Britain can end Brexit unilaterally, EU court advisor says

[Basil B]

41 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Calling a manipulated vote “Democratic” says a lot about the mindset of the Brexit gangsters. 

Note how the Brexiteers call a re run of the referendum undemocratic, they know the opinion of the country has changed and are scared of a re run of the referendum, they pulled it on a lot of false truths by a slim majority, re run the referendum the result will be a clear majority.   

[vinny41]

27 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Note how the Brexiteers call a re run of the referendum undemocratic, they know the opinion of the country has changed and are scared of a re run of the referendum, they pulled it on a lot of false truths by a slim majority, re run the referendum the result will be a clear majority.   

Incorrect and not true according to the results of this recent poll

Only 20% Back Second Referendum if Deal Voted Down

Remainers went all People’s Vote of Judea on each other this morning, with People’s Vote hilariously attacking the Lib Dems for tabling a “deeply unhelpful” second referendum amendment, accusing them of “political point scoring” and whinging about it being “deeply unfair”. Snigger…

The latest polling from IpsosMORI won’t have made Anna Soubry’s birthday any better either. While over six in ten Brits (62%) think May’s deal will be “bad for the UK as a whole” with only 25% believing it will be good, there is no clear support for a second referendum or cancelling Brexit either if the deal is voted down:

Only 20% of people are in favour of a second referendum on leaving the EU altogether, while the same number would back leaving without a deal at all. A mere 10% back Labour’s preferred option of a general election, while a further 10% would back a referendum on whether or not to accept the deal itself.

The most likely outcomes, that the Government either seeks to reopen negotiations with the EU or a second vote in Parliament is held on substantially the same deal, are also pretty low-scoring, notching up only 19% and 6% support each. The bottom line is that we are in unchartered waters – nobody knows what is going to happen, but it is simply not true for Remainers to claim that there is a clear majority for a second referendum on leaving the EU…

https://order-order.com/2018/12/07/2...um-deal-voted/


https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-...ld-happen-next

[bomber]

2 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

Shambles it is. Organized by our remain supporting P.M. who lied on numerous occasions to implement the Democratic vote of the people, in their desire to exit the hated E.u.

 

 

What hated EU,in40+ years i still cannot think of anything they have done that has affected my life for the worse,who are these folks who supposedly hate the EU,they wouldnt be baldy,fat tattoo'd slobs who drink in spoonies and think england will win the next world cup and euro's would they.

[Basil B]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

Incorrect and not true according to the results of this recent poll

Only 20% Back Second Referendum if Deal Voted Down

Remainers went all People’s Vote of Judea on each other this morning, with People’s Vote hilariously attacking the Lib Dems for tabling a “deeply unhelpful” second referendum amendment, accusing them of “political point scoring” and whinging about it being “deeply unfair”. Snigger…

The latest polling from IpsosMORI won’t have made Anna Soubry’s birthday any better either. While over six in ten Brits (62%) think May’s deal will be “bad for the UK as a whole” with only 25% believing it will be good, there is no clear support for a second referendum or cancelling Brexit either if the deal is voted down:

Only 20% of people are in favour of a second referendum on leaving the EU altogether, while the same number would back leaving without a deal at all. A mere 10% back Labour’s preferred option of a general election, while a further 10% would back a referendum on whether or not to accept the deal itself.

The most likely outcomes, that the Government either seeks to reopen negotiations with the EU or a second vote in Parliament is held on substantially the same deal, are also pretty low-scoring, notching up only 19% and 6% support each. The bottom line is that we are in unchartered waters – nobody knows what is going to happen, but it is simply not true for Remainers to claim that there is a clear majority for a second referendum on leaving the EU…

https://order-order.com/2018/12/07/2...um-deal-voted/


https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-...ld-happen-next

First link is a fake news site

Second link does not work

 

whodo you think you are kidding???

[bomber]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

Incorrect and not true according to the results of this recent poll

Only 20% Back Second Referendum if Deal Voted Down

Remainers went all People’s Vote of Judea on each other this morning, with People’s Vote hilariously attacking the Lib Dems for tabling a “deeply unhelpful” second referendum amendment, accusing them of “political point scoring” and whinging about it being “deeply unfair”. Snigger…

The latest polling from IpsosMORI won’t have made Anna Soubry’s birthday any better either. While over six in ten Brits (62%) think May’s deal will be “bad for the UK as a whole” with only 25% believing it will be good, there is no clear support for a second referendum or cancelling Brexit either if the deal is voted down:

Only 20% of people are in favour of a second referendum on leaving the EU altogether, while the same number would back leaving without a deal at all. A mere 10% back Labour’s preferred option of a general election, while a further 10% would back a referendum on whether or not to accept the deal itself.

