Borrow 800'000B for yearly Extension ?

[Jumbo1968]

5 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Wow. This forum is about helping each other and express our opinions - good or bad. It is not about collecting statistics (fake or real). Can you at least list the legwork you did? May be that's also a secret. You just opened an account in an unknown bank (in your dream?). The statement means nothing, otherwise. 

 

2 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

This person does not even say which country he is from. That makes ALL the difference. If he's a Yank , then he is a liar. If he is from any other country, I would tend to believe him.

No I won’t name the bank, I don’t want everyman and his dog going there asking to open an account possibly be refused and then say why did you open one for such and such person.

I read loads of stuff on Thai Visa, formulated the best way forward, had a walk round a few banks, get off your butt and do the same as I did.

[Jumbo1968]

7 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

This person does not even say which country he is from. That makes ALL the difference. If he's a Yank , then he is a liar. If he is from any other country, I would tend to believe him.

I am from the U.K, I was asked to sign a form to ask if I was from the States but that was for tax purposes.

[Peterw42]

40 minutes ago, tideout said:

It sounds like a Citibank account would make sense based on the zero $ transfer from outside of Thailand. What would I need to open a Citibank account ahead of doing the immigration dance (w/800K) ? It seems you'd have to already have the Thai account and money deposited before you can start the process.....meaning you'd have to have some form of residency within Thailand right?

I'm also wondering if it would make it any easier to get a Citibank account from where I'm currently living to then take to a Thai Citibank office? Can it be done with only a tourist visa? Any experiences with that?

It appears you can apply online

 

https://www.citibank.co.th/en/forms/banking/leadcapture.htm?icid=THBKASPENMOTLCAAN

[NoshowJones]

On 11/20/2018 at 3:44 PM, Scottjouro said:

Although not illegal in terms of law, borrowing money at a fee to fulfill a visa reqirement, is against the intent of the rules put innplace to ensure pensioners have adequate funds to live on while in Thailand,  

 

Exploiting this loop hole this will eventually make immigration modify or change the rules, ie a simple requirement that the 800k funds must come into the country from an outside source via  TT for similiar will put an end to this practice.

 

 

There are far too many influential people making a lot of money through this, so not one of them is going to say "this must be stopped", and if any of them did, what are the rest going to do? Agree? I don't think so.

[onera1961]

1 minute ago, Jumbo1968 said:

had a walk round a few banks, get off your butt and do the same as I did.

Even if thousand people on retirement visa walk into that bank, how is it going to affect your life? Nothing is going to happen to you. May be the said bank will open thousand accounts and it is going to benefit the banks.

Most retirees, I guess have at least one account, including me. But to give an impression that it is easy if you just walk around into all banks in one square mile area of Pattaya, you can open an account, even if you have a tourist visa is false. Tomorrow I am going to Kasiorn bank and check out how easy it is. May be they will open an account for me because I can show them I have a Bangkok bank account. 

[DJ54]

If we (Thaivisa and members) could find an ear to listen maybe they could have provision for those caught with short notice and some the Danish with no notice. 

 

A provision that gives leeway as they implement the new regulations without Embassy Income documents.

 

I know probably a pipe dream but won’t hurt to try....

[Jumbo1968]

12 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Even if thousand people on retirement visa walk into that bank, how is it going to affect your life? Nothing is going to happen to you. May be the said bank will open thousand accounts and it is going to benefit the banks.

Most retirees, I guess have at least one account, including me. But to give an impression that it is easy if you just walk around into all banks in one square mile area of Pattaya, you can open an account, even if you have a tourist visa is false. Tomorrow I am going to Kasiorn bank and check out how easy it is. May be they will open an account for me because I can show them I have a Bangkok bank account. 

I have a Bangkok Bank Account, I told my new bank verbally but they never asked me to provide any proof I had one. 

I didn’t walk round Pattaya, I did research on the internet on a bank that provided an account suitable for my Extension which paid interest and I had access too with out losing the interest if I withdrew money.

BTW it wasn’t Kasikorn, 

[NoshowJones]

On 11/20/2018 at 4:21 PM, Jingthing said:

Not sure but there can always be a first time and that's no big joke.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

and if that first time ever comes, what will become of the person in authority responsible? Who in any authority is going to allow his/her income stream to reduce?

