Move to make health insurance mandatory for long-stay visas

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, Felt 35 said:

22 hours ago, JackThompson said:

...

Insurance was included in the other longer-stay visa - the "OX" - but not the Elite, so I suspect this is unlikely to change.  And, yes, that does make it more "attractive" - which could be a motivating factor.  But, for now at least, the insurance requirement is only proposed for Non-OA 1-Year ME Visas.

I understand..... the holder of other Visas never need medical treatment ???????? ????

Not saying that at all - only that it was not what was proposed per the article. 

 

I think every foreigner who enters the country should require "stabilize and send-home" coverage - eliminating Thailand's potential risk at a very small cost per/mo.  But anything beyond that (outpatient, long-term care, etc) should be up to the individual, based on if they wanted to receive ongoing care in Thailand, and could afford it.

Edited December 26, 2018 by JackThompson

[motoguzzibob]

Hi Darksidedog.

There are Thai policies which cover this requirement for a few thousand baht and they have to offer cover to people up to 100 years of age, so no worries on the too old bit.years old get insurance in Thailand.

Where/ how can a person of 99 (OK, younger!), get insurance of this nature? Please include full details including website, contact email/ tel, address. Is this acceptable to/ for the new ruling?

By the way, I thought they had already discussed tourists/ holidaymakers.

[mommysboy]

On 12/23/2018 at 9:05 PM, Longcut said:

What happens when you are too old to obtain insurance?

I guess you really know the answer to that one!

[SheungWan]

6 hours ago, dcnx said:

You are prepared to be starved to death into you die for the privilege of living here?

Youre either feeding an addiction or have no self worth whatsoever. It’s tragic either way. 

That’s a horrible way to go and is totally unnecessary when there are so many other options available.

Its certainly horrible not having access to Pret A Manger sandwiches.

[moogradod]

If they make the insurance mandatory then they should make it mandatory for the insurance companies to insure anybody (regardless of age or preexisting conditions) as well.

 

This is exactly how it works in Switzerland. Worth reflecting what the difference is.

[motoguzzibob]

On 12/24/2018 at 3:52 AM, Jumbo1968 said:

I am from the U.K. if I want Health or Travel Insurance I have to have been resident in the U.K. for 6 months and that applies for the annual renewals as well.

Nationwide have a Flex Plus account which for £12 pm + £65 if you're over 70 - just introduced, (was 75). It covers you anywhere in the world (surprisingly, even the USA) for 30 days. If you want longer, then pay £1 per day. Although there is a limit of 180 days/6 months. It's for any single one trip outside the UK. If you return within 180 days and go through UK immigration, you can then go off again. I asked about this several times in different ways and told them that I was recording the information. As with any insurance, you are highly unlikely to be covered for pre-existing conditions (Over 75 needs medical screening).

I hasten to add, there are some expats who don't rate this, but apart from one who had a bypass operation, I wasn't given a reason, unless they found cheaper and only go away for 6 months a year. Maybe one of you can explain? 

Also, I get the impression that they will be soon making it more difficult/ impossible for new applicants over 70. 

I have heard that some Thai ones, like Bangkok bank, you need to start before you're 60. 

[kannot]

8 hours ago, dcnx said:

You are prepared to be starved to death into you die for the privilege of living here?

 

Youre either feeding an addiction or have no self worth whatsoever. It’s tragic either way. 

 

That’s a horrible way to go and is totally unnecessary when there are so many other options available.

my  choice, you have yours.

[dcnx]

6 minutes ago, kannot said:

my  choice, you have yours.

This is true. Someone has to jump from the balcony. 

[JimmyJ]

Thailand is not the only country where it is important to have health insurance before visiting.

 

I came across this comment today:

 

"Most surreal thing in Canada is all the ads urging Canadians to buy special health insurance before visiting the U.S. so they don’t risk bankruptcy."

[malagateddy]

If and when the powers that be announce specific details..I'm quite sure that there will be plenty info imput by some of the regular users of this forum regarding the " way forward ".
Relax and enjoy your life..remember..we are only here the once...

