Banker Stupidity - Stupid is as stupid does

TonyClifton · December 1, 2018

We have all heard it, "You have a work permit?" An 80-year-old pensioner can walk into a bank to open an account and that will be the first question from the idiot banker.

I withdraw money from my bank account in America always from Bangkok Bank for free. That's right, I pay 0 fees here or there and I withdraw up to $5000.00 at a time.

I have been refused to open a bank account by the idiots at the bank because they tell me I need a letter from my embassy validating my passport. It's the same passport they just used to hand me 100,000 baht which I just took off my card.

Last night I asked the moron to show me an example of the letter he wants from my embassy. He couldn't produce it. What he did produce was this attachment which outlines in English what Bangkok Bank requires from a foreigner to open a bank account.

After showing said idiot, that I have an O-A visa, and I am a "Person acceptable to Bangkok Bank" which I assume is true since they keep handing me money when I come, he still wouldn't relent.

Use this handout to combat their foolishness. I will call the main branch and speak to someone with authority. I will ask them to call my local Bangkok Bank to tell them to follow their own procedure.

Bangkok Bank Requirements.pdf

Swiss1960 · December 1, 2018

And your attitude is of course most helpful convincing the banker that he wants, no, NEEDS you as his customer...

As has been written here countless times: opening bank accounts means bank and branch shopping, even within the same bank brand, until you find the one to say "yes" to you

Sent from my SM-A730F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

TonyClifton · December 1, 2018

2 minutes ago, Swiss1960 said:

And your attitude is of course most helpful convincing the banker that he wants, no, NEEDS you as his customer..

Perhaps you know something I don't? Why don't you enlighten us?

Bill Miller · December 1, 2018

I am gleefully anticipating similar from K Bank.
I went with my Thai GF to every bank branch at, I think it was Mega. One of the big malls, at any rate. Every single one had the same response about needing a work permit.
All that I have contacted via Internet so far have no such requirement.
K Bank sent me a nice response, bring your passport and 10,000 baht and we will happily open an account for you.
Four years ago I went to several Bangkok Bank branches who refused me.
I finally went to the main branch, where a savings account and ATM card were provided, albeit with a mountain of paperwork.
I think that is the key. ither nobody is trained to do all of that at most branch locations, or there is a deeper strain of laziness than I realized.

Bill Miller · December 1, 2018

On 12/1/2018 at 3:48 PM, Swiss1960 said:

And your attitude is of course most helpful convincing the banker that he wants, no, NEEDS you as his customer...

As has been written here countless times: opening bank accounts means bank and branch shopping, even within the same bank brand, until you find the one to say "yes" to you

Sent from my SM-A730F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

No matter how often you hear, read, etc., some prime bit of stupidity, it is difficult to NOT betimes remark on it.
It used to be that banks were at least consistent in their rules, policies, etc., and those that wanted depositors were fairly consistent with one another, at least such was my experience growing up in the US. Seems not so much, anymore.
Thai banks seem to have not ever gotten around to training their branch employees re: actual bank rules for foreigners.
Just have to accept that Thai bank people, by and large, don't give a toss about non Thai customers, unless they are wealthy, Hiso types, in which case they would not be wasting the valuable phone time of walk-in branch employees, but instead contact somebody who knows somebody, etc.
Business, per se, means <deleted> all. It is much more important to have status, or the appearance, at any rate.

TonyClifton · December 1, 2018

35 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

I am gleefully anticipating similar from K Bank.
I went with my Thai GF to every bank branch at, I think it was Mega. One of the big malls, at any rate. Every single one had the same response about needing a work permit.
All that I have contacted via Internet so far have no such requirement.
K Bank sent me a nice response, bring your passport and 10,000 baht and we will happily open an account for you.
Four years ago I went to several Bangkok Bank branches who refused me.
I finally went to the main branch, where a savings account and ATM card were provided, albeit with a mountain of paperwork.
I think that is the key. ither nobody is trained to do all of that at most branch locations, or there is a deeper strain of laziness than I realized.

