Phetchabun Immigration - report

[CharlieH]

Visited the IO today. Spoke to a senior officer and was surprised that they had no idea whatsoever about the various Embassies discontinuing the letters of income etc.

 

I was told that with no letter, only possible alternative was 800k for Retirement or switch to Marriage.

 

On questioning validity period for the letter they confirmed upto 6 months, "but things can change" they said, they cannot predict and best to prepare for both scenarios, was the advice given to me.

 

Get the letter in December it "may" be ok for April (my renewal) , or 800k Capital for retirement.

Or switch to marriage and 400k 2 months prior.

 

They asked if I knew why this has happened and I did my best to explain and they were surprised and seemed to genuinely have no knowledge of the changes.

 

None of this will be new to many, but thought it useful to know for a specific IO.

[OJAS]

I strongly suspect that this blissful ignorance of recent Embassy income confirmation service decisions is widely shared among the immigration office "community".

 

As least those of us retirees who are married do have a "cheaper" option available to us - as well as the ability, in most cases, to delay the start of the seasoning period through an interim 60-day extension.

Edited November 20, 2018 by OJAS

[yankee99]

It will be interesting when 2019 comes and all Australian, British and Americans who dont read TV and not on the embassy email list find out there pensions are no longer valid for visa purposes 

[hellstens]

I ask my Immigration and they tell me I only need a letter (and my Thai Bankbook) from my Bank showing my income every month for the year, No need for Embassy letter.

 

 

[OJAS]

6 minutes ago, hellstens said:

I ask my Immigration and they tell me I only need a letter (and my Thai Bankbook) from my Bank showing my income every month for the year, No need for Embassy letter.

 

 

Which office is this?

[yankee99]

23 minutes ago, hellstens said:

I ask my Immigration and they tell me I only need a letter (and my Thai Bankbook) from my Bank showing my income every month for the year, No need for Embassy letter.

 

 

what does the letter say and who writes it? 

[maybefitz]

I asked my bank (BKK bank, Thapae, CM) if hey would supply a letter confirming my income of about 70,000 bt a month. This is 2 direct pension inputs of 15,000 each, plus 40,000 bt I put in from ATM from my UK bank ( also a pension income). They said 'No' (mai dai). So my only hope next August is IO CM will accept my bank book with this information. 

I don't like the idea of paying some crook of an agent to 'season' me 80,000 for a day at 20,000 bt a whack, some of it going to a wonky IO officer on the take..

[CharlieH]

Posts removed.

 

Members - attention please !!

 

If you do not state what office you are dealing with specifically then your post is meaningless and irrelevant.

Stating "they said"  etc means nothing if you dont state where.

[wwest5829]

Yesterday’s meeting with the American diplomatic mission pointed us to Thai Immigration Police regulation 777-2551 I found it in English at : http://www.samutprakanimmigration.go.th/downloads/policy777-2551_en.pdf

 

As many of us living here are aware, the wheels of bureaucracy turn slowly. The American mission meeting with the Kingdom of Thailand Immigration officials in Bangkok and Chiang Mai emphasized the need for transparency and consistency. Expats among those attending related going to CM immigration and having no problem with either presenting the regular affidavit and/or bank documentation showing the income requirement being met. Another stated having been sent home for bank documentation. We are still on the “bleeding edge” of having recognized documents.

 

As usual, dealing with Americans is like herding cats. Unlike some Europeans where they can show one government document stating a yearly pension, many Americans receive their Social Security (amount does not meet the income amount required) and various other sources (pensions, 401s savings, stock earnings, etc.).

 

we were assured that the affidavits would be issued until the first of the new year and that the affidavit would be good for six months so those asking for an extension will be OK through June....stay tuned.....

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

Yesterday’s meeting with the American diplomatic mission pointed us to Thai Immigration Police regulation 777-2551

That police order was rescinded in 2014 when order 327/2557 went into effect. Not much difference in the relevant clauses though.

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, hellstens said:

I ask my Immigration and they tell me I only need a letter (and my Thai Bankbook) from my Bank showing my income every month for the year, No need for Embassy letter.