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[salavan]

On 12/24/2018 at 1:21 PM, simon43 said:

 

 

 

I am 60 in a few months.  I have a $1 million USD annual cover 'expat' medical insurance policy with a British company (so under UK insurance rules). 60,000 baht excess. I have no preconditions and I pay just under 30,000 baht a year for the premium.

what british insurance company is that can you pm me

[simon43]

what british insurance company is that can you pm me

 

I'll put it in open forum for everyone's benefit ????

 

I am insured with HCI - Health Care International.

 

Prior to taking out insurance with them, I read numerous reviews about their reputation etc.  The general conclusion is that they are about second place in reputation after Cigna International.  I have a $2,000 excess and the policy also provides emergency medical evacuation cover (which was really only important when I previously worked in Myanmar).

 

 

[Bo Lindblad]

On 12/23/2018 at 9:49 PM, darksidedog said:

This is for those on O-A visa. It does not  impact those on retirement extensions, although any with sense will have some form of insurance anyway. We have all seen people getting hurt and having to go fund me to pay their bills. The big question is how long before they start focusing on the tourists and insisting they have some insurance too. There are Thai policies which cover this requirement for a few thousand baht and they have to offer cover to people up to 100 years of age, so no worries on the too old bit.

Those "couple of thousand bath" polycies with thai insurancecompanies seems to be hard to find. Do you have any tips?

[Advocate]

This is another rip-off which will make Thailand less attractive to expats.

 

It is normal human behavior that people who are healthy don't want to buy health insurance to enrich others. It's only people who are sick who need such insurance and Thailand should refuse visas to people who are sick and can't afford the medical costs. Healthy expats should not be extorted to finance sick expats.

 

I have paid all my own medical costs over ten years without being compelled to buy rip-off medical insurance.

 

The corruption in Thailand will ensure that a corrupt scheme will emerge to fill the need of those that don't want insurance because they are healthy.

[Peasandmash]

The days when a poor, old, retired, single man could move to Thailand with nothing and live like a hobo King will be over just as marijuana is legalized.

[Jumbo1968]

15 hours ago, motoguzzibob said:

Nationwide have a Flex Plus account which for £12 pm + £65 if you're over 70 - just introduced, (was 75). It covers you anywhere in the world (surprisingly, even the USA) for 30 days. If you want longer, then pay £1 per day. Although there is a limit of 180 days/6 months. It's for any single one trip outside the UK. If you return within 180 days and go through UK immigration, you can then go off again. I asked about this several times in different ways and told them that I was recording the information. As with any insurance, you are highly unlikely to be covered for pre-existing conditions (Over 75 needs medical screening).

I hasten to add, there are some expats who don't rate this, but apart from one who had a bypass operation, I wasn't given a reason, unless they found cheaper and only go away for 6 months a year. Maybe one of you can explain? 

Also, I get the impression that they will be soon making it more difficult/ impossible for new applicants over 70. 

I have heard that some Thai ones, like Bangkok bank, you need to start before you're 60. 

As I said the T&Cs of the Insurance will be the same as any other Travel Insurance Policy you wil have to have been resident in the UK prior to taking the Insurance out.

If you make a claim and they will ask for Passport, if you have not lived in the UK for 6 months you are classed as non resident in their eyes

[fforest1]

1 hour ago, Peasandmash said:

The days when a poor, old, retired, single man could move to Thailand with nothing and live like a hobo King will be over just as marijuana is legalized.

A retired man of modest means enjoying his sunset years in Thailand is horrible.....We need to ship these older folks off to sunny acres retirement home where they belong.....Its just distasteful to see them strutting their stuff in Bamboo Bar when they are in their 70s..... Some are even past 80.....

 

But if these old guys are loaded well then they certainly deserve to enjoy their retirement any where they choose including Thailand.....

 

Hey Peasandmash is a persons only value in life based on how much money they have?

 

Edited December 27, 2018 by fforest1

[simon43]

Quote

 

It's only people who are sick who need such insurance...
 

 

 

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic with your comments.

 

When you are healthy is the correct time to take out this type of insurance, because you'll either be denied cover or asked to pay a high premium if you're already sick.

 

What about healthy expats being involved in serious accidents in Thailand?  You seem to have forgotten that one ????

