800k deposit for retirement, using non bank financials ?

[LivinLOS]

I was always under the belief that to qualify this had to be 800k THB in a Thai bank for 2 / 3 months prior to application. 

 

As the investor visas have allowed government bonds I am unsure but thought they may be a second possible deposit source. An onshore non THB amount of greater currency equivalent also possibly ??? 

 

I am being told by someone that he has used >800k in shares shown with a brokerage account statement. I am a little unconvinced he hasnt (possibly without knowing it) gone down the income certification route rather than the 800k deposited route. 

Are any other sources of wealth considered for the 800k deposit system for retirement (and by extension the 400k for marriage) ?? 

 

Obviously seasons bank deposits, but then government bonds ?? Domestic share equity ?? International share equity ?? precious metals storage ?? Etc etc.. 

What meets the 800k definition ?? 

[ubonjoe]

The rules state the funds must be in a Thai bank.

"4. Account  deposited  (saving / fixed account) certificate issued by a bank in Thailand and a copy of a bankbook"

Source: https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

Earning from shares or investments here could be used to meet the income requirements. Proof of tax payments for the income would be required to prove it.

Earnings from outside the country traditionally would have to be proven by a letter from your embassy but that is still up the air at moment.

[DrJack54]

Wack 800k in a Thai bank 3 month before your next extension and be done with it. Then use that money over next # months to live off. Then repeat. 

Edited December 3, 2018 by DrJack54
Error

[LivinLOS]

8 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Wack 800k in a Thai bank 3 month before your next extension and be done with it. Then use that money over next # months to live off. Then repeat. 

That has nothing to do with my question.. And I am a long way from being old enough, looking forward until I can just get the 10 year (2x 5year) and be done with it. 

The issue was I am discussing with someone who claims he has done his 800k deposit route, with a brokerage account statement. I believe that to be impossible. I suspect he may have done it via income and not understood. Based on ubonjoe's answer that seems likely. 

 

[DrJack54]

Very likely...perhaps "money in THAI BANK" should of been underlined.

Like a lot of xpats living here, I would love to just show a verified statement of say my superannuation fund (au) The money is instantly available and its substantial. Point is its not deposited in a Thai bank. 

I'm not even sure how I could use it using the "monthly income method" Think I would need set up monthly stream from that fund into Thai bank account. Costly. 

[LivinLOS]

19 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

I'm not even sure how I could use it using the "monthly income method" Think I would need set up monthly stream from that fund into Thai bank account. Costly. 

 

It used to be very easy... Simply claim to have that much coming in and with varying levels of difficulty / demands for documents, embassy's would issue it. 

For the old Aussie consul on Phuket (Larry) it was a case of buy him a beer and he'd write you the letter, no wonder it has come to an end. 

[DrJack54]

11 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

 

It used to be very easy... Simply claim to have that much coming in and with varying levels of difficulty / demands for documents, embassy's would issue it. 

For the old Aussie consul on Phuket (Larry) it was a case of buy him a beer and he'd write you the letter, no wonder it has come to an end. 

Yes. I have never gone down the monthly income for my annual retirement extension. At first that was my plan. I was back in au and gave me opportunity to gather together all the rentals through agents, super "pension" stream etc.

When returned I found out from friends using this method, that they take nothing to show income. It amounted to stat dec. You state an amount and they provide letter. Guess their attitude is that the applicant is making the SD, the onus of honesty falls upon them. 

Glad I just stuck the 800 in Thai bank. It possibly joining dots too far apart, but I can imagine if Thai imm told the embassies that they must verify the varsity of the "proof the applicant is supplying" they may have said..."we ain't/can't do that so no more letters. OP I realize this is off topic. Maybe I've watched movie conspiracy theory, too many times

Edited December 3, 2018 by DrJack54

[geriatrickid]

2 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

That has nothing to do with my question.. And I am a long way from being old enough, looking forward until I can just get the 10 year (2x 5year) and be done with it. 

The issue was I am discussing with someone who claims he has done his 800k deposit route, with a brokerage account statement. I believe that to be impossible. I suspect he may have done it via income and not understood. Based on ubonjoe's answer that seems likely. 

 

Brokerage accounts can have different characteristics. Some can be cash deposits in money market funds, and others can be stock/mutual fund investments.

 

The best advice anyone can give you is to use common sense.  Convoluted schemes that are used to play the rules, usually cause more grief and expense than they are worth. 