 

 

There is no point in really bothering about it just now as every Immigration office, and officer will tell you different things, and as CharlieH said, there was one who did not know at all.

[Jack james]

1 hour ago, wwest5829 said:

Yesterday’s meeting with the American diplomatic mission pointed us to Thai Immigration Police regulation 777-2551 I found it in English at : http://www.samutprakanimmigration.go.th/downloads/policy777-2551_en.pdf

 

As many of us living here are aware, the wheels of bureaucracy turn slowly. The American mission meeting with the Kingdom of Thailand Immigration officials in Bangkok and Chiang Mai emphasized the need for transparency and consistency. Expats among those attending related going to CM immigration and having no problem with either presenting the regular affidavit and/or bank documentation showing the income requirement being met. Another stated having been sent home for bank documentation. We are still on the “bleeding edge” of having recognized documents.

 

As usual, dealing with Americans is like herding cats. Unlike some Europeans where they can show one government document stating a yearly pension, many Americans receive their Social Security (amount does not meet the income amount required) and various other sources (pensions, 401s savings, stock earnings, etc.).

 

we were assured that the affidavits would be issued until the first of the new year and that the affidavit would be good for six months so those asking for an extension will be OK through June....stay tuned.....

My ss meets the requirement... why is it people have to be insulting when its not necessary?

[Thai Chi]

38 minutes ago, Issanjohn said:

Sorry I didn’t read your whole post

 

38 minutes ago, Issanjohn said:

I also skimmed through your last paragraph

Seriously, you had problems reading 8 and a half lines of text?

And expect others to read even more lines when you post!

For some, ALL of the information garnished from these posts could make a difference.

 

Here is another one you didn't read or skimmed over ......

3 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Members - attention please !!

 

If you do not state what office you are dealing with specifically then your post is meaningless and irrelevant.

 

Edited November 21, 2018 by Thai Chi

[marcusarelus]

4 hours ago, hellstens said:

I ask my Immigration and they tell me I only need a letter (and my Thai Bankbook) from my Bank showing my income every month for the year, No need for Embassy letter.

What office?

[Nielsk]

4 hours ago, yankee99 said:

It will be interesting when 2019 comes and all Australian, British and Americans who dont read TV and not on the embassy email list find out there pensions are no longer valid for visa purposes 

.......and Danes !!

[CharlieH]

A number of OFF TOPIC irrelevant posts removed.

 

Once again, if you dont state your specific I.O. then anything you state is irrelevant to this topic and will be removed.

[Issanjohn]

As someone else (reliable) previously stated this is what Thai law says, For a MARRIAGE VISA “EXTENSION” “one way is 400k baht in a Thai bank.  The other way is 40k baht monthly income according to the police order number: 327/2557.  

 

Quote

“The (6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual income of no less than 40,000 baht per month or must have no less than 400,000 baht in a bank account in Thailand for at least the past two months to cover expenses for one year.”

 

So basically when you transfer the money in every month you can spend it as soon as it comes into the country.  They just want to verify that we receive the minimum monthly income requirement every month via Thai bank statement.  Obviously immigration will start enforcing this strictly after the income affidavits totally go away mid next year.  Obviously everyone’s income situation is different and apparently a few people on here don’t like the monthly income option even though probably most of us use the monthly income option such as those of us receiving monthly pension payments, people who receive Social Security, and people like me, am retired military and a disabled so I make more than double the minimum monthly income requirement.  That’s the law period like it or not.  

 

This is why I don’t like reading most of these posts because I prefer to use actual known facts.  No offense to the OP but that’s just here say information and an IO’s opinion, when I’m at my local immigration office I politely ask more questions  which is what you should have probably done, and when I do I get verification in writing and I always get the truth.  So far things are going great.  I think the end of the income affidavits might actually turn out to be a good thing it’ll save us a trip to the embassy and save us $50 dollars a year and from now on just use your Thai bank statement.  Bangkok Bank I hear has the most immigration friendly bank statements.  