 

By your logic, I shouldn't take out fire insurance on my house because it hasn't burnt down yet...

Edited December 27, 2018 by simon43

[Sealbash]

My point is that it is not possible for someone over a certain age to get insurance policy, whether single trip or multi for any period longer than 6 months originating in the UK. So I just tested online insureandgo. Age 68, one year policy Jan 1-Dec 31. No go.

Shengen visas require proof of insurance. By your logic, no one over 68 is allowed to be a tourist in the EU countries?


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[Sealbash]

How is this different from the insurance requirement for a Shengen visa to EU countries?


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[Mango Bob]

What the government should do if people need to have insurance then they offer it to them at a reasonable rate for any retiree that does not have insurance.  Of course, it would be through a government hospital for all inpatient and outpatient services.   You know someone in the system is going to make a lot of money off of this.

[NanLaew]

On 12/23/2018 at 11:04 PM, scorecard said:

Well what about all visas.

 

Maybe I'm missing a point but i'm wondering they are targeting 1 year O A visas.

 

Surely it's very possible visitors can find themselves in trouble with medical costs on any visa?

 

True. Maybe they are trialing the feasibility and sustainability of this frankly quite logical step by rolling it out on the small percentage of 'lifers' that enable their voluntary Thai incarceration via the O-A visa? Heaven forbid they foist it on the regular hoi poloi. Just look at the wailing and gnashing of teeth herein, mostly be people who don't even have a dog in the fight.

 

On 12/23/2018 at 11:20 PM, garyk said:

And you thought the 800K baht rule was the end of it!

Hogs are at the trough here folks, 800K was so easy, now the insurance company who really have the money will push this threw in no time. 

Banks and insurance are the two richest businesses around in Thailand. Just a matter of time now.

 

I can see a time where you will have to show immigration the 800K and the paid up insurance policy for and extension of stay. 

I thought the Crown Property Bureau, Charoen Pokphand and the owners of the Central conglomerate were the richest businesses in Thailand. But never mind if it doesn't fit your narrative, eh?

 

I consider that showing you have enough money to live a year healthily in Thailand AND the belt and braces of an insurance policy that kicks in when you have an accident or turn quite unhealthy is eminently sensible. It doesn't take a double bypass to wipe out that 800k 'insurance' overnight. It's so sensible that the really clever coffin dodgers in LOS already have BOTH taken care of and don't need prodding by Thai bureaucracy to get their doddery old ducks in a row. They weren't being particularly prescient either, just pragmatic and realistic.

 

Hogs at the trough? LOL.

Edited December 27, 2018 by NanLaew

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, Sealbash said:

Shengen visas require proof of insurance. By your logic, no one over 68 is allowed to be a tourist in the EU countries?
Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Please take the trouble to actually read the thread. Insurance is available for over 68 year olds. It is just not available for single trips exceeding a certain length of time. Got it?

[Dumbastheycome]

On 12/27/2018 at 5:21 PM, fforest1 said:

A retired man of modest means enjoying his sunset years in Thailand is horrible.....We need to ship these older folks off to sunny acres retirement home where they belong.....Its just distasteful to see them strutting their stuff in Bamboo Bar when they are in their 70s..... Some are even past 80.....

 

But if these old guys are loaded well then they certainly deserve to enjoy their retirement any where they choose including Thailand.....

 

Hey Peasandmash is a persons only value in life based on how much money they have?

 

Harsh !  But  honest  in a way. But Shipping off  is as applicable  to  young  upstarts who  think they have such cause  to clear the field is just as valid.

 

There are several issues involved in this  discussion. The primary one for the  long stay increasingly ageing is that Insurance for health becomes difficult mostly for  "health"  questions.

Being "loaded" does  not necessarily avoid that issue. Undeniably we  old  sods are approaching death!

At times  that means the need for  hospital treatments to offset impact for whatever the  cause.

Having  chosen to stay in Thailand as  non residents, non citizens (as the  vast majority are and do)  there seems to be an unrealistic  expectation that that  should provide the right to be provided  as a citizen! 