The most likely outcomes, that the Government either seeks to reopen negotiations with the EU or a second vote in Parliament is held on substantially the same deal, are also pretty low-scoring, notching up only 19% and 6% support each. The bottom line is that we are in unchartered waters – nobody knows what is going to happen, but it is simply not true for Remainers to claim that there is a clear majority for a second referendum on leaving the EU…

https://order-order.com/2018/12/07/2...um-deal-voted/


https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-...ld-happen-next

i hugely doubt that 20% figure.

[vinny41]

9 minutes ago, bomber said:

i hugely doubt that 20% figure.

If you doubt the 20% figure your welcome to post a poll that supports your view

[vinny41]

12 minutes ago, Basil B said:

First link is a fake news site

Second link does not work

 

whodo you think you are kidding???

Both links are working fine

https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/six-ten-think-withdrawal-deal-would-be-bad-uk-public-cant-agree-what-should-happen-next

https://order-order.com/2018/12/07/20-back-second-referendum-deal-voted/

 

And order order has been around since 2004 and is not a fake site

Have you posted anything that supports your viewpoint 

[welovesundaysatspace]

7 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Both links are working fine

https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/six-ten-think-withdrawal-deal-would-be-bad-uk-public-cant-agree-what-should-happen-next

https://order-order.com/2018/12/07/20-back-second-referendum-deal-voted/

 

And order order has been around since 2004 and is not a fake site

Have you posted anything that supports your viewpoint 

Is that that blog of that Guido dude that looks like my little nephew created it with the first version of Microsoft Frontpage? Very credible source. 

 

And the original statement wasn’t even about how many people would back a second, not-manipulated referendum. The statement was that people would largely vote remain now as they don’t have to rely on lies and false promises anymore. 

 

“The data from pollsters BMG Research reveals support for remaining has grown month by month since the summer, and broke past 50 per cent in December as the complex realities of Brexit were brought home to the country. ”

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-theresa-may-uk-vote-economy-mps-remain-a8673926.html

 

Of course that’s something you don’t realize if you get your information from fake news blogs. 

[bomber]

3 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

If you doubt the 20% figure your welcome to post a poll that supports your view

i see the growth figures were published today much better reading than dubious polls but with all the chaos they barely got a mention and the economy has just about stopped growing,brexit will send it in reserve,inflation and jobless will rise,big question is will the BoE raise interest rates to prop up the pound when it totally collapses.

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Is that that blog of that Guido dude that looks like my little nephew created it with the first version of Microsoft Frontpage? Very credible source. 

Each to their own for webpage design but still not a fake site as some remainers on here claim it is 

next you be claiming ipos is a fake polling company even through it provides tables and charts I yet to see any poll that supports a  Second Referendum provided the same amount of details so are all those polls fake as well

[vinny41]

9 minutes ago, bomber said:

i see the growth figures were published today much better reading than dubious polls but with all the chaos they barely got a mention and the economy has just about stopped growing,brexit will send it in reserve,inflation and jobless will rise,big question is will the BoE raise interest rates to prop up the pound when it totally collapses.

And yet again you haven't provide any links to support  your post

[Basil B]

3 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Both links are working fine

https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/six-ten-think-withdrawal-deal-would-be-bad-uk-public-cant-agree-what-should-happen-next

https://order-order.com/2018/12/07/20-back-second-referendum-deal-voted/

 

And order order has been around since 2004 and is not a fake site

Have you posted anything that supports your viewpoint 

That Ipsos link was not the link you posted...

 

Have a look at this one:

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/

[vinny41]

21 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Is that that blog of that Guido dude that looks like my little nephew created it with the first version of Microsoft Frontpage? Very credible source. 

 

And the original statement wasn’t even about how many people would back a second, not-manipulated referendum. The statement was that people would largely vote remain now as they don’t have to rely on lies and false promises anymore. 

 

“The data from pollsters BMG Research reveals support for remaining has grown month by month since the summer, and broke past 50 per cent in December as the complex realities of Brexit were brought home to the country. ”

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-theresa-may-uk-vote-economy-mps-remain-a8673926.html

 

Of course that’s something you don’t realize if you get your information from fake news blogs. 

Its funny when you read the BMG research statement without the spin 

The poll of 1,508 adults conducted between 4^th and 7^th December asked respondents: “Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?” (identical to the question that appeared on the ballot paper for the 2016 EU referendum).