[Thaidream]

25 minutes ago, Issanjohn said:

This is why I don’t like reading most of these posts because I prefer to use actual known facts.  No offense to the OP but that’s just here say information and an IO’s opinion, when I’m at my local immigration office I politely ask more questions  which is what you should have probably done, and when I do I get verification in writing and I always get the truth.  So far things are going great.  I think the end of the income affidavits might actually turn out to be a good thing it’ll save us a trip to the embassy and save us $50 dollars a year and from now on just use your Thai bank statement.  Bangkok Bank I hear has the most immigration friendly bank statements.  

Please tell us what Immigration Office you keep referring to so others who use that office can understand what to expect.

[JackThompson]

13 minutes ago, Issanjohn said:

the alien husband must earn an average annual income of no less than 40,000 baht per month

That's fine, if I can show it via foreign bank-transfers, and am not expected to try to explain foreign-company documents or tax-returns to back it up.  I can produce the latter (Americans pay taxes regardless of where we live), but I don't think they will do/allow the latter due to time, complexity, and the potential-rewards, if I could be forced to an agent.

 

17 minutes ago, Issanjohn said:

This is why I don’t like reading most of these posts because I prefer to use actual known facts.  No offense to the OP but that’s just here say information and an IO’s opinion, when I’m at my local immigration office I politely ask more questions  which is what you should have probably done, and when I do I get verification in writing and I always get the truth.

The problem arises when the laws and police-orders are not the actual deciding factor - and they often are not.  Current oversight is not sufficiently rigorous to ensure a uniform set of standards.  Therefore, what "your IO says, may actually be the most important thing to know - though may not apply to those at other offices.

 

At this point, all we can hope for is guidance directed from the top, which can provide some degree of uniformity to the "new income-proving process," nationwide.  Given the OP's report on the Petchabun office, it appears no such guidance has been issued thus far.

[slappy]

7 hours ago, hellstens said:

I ask my Immigration and they tell me I only need a letter (and my Thai Bankbook) from my Bank showing my income every month for the year, No need for Embassy letter.

 

 

I also asked my immigration. (Khon kaen) And the response i got was. No monthly income ONLY lump sum. 

[CharlieH]

Posts removed as per public notice.

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, Issanjohn said:

The (6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual income of no less than 40,000 baht per month or must have no less than 400,000 baht in a bank account in Thailand for at least the past two months to cover expenses for one year.”

That is not a complete statement according to the Udon office 

 

So if you work it must be in Thailand according to the leaflet.

 

And if you don't work you must have the letter from the embassy 

 

Though they don't insist on the MoF verification.

 

as with all immigration matters YMMV.

 

also if you want to try to see if the translation is accurate here is the same guidance in thai

 

 

all from Udon Thani IO

Edited November 21, 2018 by sometimewoodworker

[DPKANKAN]

7 hours ago, yankee99 said:

It will be interesting when 2019 comes and all Australian, British and Americans who dont read TV and not on the embassy email list find out there pensions are no longer valid for visa purposes 

Not just us. Apparently I was told today that the Danish Embassy stopped it immediately without telling any of their countrymen!!!

[rumak]

2 hours ago, CharlieH said:

A number of OFF TOPIC irrelevant posts removed.

 

Once again, if you dont state your specific I.O. then anything you state is irrelevant to this topic and will be removed.

i already posted this in another related topic.  I believe it explains what information is necessary and relevant to this discussion.  otherwise its just opinions, and more opinions:

 

Try going into TI and asking what their guidelines re: income verification are (in writing would be nice).   Anything else anyone (even the us govt) says will be irrelevant.

Reports of people doing extensions with other than the deposit method (800k or 400k) in the following days/weeks/months will shed some light on the ""guidelines".  Actual and factual experiences will be the only real way to enlighten others .

   Please STATE:  what did you use to "verify" your monthly income ( was it accepted or rejected)....     AND...at.which TI office was this done

 

Edited November 21, 2018 by rumak

[davhend25]

Hello all,

 

While doing my 90 day report in the Chanthaburi IO a few weeks ago, I asked the head IO (who spoke near perfect English) about the recent declaration by several of the embassies regarding the "income affidavit" no longer being issued after Jan. 1, 2019. He said that he was not aware of this. He showed me a pre-printed fact sheet that stated without the embassy income affidavit, the only acceptable method would be the seasoned 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account. He did say that they would honor an income letter, obtained before Jan. 1, 2019, for 6 months. So I plan on going to the U.S. Embassy in mid December to get an income affidavit which will be good until May or June of next year when my current retirement extension expires. I think I can apply up to 30 days before the actual expiration date.