[NoshowJones]

On 11/20/2018 at 8:30 PM, gk10002000 said:

There are many ways to fund the account as that is all the Thais look at.  The fact one may be spending oneself into debt, getting negative return on the "investment" is irrelevant.   Not a great financial plan, but that is up to the individual to decide.  Similar things are likely to pop up even for the income method.  People that don't have cash assets to put out 800k baht will likely scramble and find creative ways to show a transfer of 65k a month every month, even though that by itself is no guarantee of any sustainable steady income

The married retirees can always go down the Savvakhanet route which will be much cheaper than paying an agent, the problems there are if they become unable to continue down that route because of ill health, or the wife dies before him. 

Thai immigration are not exactly the compassionate type.

[tideout]

15 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

It appears you can apply online

 

https://www.citibank.co.th/en/forms/banking/leadcapture.htm?icid=THBKASPENMOTLCAAN

Thanks man, I'll check it out.

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, onera1961 said:

Please post the bank name and branch location. And also various documents you had to provide. Your passport country. These thing should not be a secret sauce.

For me, UK passport, Bangkok Bank, Soi Buakao branch.

 

The only paperwork of significance, as far as I can remember, was a residency certificate from immigration.

Edited November 25, 2018 by Spidey

[JackThompson]

4 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Many many.

And sure there are some retired "victims" of circumstances.  But, mostly bad decisions, lack of educating themselves, wasting money, lack of planning.

They need to look in the mirror for blame and not at their local IO.

Sometimes its the local IO not following the rules or adding new ones.  But this time, the method of proving income has simply vanished, and we don't know what's coming next.  It's impossible to plan for either of those two situations.

 

Sure, more money/savings is always nice, ala the "hard-work + save all you can" combination.  And we've all known folks who blow money on drink, etc - so don't follow the recipe.  But "lifetime" union-scale, or even decade-length professional jobs have become increasingly scarce - then add the "luck" factor, which includes:

Job wasn't sent overseas, Not replaced by a foreign-worker on a visa, Company didn't downsize or "go Enron", Home-values didn't collapse leaving you under-water on the mortgage, No medical-bankruptcy to spite having insurance, Home currency didn't fall precipitously vs the Baht, etc (some can occur multiple times).

 

So it's "most" people who don't get the critical "good-luck" factor, to combine with the hard work and savings due-diligence. 

[Suradit69]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

It's not as if they don't know already that people can use loans, either through agent schemes, or literally for three month period. These things aren't secrets. 

It wasn't a secret that people misused tourist visas or visa exempt entries or Ed visas or that embassies weren't really verifying incomes. or people were over staying or ( in the past) shifting money into and out of accounts a few day before extension renewal,  etc. but people bragging or complaining about those things made the extent of it clearer.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2018 by Suradit69

[KKr]

That is called a loan-shark.
one day overdue on something and gone is the apartment.
Beware !!

[rascalman]

I chose to talk to long term people who might have answers. One man said if you do not have that in bank you are a freeloader. Bullshit I have over 5,000 us coming in. Do have obligations in the US. But still have income. I just renewed and I now am worried. 

Why do the Thai immigration not help? 

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

It wasn't a secret that people misused tourist visas or visa exempt entries or Ed visas or that embassies weren't really verifying incomes. or people were over staying or ( in the past) shifting money into and out of accounts a few day before extension renewal,  etc. but people bragging or complaining about those things made the extent of it clearer.

 

 

 

 

I hear what you're saying but the cat is already out of the bag. They're gonna do what they're gonna do. Self censuring ourselves is not likely to make any difference. I get your point of course but I think it's presuming more than can be known. 

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, onera1961 said:

I guess agents are still paying what official 1900 baht for extension. The client just hired an agent and borrowed the money from the agent. Nowhere is says you cannot borrow the money. Agents are not paying any thing extra officially. It is still 1900. Of course they are paying tea money that goes into the officers' pockets and he is sill going to spend that money in Thai economy. So it harms nobody. 

Many forms of harm:

 

The first, is that agents put the screws to "honest" applicants, to drive up agent-submissions - which is my experience with it.  If all offices operated like Chang Wattana, running "by the book" in person, and doing whatever on the side, I wouldn't really care.

 

The second, is that money which would have been spent in legit businesses by expats, is diverted into corrupt pockets.  Yes, that money gets "into the economy" - but the restaurant/bar/etc is still hurt, or goes out of business.  This distorts the market.

2 hours ago, onera1961 said:

If they are taking advantage of a loophole that allows high level officers to waive seasoning requirements, I don't see anything illegal about that and agents are taking advantage of that loophole by establishing personal relationship with those officers (and money in their pockets), here is nothing wrong with that. I am tired of the moral police.  