Visit Kasikorn in Central Lad Prao. They have been trained.

TonyClifton · December 1, 2018

51 minutes ago, Swiss1960 said:

And your attitude is of course most helpful convincing the banker that he wants, no, NEEDS you as his customer...

How would you know what "attitude" I took with the banker? Were you there? Perhaps you should look up the word "diplomacy." The banker is a low totem pole idiot. I will have a proper discussion with the branch manager.

Bang Bang · December 1, 2018

2 hours ago, TonyClifton said:

The banker is a low totem pole idiot. I will have a proper discussion with the branch manager.

Exactly, a proper one is what you want. Don't take no lip. And get those low totem pole idiots cracking. You're better than any of them, Tony, and you let them know that. Keep them sharp. Tell them farangs suffer so Thais can better themselves but there's just so much a white man can take. Pound that brown-skinned runt's table, Tony, the one that fancies himself a manager, and tell it like it is. You are a hero Tony and don't let nobody tell you otherwise.

Edited December 1, 2018 by Bang Bang

OneEyedPie · December 1, 2018

2 hours ago, TonyClifton said:

I will have a proper discussion with the branch manager.

I've never had to call on the branch manager.

Whatever I ask for at any Bangkok Bank branch I get. I have that certain elan about me which I guess the employees can't resist.

I'd need to personally meet you, Tony, to provide the lifestyle tips that will exponentially increase your chances in branch.

sirineou · December 1, 2018

3 hours ago, TonyClifton said:

Perhaps you know something I don't? Why don't you enlighten us?

It looks to He he just did. "Shop around"

2 hours ago, TonyClifton said:

How would you know what "attitude" I took with the banker? Were you there? Perhaps you should look up the word "diplomacy." The banker is a low totem pole idiot. I will have a proper discussion with the branch manager.

and then you proceed to display the attitude in your last paragraph.

Piece of advise, After you make your point stop talking, anything you say after that can only hurt you!!

37 minutes ago, Bang Bang said:

Exactly, a proper one is what you want. Don't take no lip. And get those low totem pole idiots cracking. You're better than any of them, Tony, and you let them know that. Keep them sharp. Tell them farangs suffer so Thais can better themselves but there's just so much a white man can take. Pound that brown-skinned runt's table, Tony, the one that fancies himself a manager, and tell it like it is. You are a hero Tony and don't let nobody tell you otherwise.

Laughed MY Ass OFF.

Thank you

richard_smith237 · December 1, 2018

2 hours ago, TonyClifton said:

How would you know what "attitude" I took with the banker? Were you there? Perhaps you should look up the word "diplomacy." The banker is a low totem pole idiot. I will have a proper discussion with the branch manager.

Why would the Bank Manager entertain a discussion with you? Why should he?

There is whiff of superiority and healthy dollop of ignorance in your posts on this subject....

Yes, the laws seem stupid, but these are not the decision of the Bank or the staff working there who are simply following the law as they should and are not permitted discretion, in addition to this there are reasons these laws exist which you and I are unable to understand... i.e. pressure from our own countries for the Thai's to implement such regulations.....

Thus, you seem extremely quick to 'fire from the hip'.... but your expectation is that someone bends the rules for you - it is you who is in the wrong here.

As others have said... Shop around, you may find a Bank Employee who is not fully aware of the regulations and you can 'slip on through the red tape'.... And, while you are at it, your chances of a positive outcome are far greater if you drop the superiority act and become likable....

Either that... Or continue to teach them a lesson... they'll learn eventually... don't forget to tell them you can withdraw $5000 in the US, that'll surely impress them into submission !!!????

TonyClifton · December 1, 2018

57 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Why would the Bank Manager entertain a discussion with you? Why should he?

There is whiff of superiority and healthy dollop of ignorance in your posts on this subject....

Quote

Yes, the laws seem stupid

, but these are not the decision of the Bank or the staff working there who are simply following the law as they should and are not permitted discretion, in addition to this there are reasons these laws exist which you and I are unable to understand... i.e. pressure from our own countries for the Thai's to implement such regulations.....