Why? Because  we  bring foreign exchange into the economy? "We " support Thailand? laughable! Get what  you  opted to pay  for  in a cheaper economy. Or  bail  out.

At  moments  of crisis  it is  not unusual for people to  forget the  reason they  are here  as  "expats'.

Did  we/they come to  help out poor Thailand? No !  Here  for  reason  various  but  not in the  best interest of Thailand as  such. In self interest ! For whatever reason.

And  who  can deny that in most places  of origin the fact is that  to receive other than  emergency  health  care for the  elderly means  being  put  on a  waiting  list until  death occurs anyway? !( Unless  in possession of  private insurance ! )(If it  suits  the  Insurer ! )

So at the end of the day if  you are old, sickly, and expect provision of  extraordinary  services  to prolong  your  life, pay one way or another.

 

[taiping]

On 12/24/2018 at 2:08 PM, Thaimarkz said:

Hi sqwakvfr -- you said "All foreigners who have settled in a country without a health insurance are stupid idiots."

Is that so? Ever heard of self-insuring? I keep significant funds (about 2-million Baht) in a separate "health" account, rather than pay the insurance company crooks. I have lived in Thailand for a looong time.

Also, please tell me how to obtain health (not accident) insurance in Thailand for the over 70s at a reasonable premium. Be specific (name of company and cost). I gave up BUPA Thailand when I was about 65 because the premiums became too expensive.

Hopefully (I did say hopefully) this will only apply to Non O-A visas obtained outside Thailand, not retirement extensions to a Non O visa obtained within Thailand. One lives in hope.

 

 

[Mapguy]

Well, I don't buy silly comments like those of sqwakkvfr either.  Yes, self insurance is an option by itself or in conjunction with some purchased insurance, such as low coverage options such as accident insurance, co-payments or higher deductibles, etc.  However, the Thai government is in a quandary as to how to handle foreigners who have been and apparently continue to be burdens on the Thai health care system even given the comparatively cheap cost of health care in Thailand (which cost is increasing: Care to price some of the fancy new equipment, such as MRI hardware, personnel and upkeep now deemed necessary). 

 

But for those coming from countries with national health care systems supported by a broad tax base, life can be complicated, most generally with advancing age and its various maladies!  Private insurance?  Generally never had it!  Does it pay off if citizens live out of country?  Not always for the "native" English speakers among us.  Other countries?  Check it out   For Americans abroad,  few can receive Medicare or Medicaid coverage except under special circumstances.  Again, a problem.  Many Westerners apparently game their national health systems by maintaining a false residential address in their home countries with broad national heath care systems!  Just ask around!

 

Here are some reasons why the government is concerned.

 

If you look at Chiang Mai alone, it is very clear that there have been quite a number of indigent or near-indigent foreigners (for example, people who stretch to keep 800k bhat in the bank).  Some consulates some years ago --- particularly the British and American consulates ---  launched an initiative to help such cases called LannaCareNet to deal with an increasing number of expats with serious medical problems but lacking the finances to handle with their problems.  You can Google it.  It is still active.  Maybe they can tell you how many people they have helped.

 

Take a look also at the fiasco a few years back when there was a false option provided by Chiang Mai for foreigners to enroll in the Thai national health ("30 bhat") system, a positive populist legacy of Thaksin.  Hospitals like Nakorn Ping and other community hospitals were flooded by foreigners (again most likely but not exclusively farang) with all sorts of untreated --- some very serious ---  maladies.  Some real medically-costly disaster cases.  A screeching halt was put to that situation when the Ministry of Public Health declared that  the Chiang Mai Province chief had misinterpreted a directive issued at the time about national system enrollment.

 

The 800k Thai bhat bank deposit is a modest Immigration requirement for sustaining a "reserve" fund for health care.  It can disappear in a hurry due to ongoing or major medical costs.  The promise of sufficient, available and transferable funds from investments or other income (such as rental income) from abroad, is being reconsidered.  Refashioning the program is an administrative quagmire other than for straight-forward government and private pension declarations.  The British, American, and Australian governments decided to get out of the affidavit business.  You can hardly blame them!  There was a lot of scamming going on.  The Thai government is certainly not thrilled to have to confirm such resources.

