the updated version. Interestingly the R still costs the same 675k.

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, eisfeld said:

I missed it but seems like BMW Motorrad released the new S1000RR a month ago at the Motor Expo. The price is now a whopping 1,020,000 THB up from 840k. As usual in Thailand not many options can be chosen, most interesting ones are included as fixed at least. It seems like carbon wheels or Li ion battery are not and also can't be ordered as an option according to the website.

 

30k EUR for what costs about 20k EUR in DE. Tough sell imho. I know the new excise tax added a bit (10%) but then it should be roughly 925k. So they added nearly another 100k on top for the updated version. Interestingly the R still costs the same 675k.

Do you know if that's the M Package or the standard model?

 

The M has the carbon wheels, Li ion battery already so that might be why they are not an option. It would also explain the extra price but it's still expensive either way.

[eisfeld]

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Do you know if that's the M Package or the standard model?

 

The M has the carbon wheels, Li ion battery already so that might be why they are not an option. It would also explain the extra price but it's still expensive either way.

 

It would make sense if it were the M but to me it seems not. There seems to be no M package in Thailand, no mentioning of it on the page. They do offer the Motorsport color though which in other places they only do with the M package but here you can select freely between that or red. The specs say cast Alu wheels and nothing specific about the battery so I assume standard one.

 

BTW there's most likely going to be a higher spec version of the S1000RR called M1000RR similarily what the V4 R is to the normal Ducati V4. Probably an HP4 successor.