Thus, you seem extremely quick to 'fire from the hip'.... but your expectation is that someone bends the rules for you - it is you who is in the wrong here.

As others have said... Shop around, you may find a Bank Employee who is not fully aware of the regulations and you can 'slip on through the red tape'.... And, while you are at it, your chances of a positive outcome are far greater if you drop the superiority act and become likable....

Either that... Or continue to teach them a lesson... they'll learn eventually... don't forget to tell them you can withdraw $5000 in the US, that'll surely impress them into submission !!!????

5

57 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Out of all the nonsense, idiotic and stupid replies, it's yours that I want to highlight and respond. Why you might ask? The answer is simple. Your response was somewhat well written and well thought out.

It's a shame you're 100 percent wrong. You might have been correct had you read my attachment. You didn't. Isn't that obvious?

You say "the laws seem stupid." I didn't provide any laws. You talk about my expectation of someone "bending the rules for me," but you are wrong again.

What I provided as an attachment was their rules written in English as provided by the bank.

You assumed that I want them to "bend their rules," but in fact I want them to follow their own rules and procedure.

So while you think you may have shown me and put me in my place, you just put yourself out there like a neon sign in the dark as you spouted ignorant statements that weren't true.

I'll give you a chance to redeem yourself. Go read the rules in the attachment and then see if you can still be snarky. Better yet, why not post something useful?

Good luck.

OneEyedPie · December 1, 2018

19 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

Go read the rules in the attachment and then see if you can still be snarky.

But this is Thailand, Tony.

The word rules is and always has been very loosely applied in LOS. The rules are so malleable that they become non-rules and are therefore completely useless. I really wouldn't bother getting so stressed about it and move on to the next branch/bank.

TonyClifton · December 1, 2018

3 minutes ago, OneEyedPie said:

But this is Thailand, Tony.

The word rules is and always has been very loosely applied in LOS. The rules are so malleable that they become non-rules and are therefore completely useless. I really wouldn't bother getting so stressed about it and move on to the next branch/bank.

Rules or laws?

It's up to the individual corporation if they require their employees to follow their rules and policy.

sirineou · December 1, 2018

47 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

You assumed that I want them to "bend their rules," but in fact I want them to follow their own rules and procedure.

Your interpretation of the rules as opposed the clerks interpretation of the rules.

correct me if I am wrong but I think you are hugging your hat on the encircled rule in the PDF "persons acceptable to" and you seem to think that you should be and "acceptable person" because of your ATM transactions (if I understood correctly)

But nowhere does it say that the clerk has that discretion, It sais manager

further more, Using the ATM and opening a bank account are two different things , I am not saying that it is fair, or don't even know if I am entirely correct that they are different, But it seems to me you are upset at the wrong person. The clerk was simply doing his job onder the guidelines available to him, not the ones you wish they had.

I know it is frustrating and you wish to vent, TIT go to a different branch or bank until you find one that is receptive.

And remember Honey catches more flies than vinegar. and try to put yourself in the other person's shoes, How would you react if you were in their situation?

OneEyedPie · December 1, 2018

35 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

Rules or laws?

It's up to the individual corporation if they require their employees to follow their rules and policy.

Good luck with your one man crusade, Tony.

You're so bold and I admire that.

richard_smith237 · December 1, 2018

1 hour ago, TonyClifton said:

Out of all the nonsense, idiotic and stupid replies, it's yours that I want to highlight and respond. Why you might ask? The answer is simple. Your response was somewhat well written and well thought out.

It's a shame you're 100 percent wrong. You might have been correct had you read my attachment. You didn't. Isn't that obvious?

You say "the laws seem stupid." I didn't provide any laws. You talk about my expectation of someone "bending the rules for me," but you are wrong again.

What I provided as an attachment was their rules written in English as provided by the bank.

You assumed that I want them to "bend their rules," but in fact I want them to follow their own rules and procedure.

So while you think you may have shown me and put me in my place, you just put yourself out there like a neon sign in the dark as you spouted ignorant statements that weren't true.