Loopholes for them - not for us, though ("seasoning" on the combo-method comes to mind).  Which leads me to the 3rd form of harm - the example it sets, which permeates the society.  One might consider this "moralistic" - but it is actually quite pragmatic. 

 

The goal of a sane society should be encouraging people to study, work hard, and innovate, creating a better / more-advanced society - which is done by rewarding that behavior - and also by punishing the "cheat, buy a job, and extort people for a living" type of behavior. 

 

I don't think it takes a puritanical streak to want future generations to grow up into a more decent, meritocratic society than exists today.

[Pattaya46]

2 hours ago, Jumbo1968 said:

//  a bank that provided an account suitable for my Extension which paid interest and I had access too with out losing the interest if I withdrew money. BTW it wasn’t Kasikorn, 

A bit surprised by this comment. Frequent solution to get interests at Kasikornbank is to put your 800k on a Fixed Deposit Interest account. But if you have no penalties, for sure you lost your interest if you remove money before term.

So, curious to know what type of account you are talking about...?? 

[Jumbo1968]

13 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

A bit surprised by this comment. Frequent solution to get interests at Kasikornbank is to put your 800k on a Fixed Deposit Interest account. But if you have no penalties, for sure you lost your interest if you remove money before term.

So, curious to know what type of account you are talking about...?? 

Search the forums like I did or google it to find a account that pays interest without penalties.

[onera1961]

1 hour ago, rascalman said:

I chose to talk to long term people who might have answers.

May be new comers are better prepared, gained all the knowledge from reading posts of long term people and many rules  have changed since long-term people had arrived here. Many new comers (retirees) have spent considerable time in Thailand using visa exemption. SETV, border runs, etc. before moving here on retirement.

For example, I have been coming here since 2004 few times a year and spent three three years 2011-2013 doing visa exemption. SETV, visa runs, ED visa etc. Just got my O-A this year for retirement and I have never done any extensions. No I don't have all the answers. Still learning reading posts here. I bet there will be lots of people like me also.

 

When I was researching about how to get retirements most advise here what I got was visa exemption entry, change to non-O, put money in Thai bank for seasoning, and extend it. Because that's what most people do. Vary few advised with details about how to get an O-A in the USA. One guy in Bangkok I spoke to told me to get an O visa from USA. One cannot get an O visa without family relationship (because that's how he came here) in the USA from any consulate or Thai Embassy in Washington DC. 
 

1 hour ago, rascalman said:

I have over 5,000 us coming in.

That is lot of money and you should be able to arrange a personal loan in the US. As you just renewed, take this one year to build a solid credit history by applying for credit cards (suggestion Capital One) and use it for all expenses and pay it off at the end of the month). You can check out peer-to-peer lending companies like Prospect. They will charge a high rate for personal loan but still better than loan sharks here. I think one should not burn the bridge to their home land.

Keep one or multiple bank accounts in the US (even if they have 100 in each) and try to maintain an US address for all bank and credit cards. Don't buy condos. rent is cheap, e.g my 2.4 million condo rents for 10K a month. It will take me 20 years to get any return on that investment. The same money invested in S&P 500 will give me rent + a few millions at the end of 20 years.

As a last resort you can use an agent. Let it not prevent you from using them due to your Western sense of ethics, morality, or bribing. I understand in the US ordinary people don't have to bribe to get things done. But elections are bought using PACs, oligarchs write laws and rules (through lobbying) to benefits them. There is now talk to cut SS or increase retirement age. Oligarchs want you to work till you die. 



 

Edited November 25, 2018 by onera1961

[sumrit]

4 hours ago, KhunFred said:

I can definitely relate. The idea that you can just walk into a bank and open an account if you are a foreigner is incredibly naive. I tried at three different banks after I had already opening a Direct Deposit account at Bangkok Bank.  They ALL wanted "work permit". Telling them that I was retired and forbidden to work under the terms of my visa was not understood or accepted. What kind of strange system is this??

 

1

Why, that's what I did last year. I've had a Kasikorn account in a Pattaya branch for many, many years but last year I decided I needed an alternative and went to a KTB branch in Chonburi. I'm on a retirement Extension so no work permit. I didn't even take my Passport, just used my Yellow Tabien Baan and pink ID card. In and out in less than about half an hour without a problem. I was given a 'visa' ATM card with both instore and on-line compatibility. I wouldn't go to the Bangkok Bank because they no longer issue 'visa' ATM cards and the ones they now issue have very limited 'in store/0n-line' payment facilities.