 

While it is tempting to conclude from these results that Remain are ‘way out in front’, readers should be cautious with how they interpret this poll. This is for three main reasons which we take in turn:

The poll, does not account for voters who are not eligible, nor registered to vote. Detailed research from the Electoral Commission shows that only five out of every six adults (~84%) who are eligible tovote are actually registered. Also, a small but significant proportion of the UK adult population are actually ineligible to vote at UK General Elections and the EU Referendum (as it was in 2016). Indeed, according to statistics released by the Office for National Statistics on 29^th November 2018, an estimated 5.1% of the UK population (~3,276,000 

Also, this poll cannot be used to evidence support for another referendum on EU membership. The wording does not address this question directly, and it is perfectly plausible that many voters will suggest that they have not chaged their mind, and would vote a particular way if there was another referendum today, but at the same time is expecting the government to get on with Brexit.

https://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/independent-poll-dec-18-brexit/

[vinny41]

2 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Incorrect and not true according to the results of this recent poll

Only 20% Back Second Referendum if Deal Voted Down

Remainers went all People’s Vote of Judea on each other this morning, with People’s Vote hilariously attacking the Lib Dems for tabling a “deeply unhelpful” second referendum amendment, accusing them of “political point scoring” and whinging about it being “deeply unfair”. Snigger…

The latest polling from IpsosMORI won’t have made Anna Soubry’s birthday any better either. While over six in ten Brits (62%) think May’s deal will be “bad for the UK as a whole” with only 25% believing it will be good, there is no clear support for a second referendum or cancelling Brexit either if the deal is voted down:

Only 20% of people are in favour of a second referendum on leaving the EU altogether, while the same number would back leaving without a deal at all. A mere 10% back Labour’s preferred option of a general election, while a further 10% would back a referendum on whether or not to accept the deal itself.

The most likely outcomes, that the Government either seeks to reopen negotiations with the EU or a second vote in Parliament is held on substantially the same deal, are also pretty low-scoring, notching up only 19% and 6% support each. The bottom line is that we are in unchartered waters – nobody knows what is going to happen, but it is simply not true for Remainers to claim that there is a clear majority for a second referendum on leaving the EU…

https://order-order.com/2018/12/07/2...um-deal-voted/


https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-...ld-happen-next

 

22 minutes ago, Basil B said:

That Ipsos link was not the link you posted...

 

Have a look at this one:

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/

Yes it was the same ipos link and it is working if it doesn't work in your browser that your own issue to resolved 

[tebee]

 

[vogie]

15 minutes ago, tebee said:

 

 

[malagateddy]

Calling a manipulated vote “Democratic” says a lot about the mindset of the Brexit gangsters. 

"Gangsters"..surely you're talking bout likes of Soros..Blair the imo war criminal..and likes of Drunkard..Barnier etc etc

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[My Thai Life]

So, the ECJ has confirmed that A50 can be unilaterally withdrawn.

 

The ECJ came to this judgement in a matter of weeks, rather than the average 2 years.

 

This is clear evidence of the political nature of the ECJ.

 

The ECJ is there to further EU goals, not to provide independent judiciary. The EU's goal being to prevent the UK from leaving.

 

But the EU has shot itself in the foot. By coming to this judgement, the ECJ allows A50 to be used as a political tool by dissident EU countries to create chaos within the EU by issuing A50 and rescinding, apparently without limit. And let's face it, there is an ever increasing number of dissident countries.

 

And the UK won't be rescinding A50 anyway.

 

 

[damascase]

26 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

So, the ECJ has confirmed that A50 can be unilaterally withdrawn.

 

The ECJ came to this judgement in a matter of weeks, rather than the average 2 years.

 

This is clear evidence of the political nature of the ECJ.

 

The ECJ is there to further EU goals, not to provide independent judiciary. The EU's goal being to prevent the UK from leaving.

 

But the EU has shot itself in the foot. By coming to this judgement, the ECJ allows A50 to be used as a political tool by dissident EU countries to create chaos within the EU by issuing A50 and rescinding, apparently without limit. And let's face it, there is an ever increasing number of dissident countries.

 

And the UK won't be rescinding A50 anyway.

 

 

You ‘forget’ to mention that the ruling of the ECJ is the opposite of the EU position in this case..........

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, damascase said:

You ‘forget’ to mention that the ruling of the ECJ is the opposite of the EU position in this case..........

Disagree. The ECJ decision is the latest move to support the EU position, in that it never wanted the UK to leave. This ruling emerges one day before the proposed "meaningful vote" - amazing timing? - I don't think so! This decision formally confirms an easy and direct pathway for the UK to simply remain, that had been barely discussed before.

 

The UK is in a mess now largely because this whole exit process has been fouled up by Theresa May, who is so obviously pro remain and so incompetent as a "leader" that the government and Parliament are split into several tired pieces. Now I'm sure the PM is not a complete dunce, so I have to assume that at least some of this incompetence has to be fake. But the splits and time constraints are resulting in more and more nervousness (wobbliness if you like).

 

The EU can see this wobbliness and might hope that further continuation of this farce will lead to a total collapse of government, a second vote or some event that will result in the turnover of the referendum result. By offering this route, the EU might expect that mass wobbliness (especially if at last-minute) will cause a majority of the UK MP's to lose their collective bottles and demand a vote to revoke Article 50 and stay in the EU. I'm sure that the EU would love to show its compassion" to the world as it forgives the UK and welcomes us back with open arms (well tentacles).