 

So, what's the answer?

 

One answer is, as Taiping has basically suggested above, to increase the size of the reserve requirement.  He does it privately.  Not a welcome option for all, particularly for example, considering the plummeting exchange British and Australian currencies!

 

Another approach is to provide insurance options for the otherwise uninsureable due to advanced age.  The government has certified three Thai companies to provide coverage in the new "10 year Long Stay" visa program.  Check it out.  Reasonable cost?  Well, try non-Thai health insurance premium costs at advancing ages.  Coverage provided for pre-existing conditions?  Check it out. Probably not a pleasant experience --- as in the USA for many people --- for anyone under whatever the official eligibility age might be.

 

So, what other options?  Some compromise plan provided by the Thai government may help some.  For example, charge all incoming foreigners, including uninsured tourists, a health insurance fee regardless of age upon entry.  Isn't this already the reality in some other countries?  Anyway, why not peg the fee high enough to subsidise a plan for long-stay foreigners.  And why not charge long stay foreigners the balance based on some sort of age-related scale.? Complicated!  For another sort of approach, doesn't the UK, for example, require some citizen to take financial responsibility for foreign visitors?  I can't see that one flying?!

 

All in all, some are most likely going to get left out whatever the plan.  And that is truly unfortunate for those, especially those suffering from exchange rate shock  who thought that Thailand was some sort of inexpensive Vahalla.  It is too bad that that has come to be too real for so many.  Some still live miserable unhealthy lives here without family, some are real burdens on their families or friends here,  some have been expatriated by rather heroic support of others and help from their own governments,  some have died unhappy deaths (including jumping off balconies) here unclaimed by the their home countries or their relatives or "friends."  Who to blame?  Thailand?  Home countries?  Relatives?  Themselves?  The party, unfortunately, has been and continues to be unfortunate for quite a few.  A sad reality of past years, this year or their future.  So "Unhappy" New Year.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2018 by Mapguy

[garyk]

The only thing I am trying to figure out is, what is next?

I know it is coming just can not figure out what it might be.

 

I'm thinking maybe chip implants or ankel braclet's, that is my bet.   haha

 

Edited December 29, 2018 by garyk

[Peasandmash]

The bad news is soon you're gonna need medical insurance to live here.

The good news is you can use the insurance to get the best damn medical marijuana available in SE Asia ????

Happy New Year!

Edited December 29, 2018 by Peasandmash

[nong38]

To get insurance in the UK one of the stipulations that must have been resident in the UK for the previous 3 or more commonly 6 months so anyone coming here the insurance and staying here is going to have a problem the following year, you may well take It out but should you try and claim there will be a problem.

Age is the other big problem, when you get past 60 things start to get complicated and the older you get the harder it becomes. I have seen policies here that go up to 74 and a few up to 85 but when you see the steep curve upwards its ridiculous. I know some companies you might have been with for a long time will often say that they will always insure you, until you see the premium they require.

Are the  insurance vultures circling looking to milk the silly old farangs even more? Makes you wonder.

The retirement visa financial requirements (800k) have been in position for over 10 years and it would not surprise me if they were to say that looking at the inflation figure over that period that from year XXXX this will increasing to XXXX, that I can understand but the insurance card would create a huge problem for many expats and also for the extended families they support, as usual the forward planning and understanding the knock on effects have not been thought through, just the cash up front scenario.

[Sheryl]

Well, I don't buy silly comments like those of sqwakkvfr either.  Yes, self insurance is an option by itself or in conjunction with some purchased insurance, such as low coverage options such as accident insurance, co-payments or higher deductibles, etc.  However, the Thai government is in a quandary as to how to handle foreigners who have been and apparently continue to be burdens on the Thai health care system even given the comparatively cheap cost of health care in Thailand (which cost is increasing: Care to price some of the fancy new equipment, such as MRI hardware, personnel and upkeep now deemed necessary). 