I'll give you a chance to redeem yourself. Go read the rules in the attachment and then see if you can still be snarky. Better yet, why not post something useful?

Good luck.

You needed a letter or sorts, but the photocopy you posted as an attachment is an incredibly vague and flawed translation from Thai into English - It may also be outdated.

In short - everyone knows you need a Work Permit to open a Bank Account in Thailand, or you have to shop around until you find someone sufficiently flexible to permit you to open an account.

This flexibility may come from someone who 'likes' you - thus, approach and attitude can make a huge difference and being confrontational or argumentative will most definitely get you nowhere as the person you are dealing with will close up.

In most cases Bank Staff will just say no because that is the 'rule' they've been told by their fellow employees and / or Manager. The Branch Manager themselves may be reluctant to permit you to open an account for the very same reasons.

It would seem you had none of the 'additional' documentation they required, and, as you pointed out they couldn't give you an example because one probably does not exist.

This doesn't make them stupid, but it highlights how they really don't care if you open an account there or not - they've made their mind up already.

It also highlights how you get upset at small things - forget about that and just accept things work a little differently..... play along and in this case, move along...

Speaking with a manager may help, but anyone who's been here long enough could tell you that this is probably an exercise in futility... its best not to go in there in a confrontational manner, its probably best (for your blood pressure) not to go in there at all and do what everyone has suggested and just try the next bank down the road...

Better still, instead of staring a thread of complaint which gets you nowhere other than a little more irritated as you fall foul of criticism for not understanding how things work here, start a productive thread asking where guys have had success opening an account without a Work Permit - something from which you can move forwards instead of stewing in frustration.

-------------

I had an SCB account and wanted to open another to link to it for security purposes. i.e. one account with a larger sum of money (ATM card kept in the safe) and a second account with a little amount (ATM card carried around with me) which I could top up from my phone App as and when needed....

However, I was no longer on a Work Permit and my request to open a second account was rejected. I tried to point out that its for security purposes and asked how can they imply that I'm not fit to open another account when I have an existing account... Of course, they couldn't answer and I'm sure the staff also considered the rules daft - but they have to follow them or risk loosing their jobs...

All we can do is respect that without getting upset, it's better for us in the long term... there is always another way.

Of course, you have that scan of a piece of paper, and you can use it and try to justify to scores of Bangkok Bank Staff and Bangkok Bank Managers why they should let you open an account, you can use it as evidence and debate with them... But to do this would seem silly when they have already rejected you, in such a situation when they have already said no I'm sure the Bank Staff would consider the Farang who wouldn't accept no for an answer somewhat 'stupid'... at least as stupid as that Farang thought they were....

Or.... you may get lucky with one of them next time round... Its your free time.

Edited December 1, 2018 by richard_smith237

TonyClifton · December 1, 2018

28 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Your interpretation of the rules as opposed the clerks interpretation of the rules.

correct me if I am wrong but I think you are hugging your hat on the encircled rule in the PDF "persons acceptable to" and you seem to think that you should be and "acceptable person" because of your ATM transactions (if I understood correctly)

Incorrect on two fronts. I do cash advances there at least twice a month. They know me. I don't expect the clerk to make that determination. This is why I said I will not waste my time with anyone but the branch manager.

30 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Using the ATM and opening a bank account are two different things

I never use the ATM. It costs money. I do cash advances which cost nothing in the USA and nothing here in Thailand. Cash advances require me to give them my passport. Again, they know me. I am acceptable enough to hand 150,000b in cash based on my passport and my Debit Card from my USA bank..

32 minutes ago, sirineou said:

go to a different branch or bank until you find one that is receptive.

I've been to three already. The last one is convenient for me. My bank account is not limitless so I'll settle for making this branch follow their own banking procedures.

How will I do that? I'll call the main Bangkok Branch Monday and speak with the compliance department. I'll find someone with an appropriate title, explain what I want, and ask them to help me educate their people so they may follow their own rules. Compliance will likely be my best friend in this endeavor.