 

But as far as I'm concerned it's the latest episode of the Project Fear saga.

 

 

 

[7by7]

The EU has offered nothing; this is a legal ruling by the ECJ.

 

The ECJ ruling means that legally we can simply withdraw our notice to leave and remain in the EU under exactly the same conditions as before. 

 

That is we will still have our rebate, will still keep the pound and still not be part of Schengen.

 

The decision to do so is entirely up to us provided it is done by what the court calls 'democratic means.' That is either by Parliament voting for it or another referendum reversing the decision of the previous one.

 

Whether either of those will happen is unlikely; at least not as long as May remains PM.

 

 

[tebee]

7 hours ago, vogie said:

 

Indeed it's not impossible to leave the EU, just like it's not impossible to build that submarine out of cheese. But living in/with you'r handiwork afterwards is not that comfortable, so indeed, people do not want to do it.

 

  

 

[nauseus]

16 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

The EU has offered nothing; this is a legal ruling by the ECJ.

 

The ECJ ruling means that legally we can simply withdraw our notice to leave and remain in the EU under exactly the same conditions as before. 

 

That is we will still have our rebate, will still keep the pound and still not be part of Schengen.

 

The decision to do so is entirely up to us provided it is done by what the court calls 'democratic means.' That is either by Parliament voting for it or another referendum reversing the decision of the previous one.

 

Whether either of those will happen is unlikely; at least not as long as May remains PM.

 

 

And what is the reason for the existence of the ECJ?

[tebee]

 

[7by7]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

And what is the reason for the existence of the ECJ?

Just as the Supreme Court in the UK is the highest court in the land for UK legal matters, the ECJ is the highest court in the EU for EU legal matters. 

 

Here in the UK, if the matter in dispute is a matter of EU law then once all UK legal paths have been exhausted, up to and including the Supreme Court, then leave may be given by the Supreme Court to take the case to the ECJ.

 

[damascase]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Disagree. The ECJ decision is the latest move to support the EU position, in that it never wanted the UK to leave. This ruling emerges one day before the proposed "meaningful vote" - amazing timing? - I don't think so! This decision formally confirms an easy and direct pathway for the UK to simply remain, that had been barely discussed before.

 

The UK is in a mess now largely because this whole exit process has been fouled up by Theresa May, who is so obviously pro remain and so incompetent as a "leader" that the government and Parliament are split into several tired pieces. Now I'm sure the PM is not a complete dunce, so I have to assume that at least some of this incompetence has to be fake. But the splits and time constraints are resulting in more and more nervousness (wobbliness if you like).

 

The EU can see this wobbliness and might hope that further continuation of this farce will lead to a total collapse of government, a second vote or some event that will result in the turnover of the referendum result. By offering this route, the EU might expect that mass wobbliness (especially if at last-minute) will cause a majority of the UK MP's to lose their collective bottles and demand a vote to revoke Article 50 and stay in the EU. I'm sure that the EU would love to show its compassion" to the world as it forgives the UK and welcomes us back with open arms (well tentacles).

 

But as far as I'm concerned it's the latest episode of the Project Fear saga.

 

 

 

‘Disagree’, you say. Of course you are allowed to ignore the fact that the ECJ’s preliminary ruling on the interpretation of Art. 50 did not follow the EU’s position, when this suits you........

[j8k]

Who care anyway. Britain is buggered, the EU is as well. Asia is the future.

[tebee]

 

[SheungWan]

8 hours ago, malagateddy said:

"Gangsters"..surely you're talking bout likes of Soros..Blair the imo war criminal..and likes of Drunkard..Barnier etc etc

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

For the Conspiracy Theory Crowd that 'etc etc' list goes on and on and on as far as Enemies Of The People are concerned. But Putin is not on it.

[cleopatra2]

9 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Just as the Supreme Court in the UK is the highest court in the land for UK legal matters, the ECJ is the highest court in the EU for EU legal matters. 

 

Here in the UK, if the matter in dispute is a matter of EU law then once all UK legal paths have been exhausted, up to and including the Supreme Court, then leave may be given by the Supreme Court to take the case to the ECJ.

 

This is not correct

 

The UK supreme court Q & A provides a succinct explanation.

"

'Can the European Court of Human Rights or the Court of Justice of the European Union overrule the UKSC?

No. However, when making decisions, the UKSC must give effect to the rights contained in the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) as contained in the Human Rights Act 1998.

The UKSC must also give effect to directly applicable European Union law, and interpret domestic law consistently with European Union law, so far as is possible. '

https://www.supremecourt.uk/faqs.html#1g

 

It should be noted that the Scottish Court requested an expedient judgement from the CJEU , so as to ensure that any judgement would remain valid.