[MadMuhammad]

A quick question for anyone that cares to answer. 

 

For those that don’t have the 800K bank deposit or 65K income how do you survive living a comofortable life? 

I only ask as a lot of people I have seen that are bothered by this are quite well along in life ie: late 60’s and up.

 

Considering what I see as essentials: food, health insurance, registration, vehicle insurance, rent (in most cases), entertainment, utilities, medical costs if and when required, dentist, hair cuts, entertainment, back up savings, infrequent travel ie: short breaks, clothing, toiletries, girlfriend/wife, what kind of life are you living. 

 

Genuine and honest question 

[JackThompson]

4 minutes ago, sumrit said:

I wouldn't go to the Bangkok Bank because they no longer issue 'visa' ATM cards and the ones they now issue have very limited 'in store/0n-line' payment facilities.

That changed this month, per others reports - MC now available.

 

2 minutes ago, MadMuhammad said:

A quick question for anyone that cares to answer. 

 

For those that don’t have the 800K bank deposit or 65K income how do you survive living a comofortable life? 

I only ask as a lot of people I have seen that are bothered by this are quite well along in life ie: late 60’s and up.

 

Considering what I see as essentials: food, health insurance, registration, vehicle insurance, rent (in most cases), entertainment, utilities, medical costs if and when required, dentist, hair cuts, entertainment, back up savings, infrequent travel ie: short breaks, clothing, toiletries, girlfriend/wife, what kind of life are you living. 

 

Genuine and honest question 

I live up-country now - but quick summary of when I lived in Jomtien:

High-floor condo w/ ocean view w/ live-in gf (who had her own job - now wife).  Gf's money just paid for some of her extras and her family.

Entertainment - movies, eating out regularly, shopping, travel around incl Bangkok markets, temples, etc.

No car - sick of maintaining one all my working-life, so baht-buses + rent a truck or taxi when necessary. 

Dental: 60%+ cheaper in Cambodia for good quality (root canals, crowns), but fillings better-quality in Thailand. 

Was a Tourist-Visa most of that time, so 4x trips per-year for visas (3K to 5K Baht each) + 4 extensions (1900 Baht each).

 

Medical would be your biggest problem at late 60s, but check what the Pattaya expat's club has on offer.  Better yet, if possible (if young enough), work a year here, then continue paying the state-insurance.

 

All the above cost me ~40K/mo.  If no gf / eat at home / less going out - easy on 30K or less.  But, this depends on medical-insurance costs for your age-bracket / conditions.

[Scottjouro]

56 minutes ago, MadMuhammad said:

A quick question for anyone that cares to answer. 

 

For those that don’t have the 800K bank deposit or 65K income how do you survive living a comofortable life? 

I only ask as a lot of people I have seen that are bothered by this are quite well along in life ie: late 60’s and up.

 

Considering what I see as essentials: food, health insurance, registration, vehicle insurance, rent (in most cases), entertainment, utilities, medical costs if and when required, dentist, hair cuts, entertainment, back up savings, infrequent travel ie: short breaks, clothing, toiletries, girlfriend/wife, what kind of life are you living. 

 

Genuine and honest question 

On in your question is another question

 

Define a comfortable life ?...what a comfortable life is to one is borderline poverty to others..

 

The old debate of living or surviving... i guess those farangs who are surviving border line poverty in Thailand prefer to conduct their sad existance in the sun and warm than the cold and wet of places like Blighty 

[anon537687643]

Use visa agent. 25000 baht. Easy peasy. 

25000 is lost! Dead money


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[MadMuhammad]

27 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

That changed this month, per others reports - MC now available.

 

I live up-country now - but quick summary of when I lived in Jomtien:

High-floor condo w/ ocean view w/ live-in gf (who had her own job - now wife).  Gf's money just paid for some of her extras and her family.

Entertainment - movies, eating out regularly, shopping, travel around incl Bangkok markets, temples, etc.

No car - sick of maintaining one all my working-life, so baht-buses + rent a truck or taxi when necessary. 

Dental: 60%+ cheaper in Cambodia for good quality (root canals, crowns), but fillings better-quality in Thailand. 

Was a Tourist-Visa most of that time, so 4x trips per-year for visas (3K to 5K Baht each) + 4 extensions (1900 Baht each).