[LivinLOS]

43 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Brokerage accounts can have different characteristics. Some can be cash deposits in money market funds, and others can be stock/mutual fund investments.

I appreciate that, the question is 'can any non thai bank financials qualify' ?? 

I believe not.. I am being told by someone he has used his brokerage account to show his 800k retirement requirement for extension. I would think that is either not possible or a 'rogue officer decision' not standard operating procedure. 

I suspect the person claiming this has mixed up verifying income with verifying 800k in the bank.. And is incorrect in which option he has done. 

[Estrada]

"I am being told by someone that he has used >800k in shares shown with a brokerage account statement. I am a little unconvinced he hasnt (possibly without knowing it) gone down the income certification route rather than the 800k deposited route"....

 

He made this up... I tried this once with a 9 Million Baht investment and the head immigration officer told me that it was unacceptable to use money in a brokerage account, SET etc. "Because you could lose everything over night". He insisted that it be in a Thai Bank, preferably a fixed deposit account so that it is easy for them to check the balance has not dipped during the specified 2 to 3 month period before applying for first or subsequent extensions. They follow the rules.

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, Estrada said:

"I am being told by someone that he has used >800k in shares shown with a brokerage account statement. I am a little unconvinced he hasnt (possibly without knowing it) gone down the income certification route rather than the 800k deposited route"....

 

He made this up... I tried this once with a 9 Million Baht investment and the head immigration officer told me that it was unacceptable to use money in a brokerage account, SET etc. "Because you could lose everything over night". He insisted that it be in a Thai Bank, preferably a fixed deposit account so that it is easy for them to check the balance has not dipped during the specified 2 to 3 month period before applying for first or subsequent extensions. They follow the rules.

Exactly my belief also. 

 

 

[Kerryd]

I have a whack of money in different "long term investment plans" from the bank and I asked if I could use one of those as my "proof of funds" as they all have enough cash in them and it's been there well over the required period.

I was told no as those were considered "investments" and therefore (theoretically) the money wasn't available to live on. 

Immigration expects that the money you have to show is the money you will then use to live on for the next year. Money tied up in long term investments is not considered "available" for day-to-day living expenses and thus can't be used. Obviously, I could cancel the investments and get my cash back (or most of it, depending on how long they've been going) but that's not what you (normally) do with  those kind of investments.

 

They accept money that is held in "Fixed Term" deposits because you can get that money easily (and aren't going to lose a large percentage of it for taking it out before the term is due). I could go close my Fixed Term accounts at the bank in a matter of minutes and use that cash for (whatever) and all I'd lose is the interest for that period.

Not so for money tied up in Stock market accounts, RRSPs, 401k's, T-Bills, Stocks/bonds, etc, etc. Money in those kind of investments is not considered "available" for day to day spending so Immigration won't accept those as proof of having sufficient funds to live on. You're not going to call your broker on Friday and have him sell 20 shares of Google and wire the money to your Thai account so you can pay the rent on Monday.

Just like I can't contact the company that manages my RRSP back home and have them cash it out and send me the money. Even if I just wanted a couple grand to "tide me over", it's not something you can do easily even if you don't care about the tax hit (and exchange rates, transfer fees, etc).
 

[lynchey]

We were told by Hua Hin office that they will only be accepting pension deposits of 65,00 or more. Plus they will ask for your bank statement showing the deposits for the year. No more 800,000 in the bank.

[LivinLOS]

2 minutes ago, lynchey said:

We were told by Hua Hin office that they will only be accepting pension deposits of 65,00 or more. Plus they will ask for your bank statement showing the deposits for the year. No more 800,000 in the bank.

Thats an incorrect interpretation.. 

 

The reversal of the issue of certifying income, now not accepting the deposit.. The joys of Thai immigration. 

[nickmondo]

5 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Wack 800k in a Thai bank 3 month before your next extension and be done with it. Then use that money over next # months to live off. Then repeat. 

if your British, i disagree.

Stick a couple of million in your bank now before the rate plummets even more.

Give yourself 3 or 4 years of enough income, and enough to extend your visa each year.

then hopefully, the mess in the UK will have been sorted out.

thats what i am doing, and if the rate goes down to mid 30's or below, as some experts are predicting, then I will be naffing off back to Spain.

[LivinLOS]

 

if your British, i disagree.