 

But for those coming from countries with national health care systems supported by a broad tax base, life can be complicated, most generally with advancing age and its various maladies!  Private insurance?  Generally never had it!  Does it pay off if citizens live out of country?  Not always for the "native" English speakers among us.  Other countries?  Check it out   For Americans abroad,  few can receive Medicare or Medicaid coverage except under special circumstances.  Again, a problem.  Many Westerners apparently game their national health systems by maintaining a false residential address in their home countries with broad national heath care systems!  Just ask around!

 

Here are some reasons why the government is concerned.

 

If you look at Chiang Mai alone, it is very clear that there have been quite a number of indigent or near-indigent foreigners (for example, people who stretch to keep 800k bhat in the bank).  Some consulates some years ago --- particularly the British and American consulates ---  launched an initiative to help such cases called LannaCareNet to deal with an increasing number of expats with serious medical problems but lacking the finances to handle with their problems.  You can Google it.  It is still active.  Maybe they can tell you how many people they have helped.

 

Take a look also at the fiasco a few years back when there was a false option provided by Chiang Mai for foreigners to enroll in the Thai national health ("30 bhat") system, a positive populist legacy of Thaksin.  Hospitals like Nakorn Ping and other community hospitals were flooded by foreigners (again most likely but not exclusively farang) with all sorts of untreated --- some very serious ---  maladies.  Some real medically-costly disaster cases.  A screeching halt was put to that situation when the Ministry of Public Health declared that  the Chiang Mai Province chief had misinterpreted a directive issued at the time about national system enrollment.

 

The 800k Thai bhat bank deposit is a modest Immigration requirement for sustaining a "reserve" fund for health care.  It can disappear in a hurry due to ongoing or major medical costs.  The promise of sufficient, available and transferable funds from investments or other income (such as rental income) from abroad, is being reconsidered.  Refashioning the program is an administrative quagmire other than for straight-forward government and private pension declarations.  The British, American, and Australian governments decided to get out of the affidavit business.  You can hardly blame them!  There was a lot of scamming going on.  The Thai government is certainly not thrilled to have to confirm such resources.

 

So, what's the answer?

 

One answer is, as Taiping has basically suggested above, to increase the size of the reserve requirement.  He does it privately.  Not a welcome option for all, particularly for example, considering the plummeting exchange British and Australian currencies!

 

Another approach is to provide insurance options for the otherwise uninsureable due to advanced age.  The government has certified three Thai companies to provide coverage in the new "10 year Long Stay" visa program.  Check it out.  Reasonable cost?  Well, try non-Thai health insurance premium costs at advancing ages.  Coverage provided for pre-existing conditions?  Check it out. Probably not a pleasant experience --- as in the USA for many people --- for anyone under whatever the official eligibility age might be.

 

So, what other options?  Some compromise plan provided by the Thai government may help some.  For example, charge all incoming foreigners, including uninsured tourists, a health insurance fee regardless of age upon entry.  Isn't this already the reality in some other countries?  Anyway, why not peg the fee high enough to subsidise a plan for long-stay foreigners.  And why not charge long stay foreigners the balance based on some sort of age-related scale.? Complicated!  For another sort of approach, doesn't the UK, for example, require some citizen to take financial responsibility for foreign visitors?  I can't see that one flying?!

 

All in all, some are most likely going to get left out whatever the plan.  And that is truly unfortunate for those, especially those suffering from exchange rate shock  who thought that Thailand was some sort of inexpensive Vahalla.  It is too bad that that has come to be too real for so many.  Some still live miserable unhealthy lives here without family, some are real burdens on their families or friends here,  some have been expatriated by rather heroic support of others and help from their own governments,  some have died unhappy deaths (including jumping off balconies) here unclaimed by the their home countries or their relatives or "friends."  Who to blame?  Thailand?  Home countries?  Relatives?  Themselves?  The party, unfortunately, has been and continues to be unfortunate for quite a few.  A sad reality of past years, this year or their future.  So "Unhappy" New Year.

 

 

The 800k requirement is not a reserve nor is it expected to cover medical costs. It is for general living expenses and one is expected to draw down on it steadily over the year for that purpose.

 

It will be adequate to encompass outpatient medical and dental care for most people but certainly not cover major medical costs. Depending on one's lifestyle, age and whether one is supporting any dependents, it may also be adequate to purchase health insurance.

 

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