 

Medical would be your biggest problem at late 60s, but check what the Pattaya expat's club has on offer.  Better yet, if possible (if young enough), work a year here, then continue paying the state-insurance.

 

All the above cost me ~40K/mo.  If no gf / eat at home / less going out - easy on 30K or less.  But, this depends on medical-insurance costs for your age-bracket / conditions.

Thank for your detailed response, great breakdown. 

 

I’m 41 so I have next to zero medical costs/issues for now although I am still fully insured.  Great info regarding dental, thanks for that. 

[DrJack54]

21 minutes ago, Scottjouro said:

On in your question is another question

 

Define a comfortable life ?...what a comfortable life is to one is borderline poverty to others..

 

The old debate of living or surviving... i guess those farangs who are surviving border line poverty in Thailand prefer to conduct their sad existance in the sun and warm than the cold and wet of places like Blighty 

Don't listen to above quote about living on 40k a month or still better 30k. Those topics are ping pong games on TV. Its like a challenge of who can be most frugal. I spend about 65k-70kusd here every year. I still seek out cheap accomm and cheap bars etc. Don't think in money. Think is Asia "opportunity cost". The 100baht beer I don't have at don mueang airport converts to 5 500ml Saigon green in Saigon once I land. The poor old me folk with very little dosh maybe haven't worked too much in life come to los and brag they live on 40k a month. Also complain about not being able to come up with 800k baht for 3 months of the year. GO HOME

Edited November 25, 2018 by DrJack54
Error

[MadMuhammad]

15 minutes ago, Scottjouro said:

On in your question is another question

 

Define a comfortable life ?...what a comfortable life is to one is borderline poverty to others..

 

The old debate of living or surviving... i guess those farangs who are surviving border line poverty in Thailand prefer to conduct their sad existance in the sun and warm than the cold and wet of places like Blighty 

Youre absolutely right. My idea of a confortable life is not having to watch every baht all day every day, having the ability to return home to see family or pay an unexpected decent size bill without being concerned where the money is coming from/having to adjust my lifestyle. A nice meal and a blow out with the boys is always more enjoyable when you know you can easily afford it . 

 

My outgoings each month including some travel to BKK (gf in Samut Prakan), fuel for 2 bikes (Ducati & Aerox), food, CrossFit, massages, utilities, Insurances, movies & entertainment, rent and misc is around 60K per month on a budget of 75K. 

 

I live a pretty low key life, no regular bar visits and social drinker, and I guess with a cheaper condo I could drop that to 50Kish which could be trimmed further if I started to scrimp (not enjoyable though) 

 

As I get older Insurances and savings will only grow in importance to me plus having a lump sum aside for any emergencies above and beyond savings. 

 

I agree living in paradise on the ‘poverty line’ would be much more enjoyable but the reality of it tends to be much more difficult. 

 

Ultimately having to panic and be concerned when there is a new rule (enforcement)/policy change by the government or home embassy would be a little to oppressive for me, especiallly if I couldn’t meet the financial requirements. 

[JackThompson]

8 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

The poor old me folk with very little dosh maybe haven't worked too much in life come to los and brag they live on 40k a month. Also complain about not being able to come up with 800k baht for 3 months of the year. GO HOME

You don't know how we worked, saved, and lived.  No bragging involved - if I wanted to do that, I'd "brag" about how rich I am and how much I spend.  I am married here and love the culture, so intend to stay - but if all that evaporated tomorrow, there are many, many better cost/benefit nations than "home," who welcome people like myself pouring free-money into their economies.

 

If you want to spend a lot of money on things I don't want or need, that's fine.  But no reason to get judgmental about it, and imply we are "bad" or should be ordered "home" like a naughty-dog, for not having your chosen spending-habits.

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

You don't know how we worked, saved, and lived.  No bragging involved - if I wanted to do that, I'd "brag" about how rich I am and how much I spend.  I am married here and love the culture, so intend to stay - but if all that evaporated tomorrow, there are many, many better cost/benefit nations than "home," who welcome people like myself pouring free-money into their economies.

 

If you want to spend a lot of money on things I don't want or need, that's fine.  But no reason to get judgmental about it, and imply we are "bad" or should be ordered "home" like a naughty-dog, for not having your chosen spending-habits.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe confused with other similar "living the alternative lifestyle, not into worldly goods" old tune. Think in previous posts you mentioned your under 50. Again I'm prob wrong. If not and not working then no wonder your banging on about Thai immigration rules