Stick a couple of million in your bank now before the rate plummets even more.

Give yourself 3 or 4 years of enough income, and enough to extend your visa each year.

then hopefully, the mess in the UK will have been sorted out.

thats what i am doing, and if the rate goes down to mid 30's or below, as some experts are predicting, then I will be naffing off back to Spain.

Just because your british doesnt mean you need to hold GBP. 

[Thingamabob]

 

Wack 800k in a Thai bank 3 month before your next extension and be done with it. Then use that money over next # months to live off. Then repeat. 

Excellent. 

[Thaidye]

Thank you ubonjoe for the link to the current Immigration policy. Source: https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

 

My question is regarding subsection 4:

"(4) On the filing date, the applicant must have account deposited  (saving / fixed account) in a bank in Thailand of no less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must have proof of a deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no less than 60 days prior to the filing date; or...."

 

My question is concerning what are the measurements/restrictions imposed by the Immigration Bureau as described with this new policy? Specifically, the text states; "...the first year only...". Does this mean that we as (Visa Renewal applicants) have a 9-10 month period to conform to the 60 day Thai Bank deposit requirement? (since this new policy was introduced approx. November 10) or does the requirement of 90 days of 800k in a Thai bank for a RENEWAL Visa apply?

 

If anyone can provide some guidance/clarity on this issue it would be appreciated.

 

[Suradit69]

 

It possibly joining dots too far apart, but I can imagine if Thai imm told the embassies that they must verify the varsity of the "proof the applicant is supplying" they may have said..."we ain't/can't do that so no more letters. OP I realize this is off topic. Maybe I've watched movie conspiracy theory, too many times

"...they must verify the varsity of the "proof..."

 

"Maybe I've watched movie conspiracy theory, too many times"

 

And obviously not read the 1001 posts on the topic of embassy income "varsity??"  here at TV which would have relieved you of the need to imagine what happened.

[ubonjoe]

 

Thank you ubonjoe for the link to the current Immigration policy. Source: https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

 

My question is regarding subsection 4:

"(4) On the filing date, the applicant must have account deposited  (saving / fixed account) in a bank in Thailand of no less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must have proof of a deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no less than 60 days prior to the filing date; or...."

 

My question is concerning what are the measurements/restrictions imposed by the Immigration Bureau as described with this new policy? Specifically, the text states; "...the first year only...". Does this mean that we as (Visa Renewal applicants) have a 9-10 month period to conform to the 60 day Thai Bank deposit requirement? (since this new policy was introduced approx. November 10) or does the requirement of 90 days of 800k in a Thai bank for a RENEWAL Visa apply?

 

If anyone can provide some guidance/clarity on this issue it would be appreciated.

 

It is nothing new. It has been in the police orders since 2008.

You are misreading what states. I will say though that it is poorly written.

What it is meant to state is that for first extension of stay the 800k baht only has to be in the bank for 60 days. For the 2nd extension and onwards it has to be in the bank for 3 months.

[4MyEgo]

 

Yes. I have never gone down the monthly income for my annual retirement extension. At first that was my plan. I was back in au and gave me opportunity to gather together all the rentals through agents, super "pension" stream etc.

When returned I found out from friends using this method, that they take nothing to show income. It amounted to stat dec. You state an amount and they provide letter. Guess their attitude is that the applicant is making the SD, the onus of honesty falls upon them. 

Glad I just stuck the 800 in Thai bank. It possibly joining dots too far apart, but I can imagine if Thai imm told the embassies that they must verify the varsity of the "proof the applicant is supplying" they may have said..."we ain't/can't do that so no more letters. OP I realize this is off topic. Maybe I've watched movie conspiracy theory, too many times

I have always put funds in my account 3 months before the extension is due, i.e. funds to equal 12 x my monthly budget and make sure I have enough to meet the criteria come application day, that said, it's the simplest way to do things for me and if I require extra $'s I just use Transferwise and it's in my account the next day or 2 at the most.