 

I thought it interesting, and disconcerting, that the head of a provincial immigration office would not be aware of this discontinuance of income

affidavits, from many of the western embassies. This information has been bouncing around for quite a while now. 

 

This same immigration office did ask for supporting documentation from my U.S. bank, when I renewed my retirement extension last June (along with the affidavit from the U.S. embassy). But I only had to show them copies of my U.S. bank statements that I printed offline. It clearly showed my 3 pension deposits and identified them as such on the statements. They added up to exactly the amount on the income affidavit. No problem.

 

Anyway, that's my report from Chanthaburi Immigration.

 

 

[Issanjohn]

9 hours ago, CharlieH said:

A number of OFF TOPIC irrelevant posts removed.

 

Once again, if you dont state your specific I.O. then anything you state is irrelevant to this topic and will be removed.

You don’t want to divulge your personal information such as the city you live in but I understand that you said that you spoke with an IO and want to compare.  Do you want to tell us what IO at which immigration office you spoke with in your city that you live in?  I wouldn’t want to, like I said I don’t want to divulge what city I live in unless I know you a lot better.  

[sometimewoodworker]

The English requirement is for the income to be supported by an affidavit/certificate from the embassy. No affidavit/certificate, no acceptable income.

 

While everyone would like the income into a Thai bank to be sufficient there is no written official guidance on that point possibly because it would be trivial to circumvent it being genuine income and just recycled money. For you in your secret Immigration Office [ {re edit still secret maybe} no longer secret but the comments are still relevant] ( I don't see any need for that as IO's cover hundreds of  thousands of square kilometres I live more tha 50 km from Udon Thani IO that I use) you may be safe using money into a thai bank account. You may also have personal relationships that allow special treatment. Unless and until there is written guidance to that effect that supersedes the current requirement for an embassy's involvement it would be foolish to assume that the income method survives its catch 22.

 

it would be foolhardy to rely on anything other than written English language guidance from either your local IO or head office 

 

I don't know anyone who has got confused about the

money in the bank

or income 

or the 800k or 65k per month retirement 

or the 400k or 40k per month marriage 

 

although if you reed the Udon IO leaflet I posted the confusion is in it because of a mistake in using and not or

Edited November 22, 2018 by sometimewoodworker
Because the IO has now been identified, but the comments still apply -re edit as still secret

[CharlieH]

3 hours ago, Issanjohn said:

You don’t want to divulge your personal information such as the city you live in but I understand that you said that you spoke with an IO and want to compare.  Do you want to tell us what IO at which immigration office you spoke with in your city that you live in?  I wouldn’t want to, like I said I don’t want to divulge what city I live in unless I know you a lot better.  

LOOK at the title of this topic!!

 

If you dont wish to state which I.O. dont participate in this topic.

[a977]

10 hours ago, rumak said:

i already posted this in another related topic.  I believe it explains what information is necessary and relevant to this discussion.  otherwise its just opinions, and more opinions:

 

Try going into TI and asking what their guidelines re: income verification are (in writing would be nice).   Anything else anyone (even the us govt) says will be irrelevant.

Reports of people doing extensions with other than the deposit method (800k or 400k) in the following days/weeks/months will shed some light on the ""guidelines".  Actual and factual experiences will be the only real way to enlighten others .

   Please STATE:  what did you use to "verify" your monthly income ( was it accepted or rejected)....     AND...at.which TI office was this done

 

Why don't we all just take a step back, calm down and wait until the election is over before we all get our tits in a tangle, you never we might have been getting worked up over nothing!!!!!!

[riceyummm]

11 hours ago, slappy said:

I also asked my immigration. (Khon kaen) And the response i got was. No monthly income ONLY lump sum. 

KK is my office. Did they say when that goes int effect because I got my income letter notarized at the Udon Thani outreach and supposedly it's good for six months.

Edited November 22, 2018 by riceyummm