Honey is fine so long as you're not diabetic. I'll leave my megaphone home for the first or second try.

sirineou · December 1, 2018

3 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

Incorrect on two fronts. I do cash advances there at least twice a month. They know me. I don't expect the clerk to make that determination. This is why I said I will not waste my time with anyone but the branch manager.

but it seems to me you did waste your time with the clerk, whom you call stupid. Or do I misunderstand ? Did you see a bank Manager?

Edited December 1, 2018 by sirineou

TonyClifton · December 1, 2018

11 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

You needed a letter or sorts, but the photocopy you posted as an attachment is an incredibly vague and flawed translation from Thai into English - It may also be outdated.

In short - everyone knows you need a Work Permit to open a Bank Account in Thailand, or you have to shop around until you find someone sufficiently flexible to permit you to open an account.

This flexibility may come from someone who 'likes' you - thus, approach and attitude can make a huge difference and being confrontational or argumentative will most definitely get you nowhere as the person you are dealing with will close up.

In most cases Bank Staff will just say no because that is the 'rule' they've been told by their fellow employees and / or Manager. The Branch Manager themselves may be reluctant to permit you to open an account for the very same reasons.

It would seem you had none of the 'additional' documentation they required, and, as you pointed out they couldn't give you an example because one probably does not exist.

This doesn't make them stupid, but it highlights how they really don't care if you open an account there or not - they've made their mind up already.

It also highlights how you get upset at small things - forget about that and just accept things work a little differently..... play along and in this case, move along...

Speaking with a manager may help, but anyone who's been here long enough could tell you that this is probably an exercise in futility... its best not to go in there in a confrontational manner, its probably best (for your blood pressure) not to go in there at all and do what everyone has suggested and just try the next bank down the road...

Better still, instead of staring a thread of complaint which gets you nowhere other than a little more irritated as you fall foul of criticism for not understanding how things work here, start a productive thread asking where guys have had success opening an account without a Work Permit - something from which you can move forwards instead of stewing in frustration.

-------------

I had an SCB account and wanted to open another to link to it for security purposes. i.e. one account with a larger sum of money (ATM card kept in the safe) and a second account with a little amount (ATM card carried around with me) which I could top up from my phone App as and when needed....

However, I was no longer on a Work Permit and my request to open a second account was rejected. I tried to point out that its for security purposes and asked how can they imply that I'm not fit to open another account when I have an existing account... Of course, they couldn't answer and I'm sure the staff also considered the rules daft - but they have to follow them or risk loosing their jobs...

All we can do is respect that without getting upset, it's better for us in the long term... there is always another way.

Of course, you have that scan of a piece of paper, and you can use it and try to justify to scores of Bangkok Bank Staff and Bangkok Bank Managers why they should let you open an account, you can use it as evidence and debate with them... But to do this would seem silly when they have already rejected you, in such a situation when they have already said no I'm sure the Bank Staff would consider the Farang who wouldn't accept no for an answer somewhat 'stupid'... at least as stupid as that Farang thought they were....

Or.... you may get lucky with one of them next time round... Its your free time.

Sorry, disagree.

Do you suppose a banker will ask the 80-year-old pensioner for a work permit? He would have to be quite an automaton. I have no trouble opening accounts at Thanachart and Kasikorn. They were both happy to open 2 each on my O-A visa.

TonyClifton · December 1, 2018

14 minutes ago, sirineou said:

but it seems to me you did waste your time with the clerk, whom you call stupid. Or do I misunderstand ? Did you see a bank Manager?

I am wasting my time with people here, who either cannot read, cannot comprehend what they have read, or those who have decided to remain purposely obtuse.

In the first post here, I wrote "I withdraw money from my bank account in America always from Bangkok Bank for free. That's right, I pay 0 fees here or there and I withdraw up to $5000.00 at a time."

I had a conversation with the customer service person while transacting my business. That is hardly wasting my time. If anything, I was multitasking.

TonyClifton · December 1, 2018

3 hours ago, OneEyedPie said:

I've never had to call on the branch manager.