 

The embassies must be spewing because I heard that they charged up to 3,000 baht per stat dec depending on the embassy, now times that by so many xpats and they were laughing all the way to the bank, not now and they will obviously have to make up for that loss by upping charges for other things now the Thai's won't accept the stat decs, because the embassies cannot verify what the person in the application is stating is true, suffice to say this is probably why they don't have stat decs or JP's in Thailand, only Notary's and they charge upwards of 1,500 per document, funny thing is, the Notary is usually a lawyer and the Haig convention doesn't recognise them for signing legal documents under that convention, although some banks, and other organisations around the world wouldn't know the difference and accept the Notary's signature, stamp etc etc, I found this out when I had to get a document certified, suffice to say, fortunately I have a mate back in Oz who is a JP who has know me for over a decade and certified the document that I required via email, not the way to really do it, but hey when you got to take short cuts, you got to take short cuts oi.

[DrJack54]

 

I have always put funds in my account 3 months before the extension is due, i.e. funds to equal 12 x my monthly budget and make sure I have enough to meet the criteria come application day, that said, it's the simplest way to do things for me and if I require extra $'s I just use Transferwise and it's in my account the next day or 2 at the most.

 

The embassies must be spewing because I heard that they charged up to 3,000 baht per stat dec depending on the embassy, now times that by so many xpats and they were laughing all the way to the bank, not now and they will obviously have to make up for that loss by upping charges for other things now the Thai's won't accept the stat decs, because the embassies cannot verify what the person in the application is stating is true, suffice to say this is probably why they don't have stat decs or JP's in Thailand, only Notary's and they charge upwards of 1,500 per document, funny thing is, the Notary is usually a lawyer and the Haig convention doesn't recognise them for signing legal documents under that convention, although some banks, and other organisations around the world wouldn't know the difference and accept the Notary's signature, stamp etc etc, I found this out when I had to get a document certified, suffice to say, fortunately I have a mate back in Oz who is a JP who has know me for over a decade and certified the document that I required via email, not the way to really do it, but hey when you got to take short cuts, you got to take short cuts oi.

This brings back sad/funny memory re JP. Prior to my path down non o (obtained in Vientiane), I was in au and applied for A-O. Had my docs certified by JP. It was rejected (they refunded application fee). I rang Canberra embassy and final got up the food chain to nice lady. 

When I explained that the website allowed for JP certification, she replied " yes but some io not like accept JP". I love Thai crap. Just smile and I accepted.

[4MyEgo]

 

This brings back sad/funny memory re JP. Prior to my path down non o (obtained in Vientiane), I was in au and applied for A-O. Had my docs certified by JP. It was rejected (they refunded application fee). I rang Canberra embassy and final got up the food chain to nice lady. 

When I explained that the website allowed for JP certification, she replied " yes but some io not like accept JP". I love Thai crap. Just smile and I accepted.

Yes Thai's wouldn't have a clue what a JP is and when you try to explain, they smile and say, Notary handing back your papers, as you say, just smile and accept that they have their ways, but I cannot believe the amount of papers they love to have, think of all those trees that are being cut down, or was that being burnt down, $hit better go and close the windows as I smell smoke again ????

 

[MyFriend You]

 

Wack 800k in a Thai bank 3 month before your next extension and be done with it. Then use that money over next # months to live off. Then repeat. 

That is the way to do it, show you have varied incomes and always at least  800K when needed for an extension........I think they prefer to see activity.

[DrJack54]

 

That is the way to do it, show you have varied incomes and always at least  800K when needed for an extension........I think they prefer to see activity.

Umm, think we are on different page. The 800k deposit in Thai bank for min 3 months, has nothing to do with activity. They want to see activity on day of extension. Deposit  ie 100baht. Think your referring to "income method". They don't need to see " varied incomes" 

[MyFriend You]

 

Umm, think we are on different page. The 800k deposit in Thai bank for min 3 months, has nothing to do with activity. They want to see activity on day of extension. Deposit  ie 100baht. Think your referring to "income method". They don't need to see " varied incomes" 

Thanx for clarification, I am going for my first Retirement Visa on this next trip back 'home'.......in any event, I never have less than 2 mill in my accounts, and a steady monthly deposit in another back acct.  We shall see, I am not married to a Thai, just like living in Thailand.

[DrJack54]

 

Thanx for clarification, I am going for my first Retirement Visa on this next trip back 'home'.......in any event, I never have less than 2 mill in my accounts, and a steady monthly deposit in another back acct.  We shall see, I am not married to a Thai, just like living in Thailand.

Where is "back home" You might like to obtain a non o-a. That's a nice visa as includes multiple entries. Great if you want travel around Asia etc. Sounds like your moving here. Best thing I ever done. Cheers

Edited December 3, 2018 by DrJack54
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