Whatever I ask for at any Bangkok Bank branch I get. I have that certain elan about me which I guess the employees can't resist.

I'd need to personally meet you, Tony, to provide the lifestyle tips that will exponentially increase your chances in branch.

You must wear a better cologne. Perhaps you smell like money.

OneEyedPie · December 1, 2018

I'm bringing the stepladder over tonight, Tony. Health and safety and all that while you climb on your high horse.

Ks45672 · December 1, 2018

Just now, TonyClifton said:

You must wear a better cologne. Perhaps you smell like money.

You lost me as soon as you called the Thai guy who refused you a banker lol

He probably knows as much about banking as the staff who sell ice cream down the street... ????

sirineou · December 1, 2018

6 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

I am wasting my time with people here, who either cannot read, cannot comprehend what they have read, or those who have decided to remain purposely obtuse.

In the first post here, I wrote "I withdraw money from my bank account in America always from Bangkok Bank for free. That's right, I pay 0 fees here or there and I withdraw up to $5000.00 at a time."

I had a conversation with the customer service person while transacting my business. That is hardly wasting my time. If anything, I was multitasking.

Is it possible that you are not presenting your case properly?

rather than that everyone is not understanding , purposely or otherwise?

Obviously you don't have ab account there (in Thailand) otherwise you would not be looking for one.You said that you transacted business in the US with Bangkok bank , but US Bangkok is an entirely different entity governed by different rules and regulations, Please correct me if I am wrong, I am not trying to be "obtuse"simply trying to understand, which is what you want as to do.

So how should your transactions in NYC affect your transactions in Bangkok? They are not the same bank, in fact in the US Bank of america in NY is not the same as BOA in Floridas for an example.

Did you see a manger in Thailand? or did you see a manger in NY?

TonyClifton · December 1, 2018

13 minutes ago, Ks45672 said:

You lost me as soon as you called the Thai guy who refused you a banker lol

He probably knows as much about banking as the staff who sell ice cream down the street... ????

Could be. This is a satellite branch so it's hard to tell the difference between customer service people and tellers. I suspect they are all customer service who also act as tellers when they need to.

TonyClifton · December 1, 2018

2 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Obviously you don't have ab account there (in Thailand) otherwise you would not be looking for one

I'm going to assume English is not your first language. I have accounts at Kasikorn and Thanachart. Neither of them do or want to do cash advances. It would be convenient to withdraw large sums of cash and then promptly deposit it into the same bank. Last night I took a sizable sum from Bangkok Bank. I went to eat in the mall and after eating I tried to deposit my cash in the machine at Thanachart. It had no paper for a receipt so I declined. When I went to Kasikorn it wasn't accepting cash.

I had to walk home with a lot of cash. I would have preferred to put it safely in a Bangkok Bank Account.

OneEyedPie · December 1, 2018

8 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

Could be. This is a satellite branch so it's hard to tell the difference between customer service people and tellers. I suspect they are all customer service who also act as tellers when they need to.

You're going soft, Tony.

Ctkong · December 1, 2018

“Better still, instead of staring a thread of complaint which gets you nowhere other than a little more irritated as you fall foul of criticism for not understanding how things work here, start a productive thread asking where guys have had success opening an account without a Work Permit - something from which you can move forwards instead of stewing in frustration. ”

without work permit, with thailand elite visa , one can open bank account ...

Ctkong · December 1, 2018

11 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

I'm going to assume English is not your first language. I have accounts at Kasikorn and Thanachart. Neither of them do or want to do cash advances. It would be convenient to withdraw large sums of cash and then promptly deposit it into the same bank. Last night I took a sizable sum from Bangkok Bank. I went to eat in the mall and after eating I tried to deposit my cash in the machine at Thanachart. It had no paper for a receipt so I declined. When I went to Kasikorn it wasn't accepting cash.

I had to walk home with a lot of cash. I would have preferred to put it safely in a Bangkok Bank Account.

I find that Bangkok bank staff are more rigid with rules than kasikorn bank. And too careful with their procedures too...

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